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Debate Thread - anything and everything: Topic: Shoulda Coulda Woulda

  • Avatar of Jimbob2008

    Jimbob2008

    [61]May 13, 2008
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    I'm just going to throw this out there. I'm sure someone will respond. I've been thinking and speaking out lately on the "romance" of Lucas and Peyton and how I just don't buy it as a true romance or relationship other than a deep friendship.

    This "romance", which I've stated on various threads (and don't feel like hunting through at the moment), is lacking serious evidence for all the love that claims to be be there. If look at all the saving..that could be romantic yes. but in their cases, none of the rescues have been romantic and deep and meaningful. I will say that in season one, when they opened up to each other and also the "you are not them" and "your art matters" scenes were deep things that could have made it a romantic relationship. But there hasn't been anything like that for over 3 seasons. I dont know how they can say that they have this great love, when the only things shown were from season 1. It can't carry a whole show.

    Also, and I guess this attaches to that. How can this be a great love and romance when things ruin it so simply. Sure love and life is hard, but noone should go through that many things. Its a TV show, it shouldn't be a back and forth game of chase for two characters to be together. I feel its a ratings game and made mostly for keeping people into the show, "good television". How can a love and romance be meant to be and such true love when words like "sometime" can completely ruin the relationship, wheres the communication? Peyton didnt have much time as an intern yes, but still...And how can "i hate yous" flow so easily when they're supposed to have this deep seated love. I just cannot buy them as a couple.
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  • Avatar of huh920

    huh920

    [62]May 13, 2008
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    JimBob I completely agree with everything you said. LP's relationship is nothing but a chase. I dont really understand how it can be percieved as such a strong romance. The phrases "epic" and "meant to be" does not fit LP at all. Season 4 when they were together, they were cute. I however did not see any difference between the LP and BL. Both relationships seemed in love. One was not stronger than the other. I think it is just how you view the couples.

    I also believe the writes are continuing with this horrible love triangle/square because of the fanbases. I would much rather see Lucas in a relationship having problems than him not knowing who he wants to be with for the billionth time. The drama is is lost from the show with the triangle because it has already been done before.
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    cwprincss

    [63]May 13, 2008
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    I think Leyton are first and foremost friends. I have said in various message boards also that I think of them like siblings, not lovers. I don't understand where everyone gets all this history. Sure they had a short fling in season one, but his heart ultimately led him back to Brooke who he truly loved. Season 2 was all about Brucas also. Season three was Brucas with Peyton pining over Jake for majority of that time. Leyton were there for each other as friends, best friends, like Haley and Lucas used to be. I feel like people are trying to shove them down everyone' throats to make them the "it" couple when really they aren't. I am sure Lucas loves Peyton, but not in the way that is romantic. I think if Jake came back, Peyton would realize just how much she has really been chasing Lucas because he was her comfort zone and the only one there to take care of her. I liked when Peyton was strong and independent with Jake. She is like a little lost puppy now who is completely dependent on someone taking care of her!!

    I think LL have more chemistry because it was innocent. Lucas was right last night when he said "I hate you and you ruined my life" to Peyton. I think it's been a long time coming. Peyton needs to grow up and quit going after Lucas whenever it's convenient for her. All together, they weren't even together as long as Brucas or Jeyton, so how can they be this "epic" love story. Give me a Break!!!! They've been together sexually only one time for Pete's sake on prom night no less!! How special is that!! Lucas fought for Lindsey and Brooke, never for Peyton...what does that tell you. She still hasn't asked about Lucas' heart condition considering she knows that Dan is dying from the same heart condition.

    Now that October Road is cancelled, I think Jeyton will reunite, rightfully so, and Brucas will end up together...the way it should be! Or Lucas will end up going back to Lindsey in the end and Brooke will be with someone else...who knows!

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  • Avatar of huh920

    huh920

    [64]May 13, 2008
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    Wow CW Princes I would not go that far about LP. Why do you think they are like siblings? Because they both have blonde hair? That is not really a great reason to say they are like siblings. They have a connection but defintely not a siblins connection

    I am sure they were sexually involved more than that one time afer prom since they were together a while after graduation.(6 months to a year not sure) I really did not like LL. I felt there was no point but to make another triangle or square situation. I do LOVE Lindsey without Lucas. I liked her character. Also I dont want Jake back. What would be is purpose? Jake needs to learn from the past and no that Peyton will never love him as much as Lucas. He is just going to get his heart broken again.

    I am a Brucas fan but I wont say never saw anything between Peyton and Lucas. It was just a different kind of relationship because Peyton and Brooke are very different.
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    cwprincss

    [65]May 13, 2008
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    The reason I say they are like brother and sister is because of how strong the friendship is. They are too much alike. Most successful couples are opposites....like the saying goes, opposites attract. The connection they have had translated into a friends with benefit thing when they needed the companionship. Sure Brooke and Peyton are different, but the chemistry was always there with Brucas; whereas with Peyton, it seemed forced...Just my opinion.
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  • Avatar of huh920

    huh920

    [66]May 13, 2008
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    I think their strong friendship adds to their relationship. When you are friends with someone especially good friends you have this bond and a great connection. It helps you understand what they are going through because you know them so well. That is why so many best friends fall in love.

    Also I wouldnt say Peyton and Lucas are so much alike. They are both broody. I mean I think all the characters on the show are very different. Also about the chemistry I agree with you on that. Brucas IMO has much better chemistry than Leyton. I would not say it LP's chemistry is forced, just maybe not as strong as Brucas's.
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    Jimbob2008

    [67]May 13, 2008
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    cwprincss wrote:

    I think Leyton are first and foremost friends. I have said in various message boards also that I think of them like siblings, not lovers. I don't understand where everyone gets all this history. Sure they had a short fling in season one, but his heart ultimately led him back to Brooke who he truly loved. Season 2 was all about Brucas also. Season three was Brucas with Peyton pining over Jake for majority of that time. Leyton were there for each other as friends, best friends, like Haley and Lucas used to be. I feel like people are trying to shove them down everyone' throats to make them the "it" couple when really they aren't. I am sure Lucas loves Peyton, but not in the way that is romantic. I think if Jake came back, Peyton would realize just how much she has really been chasing Lucas because he was her comfort zone and the only one there to take care of her. I liked when Peyton was strong and independent with Jake. She is like a little lost puppy now who is completely dependent on someone taking care of her!!

    I think LL have more chemistry because it was innocent. Lucas was right last night when he said "I hate you and you ruined my life" to Peyton. I think it's been a long time coming. Peyton needs to grow up and quit going after Lucas whenever it's convenient for her. All together, they weren't even together as long as Brucas or Jeyton, so how can they be this "epic" love story. Give me a Break!!!! They've been together sexually only one time for Pete's sake on prom night no less!! How special is that!! Lucas fought for Lindsey and Brooke, never for Peyton...what does that tell you. She still hasn't asked about Lucas' heart condition considering she knows that Dan is dying from the same heart condition.

    Now that October Road is cancelled, I think Jeyton will reunite, rightfully so, and Brucas will end up together...the way it should be! Or Lucas will end up going back to Lindsey in the end and Brooke will be with someone else...who knows!



    my god I COMPLETELY agree. Its so refreshing to see more people who see things the way I do. They do feel very forced together and forced down people's throats. I see a friendship, not an epic romance or even a romance at all
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  • Avatar of Jimbob2008

    Jimbob2008

    [68]May 13, 2008
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    cwprincss wrote:
    with Peyton, it seemed forced...Just my opinion.


    agree
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    Jimbob2008

    [69]May 13, 2008
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    [QUOTE="huh920"]I think their strong friendship adds to their relationship. When you are friends with someone especially good friends you have this bond and a great connection. It helps you understand what they are going through because you know them so well. That is why so many best friends fall in love.

    Also I wouldnt say Peyton and Lucas are so much alike. They are both broody. I mean I think all the characters on the show are very different. Also about the chemistry I agree with you on that. Brucas IMO has much better chemistry than Leyton. I would not say it LP's chemistry is forced, just maybe not as strong as Brucas's.[/QUOTE

    I just think their "chemistry" is not a romanticc one. a deep friendship one that allows them to be comfortable sharing things. a romantic chemistry nonexistant. when they do have to be romantic it seems soo overly done and fforced.
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    huh920

    [70]May 13, 2008
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    Jimbob2008 wrote:
    I just think their "chemistry" is not a romanticc one. a deep friendship one that allows them to be comfortable sharing things. a romantic chemistry nonexistant. when they do have to be romantic it seems soo overly done and fforced.


    Why dont you feel their chemistry is romantic? Every since Lucas met Peyton he was instantly attracted to her. I think it is a little silly to think just because two people have a strong friendship they have to seem like siblings. When you are in a relationship you need to be friends with your partner. Season 4 when they were together they did not seemed forced or over done IMO. I really saw how much they loved each other.( I hated Lucas's realization of his feelings for Peyton, That I can agree was forced.)
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    Jimbob2008

    [71]May 13, 2008
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    huh920 wrote:
    Jimbob2008 wrote:
    I just think their "chemistry" is not a romanticc one. a deep friendship one that allows them to be comfortable sharing things. a romantic chemistry nonexistant. when they do have to be romantic it seems soo overly done and fforced.


    Why dont you feel their chemistry is romantic? Every since Lucas met Peyton he was instantly attracted to her. I think it is a little silly to think just because two people have a strong friendship they have to seem like siblings. When you are in a relationship you need to be friends with your partner. Season 4 when they were together they did not seemed forced or over done IMO. I really saw how much they loved each other.( I hated Lucas's realization of his feelings for Peyton, That I can agree was forced.)


    I feel that Lucas has always been crushed out on her. Not a real true deep love. He was crushing on her atleast 2 years before season 1, when they were a freshman. Instant attraction, lust, crushings are not real love. and I dont see it as romance, I think it is much more friend vibe, i always feel that friend vibe from them
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  • Avatar of huh920

    huh920

    [72]May 13, 2008
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    Jimbob2008 wrote:
    I feel that Lucas has always been crushed out on her. Not a real true deep love. He was crushing on her atleast 2 years before season 1, when they were a freshman. Instant attraction, lust, crushings are not real love. and I dont see it as romance, I think it is much more friend vibe, i always feel that friend vibe from them


    I agree with you about the crusing thing but in season 4 he seemed really in love. High school love just like him and Brooke. Both are not big "epic" loves. I want Lucas to end up with one of the girls from the main 5 but under the right conditions.
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    cwprincss

    [73]May 13, 2008
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    Season 4 was a joke. After being with Brooke off and on for three years, he all of a sudden has this realization that Peyton is "the one"??? Come on, that was a complete insult to the history of Brucas. Maybe if it would have been approached differently, it would have been better. There was no buildup at all to them all of a sudden being totally in love...just a few episodes before, he was still pining over Brooke. They have completely re-written the history of the entire show to accommodate Leyton.
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  • Avatar of huh920

    huh920

    [75]May 13, 2008
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    cwprincss wrote:
    Season 4 was a joke. After being with Brooke off and on for three years, he all of a sudden has this realization that Peyton is "the one"??? Come on, that was a complete insult to the history of Brucas. Maybe if it would have been approached differently, it would have been better. There was no buildup at all to them all of a sudden being totally in love...just a few episodes before, he was still pining over Brooke. They have completely re-written the history of the entire show to accommodate Leyton.

    It was not three years it was like one year. The problem had was there was no buildup on Lucas's end. It was vey clear what Peyton felt for Lucas. It was just odd to me he realized his love for Peyton out of nowhere. They did not completely rewrite the show for Leyton because in the beginning of the show it was meant to be LP. Brooke was not even suppose to become the big character she is now. The B/L/P triangle just added a great twist to the show.

    lilacouture Thank you I imagine our opinions would differ because you are a Leyton fan and I am a Brucas fan. Oh yeah I wouldnt say that someone's opinions are stupid. It just isnt very nice and CWprincss could get offended.

    Edited on 05/13/2008 7:20pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    PLforever

    [76]May 13, 2008
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    lilacouture wrote:
    cwprincss wrote:
    Season 4 was a joke. After being with Brooke off and on for three years, he all of a sudden has this realization that Peyton is "the one"??? Come on, that was a complete insult to the history of Brucas. Maybe if it would have been approached differently, it would have been better. There was no buildup at all to them all of a sudden being totally in love...just a few episodes before, he was still pining over Brooke. They have completely re-written the history of the entire show to accommodate Leyton.

    ummm okay bud its not 3 "years", its 3 seasons. its that he had this infatuation with PEYTON for 3 years, then when he was hurt by her, went to brooke (season 1). he fully admitted it too, WATCH the show, thanks. then one day out of the blue in season 2 he suddenly decides he wants brooke. season 2 and season 3 together make ONE year. get your facts straight. then he had one of those infamous moments on clarity that he loved peyton all along in 409 & that was the end of his feelings for brooke. & huh920 you are a great debater though i disagree on some parts lol. cwprince your arguments are so stupid, all are opinions, you can't just write your own history for your shipping boy.


    Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
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    Jimbob2008

    [77]May 13, 2008
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    cwprincss wrote:
    Season 4 was a joke. After being with Brooke off and on for three years, he all of a sudden has this realization that Peyton is "the one"??? Come on, that was a complete insult to the history of Brucas. Maybe if it would have been approached differently, it would have been better. There was no buildup at all to them all of a sudden being totally in love...just a few episodes before, he was still pining over Brooke. They have completely re-written the history of the entire show to accommodate Leyton.


    i agree, no build up at all. it just seems sooo forced sometimes, that they just spring things on the show to make Leyton work. I'm sure this "i hate you" instead of being a justifiable response, is just more words they can make Lucas eat while apologizing to make them "stronger". If it was a great romance, it wouldnt have been said at all.
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    Jimbob2008

    [78]May 13, 2008
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    PLforever wrote:
    lilacouture wrote:
    cwprincss wrote:
    Season 4 was a joke. After being with Brooke off and on for three years, he all of a sudden has this realization that Peyton is "the one"??? Come on, that was a complete insult to the history of Brucas. Maybe if it would have been approached differently, it would have been better. There was no buildup at all to them all of a sudden being totally in love...just a few episodes before, he was still pining over Brooke. They have completely re-written the history of the entire show to accommodate Leyton.
    ummm okay bud its not 3 "years", its 3 seasons. its that he had this infatuation with PEYTON for 3 years, then when he was hurt by her, went to brooke (season 1). he fully admitted it too, WATCH the show, thanks. then one day out of the blue in season 2 he suddenly decides he wants brooke. season 2 and season 3 together make ONE year. get your facts straight. then he had one of those infamous moments on clarity that he loved peyton all along in 409 & that was the end of his feelings for brooke. & huh920 you are a great debater though i disagree on some parts lol. cwprince your arguments are so stupid, all are opinions, you can't just write your own history for your shipping boy.
    Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
    uh..i'm pretty sure they meant three seasons, they know the show, don't devalue their argument based on that one fact. you're getting mighty snappy in your response lilacouture, "you're really into this!" . Anyway, the last sentence of your reply isn't written clearly so I can't really respond on that, but you're level 5, you should know better than to state in anyway someones debate as stupid. anyway. We know it makes up one year, but look at the freaking situation, its stretched out to be this long drawn out growing experience, and even if it was a short amount of time, lets say a year and a half, he still jumped pretty quickly from brooke being the one, to peyton being the great love of his life. That is the point, huh920 was trying to make
    Edited on 05/13/2008 7:51pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of huh920

    huh920

    [79]May 13, 2008
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    Jimbob2008 wrote:
    i agree, no build up at all. it just seems sooo forced sometimes, that they just spring things on the show to make Leyton work. I'm sure this "i hate you" instead of being a justifiable response, is just more words they can make Lucas eat while apologizing to make them "stronger". If it was a great romance, it wouldnt have been said at all.


    Havent you heard the saying there is a thin line between love and hate. Lucas is obviously broken up about Lindsey and said something stupid. He would NEVER say that to her sober. I am not going to hold this IHY against Lucas like some people hold that Chris and Haley kiss against her. One mistake should not be held over someone's head the rest of their lives. Just because Lucas said I hate you to Peyton does not make their love any less.
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    Jimbob2008

    [80]May 13, 2008
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    huh920 wrote:
    Jimbob2008 wrote:
    i agree, no build up at all. it just seems sooo forced sometimes, that they just spring things on the show to make Leyton work. I'm sure this "i hate you" instead of being a justifiable response, is just more words they can make Lucas eat while apologizing to make them "stronger". If it was a great romance, it wouldnt have been said at all.
    Havent you heard the saying there is a thin line between love and hate. Lucas is obviously broken up about Lindsey and said something stupid. He would NEVER say that to her sober. I am not going to hold this IHY against Lucas like some people hold that Chris and Haley kiss against her. One mistake should not be held over someone's head the rest of their lives. Just because Lucas said I hate you to Peyton does not make their love any less.

    of course he said it with alcohol in his system so his judgment is bad. but tara, in vino veritas, in wine there is truth. a drunk heart doesnt lie...he may have normally never said anything like that while sober or even feel that much into it, but regardless, if you have this great romance, that just is not something that would come out, even when you are angry. I've been in plenty of fights with my loved one and you just do not say that, drunk or not. I'm not saying that is the main reason they dont love each other or anything like that, its merely another example of how I don't believe they are a strong romantic couple.

    Edited on 05/13/2008 8:01pm
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