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Official Discussion Thread: Persuasion (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of antdude

    antdude

    [21]Feb 19, 2010
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    I didn't like Valentine theme/subplot, but Lois was being funny. I did like the serious stuff. Next week's episode preview looked weird and gross.
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    game_man1

    [22]Feb 19, 2010
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    RustyBattleship wrote:

    Well, I don't know quite what to make of this episode. In some parts it was very funny (particularly with Lois) but other parts left me totally confused.

    Tess Mercer killed Jor-El? On a planet that was light years away? Is (or was) she actually a Kandorian that came to Earth as a nurse wound up on a tropical island watching Oliver Queen learning how to shoot a bow and arrow? And if she was a Kryptonian (as posted above) she should have had the same powers as Clark and his cousin (now a lizard on "V"). So she must have been a Kandorian, or something like that.

    Something is out of continuity here.

    Did I watch the wrong show or missed some dialogue from a previous show? The fight scene between Tess and Chloe was well done and the stunt doubles deserve a bonus. Tess' method of setting Zod up for her own execution (assisted suicide?) was rather erotic I suppose, but was it necessary? All she had to do was put her satellites into a degenerating orbit and have them burn up over the Pacific Ocean (but to block out the Sun they would have to be in a geo-physical orbit 25,000 miles up and would have taken some time).

    I'm not even going to post a score on this ep because I was, and still am, totally confused. So I'm going to go back and calculate the Metacentric height on the Battleship Iowa.



    well she didn't kill jor-el it was a kandorian. also the Jor-el they are referring to is the one who came from the orb and appeared a few episode ago, that's what they are talking about.
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    JordanElliot

    [23]Feb 20, 2010
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    RustyBattleship wrote:

    Well, I don't know quite what to make of this episode. In some parts it was very funny (particularly with Lois) but other parts left me totally confused.

    Tess Mercer killed Jor-El? On a planet that was light years away? Is (or was) she actually a Kandorian that came to Earth as a nurse wound up on a tropical island watching Oliver Queen learning how to shoot a bow and arrow? And if she was a Kryptonian (as posted above) she should have had the same powers as Clark and his cousin (now a lizard on "V"). So she must have been a Kandorian, or something like that.

    Something is out of continuity here.

    Did I watch the wrong show or missed some dialogue from a previous show? The fight scene between Tess and Chloe was well done and the stunt doubles deserve a bonus. Tess' method of setting Zod up for her own execution (assisted suicide?) was rather erotic I suppose, but was it necessary? All she had to do was put her satellites into a degenerating orbit and have them burn up over the Pacific Ocean (but to block out the Sun they would have to be in a geo-physical orbit 25,000 miles up and would have taken some time).

    I'm not even going to post a score on this ep because I was, and still am, totally confused. So I'm going to go back and calculate the Metacentric height on the Battleship Iowa.

    RustyB: I think you missed the episode where Jor-El wakes up to be a Kandorion clone look-a-like for that guy from the "Warlock" movies.

    ---

    I tried to submit a review; but either I screwed up, or there is some sort-of edit gueue: so i'll toss it here (just in case)

    ---

    Woot! almost thought he was going to fly

    What a Great Episode; Started off normally, went whimsical, then got Dark. Kept me glued to screen to see what was going to happen next. The Clark Seemed to finally Evolve! That determined transformation at the end, I was almost convinced he was going to Fly! But he did the next best thing. Dropped his **** footing" attitude and just nuked the Kandorian tower.

    Amazing, in shows you hardly ever see the Protagonist just take the most intelligent action for solving the problem. Like 'Indiana Jones' shooting that enemy instead for reaching for his whip. I think this episode had great pacing and variety and is wrapping up the Kandorian arc very well and limiting Zod's hammyness.

    Makes my hope for the future of Smallville as bright as Chloe's since the alteration of the time-line. Clark's new found determination and maturity, in addition to the series 9 good/Great episodes so far is very impressive. gogo Season 10

    Edited on 02/20/2010 2:39am
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  • Avatar of Kalel18

    Kalel18

    [24]Feb 20, 2010
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    Just to reiterate: Tess did not kill (clone)Jor-El. Nor did Zod. Zod believed that Tess actually did the dirty work, or at least he wanted Clark to believe that she did. Tess was being uncooperative, and he wanted her out of the way, so he figured he could kill two birds with one stone, so to speak. Have Clark do his dirty work for him, and subvert Clark at the same time.

    Zod obviously didn't know that it was Alia who killed Jor El till she was ratted-out. That poor girl just couldn't win. She gets killed twice! First Clark kills her in the barn (o.k. she fell on her sword), now Zod shoots her. Wait! If Zod shoots and kills her in the present, she never makes it to the future, and can never hitch a ride back with Lois...Never-mind, I'm not even going there.

    Well Clark finally realized that the simplest solution is often the best solution. I wondered how long it would take before he decided to destroy the towers. One long blast from Clark's heat vision and they removed the seasons's biggest plot hole! Time for plan B, Zod.

    I know I'm sounding sarcastic, as usual, but I really enjoyed this episode. Lois and Emile were both hilarious. Lois going "Suzy homemaker" and then prancing around in Mrs. Kent's wedding gown had me ROFL. When she mentioned engagement to Clark and they played a little of the "Jaws" theme over Clark's reaction, I nearly lost it.

    Another great "babe" fight. This time Chloe and Tess. Well choreographed for Smallville. Then Chloe, ironically, showing up in the nick of time to save Tess. Well done.

    I thought they did a great job of mixing the comic with the more serious elements. This may have been my favorite episode of the season.

    Edited on 02/20/2010 9:23am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Enthropii

    [25]Feb 20, 2010
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    Not a bad episode. Could have done without the Lois scenes though.
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  • Avatar of Morspeed

    Morspeed

    [26]Feb 20, 2010
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    Hated this episode. The only thing that was good was that it furtherd the plot. But other than that. Sucked. The episode was all over the place. From silly fun to dark and depressing. Could have done without Lois being persuaded to be a "traditional" women. Her dialouge was horrid "bring home the bacon", "remind you that you're the man"? I almost threw up. Clark's first scene with Chloe seemed weird. When did he become such a dick to her? Did I miss an episode? Not sure why Clark decided to destroy the tower now instead of doing it months ago. This episode essentailly gets rid of the future in Pandora completely. So I have no idea where they are going to go with this now.

    Only character that didn't annoy me was Tess. Ever since the break she has been underused quite a bit. Hope her character comes back strong.

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    Dewbak75

    [27]Feb 20, 2010
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    They've definitely been on a roll this season. I'm surprised they managed to fit so much Lois/Clark stuff into an episode with so much Clark/Kandorians stuff, nicely done. For the poster who asked earlier in the thread, this "gemstone" kryptonite is a part of the comics history, but not part of the current main DC timeline. Anytime they do more romantic comedy-type stuff with Clark and Lois it's a hoot. Tom and Erica have fantastic chemistry, it's a shame we're just now getting this stuff in Season 9. Chloe's still a little too hardcore for my taste, but she was more likeable in this episode, thankfully.

    I was sad to see Alia go, and not just because Monique Ganderton is so easy on the eyes(and boy, is she). I was intrigued by the reaction of the two female Kandorians when he gave them their new ID papers. With Zod it's all "get my powers so I can rule the world", but these two seemed the enjoy the idea of a normal, peaceful life as a regular part of society. And even after we learned that Alia was the one who killed Jor-El(didn't see that coming at ALL), I think Clark could've eventually found a way to forgive her for it. After all, it wasn't REALLY his father, and she was still blindly following Zod at that point. I know he was all wrathful against Tess when he though she did it, but her suspected motives were a lot more self-serving and twisted. I think if Alia had gone to Clark and confessed, showed her remorse, and not tried to weasel her way out of it, he would have shown her mercy.

    Tess' motives got a little more interesting in this episode, what with the revelation that she didn't know giving the Kandorians their powers meant Clark losing his. Turns out she wanted the whole squad of Kandorians with Clark as their leader. Between all of this and her apparent ties to Checkmate, I'm really starting to wonder what will become of her in the end. I wish the writers had written a less convoluted story arc for her since she first showed up. Cassidy Freeman's a better actress than the material she's been given.

    The two big heat-vision scenes were some of the more visually powerful ones we've gotten this season. When he went after Tess and lit that ring around them he was more menacing than I think he's ever been. I'm curious to see how Tess acts around him the next time we see them together. And the scene at the end when he brought the towers down was fantastic. One of the coolest displays of his abilities since he flew back in the Season 4 premiere. I get that the producers are on a limited budget and can only show so much of that stuff, but once in a while they need to remind the audience that this *is* the future Superman we're watching. Although now I'm really curious what the final conflict between Clark and Zod is going to be. I can only assume he'll find another way to get his powers. And for the love of Rao, will Clark finally learn to fly by the end of this year?

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    dragon22a

    [28]Feb 20, 2010
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    Not a bad episode but I really could have done without the lois dancing around and acting like a fool parts.

    Still, there was a good amount of character development in the episode. The scene with the two kryptonian girls show that not all of Zods soldiers are willing to follow him blindly and some are more than willing to simply live amongst the humans.

    Zod is willing to do almost anything but is still bound by his own sense of honor. His killing of his own soldier to avenge Jor-El, someone he saw as a brother to him, and then berating Clark for not taking the responsibility himself was great. You have to admit, Zod wants his powers and will kill for them, but he also does this for what he believes to be the future of his people. But his soldier killed one of his friends and he did what Clark would not do. However, part of me still wonders if Zod killer her because she killed Jor-el or because she was turning her back on him.

    Clark also finally stepped up and became proactive by destroying the towers. He showed Zod that on this planet, he is the one with the power and that Zod needs to realize that before he tries to manipulate him or go behind his back again. The only way that scene could have been better would have been Zod looking up at his destroyed towers and seeing Clark fly away showing that he is truly kryptonian.

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    XplantekX

    [29]Feb 20, 2010
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    Well IMO that wasn't a bad episode. I like the Lois scenes, I like the CLois scenes, what I don't like about them is the way they kiss each other... Is it only strange for me? This type of Kryptonite is funny... I didn't really understand why did it change Clark at the beginning and at the end? And is it just me, but Clark's heat vision seemed extra powerful in this ep. Or is it just because it wasn't shown as a red laser but a flame laser? Ohh and the way Lois said "mom" cracked me up
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    RustyBattleship

    [30]Feb 20, 2010
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    Just want to throw in a bad (patriotic?) reaction about how the towers were destroyed.

    I expected they would go up in flames and continue burning until all that was left was the charred steel framework. But my heart sank when they collapsed almost exactly like the Twin Trade Towers in New York after suicide attacks by hi-jacked passenger planes.

    I know, as an engineering type, that's probably the way they would have actually destroyed themselves as the steel would get too hot to withstand the compression loads supporting the rest of the building. Therefore the FX of their collapse actually was accurate. I just get a bit peeved when somebody copies a horrible tragedy for the sake of entertainment. Look at the Avatar of me standing by one of the gun barrels of the Battleship USS New Jersey (BB-62) while coming into home port (where I worked for 39 years) after gunnery trials. That 39 years with the US Navy with 7 years Army Reserves thrown in (tank crewman) and presently First Vice Commander of an American Legion Post has probably made me too over defensive.

    I know the show is produced in Canada (the best common border neighbor anyone could ask for) and they properly display the American flag even having one on the wall in Clark's barn loft. But the FX department needs to be a tad more sensitive to something us Yankees are a "bit touchy" about.

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    Kalel18

    [31]Feb 20, 2010
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    Dewbak75 wrote:

    They've definitely been on a roll this season. I'm surprised they managed to fit so much Lois/Clark stuff into an episode with so much Clark/Kandorians stuff, nicely done. For the poster who asked earlier in the thread, this "gemstone" kryptonite is a part of the comics history, but not part of the current main DC timeline. Anytime they do more romantic comedy-type stuff with Clark and Lois it's a hoot. Tom and Erica have fantastic chemistry, it's a shame we're just now getting this stuff in Season 9. Chloe's still a little too hardcore for my taste, but she was more likeable in this episode, thankfully.

    I was sad to see Alia go, and not just because Monique Ganderton is so easy on the eyes(and boy, is she). I was intrigued by the reaction of the two female Kandorians when he gave them their new ID papers. With Zod it's all "get my powers so I can rule the world", but these two seemed the enjoy the idea of a normal, peaceful life as a regular part of society. And even after we learned that Alia was the one who killed Jor-El(didn't see that coming at ALL), I think Clark could've eventually found a way to forgive her for it. After all, it wasn't REALLY his father, and she was still blindly following Zod at that point. I know he was all wrathful against Tess when he though she did it, but her suspected motives were a lot more self-serving and twisted. I think if Alia had gone to Clark and confessed, showed her remorse, and not tried to weasel her way out of it, he would have shown her mercy.

    Tess' motives got a little more interesting in this episode, what with the revelation that she didn't know giving the Kandorians their powers meant Clark losing his. Turns out she wanted the whole squad of Kandorians with Clark as their leader. Between all of this and her apparent ties to Checkmate, I'm really starting to wonder what will become of her in the end. I wish the writers had written a less convoluted story arc for her since she first showed up. Cassidy Freeman's a better actress than the material she's been given.

    The two big heat-vision scenes were some of the more visually powerful ones we've gotten this season. When he went after Tess and lit that ring around them he was more menacing than I think he's ever been. I'm curious to see how Tess acts around him the next time we see them together. And the scene at the end when he brought the towers down was fantastic. One of the coolest displays of his abilities since he flew back in the Season 4 premiere. I get that the producers are on a limited budget and can only show so much of that stuff, but once in a while they need to remind the audience that this *is* the future Superman we're watching. Although now I'm really curious what the final conflict between Clark and Zod is going to be. I can only assume he'll find another way to get his powers. And for the love of Rao, will Clark finally learn to fly by the end of this year?

    Great analysis.

    It's funny, I was hating the show at the begining of the season. I thought the way the Zod story arc was playing-out, Metallo, and the whole Oliver Queen self-loathing story were all awful. But there were many who thought season nine was great from the get-go. Now the writers seem to be getting their act together, finally, IMO, and I'm enjoying the show again. Like you, I love the chemistry between Tom and Erica. I find the comic elements with Lois to be such a hoot, yet others have stated their displeasure and thought those moments awful. Just goes to show - different strokes for different folks.

    One thing troubles me from this episode though. I'm not sure if I caught the proper meaning or intent from the writers in the scene where Zod and Clark have their confrontation over Jor El. I was assuming that Zod had somehow turned the hypnotism trick on Clark, convincing him to go after Tess, otherwise, how could it be that he is so enraged that he is about to kill her? I know that they have been explooring Clark's dark side in season 9, but a willingness to kill Tess, despite what he believes she did, and based only on what a not-so-trustworthy Zod says, goes way beyond Clarks morality. If he was merely convinced by Zod's persuasiveness, without the kryptonite gem stone's hypnotic effect, he is really on a disturbingly dark path. I'll buy it if he was hypnotized, but if not, I think the writers are taking "dark" Clark way too far.

    Still I thought it was a great episode.

    Edited on 02/20/2010 12:25pm
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    Kalel18

    [32]Feb 20, 2010
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    RustyBattleship wrote:

    Just want to throw in a bad (patriotic?) reaction about how the towers were destroyed.

    I expected they would go up in flames and continue burning until all that was left was the charred steel framework. But my heart sank when they collapsed almost exactly like the Twin Trade Towers in New York after suicide attacks by hi-jacked passenger planes.

    The scene definitely bore a resemblence to the World Trade Center tragedy. It's interesting that they used that type of image. I wonder if they had considered the significance? My real concern though was about collateral damage and innocent bystanders. I hope Clark did not remain on the rooftop, admiring his demolition job, for long. Let's hope he sped around removing potential victims from the area. I mean Zod and the interview team were standing just below the towers, from all appearances. And who knows how many other people were close by.
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    enervator

    [33]Feb 20, 2010
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    Kalel18 wrote:

    One thing troubles me from this episode though. I'm not sure if I caught the proper meaning or intent from the writers in the scene where Zod and Clark have their confrontation over Jor El. I was assuming that Zod had somehow turned the hypnotism trick on Clark, convincing him to go after Tess, otherwise, how could it be that he is so enraged that he is about to kill her? I know that they have been explooring Clark's dark side in season 9, but a willingness to kill Tess, despite what he believes she did, and based only on what a not-so-trustworthy Zod says, goes way beyond Clarks morality. If he was merely convinced by Zod's persuasiveness, without the kryptonite gem stone's hypnotic effect, he is really on a disturbingly dark path. I'll buy it if he was hypnotized, but if not, I think the writers are taking "dark" Clark way too far.

    I think Clark said something along the lines of wanting to be more like Zod, so he in effect used his persuasion powers on himself. At that point, he couldn't help but proceed as Zod would have done.

    Edited on 02/20/2010 12:36pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Kalel18

    Kalel18

    [34]Feb 20, 2010
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    That makes sense. Thanks.
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    KingofIPirates

    [35]Feb 20, 2010
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    Kalel18 wrote:
    My real concern though was about collateral damage and innocent bystanders. I hope Clark did not remain on the rooftop, admiring his demolition job, for long. Let's hope he sped around removing potential victims from the area. I mean Zod and the interview team were standing just below the towers, from all appearances. And who knows how many other people were close by.
    I was thinking that as well; not to mention the collateral damage to the surrounding area should be significant.
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    Dewbak75

    [36]Feb 20, 2010
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    Kalel18 wrote:

    One thing troubles me from this episode though. I'm not sure if I caught the proper meaning or intent from the writers in the scene where Zod and Clark have their confrontation over Jor El. I was assuming that Zod had somehow turned the hypnotism trick on Clark, convincing him to go after Tess, otherwise, how could it be that he is so enraged that he is about to kill her? I know that they have been explooring Clark's dark side in season 9, but a willingness to kill Tess, despite what he believes she did, and based only on what a not-so-trustworthy Zod says, goes way beyond Clarks morality. If he was merely convinced by Zod's persuasiveness, without the kryptonite gem stone's hypnotic effect, he is really on a disturbingly dark path. I'll buy it if he was hypnotized, but if not, I think the writers are taking "dark" Clark way too far.

    Still I thought it was a great episode.

    Actually, I don't think Zod turned the gemstone kryptonite back on Clark. He told Clark that Tess killed Jor-El because that's who he thought the killer was. As for the severity of Clark's reaction, I think that's just how far he'd been pushed by everything that had been going on.

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    dantheman18999

    [37]Feb 20, 2010
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    i have always loved this show....just one tip though. never have lois dance again. get clark to burn something if you need to fill in time.
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    Dewbak75

    [38]Feb 20, 2010
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    Dewbak75 wrote:
    Kalel18 wrote:

    One thing troubles me from this episode though. I'm not sure if I caught the proper meaning or intent from the writers in the scene where Zod and Clark have their confrontation over Jor El. I was assuming that Zod had somehow turned the hypnotism trick on Clark, convincing him to go after Tess, otherwise, how could it be that he is so enraged that he is about to kill her? I know that they have been explooring Clark's dark side in season 9, but a willingness to kill Tess, despite what he believes she did, and based only on what a not-so-trustworthy Zod says, goes way beyond Clarks morality. If he was merely convinced by Zod's persuasiveness, without the kryptonite gem stone's hypnotic effect, he is really on a disturbingly dark path. I'll buy it if he was hypnotized, but if not, I think the writers are taking "dark" Clark way too far.

    Still I thought it was a great episode.

    Actually, I don't think Zod turned the gemstone kryptonite back on Clark. He told Clark that Tess killed Jor-El because that's who he thought the killer was. As for the severity of Clark's reaction, I think that's just how far he'd been pushed by everything that had been going on.

    Ok, looks like I had it wrong. I rewatched the Clark/Zod confrontation, and it looks like the gem-K kicks in whenever he expresses his desires out loud, so when he told Zod "you don't think sometimes I want to be a killer like you?", the gem-K allowed Clark to put the psychic whammy on himself. When he got Zod to say who he thought Jor-El's killer was, Zod's eyes glowed. When Clark went homicidal, only his own eyes glowed.

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    jwgrlrrajn

    [39]Feb 20, 2010
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    I thought the episode was fun, but couldn't Clark have been nicer to Lois and eaten the roast? Surely his teeth are strong enough to do it.

    I was rather weirded out during the scene where Lois was dancing around like a fook (that's a cross between a freak and a kook for those not in the know). The music didn't help things either.

    I absolutely loved the part where Lois starts telling him about the engagement, and they start playing a Jaws type music.

    Other little bits that made me smile were Tess getting thrown at least 15 feet away onto the gravel, and Clark sabotaging the towers. (well, I smiled until I realized that he just started a 9/11 ripoff. I'm just going to assume he's smart enough to go save the people he endangered, but this being Smallville, you never know.)

    I do want to know who in their right mind crushes up rocks for people to use as Pixie Dust. That makes no sense whatsover.

    EDIT: Other than that, why does Clark say that Lois is one of the most trustworthy people he knows, when he quite obviously doesn't trust her enough to tell her that he's the Blur? Seriously, Clark would have a lot less problems if he would trust people who have proven that they're trustworthy.

    Case in point, Lex didn't tell anyone about Clark's secret while he was in the asylum, but Clark didn't trust him enough to tell him after he lost that memory. (somehow, I think the events of Arctic never would have happened if he had told Lex back in season three)

    Edited on 02/20/2010 8:23pm
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    Kalel18

    [40]Feb 20, 2010
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    O.K., as long as it was the kryptonite working on him and he hasn't gone psycho on his own. He's already thrown Tess across a room, and nearly asphyxiated her, grabbing her and lifting her by the neck, not to mention treating Chloe like his beyatch. I think that is quite dark enough.

    Thanks -K
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