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Official Season 2+ News/Speculation Thread (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]May 18, 2012
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    Please direct all news, general and specific speculation, and possible spoiler material for episodes not yet aired to this thread. Also links to news articles, polls, surveys, voting, etc.

    Enjoy!
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  • Avatar of TomWayne

    TomWayne

    [2]May 18, 2012
    • member since: 04/27/12
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    Season One's final montage (and implied setups for S2):


    Reese finds Alicia Corwin's body. As her superiors who know about the machine had let her be terrorized into silence with the implied threat that the machine could mistakenly ID her as a terrorism threat the way it had Nathan Ingram, what will their reaction be to her murder, especially in lieu of the events of "No Good Deed." Will they assume that the killer knows about the machine, and escalate their efforts to eliminate any and all other persons with knowledge of it? Or will they assume that no further action is needed now that the sole known loose cannon is dead?


    Agent Donnelly receives Fusco's anonymous message identifying the leadership of HR, and has his men arrest them. Will he begin to consider that there may be another way of looking at the situation surrounding the man in the suit? Will his own number come up as others affiliated with HR retaliate?


    Officer Simmons is seen walking free in uniform, so he poses a threat not just to Donnelly, but he also saw Fusco and Carter rescue Reese, and knows that Fusco ratted out the HR brass.


    Fusco looks relieved after sending the anonymous HR info to Donnelly, finally able to have some peace about being a good cop again (or so he thinks). Does he know that Simmons was not arrested (yet), and, if so, does Simmons pose a threat to Fusco and/or his son? Same question applies to Carter and/or her son being at risk. Carter returns Fusco's smile with a straight-faced look, implying that she sees building trust in him as a day-by-day thing, and also that, for the sake of themselves as well as Reese and Finch, they need to be cautious about their interaction, especially at the office.


    Reese wanders around Finch's library table, obviously distraught and wondering how he can do what needs to be done--how he can get the Machine to give him the info he'll need to find and rescue Finch. If only Finch had told him what he meant by saying that, if anything ever happened to him (Finch), he had a contingency in place. How on earth ... ? He freezes, suddenly aware of the answer.


    Reese walks down the sidewalk to a video camera (the same one he stood in front of at the end of the Pilot episode), and stares up at it. We see the Machine's POV as Reese stares straight into the lens. It acknowledges Reese as an "Asset" and begins to monitor him closely. Reese tells the Machine that Finch is in danger, and tells it that it's going to help Reese get him back. (Root had been careful to hold Finch at gunpoint out of camera view, and had kept her tone of voice light and nonthreatening, apparently in the knowledge that failing to do so might alert Reese--so therefore the machine hadn't identified the threat to Finch yet. Until now.) Reese's apparent assumption is that the Machine would take action directly on any statement he made as Finch's partner (without needing to cross-reference other data), and that telling the Machine that Finch was in danger and that he (Reese) needed its help, would activate the contingency program. The machine instantly reacts as Reese deduced--it read "Error: Continuity of Operations Compromised. Evaluating options." seconds later, the pay phone near Reese rings. Remembering that Finch picked up a similar call before (in "No Good Deed"), Reese walks to the phone and picks up the receiver. The end.


    What is the contingency plan, how does it work, what happens on those calls, and how much does Root know about the Machine? How will this development in the Machine as a character affect the way things operate, and what further developments will occur next season?


    And what of Root? Who is she? Is she somehow connected to the story in other ways (Stanton, Snow, Elias, NSA)? Is she someone's unknown daughter (e.g. Nathan, Finch, Moretti)? She obviously is wackadoodle, making Elias seem to actually have a heart.


    Speaking of Elias, what will his role be in S2? Will Simmons appeal to him for help?


    And how about Stanton and Snow? Does Stanton realize that Reese saved her life by not shooting her, and instead warning her about the incoming attack in Ordos? If so, will she help him, come after him, or ignore him? Did Snow survive their little "chat"?


    And of course, we still need the flashbacks for 2010 to be completed--Nathan's murder, Finch's injury, the connection between the laptop in Ordos and the Machine, Alicia's departure from the NSA, the resuming of business-as-usual at IFT, Finch's real life history before MIT, etc.


    I applauded at the end of the finale--I couldn't help myself, it was so good. Bring on Season 2!


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  • Avatar of nemosnanny

    nemosnanny

    [3]May 23, 2012
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    Does it bother anyone else that this man has half the federal agents and corrupt cops in New York looking for him and he strolls around Midtown, goes to bars with Carter (who was also being followed), meets her at diners and, along with Finch, still thinks that everyone thinks he's dead? He wears no gloves, wears no hoodies and still no one can follow him to his cheap hotel or the library. Surely Zoe has the means and motivation to track him. Will he really move into the ritzy place Finch gave him? If he does (b/c who's going to pay the hotel bill now that Finch has been taken), will he sleep on the floor (al a Monte Cristo)? The loft would make a good strategic place to hide from intruders.


    I greatly enjoyed the producers commentary version of the pilot that was online for a few weeks. That surely will be on the DVD. Nolan mentioned the "suicide pact" between Finch and Reese ("We'll end up dead. Really dead."). I hope they explore what led these two men to have this kind of relationship right off the bat (and no, it's not a "bromance").


    I didn't like the reveal of Finch's relationship with Grace ("Grace"--we get it; there is no grace in his current situation). It made the character too much about secrecy for its own sake rather than being forced into it by the circumstance. It felt like the writers were showing their underwear on the playground.

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  • Avatar of Sp3kkie

    Sp3kkie

    [4]May 24, 2012
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    Reese is trained in hiding. And Finch has a lot of experience too. I know he is followed by everyone. But they can't attack him at all times, they have to be careful. For example, HR can be busted if they take him out, especially because of Carter. And the CIA isn't even allowed to act on US soil.


    I liked the reveal of Finches past. And if you mean by mysterious that he had a wife just for being mysterious its strange. You did get the earliest known name of Finch is Harold Wrench I think, but it doesn't matter. That name was the one he used when he was 18. No record before that. This man is all about being mysterious. The wife isn't even the biggest surprise. Although I liked it.


    As far as season 2 goes. We are going to see more of Reese's old partner, although I'm not really sure how. I mean, she could be an enemy, however, why would she hunt down Reese, he did nothing wrong to her. Its actually the other way around. I think Fusco will be in trouble, because the one HR dude was still free.


    CIA guys will be a surprise too, I think Snow is still alive, but not sure whats happening with him. I think that we get more info on Ingram too in season 2.


    And I hope that Zoe becomes a regular. Not a character in every episode but maybe in a couple more than this season. Elias will come back, although not sure how. My guess, he runs things from out of prison, till he can come out, then the crew will bust him out.


    And maybe it is to early into this show, so maybe its better if the wait till season 3 or the final, but it would be nice if they could get some help from one of the PoI's of the first season. Someone like the lawyer or the judge.

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  • Avatar of bobs_fish

    bobs_fish

    [5]May 27, 2012
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    What if "Charlie Burton" (Enrico Colantoni) isn't really Elias at all, but a stand-in/loyal lieutenant, and Scarface is the real Elias? This is something I had speculated to myself a while ago, but then I rejected it. But now, after some re-watches of episodes, I'm seriously considering it again.

    Think about in the first episode of Star Wars, when Queen Amidala had one of her ladies-in-waiting pretending to be her while she, the real Queen Amidala, posed as one of the ladies-in-waiting. Or in The Princess Bride, when Westley was telling Buttercup about how he became the Dread Pirate Roberts when the previous Dread Pirate Roberts wanted to retire. The real Dread Pirate Roberts posed as first mate on a new ship with a new crew, all the while calling Westley by the name Roberts, so that the crew believed that Westley was Roberts.

    Scarface has been the one personally killing the people Elias wants revenge on or wants to take out, as we saw in episodes such as Witness and Flesh and Blood. Now, it could be that Elias doesn't want to get his hands dirty, so he's having Scarface do it. But then there's the scene with the young Elias about to be killed by the men who were complaining that dons didn't clean up their own messes anymore. Was that a hint? Young Elias killed those men himself (although admittedly in self-defence). But he does want a return to the old order. And consider this: Carter shot and wounded Elias after he killed Detective Sully. We know it was actually Elias who killed Sully because they matched his DNA to either Marlene Elias or Moretti, or both (I forget which). But we never saw what Elias looked like then. Put this together with the fact that Scarface is doing the actual killing, and it's not impossible that he was the one that was there and killed Sully and shot at Carter. That would mean that it was his DNA and not "Charlie Burton's."

    I just remember seeing that scene after "Elias" went to prison, of Scarface watching Don Moretti and Moretti Jr. being killed, and then being driven away instead of doing the driving. It could be that they were just showing that while Elias is in prison, his loyal lieutenant is still out there to carry out Elias's orders. Or it could be that they were just showing who is really behind everything.

    The main reason I had ended up rejecting this theory before is that in Flesh and Blood they showed Charlie Burton/Elias rubbing the scar on his hand and then the scene with the two men who had been sent to kill young Elias, who got his hands cut when defending himself from a garotting wire. There was also that personal phone call that Charlie Burton/Elias made to Elias's father/half brother right before they died. But in the latter, he could have just been the messenger, as it cut right to Scarface watching the car burn right after. And in the former, the scar on Charlie Burton/Elias's hand could have been part of the disguise, to make people believe Burton was Elias. I wish we could get a look at Scarface's hands to see if he has any scars.

    It sure would be an interesting twist, if Charlie Burton, who in Witness was not a witness, but Elias, wasn't even Elias after all that and it was Scarface all along. But maybe I'm forgetting something. What does everyone else think?

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  • Avatar of TomWayne

    TomWayne

    [6]May 29, 2012
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    Anyone taking odds on if Root/Turing is Finch's daughter?


    As noted above by another fan, he only started using the name Harold Wren at MIT, where he met Nathan Ingram for the first time. The characters seem to be about that many years apart in age, which is also roughly the age difference between Michael Emerson and Amy Acker. (Still wondering if those were Amy Acker's hands in "Root Cause"--going to take a closer look this week during the rerun.) If Finch had left his pre-college life completely behind (due to whatever made him live by the motto "Only the paranoid survive"), it would be plausible that his daughter would have similar intellect and a great (andpossibly credibly malevolent) desire to find him, or at least track him down when she found out about him. Think about it: Finch (listening to Turing talk to Reese about her security views): "A girl after my own heart." And later Root/Turing (in the car): "Harold, we have SO much to talk about!"


    Ok, granted--it'd be pushing the cliche envelope pretty far (especially the idea of an unknown child from a secret-one-night-farewell-stand), and last I checked Jonathan Nolan is writing this puppy, not George Lucas. Still, if anyone could take a cliche and make it actually work, it'd be Nolan.


    Just wanted to put it out there on the record in case it happens. Of course, I was wrong about Stanton being Root, but I actually like Turing as Root much better anyway, now that we've seen that she's wackadoodle on another whole level.


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  • Avatar of ohjeans

    ohjeans

    [7]Jun 2, 2012
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    ROOT'S MOTIVES


    Great theories, everyone. We don't know what motivates Root, and her motivations will play a big part in Finch's fate at her hands. From "Root Cause" I thought she was motivated solely by greed since she was running a murder-for-hire crew. I don't DVR, so I've only seen the episodes when they are broadcasted. From "No Good Deed," I got the impression that "Pennsylvania 2," the corrupt DC politician, had hired Root to find and seize the Machine's Creator. I expect Pa2 is on some Congressional committee where he gained knowledge of the Machine, and he decided he wanted to control it for his own (naturally) nefarious evil purposes. ( And how did he know the Creator was still alive?) Pa2 perhaps has been using people like Root to systematically kill off anyone he suspects would interfere with his plans for the Machine. So he set a computer genius to catch a computer genius. If Root's motive is still just the money, she'll waste no time in torturing Finch to gain access to the Machine. Unfortunately our Harold doesn't have Mr. Reese's wonderful pain resistance training. In this scenario, I think that, knowing this about himself, Finch would do his best to kill himself rather than let her loose in the Machine.


    However, on this job Root may not be motivated by money. Has she become obsessed with the one and only "worthy opponent" of her career (as Moriarty was obsessed with Sherlock)? If she's as nuts as many of you think she is, rather than simply torture Finch to get access to the Machine and then kill him, she may embark on a series of head games and challenges against him. Pa2 will find out too late that he doesn't control her. In this case, Root's motives could include fascination and even delight that she finally has someone to "play" with at her own level.


    The idea that Root is family to Finch is also intriguing. I keep going back to Finch's last remark in the justly-celebrated Baby episode: "The trouble with children, you never know how they're going to turn out." If she's not a daughter, she could be someone he mentored who went rogue, or a niece, the child of one of those brothers who threw Finch into the deep end of the pool as a boy. Then Root's motives might include personal anger and revenge at a perceived betrayal by Finch.


    I don't have DVR, so I've only seen the episodes as they are broadcast. To those of you with the ability to study each episode for clues, I'm looking forward to more of your ideas about Season 2+.

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  • Avatar of ronwhitehouse

    ronwhitehouse

    [8]Jun 5, 2012
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    I suspect that Finch does not have access to the Machine in the traditional sense, like a backdoor password or some such thing. Perhaps the Machine contacts him...hence the payphone calls. If this is the case, anybody torturing Finch for access is going to become very frustrated (so let's hope that person isn't already mentally-imbalanced, eh?). Another possibility would be that Finch's usual means of access gets severed as soon as the Machine realizes that he's been compromised, sort of a contingency program that kicks in. This failsafe would logically transfer "control" over to another trustworthy "yellowbox"...phonecall for you, Reese?

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  • Avatar of ohjeans

    ohjeans

    [9]Jul 10, 2012
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    Yellow Boxes and Threats to System


    In several of the Forums for PoI, many have speculated on the meaning of The Machine's graphic indicators. I am beginning to think thusly:


    a) No, Yellow does not mean one who knows about The Machine (e.g., John's box was Yellow back when Jessica was still unmarried).


    b) No, Yellow does not mean Asset (e.g., PoIs have been Yellow when it was highly unlikely that they could ever be of use to The Machine's present or future safety or mission).


    I think the Yellow Box means "This person is enmeshed in indicators of Planned Violence."


    Still, just about all The Machine's Assets would be in Yellow Boxes. The Machine is a Conspiracy Susser. It must be aware of the long-time, ongoing conspiracies against itself, even if it found them by going backwards. Usually it works from Noting and Assessing Violence-related Objects and Actions, to Pinpointing a Person. A conspiracy against its safety could be detected in this way. But a conspiracy to twist its mission would have to be discovered backwards, because highjacking its mission could be accomplished without the use of violence; all one would have to do is get The Machine to recognize one as the Administrator. This could be what Root is up to. She snatched Finch, and The Machine never saw it coming. Sure, it tagged her as a PoI because of the phony hit job. But it never tagged her "Threat to System."


    Would like to know others' ideas on this.


    (Hope you don't mind, I posted this same content in The Machine's Official Forum. By repeating here I am hoping to see more replies.)

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  • Avatar of phonzee101

    phonzee101

    [10]Jul 15, 2012
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    In this photo taken on the set of "Contingency" you can see Jim Caviezel with Ken Leung who played Miles on LOST. I read somewhere that Ken's character helps John on his journey of reuniting with Finch. I think he's the one on the phone that John picked up.


    http://jjlowe58.tumblr.com/post/27085028527/here-is-the-exclusive-tv-guide-article-on-person


    Also on that last page of TVguide in the link above Nolan says they want as many scenes between Michael Emerson & Amy Acker as possible.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbKVhwQ30OU


    Taraji Henson even said Finch isn't found in the first episode in a Comic con interview (although she probably was just joking.) ^^^


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW5vgX-NzAw


    Emerson saying he's shooting scenes at gas stations & diners.^^^


    Edited on 07/15/2012 8:41pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of ronwhitehouse

    ronwhitehouse

    [11]Jul 17, 2012
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    Hey, ohjeans...I like your speculations on how the "eyes" and "ears" of the Machine work, how the differently-colored boxes might qualify whoever is being framed. If you haven't already, check out the thread NumberS, plural?...we were using it to chronicle the inner workings of the Machine (until time got short and I couldn't keep up with every episode). The matter of the yellow boxes is an intriguing one, and there are most likely multiple answers as to what makes a yellow appear. I personally stand by an early assertion that yellow signifies (amongst other things) that that person is being observed by the Machine, but not recorded/surveilled in the traditional sense. It's a graphic representation of what/who is getting filtered out of any permanent data record, and it's how people like Reese and Finch manage to remain unseen and off the grid. So if you're a yellow box, that traffic camera pointed right at you will see you but not remember you...some comptroller watching the footage later on can see the reds and whites, but your image is never captured.


    The real mystery to me I guess is just who exactly determines the color assigned, the Machine or Finch or somebody else altogether? And whether all the edited yellow data is simply deleted, or put into some special file that could theoretically fall into the wrong hands. It keeps me up at night, and I swear my microwave is watching me...

    Edited on 07/17/2012 9:39pm
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  • Avatar of phonzee101

    phonzee101

    [12]Jul 20, 2012
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    Michael Emerson on set shooting in a bakery calledSugar Sweet Sunshine



    Edited on 07/20/2012 8:46pm
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  • Avatar of phonzee101

    phonzee101

    [13]Aug 9, 2012
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    n


    Jim Caviezel taking a photo with an extra on the set of the third episode of season 2. Notice he's wearing a tie, probably a flashback or an undercover job.

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  • Avatar of phonzee101

    phonzee101

    [14]Aug 30, 2012
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FvII-OmQso&feature=g-user-u


    An extended promo for season 2.


    (EDIT)


    Promo mixed up with Elementary.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G81p-_jUTyY&feature=channel&list=UL


    Extended 1 minute promo for 'Contingency'.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vyuTj7mB0Y&feature=g-user-u

    Edited on 09/08/2012 8:34pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of phonzee101

    phonzee101

    [15]Sep 24, 2012
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    Here's Michael Kelly on set.


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  • Avatar of ohjeans

    ohjeans

    [16]Sep 24, 2012
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    I am thinking that Team Reese will rescue Finch at Episode 2, but that Root will escape to plan mayhem for later in the season. What say all of you?

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  • Avatar of phonzee101

    phonzee101

    [17]Sep 26, 2012
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    ohjeans wrote:

    I am thinking that Team Reese will rescue Finch at Episode 2, but that Root will escape to plan mayhem for later in the season. What say all of you?

    Personally I think he'll rescue Finch in the 3rd episode.
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  • Avatar of AmethystRuby3

    AmethystRuby3

    [18]Sep 26, 2012
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    I have been accumulating most of these thoughts about a few days after I saw Firewall. Here are some speculations I am making about the story line and season 2:



    #23 Firewall


    Did anyone feel a chill after discovering who Root was, when Caroline Turing promises John that she keeps her clients' secrets at all costs and Finch says that Caroline is a lady after his own heart?


    It was funny to see John's reactions of wariness, astonishment and aggressiveness when Finch and Caroline mention and try to pry into his "issues"!


    John seemed almost threatening when he was scrutinizing Dr. Turing closely, pacing uneasily in her office and warning her dryly that he had heard that he could count on her discretion.


    Caroline keeps her cool even though Reese seems uncomfortable and demanding around her. Like most good psychiatrists, she thinks carefully about she says. She talks slowly and softly, but directly addresses her patient's concerns with sympathy and understanding.


    Reese seems to like avoiding questions by challenging others about personal issues that are also out of their comfort areas. He appeared slightly amused by Dr. Turing until her analysis about him zoned in too close to home when she mentioned that he might be former military.


    Then his wry smile faded. He asked her almost grimly, while he faked a grin if it is that obvious. Later, he leaned back against the couch and watched her with an air of superiority; while his slow, slightly unsteady breathing was a miniscule tell of how badly rattled he was by her unnerving understanding of who he was. But when she broke open another one of his secrets by questioning Reese about wanting to protect people, he bestowed on her a chilly, Cheshire cat like grin of steel reserve. His eyes were cold and unfriendly. He watchds her with a dark, brooding, frightening expression like at any moment, he's ready to physically harm her. Apparently, Finch isn't the only person who can be dangerous about protecting his secrets!


    John asks Caroline to close the blinds because he's afraid of snipers targeting them, but why doesn't she have some kind of protection other than a simple panic button against a man who sits alone in her office and who likes it dark and cozy?


    I was initially impressed by Caroline's kindness and delicate diplomacy in handling Reese's "fears" about her safety. She seemed so genuinely caring and yet somewhat scared about how John was developing an obsession about her.


    But, looking back, there was a hint that Dr. Turing wasn't all that she seemed. How many women do you know that, after discovering a male patient is following them, hint in which direction that they live and that they always travel the same route home, in order to calm that patient's paranoia?


    Also, what kind of a woman is okay with being a psychiatrist for so many people wavering on the edge of illegal boundaries? Wouldn't it have been hilarious if she had counseled Elias? Of course, I'm sure that he believes that he doesn't have any "issues"!



    Alicia is probably the only person who can follow Finch without him being aware of it for very long. There are times that Finch does seem to know when Reese and Fusco are shadowing him, but Finch doesn't even realize that he has led Alicia straight to his office!


    She also was able to override the alarm to his office without a problem. Finch likes his secrets and has unlimited funds, so I would assume he has the best security system available. Alicia would have to be extremely skilled to break in without causing an alarm to go off!


    I liked Alicia and hated it when she was killed abruptly. Her body was dumped on the pier like a bundle of garbage, but she was a caring, fearful, empathetic person who tried to protect Will Ingram in her own, misguided way. She also was searching for reasons for her friend's, Nathan's death, because it distressed her so greatly. The character of Alicia was a valuable one and didn't deserve to be discarded like that! She could have kept Reese and Finch on their toes and have become a great partner in their enterprise of saving lives!



    Zoe seemed subtly jealous of Caroline and uncharacteristically mean when she reminded John that she didn't think that any woman could fix him, except for maybe hinting about Jessica. But then, Zoe doesn't have a reason to be resentful of Dr. Turing, because Zoe has elegance, poise, warmth, a concealed sense of compassion and a familiarity with John that Caroline doesn't. She also shares John's intelligence, wry humor and a similar distrust of most people that was gained by her experiences as a fixer.


    How did Zoe know about Jessica? Was she the woman behind the curtain, the boss of Finch and the machine?



    Has anyone noticed that the woman who seem the most helpless and fearful, the women who don't really try to protect themselves, ex. Diane Hanson and Caroline Turing, are the bad guys?


    John was very caring and considerate of Dr. Turing's fears and panic. He paid close attention when Caroline sounded sick and shaky. He didn't seem annoyed or impatient with her when she shut down about trying to figure out who was trying to kill her. Reese appeared troubled and worried about her when she sat down and talked in a disoriented, frightened voice. He watched her with a sympathetic manner and spoke to her softly.


    John offered her some chocolate to distract her and teased her about it tasting good. He was unhappy about her continuing to pry into his personal life, including asking who he really was and why he was protecting her. But when the tactic of diversion failed, he squatted down next to her, tenderly explained what he did in the vaguest manner possible and patted her hand gently while he promised to tell her when the odds were so much against them that she had to panic.



    I'm surprised that after Dr. Turing saw that John's hand was bleeding when they checked into the hotel, she didn't offer later to bandage up his injured arm. Instead, she forced John to awkwardly wrap up his own arm by himself. Most women would have probably mothered him and at least given him some rubbing alcohol to make sure that the wound didn't become infected!



    Of course, Reese probably didn't give it a second thought because he had been around some uncaring women (Kara Stanton, who shot him when she wanted to believe that he was a traitor), women who seemed to know that he was usually capable of taking care of himself or women who weren't sure whether or not to trust him.


    Zoe was one of the first who reached out to him and gave him a way to escape from the bad guys. Yet, with all of that, Dr. Turing still seems in some ways to be very selfish!



    It was funny watching Fusco's defensiveness, vulnerability and firm replies that he was helping people when Carter turned her gun on him because she thought he was with HR. He was passionate in his assertion that he was protecting people. He seemed almost sympathetic of Carter's dilemma in trying to ferret out the bad guys by herself. He also seemed to fully realize for the first time just how much he liked rescuing the innocent from the predators on the streets of NYC!


    It took both Finch's and Carter's help to keep John and Caroline safe from HR and the FBI. The show revealed more of Finch's power when he blacked out the city's electronics except for his own cell phone and Reese's cell to protect his partner.


    When John mentioned that he took things one step at a time after both Carter and Fusco confronted him in the police car about not trusting them, I realized that is how he keeps his calm. He doesn't worry about the consequences of his actions, although he has an overall plan. He stays cool, takes his time and manages in almost every circumstance to keep his clients and himself alive.



    When I first read that Root kidnapped Finch, I was worried that she would torture him to get him to betray the secrets of the machine based on Alicia's comment, but later, I realized that Root was more psychotic than that. She lives in her own delusional little world. As long as Finch humors her and pretends to like her, he will probably be reasonably safe for a short time. He will most likely realize that after he gets over the trauma of Alicia's death and will stall for time until John and the machine can rescue him.


    Finch seemed unusually shocked and frightened by Alicia's brutal murder. He stared wide eyed and terrified at Caroline when she entered his vehicle. He was breathing hard and unsteadily while trickles of sweat ran down his forehead.


    Reese sometimes becomes afraid too, especially when there's no way out, but he's more of a survivor. He will fight to the end, when Finch, who is unused to violence as a normal part of his life, remains stunned by it.



    There is a flicker of surprise in Reese's eyes when he picks up the phone. Was it really the machine who is watching Finch's back or is there another person who is Finch's boss? Did anyone catch in the previous episode that when Finch picks up the phone, it sounds like a woman is speaking? Why did the machine not know who Finch was in the beginning and then start sending him numbers? Could Zoe be Finch's boss?


    What was Harold's backup plan in case he was killed? Was he really expecting John to speak directly to the machine or did he have another way to keep the numbers protected against harm?



    I always believed that Alicia stayed in Greenbank, West Virginia, because she was afraid of what men like Finch could do with cell phones and other bugs. She had been a NSA director and was well aware of how surveillance worked. She also didn't seem to know who was behind her friend's, Nathan Ingram's death. This made her edgy and fearful, while she tried to keep moving to stay alive. Judging by Nathan's and Finch's behaviors before Nathan's demise, not to mention Ordos, she seemed to be right.


    But after listening to her comments again, I believe that she was dodging the machine, not people like Finch! She said to Finch, after your machine killed Nathan. Harold directly responded to that accusation, her desperation, terror and exhaustion by denying gently, firmly and seriously that the machine didn't kill Nathan, people did.


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  • Avatar of AmethystRuby3

    AmethystRuby3

    [19]Sep 26, 2012
    • member since: 08/01/11
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 20

    Additional notes on No Good Deed:



    #22 No Good Deed


    In the previous episode, Harold was not happy about John finding out about his former girlfriend, but he decided to explain about Grace. He realized that it would be good for Reese to fully understand the problem, so John could protect Grace if anything happened to Harold. That was a smart plan, because now that Root has kidnapped Finch and has proved with Alicia that she doesn't like competition of any sort for Finch's attention, Grace's life is probably in very grave danger!



    I originally believed that Alicia had let something slip about Sibilance because she thought that Peck had deserved to know part of the truth after digging so hard for it and almost dying because of it. I also imagined that Alicia had discovered Finch while making her own search for the machine's owner after her curiosity was piqued, although she was terrified by Will's comment about an Uncle Harold who had also warned Will off from looking into the machine.


    But looking back on it, I understood that Alicia's goal then wasn't as noble as I first believed. She told Peck just enough to get him on the right path to the truth, which then led her to Finch and finally, the evidence that Finch gathered from the machine.



    It is very unusual in an argument, but both Nathan and Finch are right when they disagree about whether to just send the computer to the government untouched or build a back door or an off switch to the machine. Nathan was correct in wanting to having some kind of protection from the bad guys in the NSA, etc and knowing that they had to protect the innocents targeted by murderers. But Harold was so accurate about if the machine got in the wrong hands, it would be…very bad! We just don't know what terrible things Root can force Finch to do since she has kidnapped him. Hopefully, Reese and the machine can rescue Harold with Zoe's, Carter's and Fusco's help before anything earth shattering happens!


    Nathan seemed stunned and alarmed after Harold finished the total system shutdown of the machine. I didn't understand if it was that big of deal, how he could so easily set up a contingency plan?It could have been that this was their first major argument and one about something that the stakes were so huge that there could be terrible repercussions. Nathan was devastated and deeply disappointed that his friend didn't listen to him, when before, each had put total faith in the other!


    Now, I wonder if Finch's command should have put the machine beyond their control and did! But the machine heard the argument, saw that Nathan wasn't a threat, saw that he had restricted executive access and sided with Nathan. This would explain Reese's comment to the security camera that (Finch was working for you)! He was working for the machine!




    Why did Nathan Ingram have to be killed? I know it makes a good story line, but he was so kind, charming, intelligent, genuinely funny and courageous that it is hard to believe that he couldn't reappear in the show! He could have faked his death and could help Reese get back Finch!

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  • Avatar of AmethystRuby3

    AmethystRuby3

    [20]Sep 26, 2012
    • member since: 08/01/11
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 20

    Some more thoughts:



    #20 Matsya Nyaya


    In Matsya Nyaya, it was very generous for Harold to tell John one of his aliases, Harold Wren and one of his former jobs. I also wonder if Finch gave up his apartment for a birthday present, so John could have a nice place to live. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Finch has a safe house for every day, like Mozzie does on the show, White Collar.


    Both of those men share a paranoia for everyone around them, although Mozzie allows it to disable him from trusting others except for a few select people who seem to have broken through his fears (ex. Neal, Peter, Elizabeth&hellip Finch keeps to himself a lot, but he also tries to actively protect people he doesn't even know from harm.


    #17 Baby Blue


    At the end of Baby Blue, Reese mentions wistfully that it would be nice to have a child or children. Finch notes soberly that the trouble with children is, you never know how they are going to turn out. That makes me wonder if the writers are subtly hinting that Harold had a child that became evil.


    #10 Number Crunch


    In Number Crunch, when Finch realized that Carter betrayed Reese, he appeared appalled, horrified and very fearful. His eyes widened while he launched to his feet and hurried for the car. After Reese calls him up, admits that he's basically dying and gives his final goodbye by thanking Harold for the job, Finch noticeably sniffs back a tear and speeds even faster to rescue his friend. Finch seems to realize after seeing one man die at his feet that Reese is not superhuman. He might also be fearful of losing another friend after Nathan's murder.


    It is revealed later that he gave Reese this job because he felt guilty at not being able to save the one person that John loved. Harold is very aware that this one failure to protect an "irrelevant number" sent Reese on a downward spiral of depression and suicidal tendencies. Finch's wary, cold exterior conceals a deep sense of loyalty, responsibility and love toward victims. He freaks out even worse that Reese does when people can't be rescued. It's obvious that if he ever lost Reese, the remorse would probably kill him.


    I always believed that Harold called Carter, Detective, because he didn't like nor trust her. He treats the people he is wary of with a kind of formal distance. But later, after I saw the scene where Fusco asks Carter what her first name is and she tells him Detective, I realized that Finch makes a point to call her that out of kindness. He respects her privacy.


    #7 Witness


    Isn't it interesting that Elias makes a point to tell his student that he owes that student? Wouldn't it be fun if Elias ever was forced to pay that debt?


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