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Black 2 and White 2 Discussion (WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS)

  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [121]Jul 10, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
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    SPDShadowRanger wrote:


    Akuroma's English name is actually Colress.


    Was just looking over the version differences on I'm glad that they added flowers to the plots in Mistralton City in White 2. It seemed stupid never to have anything there in White.



    Corless, Colress, eitherway it still comes from Colorless and I do rather the name Achroma but whatever.


    Yeah, it bothered me those plots were there yet they never let me plant Berries there! At least there's now a reason I can't plant anything there...


    Also, posting in this topic again reminded me I have a Gym Leader Comparison post almost finished. Maybe tonight I'll finish it and post it.

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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [122]Jul 11, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    Sorry for this being late.


    Looking At: Unova Gym Leader Teams:
    Well, looks like news has finally starting to die down on Pokemon Black 2 & White 2 so since I'm bored I guess it's time for me to share my arrogant brilliant opinions and findings on something relating to Black 2 & White 2, this time the Gym Leaders! Now I know, we've sort of went through a quick discussion on what changed about them and what hasn't and some of the disappointments we have had with them, though we didn't discuss anything in-depth so I thought it wouldn't hurt to take a look closer.

    Now obviously we can't really completely compare as some changes have been made to the Gym Leader line-up. While Burgh, Elesa, Clay, and Skyla are still the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Gym Leader, respectively, the 1st, 2nd, 7th, and 8th Gym Leaders have changed. Well, 1st, 2nd, and 8th have changed as 7th is a returning Gym Leader (if you played Black that is), in addition the 1st Gym Leader is a returning Gym but under a new Gym Leader though it still gives the same Badge. Right now I'm just going to just compare the Gym Leader's by their position though I will cut out a short section at the end for the previous two exceptions to the "changed Gym Leaders". For Gyms that are different between B&W and B2&W2 I'll more be talking about the changes rather then comparing their Pokemon teams (though I'll still do that to an extent). Also I'm not going to talk about the B2&W2 Challenge Mode teams as it's Black 2 version only and even then they only make small changes (the biggest is just adding in another Pokemon to their party). Finally, I won't be talking about the Gym Puzzles as I've been trying my best not to see the solutions so I can solve them myself (yeah, yeah, I know Gym Puzzles are easy but I have to keep something non-spoiled ). So with no further messing around, let's get to comparing:

    GYM 1:
    Black & White:
    City: Striaton City
    Leaders: Cilan/Chili/Cress
    Types: Grass/Fire/Water
    Badge: Trio Badge

    Black 2 & White 2:
    City: Aspertia City
    Leader: Cheren
    Type: Normal
    Badge: Basic Badge

    This first most notable change, yet one which sort of still serves the same function. I've said in the past that I noticed that in Black & White that the first 2 Gyms were more "teaching" Gyms. In Black & White, the first Gym is the Striaton Gym which taught you about the the Starter's type traingle (Grass weak to Fire weak to Water weak to Grass) by making sure the Gym Leader you faced had the type advantage against your Starter but you can get back the advantage by getting one of the Elemental Monkeys from the Dreamyard. The second Gym is the Nacrene Gym which taught you that you'll need to catch Pokemon to cover up other type weaknesses by having Fighting-types available in Pinwheel Forest. However in B2&W2 they decided to cut the "teaching" Gym to just one making it the Normal-type. Not only that, to emphasis it's a "teaching" Gym, it's in the player's home city, the Gym doubles as the Trainer School, and the Gym Leader is Cheren who fits the "top student" or "scholar" arch-type you would think you would face in a "teaching" Gym. I actually like this, With there being 2 "teaching" Gyms it feels the game is holding your hand and doesn't really seem necessary considering your rivals should be teaching you about the Starter's type triangle.
    As for the teams themselves, well, it's the first Gym. In B&W as long as you have more then 2 Pokemon you should be fine, especially if you got the Elemental Monkey. In B2&W2, you're facing a Lillipup and Patrat, if you can't beat those then return your the game. Actually a few interesting thing is that both (well, all four) Gym Leaders have a Lillipup and Cheren's team are both the pre-evolutions of the team Lenora had in B&W.

    GYM 2:
    Black & White:
    City: Nacrene City
    Leader: Lenora
    Type: Normal
    Badge: Basic Badge

    Black 2 & White 2:
    City: Virbank City
    Leader: Roxie
    Type: Poison
    Badge: Toxic Badge

    What is that Roxie has? Is that... is that a Gen I Pokemon!? Yes, get used to seeing a previous Generation Pokemon on a Gym Leader roster as there will usually be one (and only one) on there. Anyway, I don't think I can say much here as these Gyms don't really have anything in common. For the first Gym I could talk about how both were "teaching" Gyms, however here it's a different story. While in B&W Lenora was also a "teaching" Gym as I explained above, Roxie on the other hand is to be taken as your first real challenge. With Lenora you're told to catch a Fighting-type which are found right outside Nacrene City in Pinwheel Forest. But for Roxie, while you'll probably be told by some people about Poison-types being weak to Ground- and Psychic-types (probably by Clyde the Gym Guide), you can't catch those types before you challenge her. You'll probably be told to bring Antidotes but other then that you're going to challenge the Gym Leader without any advantage. Personally, I like that, the first Gym is there to teach you how Gym Battles are done and after that you should be able to figure it out on your own. Maybe they could have added a Ground- or Psychic-type somewhere out of reach, but overall I like seeing the game expecting you to have learned what you needed from the first Gym going into the second.
    Though with all that said, on a battling level, it feels like Lenora is a much tougher opponent. Lenora looks to have strategies ready to go anytime during the battle. Both her Pokemon know Leer to lower Defense and they only know Physical attacks, Watchog has Hypnosis to put your Pokemon to Sleep, and do I even need to mention Retaliate which both her Pokemon know? However for Roxie, aside from the usual "Poison them" strategy which you would expect from a Poison-type Gym Leader, I don't see much going on. Her Koffing has Assurance which can be good since Koffing are slow Pokemon and they have a high Defense (though they have low HP and low Special Defense, hint hint), but other then that nothing. Koffing has Clear Smog meaning you can't setup though you don't really need to, Whirlipede knows Protect and Pursuit though Protect is more there to annoy you and the only reason you'll be sending out a new Pokemon is because Whirlipede knocked out your current fighter. Whirlipede's high Defense and Special Defense will mean it'll be able to take a few hits but it has low Attack and Special Attack in exchange making her most powerful move, Venoshock, not that threatening. Also, being Whirlipede is part Bug-type, there are Pidove's right outside Virbank City (I suggest catching one in the Virbank Industrial Complex as those are the highest level ones available at the moment, though either way if you'll have to level grind a bit if you plan on using one).

    GYM 3:
    City: Castelia City
    Leader: Burgh
    Type: Bug
    Badge: Insect Badge

    And now back to our previous Gym Leader line-up. Burgh, what here has changed which is worthy to mention? Well, because Roxie is using a Whirlipede you obviously can't so it gets replaced with a Swadloon. Oh wait, I said "worthy to mention", didn't I? Yeah, being your prime Pokemon is Leavanny, the evolution of Swadloon, people will be prepared for that thus will be prepared for Swadloon. Not to mention with no more Whirlipede there is no more need to worry about getting Poisoned. Oh, and a high Defense and Special Defense won't help against Flying- (from those before mentioned Pidoves) and Fire-type (from a Darumaka you can still find on Route 4) attacks you're quadruple weak to. Also for some reason you replaced Leavanny's Protect with Cut which was rather pointless. Not like it'll matter though as not even that added Sitrus Berry it has will stop what took down Swadloon from taking it down.
    Now don't get me wrong, I like Burgh, he's a pretty cool guy, but they did nothing with him in B2&W2. He has access to previous Generations Bug-type Pokemon yet you give him the a pre-evolution of his prime Pokemon which is the same type it is thus shares it's weaknesses? The Unova Dex contains the Combee family, Heracoss, Pinsir, Skorupi (though just Skorupi), Shuckle, and the Yanma family now. Why not replace Whirlipede with one of them? Burgh is the only Gym Leader other than Cheren (who, as I said, was a "teaching" Gym thus has an excuse why he doesn't have any tougher Pokemon) who didn't receive a previous Generation Pokemon and I don't know why. It wasn't like Burgh was a tough Gym Leader that they had to weaken him, actually in B&W you probably had a tougher time with Lenora.

    GYM 4:
    City: Nimbasa City
    Leader: Elesa
    Type: Electric
    Badge: Bolt Badge
    Black & White:

    Black 2 & White 2:

    Elese was the only returning Gym Leader to receive any spotlight showing off that she got a new sprite. The reason for this is probably because she's the ONLY returning Gym Leader to get a new sprite (well, there is another one but that other one is no longer a Gym Leader in B2&W2...). Though the extra care doesn't end there, she's the first returning Gym Leader to get a previous Gen Pokemon and has gotten a considerable level boost. Her Pokemon are 3 levels higher then they were in B&W which may not seem like a lot in that comparison. But comparing it to the levels of the previous Gym Leader's, Burgh's, Pokemon it's a 6 level jump compared to the 4 level in B&W. That is a considerable jump. Also they changed her Volt Switch strategy a bit by replacing one of her Emolga with the before mentioned previous Gen Pokemon, a Flaaffy, which also knows Thunder Wave and Confuse Ray she'll no doubt try to Parafusion (inflicting your Pokemon with both Paralyze and Confusion) you with (or just Confuse if you got a Sandile with you from Route 4). They also gave her prime Pokemon, Zebstrika, Stomp to deal some hefty damage to that before mentioned Sandile. And for added fun, she has a Sitrus Berry on Emolga and Zebstrika.
    Elesa is a prime example of how you should redesign a returning Gym Leader for a sequel. She got a new sprite, new Pokemon, and her strategy and moves have been improved to handle any strategies that players came up with to handle her in B&W. Now if you have a high leveled Pokemon and a Ground-type like Sandile you'll probably have an easier time if you didn't, but I sdo think Elesa will provide a tougher challenger in B2&W2 then she did in B&W.

    GYM 5:
    City: Driftveil City
    Leader: Clay
    Type: Ground
    Badge: Quake Badge

    While not a big level jump like Elesa got, he did replace that Palpitoad with a Sandslash which is probably all the better as a double weakness to Water- and Grass-type attacks means you have a better chance of surviving one turn then having a quadruple weakness to Grass-type attacks. Krokorok ditched Swagger for Sand Tomb which can be annoying but not that hard to handle. Sandslash is ready to dish out heavy damage with Bulldoze, Crush Claw, and Rollout and has Fury Cutter for Grass-types. Excadrill swapped Hone Claws with Metal Claw which means that now it's a complete attacker and probably better for it (did I mention it also has a Sitrus Better now?). However, while he might be a bit tougher in B2&W2, overall he should be as tough as he was in B&W.

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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [123]Jul 11, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
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    GYM 6:
    City: Mistralton City
    Leader: Skyla
    Type: Flying
    Badge: Jet Badge

    Got a decent level increase plus replace the com mon Unfezant with a much more opposing Skarmory. Starting off, Swoobat has replaced Amnesia with Attract making it a bit of a bother if you're using a male Pokemon against it. Skarmory Defense and Special Defense will keep it in battle for awhile giving it at least one turn to hit with Steel Wing but it's other attacks, Air Cutter, Fury Attack, and Agility, aren't immediately threatening (and if you're using an Electric-type Pokemon (which you should) then even Steel Wing won't be that much of a problem). Finally her Swanna decided to follow in Falkner's Pidgeotto's footsteps and has dropped Aqua Ring and Aerial Ace for Roost and Featherdance... which would be threatening if you weren't using an Electric-type Pokemon using a Special Electric-type attack (hey, did you know you can catch Mareep very early on (like before you even battle Roxie) meaning you could possibly have an Ampharos by the time you battle Skyla ?). Anyway it might take longer to take down Skyla, but then again they gave you the Mareep family.


    GYM 7:
    Black & White:
    City: Icirrus City
    Leader: Brycen
    Type: Ice
    Badge: Freeze Badge

    Black 2 & White 2:
    City: Opelucid City
    Leader: Drayden
    Type: Dragon
    Badge: Legend Badge

    Well, this puts a new twist on the term "returning Gym Leader". Now while re-ordering the Gym Leaders first happened in Platinum, in that game it was just that 3 Gym Leaders swapped places. However here a Gym Leader has been taken out but not replaced which moves the Gym Leader above them to be pushed down to their position. While replacing and bringing in a new Gym Leader within the same Generation is always looked upon as the biggest changes, I feel that position changes are actually a bit more unique which I'll get into later when I compare Drayden's teams in B&W and B2&W2.
    If you had a Fire-, Rock-, or Fighting-type you would do fine against Brycen, and even if you didn't then smashing through his Pokemon still wasn't that hard. And even if he gets a chance to attack, as long as your Pokemon wasn't weak to Ice-types, it would probably be able to take the hit. Drayden on the other hand, well, we'll talk more Dragon-types for the next Gym. For now I'll just say that Drayden's returning Pokemon have some new moves which I'll talk about during his back-to-back comparison, however the biggest change I will note is that he now uses a Flygon instead of a Fraxure which I personally as he already has a Haxorus. As before, as long as you brought an Ice-type you shouldn't have any problems, even moreso now that he replaced Fraxure, who was only 2x weak to Ice-types, with a Flyong, who is 4x weak to Ice-types. Just be careful though, let Druddigon or Flygon move and it might take your Ice-type out with a Revenge or Rock Slide, respectively.
    Hmm, something seems off here though. Well, for me and those who have White version that is. To those who played Black version nothing would seem wrong but those those who played White and challenged the Opelucid Gym, well...


    GYM 8:
    Black & White:
    City: Opelucid City
    Leader(s): Drayden/Iris
    Type: Dragon
    Badge: Legend Badge

    Black 2 & White 2:
    City: Seigaiha (jp. name) City
    Leader: Marlon
    Type: Water
    Badge: Wave Badge

    I remember when we first saw Marlon. We assumed that, because he only had 3 Pokemon, he was an early Gym Leader thinking he would be a Gym Leader of one of the new cities that popped up on Unova's southwest corner. But as it turns out, he's not an early Gym Leader, nope, with Drayden being pushed down to 7th the 8th spot needed filling in and Marlon answered the call! Now while I know in Hoenn the last Gym was a Water-type Gym, to me that made a bit of sense as Hoenn was sort of a water-based region. However to me a Water Gym Leader replacing the Dragon-type Gym Leader just seems odd. The last Gym is suppose to be the most challenging and, while I'm not saying a Water-type Gym can't do that, to me it would seem that the Dragon-type Gym which is being replaced was the tougher challenge. Dragon-types resist Grass, Fire, Water, and Electric-type Pokemon. Grass, Fire, Water. The three starter types. Unlike other Gyms where one starter may have an advantage or do neutral damage, in a Dragon-type Gym no starter has the advantage. However Water is one of the starting elements meaning those who picked the Grass-types will have a much easier challenge (because, let's all admit it, out starter is probably the strongest Pokemon we have during the storyline).
    Speaking of type advantage, let's talk about the teams. It's not secret that Drayden's and Iris's team were pretty much the same except for two differences: the gender of their Pokemon matched their gender (Drayden's Pokemon were male, Iris's Pokemon were female) and the Abilities of their Druddigons were different (Drayden's had Rough Skin, Iris's has Sheer Force). Now out of these differences you'll think the Ability one would effect the battle more if not the only thing effecting the battle, but this isn't the case. Look over to their Fraxure and you'll see both have the Rivalry Ability which increases Attack and Special Attack by 25% if the opponent is the same gender but decreases them by the same amount if the opposite gender. It's a small thing to notice but I do like that the designers did put the fact their Pokemon being different genders actually have an effect. But overall if you use an Ice-type you should be fine, just don't let Fraxure & Haxorus set-up Dragon Dance, don't physically attack Drayden's Druddigon (in Black version), and careful of Iris's Druddigon's increase attack power and remember it has no secondary effect on those attacks (in White version). But enough about them, let's go into the new Gym Leader on the block: Marlon. As I said, a Grass-type does wonders here especially against his Carracosta, though an Electric-type works just as well too. All of them know Scald so you may want to bring some Burn healing items, Carracosta knows Shell Smash which could cause trouble if let loose, Wailord had Rollout for those people who wtill have Whitley's Miltank nightmares, and Jellicent has Recover so maybe having that extra super-effective type as back-up isn't a bad idea.
    Now for those Black version players out there, you might notice an additional person here if you recall to what I pointed out about the last Gym. That's right (or incase you still can't figure it out, I'll just tell you right now), Iris is missing and left sole duty of the Gym to Drayden (who technically retired in White version). Where did she go in B2&W2? That's for another group of trainers for another day...


    So, that's all 8 Gyms and their Leaders. The first has been replaced with a returning Gym under new management, the second is a completely new Gym, third to sixth had no changes except in their team line-up, seventh has been replaced with the previous game's eighth, and the new eighth is completely new. Aside from the two new ones and the ones which haven't been changed, to me there's two which stick out: the first and seventh Gym? Why? Because they're both technically returning Gyms yet have changed in what position they came in and, for the first Gym, has completely changed hands. Let's take a bit of a closer look at them:


    NORMAL GYM:
    Black & White:
    City: Nacrene City
    Leader: Lenora
    Position: 2nd
    Badge: Basic Badge

    Black 2 & White 2:
    City: Aspertia City
    Leader: Cheren
    Position: 1st
    Badge: Basic Badge

    The Normal-type has always been considered the "default" type even though it's weak to Fighting-type attacks, immune to Ghost-type attacks, Ghost-types are immune to Normal-type attacks, and Rock- & Steel-types resist it. However since none of those type are available before reaching any of these Gyms at this point I guess Normal-types would be considered the perfect type for a "teaching" Gym. Though what they teach seems to be different here. In B&W, Lenora's Gym taught that you'll have to go out of your way to catch more Pokemon to have type coverage by the people around the city heavily hinting that you should go to the area after Nacrene City, Pinwheel Forest, to pick up one of the Fighting-type Pokemon which are catchable there. However Cheren's Gym is there to just teach you how a Gym works, there's a puzzle you'll need to solve to get through, there are other trainers in the Gym who'll challenge you to a battle, and at the end there's a Gym Leader who's tougher then any trainer you may have battled before which you must defeat to get the Badge and progress through the game. In addition with the Aspertia Gym also doubling as the Trainer School where you're usually taught about the starter triangle, the Aspertia Gym sort of did the role which it took 2 Gyms to do in B&W but in a much more subtle way which I kind of like.
    Of course that's all I can say about B2&W2's Normal-type Gym. As I've said before, Lenora is a much more tougher challenge. But wait, of course the 2nd Gym is going to be a stronger challenge then the 1st Gym, that's not really a fair comparison. Well I wasn't really comparing them on strength but rather on strategy. I went through all of Lenora's tactics when comparing her to Roxie, to simply put it, Lenora has a batch of strategies at her disposal. However Cheren's strategy is much more limited to just either setting-up which leaves his Pokemon upon for an attack. His only other strategy is that his Patrat has Detect but even then he has to waste his turn using it so he might as well not have it. Also, to further add insult to injury, his Lillipup has HELPING HAND, a move you can only use in Double/Triple Battles! Maybe instead of Detect and Helping Hand you could have given then something like Double Team so that they'll at least be some sort of challenge.
    Overall the Normal Gym has brought up new ups in terms of story progression but a down in challenge. In B2&W2 is has become the sole "teaching" Gym letting the other Gyms become more of a challenge in their own way but lost any challenge because of it. Actually, even as the first Gym it's kind of a let down as at least the Striaton Gym had the gimmick of always going up against the type you're starter is weak against thus making it not really a viable choice when the Gym Leader's Elemental Monkey comes out to play.


    OPELUCID/DRAGON GYM:
    Black & White:
    Leader(s): Drayden/Iris
    Position: 8
    Badge: Legend Badge

    Black 2 & White 2:
    Leader(s): Drayden
    Position: 7
    Badge: Legend Badge

    Now comparing the Normal-type Gyms probably isn't fair since it is two different Leaders, Cities, positions, and purposes (though both are as a "teaching" Gym). So let's get rid some of those variables and instead have the only change be in position (and for half of us, Leader... sorta). As I've said, Drayden and Iris's team in B&W has slight differences which sort of had some differences going on if you didn't one shot everything with you Vanilluxe. However now that Brycen has given up his Gym Leader duties, forcing the Opelucid Gym to go down a position, you'd think that Drayden's team would have gotten weaker in B2&W2. But no, infact, Drayden's team level's go up by 5! Thus, it's actually when Drayden (and Iris) were the 8th Gym Leader in B&W when they were the weakest!
    As I mentioned, Drayden got rid of his Fraxure and replaced it with a Flygon. Being a final evolution, Flygon is no doubt stronger than Fraxure stat wise but type wise it doesn't fair any better with being quadruple weak to Ice-type attacks. It has Rock Slide presumably for said Ice-type and it's pretty fast so I suggest you either dish out the damage fast or you make sure your Ice-type can take a super effective hit. Going into Drayden's other Pokemon, an interesting thing to note here is that, with Iris gone, Drayden's Druddigon has been given the Sheer Force Ability so now it's it you have to worry about stronger attack power yet now worry about secondary effects. Taking this into note, Druddigon hasn't changed much except in one aspect: it replaced Night Slash with Crunch which not only has a higher power but also has a secondary effect meaning it gets a Sheer Force boost (not that Night Slash didn't, but Crunch has more power then it even if it's only by 10). Last but not least, his Haxorus actually has the same exact moveset as before so, as I warned before, don't let him set up those Dragon Dances! Oh, and of course all his Pokemon know Dragon Tail so if you don't K.O. his Flygon of Haxorus on the first turn be prepared to have your Pokemon, presumably your Ice-type, be switched out for one of your Pokemon that might not be prepared to battle (unless you go in with all your Pokemon prepared/only with you Ice-type).


    And with that, those are my comparison and thoughts on the Gym Leaders between Black & White and Black 2 & White 2. What do you think? Next time, I think I might check up on the group you normally battle after the Gym Leaders, the Elite Four & Champion. I mean nothing there could have changed much, then again the previous playable character technically should be the new Champion (even if you didn't re-challenge the Elite Four after beating N, N was Champion at that point so defeating him still makes you Champion), right?

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [124]Jul 11, 2012
    • member since: 03/07/06
    • level: 41
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    Boom! WE GOT GENESECT IN THE HOUSE! DOWNLOADS START NEXT MONTH!
    THE POST PAGE IS BROKEN AND I CAN'T POST PICS!
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  • Avatar of syrusfan

    syrusfan

    [125]Jul 11, 2012
    • member since: 04/25/07
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    This basically means all the Pokemon in the Unova Dex are officially confirmed now. They certainly revealed it faster than Arceus.

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  • Avatar of neoyamato_pi

    neoyamato_pi

    [126]Jul 14, 2012
    • member since: 08/26/08
    • level: 26
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    First time they released all of them in a year, so wonder what they'll have planned next year.

    And they released a new scene from the Black and White 2 trailer showing Mei--only makes me want October to come sooner.
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  • Avatar of SPDShadowRanger

    SPDShadowRanger

    [127]Jul 14, 2012
    • member since: 06/13/05
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfEKiJzFicM&feature=g-all-u

    An additional minute of the Japanese promo trailer.
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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [128]Jul 14, 2012
    • member since: 03/07/06
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    I know there are a million reasons why that won't be a full-blown series, and hoping for is stupid. But goddamn does the battle look good.

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  • Avatar of Kwando7

    Kwando7

    [129]Jul 14, 2012
    • member since: 11/28/08
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    edmasterchaos wrote:


    I know there are a million reasons why that won't be a full-blown series, and hoping for is stupid. But goddamn does the battle look good.



    Really a million? list them


    There's a difference between stupid and pointless

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [130]Jul 14, 2012
    • member since: 03/07/06
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    Kwando7 wrote:


    edmasterchaos wrote:


    I know there are a million reasons why that won't be a full-blown series, and hoping for is stupid. But goddamn does the battle look good.



    Really a million? list them


    There's a difference between stupid and pointless


    Budget wouldn't allow for such animation to be constant.


    There is no guarantee that they can get writers worth anything.


    It is impossible for the ratings to be better than the current anime.


    It would likely end up being a 26 episode series with a very oddly paced storyline.


    Once the game story line is done there is not much else to explore until new games come out.


    It is still cookie-cutter anime style, not something inspired.


    The music track is rather one-dimensional, with one or two drama songs and a bunch of different guitar riffs.


    It would not work to get fans that desired hardcore pokemon as a good deal of them quit the franchise ages ago (we are the 37%)


    Detailed animation artwork for 649 Pokemon is impossible. Even 100 is pushing it.


    I am running out of stuff, but I can't use mind control to say a dozen. Basically there's no way it wouldn't be a waste of money with a high chance of being a failure in a storytelling way.

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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [131]Jul 14, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
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    edmasterchaos wrote:


    Kwando7 wrote:


    edmasterchaos wrote:


    I know there are a million reasons why that won't be a full-blown series, and hoping for is stupid. But goddamn does the battle look good.



    Really a million? list them


    There's a difference between stupid and pointless


    Budget wouldn't allow for such animation to be constant.


    There is no guarantee that they can get writers worth anything.


    It is impossible for the ratings to be better than the current anime.


    It would likely end up being a 26 episode series with a very oddly paced storyline.


    Once the game story line is done there is not much else to explore until new games come out.


    It is still cookie-cutter anime style, not something inspired.


    The music track is rather one-dimensional, with one or two drama songs and a bunch of different guitar riffs.


    It would not work to get fans that desired hardcore pokemon as a good deal of them quit the franchise ages ago (we are the 37%)


    Detailed animation artwork for 649 Pokemon is impossible. Even 100 is pushing it.


    I am running out of stuff, but I can't use mind control to say a dozen. Basically there's no way it wouldn't be a waste of money with a high chance of being a failure in a storytelling way.



    Reason 1 is all the reason that is needed. The currant anime is an on-going anime thus a lot of money is already being put into it. Actually it just recently got an animation bump (albeit it was for minor things like Ash's eyes getting iris color, Pokemon attacks looking different, and new evolution sequence).


    Though with that said, maybe for important battles they could bump up the animation for at least the duration of the battle, like maybe for Gym Battles. It would not only look awesome but since they would want to keep the battles short we might even be able to see Ash acting smart and ignore dumb things like what happened at the Nimbasa Gym (though then again it'll probably be funny to enter into an awesome battle animation sequence... only for to be stopped short because Ash was an idiot and didn't bring his other Pokemon and after he gets another we start the awesome animation again).

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  • Avatar of Kwando7

    Kwando7

    [132]Jul 15, 2012
    • member since: 11/28/08
    • level: 18
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    • posts: 2,634

    edmasterchaos wrote:


    Kwando7 wrote:


    edmasterchaos wrote:


    I know there are a million reasons why that won't be a full-blown series, and hoping for is stupid. But goddamn does the battle look good.



    Really a million? list them


    There's a difference between stupid and pointless


    Budget wouldn't allow for such animation to be constant.


    There is no guarantee that they can get writers worth anything.


    It is impossible for the ratings to be better than the current anime.


    It would likely end up being a 26 episode series with a very oddly paced storyline.


    Once the game story line is done there is not much else to explore until new games come out.


    It is still cookie-cutter anime style, not something inspired.


    The music track is rather one-dimensional, with one or two drama songs and a bunch of different guitar riffs.


    It would not work to get fans that desired hardcore pokemon as a good deal of them quit the franchise ages ago (we are the 37%)


    Detailed animation artwork for 649 Pokemon is impossible. Even 100 is pushing it.


    I am running out of stuff, but I can't use mind control to say a dozen. Basically there's no way it wouldn't be a waste of money with a high chance of being a failure in a storytelling way.



    I'd disagree with the third reason but there really isn't anything I could do to prove my idea. they might be able to stretch the game story line a bit. i agree it is highly unlikely they would make an anime of that calibre but a person can dream

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  • Avatar of Krael4

    Krael4

    [133]Jul 17, 2012
    • member since: 02/05/12
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 34
    Alright, I've been keeping this to myself for a while now, but in the Black 2 and White 2 trailer, there are remixed versions of already existing tracks in the actual B2W2 games:

    The scene where Hugh and Kouya? are running to meet up with Bianca is using a remixed version of Hugh's theme.

    The scene where Colress is talking to Kouya and the scene where Kouya is about to battle Elesa is using a remixed version of Colress' theme.

    The scene where everybody's on the Plasma Frigate and where Kouya is chasing the Shadow Triad member is using a remixed version of New Team Plasma's theme.

    ...And I have no idea what theme is used when N is on Dragonspiral Tower or that ending scene with Black and White Kyurem.

    Also, remember all of the Pokemon N released that you can catch? Three of the Pokemon are a Darmanitan, Woobat, and a Zorua. Now, remember the opening of Black and White where we saw a shot of N as a kid? What three Pokemon were with him in that shot?

    (Now why do I feel like these two bits of info were already mentioned?)
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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [134]Jul 17, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    Krael4 wrote:
    1. Alright, I've been keeping this to myself for a while now, but in the Black 2 and White 2 trailer, there are remixed versions of already existing tracks in the actual B2W2 games:

    The scene where Hugh and Kouya? are running to meet up with Bianca is using a remixed version of Hugh's theme.

    The scene where Colress is talking to Kouya and the scene where Kouya is about to battle Elesa is using a remixed version of Colress' theme.

    The scene where everybody's on the Plasma Frigate and where Kouya is chasing the Shadow Triad member is using a remixed version of New Team Plasma's theme.

    ...And I have no idea what theme is used when N is on Dragonspiral Tower or that ending scene with Black and White Kyurem.

    2. Also, remember all of the Pokemon N released that you can catch? Three of the Pokemon are a Darmanitan, Woobat, and a Zorua. Now, remember the opening of Black and White where we saw a shot of N as a kid? What three Pokemon were with him in that shot?

    (Now why do I feel like these two bits of info were already mentioned?)


    Actually I don't think any of this information has been heard before:


    1. Not surprised they remixed music from the games, the trailer is advertising the game afterall. As for the theme that played for N and the two Kyurem, I don't know. It's very hard rock so if it's a remix I would assume you'll only be able to tell if you looked at the notes on a sheet of paper. If I were to make an assumption it'll probably be the B&W's opening theme, but as I said if it is one of them then it's a heavy rock remix which completely drowns out any familiarity with those themes as they were heard in the games.


    2. Kind of figured those are were those three came from. In addition to those three all the Pokemon which N released are the ones you fought against in Black & White, even being at the same level and having the same moves. The only Pokemon of his you can't catch are his final team (minus his dragon, they were Carracosta, Vanilluxe, Archeops, Zoroark, and Klinklang), though being two are the fossil Pokemon and the other is Zoroark I'm assuming this was done on purpose.

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  • Avatar of Kwando7

    Kwando7

    [135]Jul 18, 2012
    • member since: 11/28/08
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 2,634

    Pikachu315111 wrote:


    Krael4 wrote:
    1. Alright, I've been keeping this to myself for a while now, but in the Black 2 and White 2 trailer, there are remixed versions of already existing tracks in the actual B2W2 games:

    The scene where Hugh and Kouya? are running to meet up with Bianca is using a remixed version of Hugh's theme.

    The scene where Colress is talking to Kouya and the scene where Kouya is about to battle Elesa is using a remixed version of Colress' theme.

    The scene where everybody's on the Plasma Frigate and where Kouya is chasing the Shadow Triad member is using a remixed version of New Team Plasma's theme.

    ...And I have no idea what theme is used when N is on Dragonspiral Tower or that ending scene with Black and White Kyurem.

    2. Also, remember all of the Pokemon N released that you can catch? Three of the Pokemon are a Darmanitan, Woobat, and a Zorua. Now, remember the opening of Black and White where we saw a shot of N as a kid? What three Pokemon were with him in that shot?

    (Now why do I feel like these two bits of info were already mentioned?)


    Actually I don't think any of this information has been heard before:


    1. Not surprised they remixed music from the games, the trailer is advertising the game afterall. As for the theme that played for N and the two Kyurem, I don't know. It's very hard rock so if it's a remix I would assume you'll only be able to tell if you looked at the notes on a sheet of paper. If I were to make an assumption it'll probably be the B&W's opening theme, but as I said if it is one of them then it's a heavy rock remix which completely drowns out any familiarity with those themes as they were heard in the games.


    2. Kind of figured those are were those three came from. In addition to those three all the Pokemon which N released are the ones you fought against in Black & White, even being at the same level and having the same moves. The only Pokemon of his you can't catch are his final team (minus his dragon, they were Carracosta, Vanilluxe, Archeops, Zoroark, and Klinklang), though being two are the fossil Pokemon and the other is Zoroark I'm assuming this was done on purpose.



    would have liked to catch a klinklang

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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [136]Jul 18, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    Kwando7 wrote:


    Pikachu315111 wrote:


    Krael4 wrote:
    1. Alright, I've been keeping this to myself for a while now, but in the Black 2 and White 2 trailer, there are remixed versions of already existing tracks in the actual B2W2 games:

    The scene where Hugh and Kouya? are running to meet up with Bianca is using a remixed version of Hugh's theme.

    The scene where Colress is talking to Kouya and the scene where Kouya is about to battle Elesa is using a remixed version of Colress' theme.

    The scene where everybody's on the Plasma Frigate and where Kouya is chasing the Shadow Triad member is using a remixed version of New Team Plasma's theme.

    ...And I have no idea what theme is used when N is on Dragonspiral Tower or that ending scene with Black and White Kyurem.

    2. Also, remember all of the Pokemon N released that you can catch? Three of the Pokemon are a Darmanitan, Woobat, and a Zorua. Now, remember the opening of Black and White where we saw a shot of N as a kid? What three Pokemon were with him in that shot?

    (Now why do I feel like these two bits of info were already mentioned?)


    Actually I don't think any of this information has been heard before:


    1. Not surprised they remixed music from the games, the trailer is advertising the game afterall. As for the theme that played for N and the two Kyurem, I don't know. It's very hard rock so if it's a remix I would assume you'll only be able to tell if you looked at the notes on a sheet of paper. If I were to make an assumption it'll probably be the B&W's opening theme, but as I said if it is one of them then it's a heavy rock remix which completely drowns out any familiarity with those themes as they were heard in the games.


    2. Kind of figured those are were those three came from. In addition to those three all the Pokemon which N released are the ones you fought against in Black & White, even being at the same level and having the same moves. The only Pokemon of his you can't catch are his final team (minus his dragon, they were Carracosta, Vanilluxe, Archeops, Zoroark, and Klinklang), though being two are the fossil Pokemon and the other is Zoroark I'm assuming this was done on purpose.



    would have liked to catch a klinklang



    Well you can still catch a Klink that belonged to N.

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  • Avatar of Kwando7

    Kwando7

    [137]Jul 18, 2012
    • member since: 11/28/08
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 2,634

    Pikachu315111 wrote:


    Kwando7 wrote:


    Pikachu315111 wrote:


    Krael4 wrote:
    1. Alright, I've been keeping this to myself for a while now, but in the Black 2 and White 2 trailer, there are remixed versions of already existing tracks in the actual B2W2 games:

    The scene where Hugh and Kouya? are running to meet up with Bianca is using a remixed version of Hugh's theme.

    The scene where Colress is talking to Kouya and the scene where Kouya is about to battle Elesa is using a remixed version of Colress' theme.

    The scene where everybody's on the Plasma Frigate and where Kouya is chasing the Shadow Triad member is using a remixed version of New Team Plasma's theme.

    ...And I have no idea what theme is used when N is on Dragonspiral Tower or that ending scene with Black and White Kyurem.

    2. Also, remember all of the Pokemon N released that you can catch? Three of the Pokemon are a Darmanitan, Woobat, and a Zorua. Now, remember the opening of Black and White where we saw a shot of N as a kid? What three Pokemon were with him in that shot?

    (Now why do I feel like these two bits of info were already mentioned?)


    Actually I don't think any of this information has been heard before:


    1. Not surprised they remixed music from the games, the trailer is advertising the game afterall. As for the theme that played for N and the two Kyurem, I don't know. It's very hard rock so if it's a remix I would assume you'll only be able to tell if you looked at the notes on a sheet of paper. If I were to make an assumption it'll probably be the B&W's opening theme, but as I said if it is one of them then it's a heavy rock remix which completely drowns out any familiarity with those themes as they were heard in the games.


    2. Kind of figured those are were those three came from. In addition to those three all the Pokemon which N released are the ones you fought against in Black & White, even being at the same level and having the same moves. The only Pokemon of his you can't catch are his final team (minus his dragon, they were Carracosta, Vanilluxe, Archeops, Zoroark, and Klinklang), though being two are the fossil Pokemon and the other is Zoroark I'm assuming this was done on purpose.



    would have liked to catch a klinklang



    Well you can still catch a Klink that belonged to N.



    ....That made me realised Maybe the Klinklang wasnt the evolved Klink he had captured before hand....

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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [138]Jul 18, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    Kwando7 wrote:


    ....That made me realised Maybe the Klinklang wasnt the evolved Klink he had captured before hand....



    Yeah, all this quite clearly shows that the Pokemon we've seen N with that are an evolution of a Pokemon he previously had contact with/used in battle aren't the same Pokemon. The Zorua he knew as a kid isn't the Zoroark he used in his final battle in B&W because you get that Zorua from a Sage as your first N Pokemon. And as you just mentioned, that Klinklank he has isn't the Klink he used earlier in the game because that Klink is another one of N's Pokemon you can capture. N did indeed practice the philosophy which he believed in, the Pokemon he uses (aside from the last battle) can be found in and around the area you're currently in, and after using them he releases them back into the wild where they belong. Kind of make his last battle kind of confusing though as he uses Pokemon that aren't found on Victory Road (albeit they wild Pokemon in Victory Road aren't fully evolved but being this is the last battle I would understand if they had him use their evolved form).

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  • Avatar of Kwando7

    Kwando7

    [139]Jul 19, 2012
    • member since: 11/28/08
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 2,634

    Pikachu315111 wrote:


    Kwando7 wrote:


    ....That made me realised Maybe the Klinklang wasnt the evolved Klink he had captured before hand....



    Yeah, all this quite clearly shows that the Pokemon we've seen N with that are an evolution of a Pokemon he previously had contact with/used in battle aren't the same Pokemon. The Zorua he knew as a kid isn't the Zoroark he used in his final battle in B&W because you get that Zorua from a Sage as your first N Pokemon. And as you just mentioned, that Klinklank he has isn't the Klink he used earlier in the game because that Klink is another one of N's Pokemon you can capture. N did indeed practice the philosophy which he believed in, the Pokemon he uses (aside from the last battle) can be found in and around the area you're currently in, and after using them he releases them back into the wild where they belong. Kind of make his last battle kind of confusing though as he uses Pokemon that aren't found on Victory Road (albeit they wild Pokemon in Victory Road aren't fully evolved but being this is the last battle I would understand if they had him use their evolved form).



    Maybe they were other trainers since they had a device that allowed them to access the pc?

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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [140]Jul 21, 2012
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
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    Hey look, Bulbapedia finally uploaded Champion Iris's and "Neo" Plasma Ghetsis's Ken Sugimori artwork:



    BTW it's been confirmed that N, Anthea, and Concordia were orphans until Ghetsis adopted them. It's revealed via Anthea and Concordia (who else?) who, while not receiving official artwork, do have concept artwork of their B2&W2 designs:



    Bulbapedia calls this their "casual" wear, apparently they think they're in medieval times...

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