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Serious "jump the shark" issues with this show!

  • Avatar of HotStuff1026

    HotStuff1026

    [1]Oct 30, 2012
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    I know, someone else already made a quasi-list of issues with this show, but what bothers me the MOST is that cars will still work! Fuel-injected engines need a battery, and apparently all batteries were somehow "destroyed" (more on that later) - but engines with a carburetor do not require electricity to run. Think about it: the classic Model-T didn't have a battery, did it? You started the motor - literally - by turning a crank (hence the term, "cranking it" meaning "to start the engine".) Motorcycles, scooters, and other non-FI engines have a kick starter that works just fine without a battery, or even a working electrical system. We're talking belt-driven motors here, and there should be plenty of them running around. Pretty much any car before 1975 was non-FI (yes, it was available as an option on a lot of them, but many people didn't get it.) More on this "no working vehicles" in a moment.


    How did "the resistance" tattoo themselves so perfectly? Without electric tattoo guns, you're talking prison-type tats, even if they have color available. And as asked already, WHY tattoo yourself? To stand out? To "prove" you're part of that group? The enemy can get tattoos as well, y'know. smh


    Making bullets: WTF? All you need is gun powder, lead, shell casings, primer caps, and a method to press them together. My dad used to make ALL his own ammunition, and even had a small hammer that was empty on the inside, so you just put all the components together, whack it one time, and (pardon the pun), boom! You have a bullet. DUH! This was very, very popular amongst hunters in the 1950's and 1960's (the era in which my dad was one of those), and there were literally hundreds of thousands of gun clubs in the US with members making their own ammunition, in just about every cartridge.


    Speaking of which: muskets? Really? There are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS (if not millions) of guns in the US. There are WAY MORE than enough to equip everyone. And they have guys shooting muskets, so clearly they have gun powder and lead available (else, how are they able to reload?) Just...unbelievable.


    Clearly, since at least a few computers have been "cobbled" together, and work when in the presence of the fabled "USB power source", electrical circuits (boards, etc.) were not destroyed or rendered completely inoperable; thus, what about batteries? Car batteries, D-cells, etc. Solar power. I own a portable solar panel capable of fully charging a car battery within 2 hours (it can actually handle 3-4 batteries), and it has a transformer so I can plug in electronics (for like when I go to the beach, and want to charge my laptop.) It's not very big; the whole thing - 12-volt car battery included - fits in a medium-sized Coleman cooler, and only weighs a few pounds. Boom! Free electricity. Able to charge anything. Which brings me to my next point....


    Remember how cars don't work any more? Why? Obviously electrical components were not completely destroyed. Cars will re-charge their own battery via an alternator; OK, let's assume that every battery was somehow "drained to nothing" by whatever happened. Remember my solar battery charger/inverter? Well, you just charge up that car battery in a few hours, and put it back in the car. Boom! You should now be able to start it. And the car should keep the battery charged.


    No electricity? Grab a generator! Here in Florida, we have hundreds of thousands of people who own a generator, just in case the power goes out during a storm. So now we're expected to believe that generators somehow don't work - at all?


    Satellites: obviously, whatever affected the earth (presumably) did not extend into space (although it did make airplanes just "drop out of the sky", which itself is laughable), and thus, satellites are still up there. So, GPS is still available, and GPS units - like those (almost all) portable units in cars, or even cell-phones equipped with a GPS chip - would still be working.


    Finally (for now), we're expected to believe that the entire government - from the President on down - just "fell apart"? The Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, and every National Guard unit, somehow, just "stopped"? Really? Seriously? And now "outlaws" have somehow re-instituted a militia, and men are following orders? What happened the first time? Why did they suddenly decide to do that the second time?


    I don't see this show getting any better. Far too many "suspend beliefs" are going on at once. To me, this somehow looks exactly like "Jericho", except with more plot holes and worse writers.


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  • Avatar of acrh2

    acrh2

    [2]Oct 30, 2012
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    It's a scifi show - you have to give them some time to work things out. I have a different problem with the show. It sucks. There are no likable characters here. Whoever they have are completely uninteresting and boring. Also, your main plot mechanism for the first season is trying to rescue some kid of no importance? Whatever their challenges, they just seen so mundane.
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  • Avatar of HotStuff1026

    HotStuff1026

    [3]Oct 30, 2012
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    The problem is, you can't "work those issues out". Some ~15-odd years have passed since the whole blackout incident, and they're just NOW "re-discovering" a steam locomotive? Seriously? People would have been driving around in "classic" cars all this time. Oh, and tanks. They're not fuel injected. They'd work just fine.

    I agree, none of the characters are very interesting. The whole plot line seems...thrown together. "Let's take 'Jericho', and combine it with 'Lost', and see what happens!" smh
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  • Avatar of palle007

    palle007

    [4]Oct 31, 2012
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    They have no electricity, because some unknown force makes it impossible for it to exist. So forget about your generators.


    About Gas... Well, gas doesn't magically appear at the gas station

    Edited on 10/31/2012 5:29am
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  • Avatar of Yaspaa

    Yaspaa

    [7]Nov 10, 2012
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    The issues will be worked out at which time you will sneakily delete your posts. Lets give shows in their infancy a chance before we cut them down, It's not SpongeBob, there's a lot going on and a lot to be resolved which takes time. Patience is a virtue especially with shows like this. It seems if things aren't explained right away people can't deal with it.
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    sduvoisin

    [8]Nov 10, 2012
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    We'll see if they piece things together. It's been a few episodes and we still don't know that much about the Pendants.


    I'm thinking the government turned on themselves and that's why they collapsed.


    People you need to get on board that when the electricity went out - a lot of technology went with it. I mean how many turn crank cars are around and still working and seriously if there is no government/trade then how do you get the refined oil for it. (Cars never ran on crude oil.)


    The making bullets thing - okay yeah that's an option. However I think the militia has worked hard to get rid of guns and sends them out with muskets maybe from preventing easy to use guns falling in other people's hands.



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  • Avatar of Daniel-Jackson

    Daniel-Jackson

    [9]Nov 12, 2012
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    First things first: Since the whole idea of ALL the electricity vanishing is pure nonsense I would rather view this as fantasy instead of SciFi. There is no way you could ever "pull the plug" on the entire electricity including batteries. So when viewed as Fantasy you have an interesting world. The whole story about Miles the ex-military turned superbad-militia-leader turned ignorant turned hero-of-the-day is pretty much the only interesting story in there. The rest of the characters I wouldn't mind if they kicked the bucket.


    But let me get to your points:


    1. Making bullets: I totally agree with you there. I don't know much about weapons but if they used to make them without electricity they most certainly could make them again.


    2. Government falling apart: I partly agree. While I don't see the government just collapsing it is something I am willing to accept as part of this world. After all Military units COULD turn into some sort of militia if they would not get any new orders. And with electricity and everything down it's kind of hard to transmit orders at least initially until a route of messengers can be established. Still an unlikely but acceptable outcome.


    3. Trains: I totally agree. There are so many museum trains and other steam powered vehicles that could be taken back into effective use pretty fast. Also with the amount of organization the militia we see here obviously has, even the production of more in the old ways should be possible. After that amount of time steam powered stuff should be everywhere.


    4. Cars: That's where you are wrong. In the logic of the show's universe all electricity is non-existent, including battery power or any power output by generators or solar panels (Nonsense, but as I said: look at it as fantasy, not SciFi). With NO electric power whatsoever there would also be no power for spark plugs which are required by all gasoline engines I know of to operate. With no power even the engine itself can't power the spark plugs. Result: Any gasoline powered engine is 100 % dead.


    BUT. There are still vehicles with Diesel engines. By design those engines don't need a sparkplug and thus no electric power to operate EXCEPT for starting, which is where your manual solution might just work. Even better: Most diesel engines are capable of burning vegetable oils as fuel, so given the right amount of organization and farming for it you should at least be able to get a lot of military hardware to operate including trucks and older tanks (again from the museum probably) with no electronic guiding systems.


    So looking at the situation with Cars, Trains and other vehicles my conclusion is that these militia are pretty incompetent. So yeah, the show is kind of crappy in almost every sense of the word. Still watching it since there's not too much SciFi, err, Fantasy on the air and it still could become interesting if the writing improves. Wouldn't miss it if it got cancelled though.

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  • Avatar of JeTalis

    JeTalis

    [10]Dec 3, 2012
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    ...even if your lawnmower or scooter doesn't need a battery, it *does* need the coil and the little magnet that goes around and around to make the electrical power to spark the plug. I've taken apart more than a few small engines, I did my own repairs when I rode scooters years ago so I've seen a lot of the innards and what happens when this or that part is disconnected.

    ...airplanes need their flaps and stuff working, to be able to plane (it's a verb) through the air. They have to adjust their shape displacing the air as they move or they cannot steer (left/right *or* up/down) at all. Those parts run mostly on hydraulics run by electric pumps or mechanical power from the engines.


    I was under the impression from the start, that whatever caused the blackout didn't "kill batteries", but produced some kind of interference that prevented electricity from flowing through circuits... which would completely explain all the engines stopping. Depending on how the interference works this *may* explain why batteries that are charged don't lose their charge after 15 years. This is an entirely plausible (though horrifying) technology.

    The scene where charlie's mother explained that the pendant was a "wireless battery" was just her dumbing it down for the bad guys. The pendants seem to nullify the interference (in only a small area) that is stopping the power flow.

    I'm not saying you're completeley wrong though, as our own brains are electrical systems that (kind of) rely on electrical impulses. The way I understand it, signals that nerves generate and receive are both electrical *and* chemical.

    About the bullets... (This next part I admit is PURE speculation) I thought saying "running out" meant they were just "low" because mass production had ceased and people were still using them... I'm sure many people still made their own bullets but some guns would require very precisely machined bullet casings and mechanical parts would wear out too. 15 years is a long time to still have *any* original bullets left when that many people were panicking at the start. I think maybe Smokeless powder might need some complicated manufacturing... The idea of "ball-and-powder" guns made sense to me for the situation these characters are in, since cheaply hand-made powder should be more universally compatible amongst single-load weapons.


    If you're the sci-fi reading type, I highly recommend a novel called "Nightfall" By Isaac Asimov & Robert Silverberg. It's about a civilization living under 5 suns, who don't know what a moon is, much less stars... (they never needed to invent electric lights or even candles)... and nobody believes the archaeologist guy when he says something horrible ends all civilization once every 2000 years, and is due any day now (I want to explain more but I'll just say it's not about religion, it's about ignoring newly found informaion about the past.)

    Edited on 12/03/2012 8:29pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of elahoda

    elahoda

    [11]Feb 10, 2013
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    It's not like an EMP that kills electricity, it's obvious, after you get most of the way through season 1, that something is dampening electricity, so even a battery that still happens to have a charge, will not power something.

    I haven't got a clue as to how that could be possible, but that would put this show into the sci-fi/fantasy range.

    The science isn't my issue, it's other little things. Like somehow quickly running out of air in a massive tunnel system because you suddenly closed one end of it..... yeeeeah.
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  • Avatar of TracyTrouble

    TracyTrouble

    [12]Mar 30, 2013
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    @ Yaspaa: I have to agree with you; I think too many people are wanting shows to instantly resolve the issues they perceive as problematic. I have problems with Charlie's lack of killer instinct, always wanting to 'save' her attacker - but I figure that will sort itself out as the show progresses and develops. Hopefully she'll come to realise that some people are just beyond saving and killing them is the only way *you'll* survive (or your loved ones for that matter).


    It's because people don't give shows time anymore that so many get canned even before the first season has finished and often, these days, just a couple of episodes in. We're all pseudo scientists too - all arguing why things should work and why the show has plotholes because of it; but as has been repeatedly stated by Aaron, the laws of physics and general propulsion have been tossed out as nothing that should work by those rules does so.


    I think the main thrust of the show is that something 'different' was done - it *wasn't* an EMF burst that happened, which is what I think a lot of people here are alluding to when they go on about how somethings should work regardless - it was obviously a lot more far reaching than that. Was it the Green's trying to force us back to a time when fossil fuels weren't killing the planet; was it some new type of energy field that would give clean energy but went wrong - think of the Hadron Converter but for usable energy; was it a terrorist attack that went global or was it some kind of energy field from outer space that we've never encountered/seen before?


    Personally I'm going with manmade - and not necessarily something that was *meant* to do what it did. But that's just my opinion. If it *is* a manmade problem I wonder if we will ever meet the instigators, especially if it *was* deliberate - is that perhaps what Randall is all about (here in the UK he's just rocked up to Grace's place and she *doesn't* seem happy to see him).


    Oh and as for the characters; I find the fighters the most interesting - those, like Miles, who seem to have lost all faith that the world in general is redeemable and people in particular are even *worth* saving. Why not just sit and watch the sunset whilst the world burns? That attitude appeals to me more than the Charlies of that world with their lollipops and rainbows outlook.

    Edited on 03/30/2013 4:58pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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    dougieee7

    [13]Mar 31, 2013
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    People are reading way too much into this plot with out any back ground knowledge.


    One can only assume that what ever happened to the electrics happened at an atomic level rendering it useless AND more importantly, i think whatever did it is still in force.


    Bullets, totally agree!


    Also older diesel engines would work (in theory) with some basic mechanical knowledge. Only real issue would be removing electrical shut off valves and priming diesel by warming it somehow. If anyone has ever had the glow plugs go on their diesel they will know it just flat out wont start from cold.


    The state of regression does seem very forced, i know for a fact that the human species is far more adaptable than this show gives us credit for.


    Anyway, im just enjoying the plot and trying not to look too hard for the holes.


    As sci-fi goes its not at all that bad.

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  • Avatar of benosalankelley

    benosalankelley

    [14]Apr 5, 2013
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    Did they just completely spoil the main mystery behind the black out too early? I suppose The Tower was to blame. Or I'm thinking too much as usual, and it's what could be the answer to get the tower on. Hopefully they can build a device to combat Monroe as well. Seeing as they're destroying the devices to stop Monroe from turning everything on, to start a nuclear war or something.

    Edited on 04/05/2013 12:20am
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  • Avatar of lindhoffen

    lindhoffen

    [15]Apr 9, 2013
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    I wonder if the OP knows what the term "jumping the shark" even means. In the context of this tv series it's definitely too early using that phrase, especially since it's still establishing itself and the premise is changing now that the McGuffin finally has disappeared. The characters are doing stupid things at time, but they are doing it consistently so there is no risk of "jumping" any shark there. The plot is twisting and changing and that's how it's been ever since the pilot, you're either on the ride or you jump off, there's nothing in between.



    So, OP, exactly how and where is Revolution "jumping the shark"?



    I have no patience with TV series these days. They either interest me or they don't; I rarely have patience to sit around for a season or two to find out if it's worth investing time and emotions into it. The writing in Revolution is sometimes lazy, yes even stupid, but there are likeable characters and it often feels like a guilty pleasure watching it. Again, you need to look at the context of what has happened, the world has become a dark and dangerous place. That's bound to change people, especially seeing as our protagonists have gone through quite a lot for 13 episodes (and they went through a lot even before the Blackout).



    In short; no, there are no issues with jumping the shark. The show is picking up momentum and episode 13 was fantastic in that regard. Keep it comin'!

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    JeremyFellows

    [16]May 15, 2013
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    Although this topic was written in October, I think someone trying to point out the failed conclusions of a show before it even gets a chance to unravel is pretty idiotic. Do you need everything to be summed up in the very 1st episode? Then what would the point of a TV Series be about?

    Some of the best TV Series are the mysterious, well plotted, clever storylines that unravel over time. This show just exactly that.


    Electricity not working....

    Technically the show never said "electricity" was out. It said all "power" was out. Everything running electric and energy based currents.
    You then find out 13 episodes down the line that electricity and energy truly WASN'T stopped, it was suppressed. Suppressed by trillions of nanonite computer micro organisms that had been designed by the government in secret. Well technically, they apparently mass breeded and flew everywhere and are on everything. Including air that we breathe. That answers your question to why solar panels and other things are unused. They wouldn't work.


    Steam Engines

    ARE used in this show. You see them used on cars, buses, trains, etc in Georgia when they cross over. It was the Monroe Republic that was without such technology. Because it had become more of a 3rd world desolate place, crudely run by Monroe Militia. And that was all we saw in the first half of the show. Given time to unravel, you get to see there are other parts of the world. And that it's not the same everywhere.
    Georgia is basically rich and wealthy. They even trade with Europe. Monroe Republic on the other hand is not so wealthy.



    Bullets

    Can be easy to argue because bullets have been being made long before electricity took over the world.

    But what you need to understand is that not everyone in the world is a hunter and/or blacksmith. Not everyone in the world knows how to make bullets from scratch. And in fact, today's world is so heavily dependent on electricity and machines that so few people know about how to do things on their very own anymore. In some ways that is indeed sad. But in a world where we don't have to do things ourselves, not many of us take it upon ourselves to do them when we "don't need to".
    But regardless, even if there were the many few who knew how to make bullets still alive, there are millions of people in the world even after the blackout. You telling me it is realistic to think the very few in the world who can make bullets will be able to make enough for everyone? ESPECIALLY in constant wars? Consistently even?

    At one point in the show there's a flash back where Miles and Monroe joke about having to use swords because of a rumor that bullets were running out. With all the wars happening, all the fighting occurring everywhere during an unorganized time period within 5 years after the blackout, don't you know how fast bullets are going to run out? They don't grow on trees. And with the careless consistent, sloppy, unorganized usage of guns anywhere they can be found by everyone, it would be unrealistic to think they'd last up to 15 years with still tons and tons of ammo. That sounds like a fairytale.

    With no machines to mass reproduce bullets, it did become much easier, and much wiser to bring swords back into the mix.

    Someone can compare that back in the days before electricity that there had been plenty of wars with guns being used. So here's my response to that.
    Alright. Now let's add in the fact that the human population has grown tremendously since then. Let's add in the fact that not even if every single soldier had a gun did they also have very few ammo in those cheap little muskets and sniper rifles. There was a REASON most guns made back in that dark era had short sword hooks on the bottoms of the barrels. Because of the close combat and the reality that half of the fighting was not going to be with tons of ammo since there was not tons of ammo. Not to mention half those guns back then had one shot per long reload. Another reason not to worry too much about having a ton of ammo. Although really if I recall those little tiny steel balls called "bullets" back then weren't really much of a work of art or effort to put into making. My discussion about bullet makers in the present time was toward those making today's bullets, not little pellets of steel or iron.


    Government Collapse


    Hard to say what would REALLY happen if power went out indefinitely. There were a few times during black outs that small riots have occurred in our timeline. Hijackings, store robberies, house robberies, etc. But as of late, like with the last New York black out, people were calm, collective and there for each other. Sounds surprising though if you ask me. But then again people still had phones to communicate with. They still had things that did work and there was no need for a mass panic.
    BUT! You add in that power is off indefinitely... Food stores break down because of lack of refrigeration, bigger stores go down because no one can see and there are no emergency candlelights flooding every 5 steps of a store so it'd be easy for robbery without being seen and no alarms to go off to alert it, and I mean... you then add in lack of jobs immediately happening, people needing to eat, need money, need something to keep their current living conditions... and with nothing being met and addressed.. I can see an easy panic happening immediately.
    You would also get a ton of riots occurring immediately after the blackout. Because cars just stall, could of and probably did cause huge car accidents. Airplanes and helicopters falling out of the sky, death toll rising. People on medical tables in surgery dying. People locked in elevators, storage rooms, freezers, electric tight sealed rooms. You add in all the things that would cause deaths immediately, and then people panicking over that and their own well being, and riots will flare like open wild fire. And people will be looking out for themselves and their families, not caring who they kill or hurt in the process. Desperation causes dangerous people. And there is no real way government could just stop that immediately. Especially if its happening all around the world. If no one can reach or contact family, friends, military even or leaders. All communication would be down. And no address for police, military, officials to try to calm the people and gather them up. That's why in the show, Miles and Monroe were sitting at military base for so long awaiting orders that never came.

    The families of the President's closest officials not being heard from due to lack of communication. All the families of everyone working for the government not being accounted for due to lack of communication. No transportation service and these people wanting to see if their families are okay or not so they have to run off. Half of them get killed on their journeys back from raiders, small mobs of people grouping up to take over, etc.
    You have the worry of prisons opening up. Or do they? Electric lock keeps them in so they starve and die?
    There's literally no way the government could keep together right after such a thing happens. The very first moments maybe. But when it comes time they worry about their families it'd break off. The ones who stick around are the loners without families or friends. But how long before new power comes to mind? No one to stop anyone from taking over anything. Gathering a group. A chance for anyone to rise up. Doubtful that the government would last. And that is why it didn't in the show. And why the Monroe Republic began. Someone else rose up. Gathered people.

    Main reason the government would not last is because it would be the old idea. It was the old idea. The old world. The idea that had power and backbone because of the era we were in. It grew, consumed and enveloped the electrical era even though it came before it. Without that backbone that it grew into though, there would be nothing stopping people from deciding to take matters into their own hands.


    Conclusion

    The show does a good job. It unravels over time and new things begin to take place and old things begin to make more sense. It keeps you guessing and wondering. Hell, even the main cast can die off which it has shown. The first half of the season was about rescuing Danny. Danny ends up dying after he's rescued. Even after the build up of perhaps envy, love and respect for the character. That wasn't predictable. He didn't "have" to die and they could of easily kept him alive as a symbol even. Maybe at first we wonder if he lives or dies, but after being rescued one would assume it's no longer about rescuing Danny it's about fighting the good fight. So he'd have no reason to be killed right after. Any member of this show can die around the next corner with how they expend each character. And how they make the show more about the story and the conflict of no power over its importance of characters. The characters are amplifiers to the storyline. But all expendable. Which keeps everyone on their feet and curious as to what will happen next. That's one reason I really like this show. It's a reason why I like The Walking Dead as well. Not knowing what to expect.
    Gotta give the show a chance to sprout. It's not being watched by millions of people just because it's on TV. It's a good show.

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  • Avatar of ionee24

    ionee24

    [17]May 16, 2013
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    Color me surprised, Charlie wasn't that bad in this week. The plot is still going downhill fast IMO, but the lead wasn't as annoying this time around (lets see how long that lasts).
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    watcher1006

    [19]May 28, 2013
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    As this show has progressed this season it's moved away from a unique premise of all the electricity being gone and has looked more and more like yet another post-apocalyptic drama of a dystopian society where national government has collapsed and small tribal bands and individual survivalists are the norm. Plenty of mechanical power to be found, it just happens to be in the hands of those who've reached a position of ruling by force. Remember the crossbows we saw early in the season? Now the action seems to be largely about guns and explosives and yes, mechanized vehicles. Maybe they can continue the show this way but there really isn't anything clever or new in how they are doing it.

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    palle007

    [20]May 28, 2013
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    watcher1006 wrote:
    but there really isn't anything clever or new in how they are doing it.


    Anything is possible. Maybe the technology is based on a crashed ufo...
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