Hey everyone, I am first going to write about which episode and character my idea came from, and why, than the follow up episode, and finally the story arc that develops from it.

The Origin episode:


Last season there was the all Finch episode where he went undercover as a high school math substitute teacher "2-Pi-R" There the POI was a teenage boy named Caleb, who, actually to Finch's surprise turns out to be a genius in math and computers equal, perhaps more than him, and Finch is THE best in the world. At the end Finch left Caleb with a way to contact him if he needed anything, and basically told him that he is the legendary "Hacker who got away"

I think 2_Pi-R is one of the best episodes of POI, and I have been hoping they would bring back Caleb. I'd just llike to say that I think 2_Pi-R is one of the best episodes of the entire series!, We had seen Finch go into to the field many times by than, and this wasn't his first solo mission, Season 1 had the stalker in the apartment building, Reese was injured at the time but he was still watching out for Finch. In "2-Pi-R" while he does team up with Fusco, which I loved, but as much as Fusco did help his use of their surveillance is limited and he isn't a former covert black ops agent, so Finch was for the most part truly on his own. Oh and just for the hell of it, my idea for the name of a spin off "The Adventures of Finch and Fusco!" lol. Anyway it;s usually Reese who ends up facing the perpetrator, and the random highly trained killer, but this episode Finch faced something more dangerous and deadly than any foe Reese fought, a room full of high school students, as a substitute! lol Bu than we got that great speech about Pi, which actually made me interested in Math for a little while! lol However the best part was how Finch "stalks" this kid, is elated when he discovers that Caleb solved that super complex math problem. Only to be truly disapointed and angry at Caleb and himself when he thinks Caleb is the mastermind of the local drug dealers, Finch was so crushed for believing in Caleb, but in classic POI fashion nothing is ever what it seems. The truth in the end is much more tragic, as Finch discovered that Caleb blames himself for the death of his brother, and it being a Finch episode it's an ending without violence and yet still full of suspense and emotion as any of the action Reese oriented endings.

The Follow up episode:

Ok so in a new episode, the nameless government Machine conspirators learn of and approach Caleb under the guise of being recruiters for the CIA. They tell him they want to offer him a job, serve his country and all that, by creating a program he thinks is for good, but is really about a way for them to control the machine and beating the "I want to control the Machine" contenders Reese/Finch, nameles
government, That other group from the end of last season run by the old British guy, gotta be one or two more.

Anyway eventually Caleb figures it out, NGC threaten his family, yes I'm fully aware this type of thing has been done before but what hasn't? Reese and Finch arrive to save him, and of course Caleb being the next Finch finds out about The Machine, and therein lies what comes next.

The aftermath/arc:

After the rescue and Caleb knowing about The Machine Finch decides to put Caleb into hiding, wanting to send him away. However Caleb is angry about what happened and Finch recalls that did horrible things out of anger while justifying it, and realizes that Caleb is heading down the ame path. So not wanting the sins of his past to happen to Caleb he decides to keep him around and be a mentor. That would give him a way to be a reccuring character like Leon, assisting Finch and eventually helping out in cases. This would also be an interesting way to have Root be a part of this arc as she is crazy enough to feel that Caleb doesn't deserve to know Finch's secrets about the machine, only she does. And that means by her logic, she wants to kidnap, torture the info out of him and than kill him, It would also be a way to have someone else who,technically wise,could be a match for Root should Finch not be able to do anything. As I said it feels like this season could be called "The Machine War" or another clever name suggested by Syrinx2 could be "Rage Against The Machine", Thanks! Anyway as great as Finch is, sometimes its good to have assets. Although I would want him to be a reccuring character, since people have been started an all out hate campaign against a certain newly made regular.

So tell me would you guys want something like that story arc? Or at least have Caleb come back in some capacity?


Comments (18)
Submit
Sort: Latest | Popular
I alos hope we get a Caleb episde this season, it could ber part of the larger arc.

But you know that plots that have been suggested to writers never get filmed because of the risc for the writers of getting sued for stealing the plot idea.
Reply
Flag
I'm not exactly sure how that's possibe whether it's this site, youtube or whatever public forum I don't know if that makes sense to me, no offense. I mean if I were to post my suggestion for an episode/arc which people often do, and than later on the exact things happen, that I could sue them? I mean how could I prove that even though i posted earlier what I wanted to happen, and it does, how could I prove that the writers didn't have that planned all along? And I do thik that some writers/producers DO actually listen to fans suggestions and as I said I'm sure I'm not the only came up with Caleb thing so I don't know
Reply
Flag
I understand what you mean, there might be some difference in general publication or specific ideas. I am a fan of J. Michael Straczinsky, he sometimes refers to it like in a tweet discussion a few days ago.


Reply
Flag
Ok first I'm happy that yo are another Farscape fan,
Second, good call, I was born in America, but lived in England until around the late 90's, hence the DoctorWho name! lol I moved back around 99, i know cuz it was shortly before Farscape began. When i moved back here to new York I hadn't even known the existance of the sci fi channel, and was hooked on FS, I was thinking, have you noticed that on the sci fi channel the only show to ever finish on it's own planned terms was Battlestar Galactica, every other show was either canceled, or forced to end earlier and rushed like Eureka and Sanctuary. The next on the chopping block is WH13 which is only getting 6 more episodes when it was planned for more. you will know the signs now of the ax when they make a season split into two parts, Eureka S4, WH13 also S4. Thankfully Haven's now airing season 4 is the usual 13, and if you watch that series it seems like one more season should do it. Being Human's upcoming season 4 is also 13. Defiance's premiere season was 13, but i feel like that will be canceled early. I am so pissed about "Alphas" Season 1 was good, 2 was EPIC!
Ok about B5, I believe I said did not watch other than a few episodes at the time of it's airing, which I don't recall when, but than long forgot about it. I only actually watched the entire series two years ago, and I should have made it clear that was the timeline I was referring to about the CG, but if I had watched it as a kid than yes I would have agreed that the cg was as good as it's time it was on.
Ok about ST:TNG when I refferred to Q, and Data and "Lore" as arcs, yes I see your point about Q not being serialized, but more a reccuring character/villain, whereas Data's story was a little more serialized as Data's first journey to discover his origins, than his conflict with "Lore" and numerous attempts to make peace with him when Lore acted like he needed to be better than Data by first having the emotions, but emotions or not Data always defeated him, same with Picard and But despite that those could be referred to as story arcs, but also at the time I don't think the term story arc existed, i'm not sure, also I never said ST:TNG had an overall arc, it was DS9
As for the X Files when I said "CSM" was equivalent to Q, I meant as the main antagonists for Picard and Mulder and Scully. But more than that CSM WAS also the main antagonist, and that is the only equivalent I meant, there were revisited story lines as you said, but TXF did start the "Mythology" term, which is the MAIN ARC of a series, and CSM was not just a revisited villain but a central part of the mythology.
What confuses me is that u say that u think DS9 had no overall arc in it? So the Dominion war that was first introduced at the end of season 2 and ran throughout to the end of the series wasn't an overall arc? you sure u aren't thinking of Voyager?
More +
Reply
Flag
We don't get the 'real' SyFy over here, I live in the Netherlands, we have a SyFy channel that gives us reruns and rereruns. I also was pissed of that 'Alphas' wasn't renewed. Who survived and why? In case of Eureka I was hapy they gave it another hald season to wrap it up. WH13 I'm half a season behind, so I still have to catch up.

I agree on the Dominion being an arc. For me an arc is something the writers have thought out before. It is planned, little hints are given in episodes before the real thing starts. That happened with the Dominion.

With TXF I still think it's not an arc. It's atheme they used to write episdes around sometimes and almost nothing moved forward in those episodes. Only in the last one there was a reveal. The only real 'maybe' arc I remember is that with his sister.
Flag
Yes I remember Babylon 5 being on as a kid, but at the time I couldn't appreciate it's bad cg and special effects, or the concept of the "Space Opera" I'm 32 now so really the only sci fi I had watched as a kid as far as space travel goes was watching random episodes of Star Trek: TNG and than The X Files. Now both TNG and TXF while one being a future space travel, and the other a sci fi/horror precedural in the present, both shows worked the same way with the majority of episodes being stand alone stories, and also story arc episodes, with reccuring villains, later named "Mythology" on TXF that would be one or two episodes a year per arc/mythology. ST had "Q" who was the primary antagonist, an all powerful being who showed up to fuck with Picard and the crew and if those
who remember was the one who told "The Borg" about the location of The Federation and our galaxy. TXF's "Cigarette Smoking man" while all powerful in a different way, money and
power and always one step ahead of everyone. Who showed up to not only fuck with Mulder and Scully, but on ocassion tried to kill them. He was also the leader of "The Syndicate" the group of powerful and rich people aware of the coming invasion and the architects of the conspiracy to cover up the Truth and save themselves by allying with the aliens. There was also personal character story arcs, on ST like Data's origin, and his psychotic double. Worf's crap from his people for being in Star Fleet etc.. And on TXF there was also Mulder's search for his sister, the conflict with Krycheck, Scully's mysterious disease, The Lone Gunman, etc..

It wasn't really til actually Deep Space Nine that I saw science fiction become more serialized, in fact a series long arc along with the other usual character arcs and villains. by the last 2 seasons there was more serialized episodes than stand alone, and even the stand alones had something to do with the main arc. It was around DS9's time that Babylon 5 started but I remember having no idea what was going on having not started from the beginning.

But than something a sci fi show came along that was both somewhat like other space shows, and at the same time unlike any other one ever made. I give credit to DS9 and Babylon 5 making way for the space opera, but the best IMO and my ALL time favorite show is also one most people except die hard sci fi fans haven't heard of called "Farscape" which ran on the sci fi channel from 99-03 for four seasons, and at the end of S4 it said it was the series finale, when in fact the series was planned to be a total of 5 seasons all together and with just ONE more season it was canceled. It satrted out in S1 like most sci fi or genre shows, stand alone episodes introducing the universe of the show, and its towards the end of the first season when the real storyline starts and thus became more and more serialized, until S4 ended like most sci fi shows end their seasons on a cliffhanger! Thankfully a few years later it became on of the first online fan campaign to bring it back for a mini series to wrap it up.

The creator of the show is Rockne 'O Bannon, a writer producer from Australia who has now created the new sci fi series "Defiance" and also is a writer/producer now for "Revolution" but Farscape which is all available on dvd and blu ray is something I HIGHLY recommend every sci fi fan to check out, if the first few eps don't grab u give it a chance, I even got non sci fi fan friends to watch it and by the 5th or 6th or maybe even the first u will be hooked
More +
Reply
Flag

Without trying to get into a bit of a discussion with you, let me try to clear some things up.

But first, let me completely agree with you on Farscape. It is an excellent series and I've got a copy here at home. I enjoyed it very much.

Now back to BS5. It was the first television show to use computer graphics, so there was no comparison possible. It was beautiful for that moment in time. Obviously the CGI isn't that good for this moment in time, that's why there are no bluray DVD's available. JMS keeps on pointing out that it is to costly for WB to render it again.

B5 also was the first tv-series (at all) that gave us an arc that was longer than a few episodes. The original arc was 5 years long, but when JMS thought after season three that he would only get one extra season, he eventually finished his arc in four seasons. When he got his fifth season he had to extend the arc.

ST:TNG must have been from before your time as you were a kid when B% started. But there always have been reruns. F.i. season 1 started on Belgium tv a few weeks ago. Q was never part of any arc, he just visited in standalone episodes and for Data, I do not believe there was an arc written beforehand. They must made it up every season and looking back, one might say that there is personal growth for him. I wouldn't call it an arc. TXF could be considered to have kind of an arc, themes that came back in a few episodes every season. And yes, I was a big fan of both series also. Cigarette smoking man was the same as Q, he just fulfilled his role in opposing Mulder and Scully and thus appearing in episodes.

I also have DS9 here on DVD, so you must believe me that I really like that series. But I have never found any long arc in it. A few episodes maybe, but not something over a season. And, btw, DS9 en B5 started a few weeks apart on television, but you might be English and I'm not sure when they were broadcasted in England.

There is also a story of DS9 vs B5. For years, speculation has existed that Paramount stole aspects of B5 for the premise of DS9, owing to the fact that B5 was pitched to Paramount (who gave us DS9) before being picked up by Warner Bros. JMS has sai up to now that the producers of DS:9 probably didn't know, but the bosses might have pushed them in certain directions in the beginning.

More +
Flag
First off I am a fan of JMS, good to see another fan or at least someone who has heard of Babylon 5.
Second: There's going to be a reboot?
Third: JMS response to that person lol
Reply
Flag
I've seen B5 a few times, on tv as well as DVD. Fantastic.

And no, there are no plans for a reboot. WB own the rights and are doing nothing with it. As I remember, a few years ago they talked about a reboot but JMS ended it when he didn't get the freedom he wanted. He only owns the right for a feature film and needs somewhere above > 100mln to do so (he sais in replies to people suggesting an Kickstarter idea in line with Veronica Mars).

His reply is good, but if you follow him on Twitter (and I do, although I do not have a twitter account myself, but he gives good suggestions, insights and information), you'll know he was really pissed of. He meant what he said. He's very seldom humerous.
Flag
It would work (I also like the idea of bringing the young vet and his girlfriend back as sort of a low rent version of Robin Hood that met Finch and they helped them get money to actual war vets). I actually vaguely like the idea of setting up a whole younger set of people that may turn to Finch/Reese (like Gen last week). The idea that she and Caleb are targeted by the government (especially that lady we haven't seen yet) to maybe be a team that retakes control of the Machine, and both kids contact their respective patrons (Caleb, Finch and Gen, Shaw) to ask for their advice and that becomes the big bad they are fighting either this season or the next. Heck, this season, I am not sure what the overarching journey of this season is yet.
Reply
Flag
I think its would great story/arc, but possibly bring some complications for the future of the show. We already got too much recurring characters and even some (like Shaw and Fusco) who are having hard time to fit into overall POI Universe. Adding another potential character will make it hard for others to shine and show would become boring.

I think writers chose path of making machine more sentient, like human, because as we see from latest episodes, machine is having hard times to figuring out potential outcomes of peoples actions (Root related episodes). Maybe even show duplicity of the Machine by giving admin access to Root. Sounds crazy, who knows, maybe the Final or Felina episode would be turning off the machine!!! What you all think?
S
Reply
Flag
Well first Shaw and Fusco are not reccuring but actually regulars. What people are saying about Shaw is that in fact she is being fit in to POI too much and taking over the show, I disagree, while sure I think there has been alot of focus on her which and having her be the action and stuff more than Reese, but that's character development.

I mean at the very beginning of S1 we were given the intro of Reese and Finch as the focus, than once Carter started hunting them and Fusco was blackmailed at first the shift changed to them as they needed character development for several episodes. I mean it wasn't until just past the first half of the season until Fusco started his redemption, and Carter realized that Reese and Finch aren't criminals and works with them.

From the beginning we have seen Shaw who went through similar betrayal as Reese, which just happened the previous year, and people complain that she's robotic and angry. Well to that I say, how do you think Reese was when it first happened to him? and look where he ended up before Finch found him, but by than time had past for him, but for Shaw it's still a scab and for now they are slowly but surely humanizing her, having her learn to trust people again and let her gaurd down.

Now as for Fusco for some reason he has slowly but surely has had his role lessened and lessened to the point he IS a Reccuring character, but that was happening before Shaw so it's not her. Honestly this is the only real thing about the show that's pissing me off, one of if not the main theme of POI is Redemption, and I loved seeing Fusco stand up and fight against HR, having been exposed to Reese, he really wanted to be a real cop, the good cop he was before. One of my fav scenes was Fusco in those woods at night in S1, when the HR guy is taking him there to kill him. He tells FUsco to get on his knees to be executed, and Fusco so calm serene maybe, is ready to die and says something like "Well I at least got to do some good, to let my son know his father wasn't a complete scumbag. But now Fusco is just hanging around the station on the phone and just being asked to do research or surveillance or something, which he of course always does. As I said my idea I loved that it was Finch and Fusco teaming up in that Caleb episode, He was really helping Finch with surveillance and stuff but alot of stuff happened off screen like him arresting those drug dealers who were after Caleb, Fusco tells Finch in passing he took care of it.

Anyway about Caleb if they had him be a reccuring character like Zoe and Leon, that would certainly not take away anything. I would love another episode like the one Reese, Finch , Leon, worked together in the Ocean's Eleven type episode last season. this time Caleb could help. I liked that they made the girl's night out case, the Zoe, Carter, Shaw episode this season, and would love to see more of those three team up this season
More +
Reply
Flag
Yes, and yes! Cool story idea. And where has Leon been this season?
Reply
Flag
Hi Doc!

An interesting arc for Caleb and the Rage Against The Machine - Plot.
he Office of Special Counsel (OSC) is issuing more funds to ISA to recruit more skilled male assets of a higher caliber due to increased funds.
#2.22 [god_mode]

That would give Intelligence Support Activity (ISA) an opportunity to con Caleb in to working for them.

A note on your post, it would look better if you insert a few blank lines.

I'm not very good at paragraphing my posts and am just giving suggestions here. Thanks for a good read.

/Dave
Reply
Flag
Hey, first of all thank you for being the first to respond to this discussion, upon review I decided to take your advice to separate the paragraphs, as well as edit and add more to the post, loved your name for the plot being "Rage Against The Machine" lol takestly since the show started I have been waiting for an episode to at least have this title! lol Also well done with the picture above, I made a joke about my idea for the follow up episode as being cliche, but it makes you wonder if things like that are really happening.

The Doc
Reply
Flag
Big Brother is watching you.
Line is not secure.


Commencing decryption protocol - - - - -

Asset tracking...
Asset located...



No, seriously these things are surely happening all the time. On some scale at least. Over and out!



Reply
Flag
Follow this Show
Members
13,292