Smallville Forums

The CW (ended 2011)

Official Discussion Thread: Persuasion (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [41]Feb 20, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    jwgrlrrajn wrote:

    I do want to know who in their right mind crushes up rocks for people to use as Pixie Dust. That makes no sense whatsover.
    .. Junkies?
    jwgrlrrajn wrote:

    EDIT: Other than that, why does Clark say that Lois is one of the most trustworthy people he knows, when he quite obviously doesn't trust her enough to tell her that he's the Blur?
    Meh, it was a 'white lie' commonly used in relationships that acts as a temporary solution or band-aid to a potential problem or underlying issue. Look at it this way, if he told her he didn't believe she was trustworthy you know he's going to have to be begging for forgiveness the next few days and that's the upside.
    jwgrlrrajn wrote:

    Seriously, Clark would have a lot less problems if he would trust people who have proven that they're trustworthy.
    She actually blurted out in that same scene why she is potentially untrustworthy when she made it known to the public that she had been in contact with the blur.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jwgrlrrajn

    jwgrlrrajn

    [42]Feb 20, 2010
    • member since: 07/14/07
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 2,915
    Okay, so perhaps my statement doesn't apply to Lois, but the point still stands
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of enervator

    enervator

    [43]Feb 21, 2010
    • member since: 07/05/05
    • level: 38
    • rank: Squarepants
    • posts: 10,169
    Dewbak75 wrote:
    Dewbak75 wrote:
    Kalel18 wrote:

    One thing troubles me from this episode though. I'm not sure if I caught the proper meaning or intent from the writers in the scene where Zod and Clark have their confrontation over Jor El. I was assuming that Zod had somehow turned the hypnotism trick on Clark, convincing him to go after Tess, otherwise, how could it be that he is so enraged that he is about to kill her? I know that they have been explooring Clark's dark side in season 9, but a willingness to kill Tess, despite what he believes she did, and based only on what a not-so-trustworthy Zod says, goes way beyond Clarks morality. If he was merely convinced by Zod's persuasiveness, without the kryptonite gem stone's hypnotic effect, he is really on a disturbingly dark path. I'll buy it if he was hypnotized, but if not, I think the writers are taking "dark" Clark way too far.

    Still I thought it was a great episode.

    Actually, I don't think Zod turned the gemstone kryptonite back on Clark. He told Clark that Tess killed Jor-El because that's who he thought the killer was. As for the severity of Clark's reaction, I think that's just how far he'd been pushed by everything that had been going on.

    Ok, looks like I had it wrong. I rewatched the Clark/Zod confrontation, and it looks like the gem-K kicks in whenever he expresses his desires out loud, so when he told Zod "you don't think sometimes I want to be a killer like you?", the gem-K allowed Clark to put the psychic whammy on himself. When he got Zod to say who he thought Jor-El's killer was, Zod's eyes glowed. When Clark went homicidal, only his own eyes glowed.

    Or you could have just read post #33 in which I explained it...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of shadowspy24

    shadowspy24

    [44]Feb 21, 2010
    • member since: 07/01/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,226
    enervator wrote:
    Dewbak75 wrote:
    Dewbak75 wrote:
    Kalel18 wrote:

    One thing troubles me from this episode though. I'm not sure if I caught the proper meaning or intent from the writers in the scene where Zod and Clark have their confrontation over Jor El. I was assuming that Zod had somehow turned the hypnotism trick on Clark, convincing him to go after Tess, otherwise, how could it be that he is so enraged that he is about to kill her? I know that they have been explooring Clark's dark side in season 9, but a willingness to kill Tess, despite what he believes she did, and based only on what a not-so-trustworthy Zod says, goes way beyond Clarks morality. If he was merely convinced by Zod's persuasiveness, without the kryptonite gem stone's hypnotic effect, he is really on a disturbingly dark path. I'll buy it if he was hypnotized, but if not, I think the writers are taking "dark" Clark way too far.

    Still I thought it was a great episode.

    Actually, I don't think Zod turned the gemstone kryptonite back on Clark. He told Clark that Tess killed Jor-El because that's who he thought the killer was. As for the severity of Clark's reaction, I think that's just how far he'd been pushed by everything that had been going on.

    Ok, looks like I had it wrong. I rewatched the Clark/Zod confrontation, and it looks like the gem-K kicks in whenever he expresses his desires out loud, so when he told Zod "you don't think sometimes I want to be a killer like you?", the gem-K allowed Clark to put the psychic whammy on himself. When he got Zod to say who he thought Jor-El's killer was, Zod's eyes glowed. When Clark went homicidal, only his own eyes glowed.

    Or you could have just read post #33 in which I explained it...



    Chloe then reversed it using the green-k at the end which is why he didn't kill her at the end. However I don't remember him telling her about the gemstone kryptonite at any point, maybe Emile told her. Also I guess it was pretty obvious to figure out that green k would be the cure.

    On a sidenote though it's funny how Lois never loses her memory if she doesn't find out about Clark's powers. If Clark somehow told Lois about his powers you can bet that she would have lost her memory at the end although to be honest it was better that she remembered because it was kind of getting old that she keeps losing her memory.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of XplantekX

    XplantekX

    [45]Feb 21, 2010
    • member since: 02/25/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 222
    jwgrlrrajn wrote:

    I thought the episode was fun, but couldn't Clark have been nicer to Lois and eaten the roast? Surely his teeth are strong enough to do it.

    I was rather weirded out during the scene where Lois was dancing around like a fook (that's a cross between a freak and a kook for those not in the know). The music didn't help things either.

    I absolutely loved the part where Lois starts telling him about the engagement, and they start playing a Jaws type music.

    Other little bits that made me smile were Tess getting thrown at least 15 feet away onto the gravel, and Clark sabotaging the towers. (well, I smiled until I realized that he just started a 9/11 ripoff. I'm just going to assume he's smart enough to go save the people he endangered, but this being Smallville, you never know.)

    I do want to know who in their right mind crushes up rocks for people to use as Pixie Dust. That makes no sense whatsover.

    EDIT: Other than that, why does Clark say that Lois is one of the most trustworthy people he knows, when he quite obviously doesn't trust her enough to tell her that he's the Blur? Seriously, Clark would have a lot less problems if he would trust people who have proven that they're trustworthy.

    Case in point, Lex didn't tell anyone about Clark's secret while he was in the asylum, but Clark didn't trust him enough to tell him after he lost that memory. (somehow, I think the events of Arctic never would have happened if he had told Lex back in season three)

    It's not only about trusting in someone, but also about the desire to keep someone in safe. Sure when he's judging the decision to tell anyone his secret he is complained about the possibility of betrayal BUT he's mostly considered about the person's safety!

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of pgsuperfan

    pgsuperfan

    [46]Feb 21, 2010
    • member since: 02/04/06
    • level: 25
    • rank: Coconut Phone
    • posts: 4,361
    I thought Lois looked really great in thewedding dress
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of qpal789456123

    qpal789456123

    [47]Feb 21, 2010
    • member since: 04/15/05
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 1
    Does anyone know the end song that plays when Clark is destroying the tower??
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [48]Feb 21, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    Apparently it's not a 'real song', just one composed by louis febre who does a lot of Smallville music.
    Edited on 02/21/2010 11:38am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of NewKleer

    NewKleer

    [49]Feb 21, 2010
    • member since: 08/02/05
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 5
    going by memory, but i thought it sounded a bit like Linkin Park - What I've Done
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Enthropii

    Enthropii

    [50]Feb 22, 2010
    • member since: 08/10/06
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 4,108
    NewKleer wrote:
    going by memory, but i thought it sounded a bit like Linkin Park - What I've Done


    After Transformers 2, the only way Linkin Park could sink any lower would be to do music for Smallville. Lol.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RecLuses

    RecLuses

    [51]Feb 22, 2010
    • member since: 07/26/03
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 2

    Not a very good episode imo. Good thing was that finally Clark decided to do something about Zod's plan of world domination. I mean the guy runs around yelling 'I'm building a solar tower that will block the sun, blocking Kal'El's powers and giving me mine! And you can't stop me!'

    If it had been Lex Luthor he was ranting to and not Tess Merser, Lex would've put a bullet in his head a long time ago.

    Kind of sad that the guitar music in the end is just a composition and not a real song would've loved to listen to it.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of alirk

    alirk

    [52]Feb 22, 2010
    • member since: 10/15/05
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 3,530
    I liked this eppy. But one question: Why all the Lois hating? I thought she was pretty amusing in this eppy...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of chicamusica12

    chicamusica12

    [53]Feb 22, 2010
    • member since: 01/11/09
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 630
    So I wasn't the only one who thought he was gonna fly? good lol but the fact that he actually did something to stop Zod's plan instead of waiting it out made me applaud...then quickly stop because my mom was lookin at me funny. and anyone have a link to the Clark/Jaws theme thing? I missed that part!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of chrisjen84

    chrisjen84

    [54]Feb 22, 2010
    • member since: 02/22/07
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 32
    I enjoyed this episode. Loved the Clark and Lois moments as well as Clark taking down the tower, this was probably my favorite part.Clark trapping Tess in the ring of fire and the Chloe and Tess fight were interesting. Chloe did not get the upper hand in that fight. I thought the funeral was beautifully done.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Enthropii

    Enthropii

    [55]Feb 22, 2010
    • member since: 08/10/06
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 4,108
    I like that Clark's finally grown a pair. Now, if he'd only fly...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dman_dustin

    dman_dustin

    [56]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 03/26/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 2,287

    alirk wrote:
    I liked this eppy. But one question: Why all the Lois hating? I thought she was pretty amusing in this eppy...

    I agree, while I found the dancing scene awkward, it was still pretty funny.

    And I don't see how it was unnecessary. Lois was affected by a spell, I think that gives her the right to go "crazy"

    You may argue that Lois was being over-dramatic, but that was the whole point, it's like some of you don't even understand it, so you say it was horrible and unnecessary.

    If Lois acting the way she was, is apparently unnecesary then anything else dealiing with the subject was unnecessary.

    1. Chloe being overprotective

    2. Emil being laid back

    3. Clark trying to kill Tess, because he was affected by his own temporary new power.

    They might as well have written an entirely different episode an ignored the concept of gem kryptonite (or whatever you want to call it).

    Edited on 02/23/2010 5:25am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Enthropii

    Enthropii

    [57]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 08/10/06
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 4,108
    dman_dustin wrote:

    1. Chloe being overprotective


    Interpretive plot, a glimpse of how she's be when she finally goes off the deep end. A very real possibility.

    dman_dustin wrote:

    2. Emil being laid back


    A significant consequence of Clark's new ability and a plot device to explain why he doesn't just keep himself permanently pixie dust. After all, fighting crime would be so much easier if the criminals would listen to him.

    dman_dustin wrote:

    3. Clark trying to kill Tess, because he was affected by his own temporary new power.


    Interesting thing here, Clark's new "ability" allowed him to overwrite anybody's willpower and make them do as he wished. Maybe, the pixie dust was allowing his own desires to overwrite his willpower and restraint. Anybody who has read the comics or watched the animated series can tell you how close Clark has come to killing.

    Basically, all of these served a real purpose. The Lois scenes were purely comic relief. And not a very intelligent one at that.

    And before anyone starts ranting about the plot moving Clois forward, please get real. The scenes in Warrior which displayed Clark's dedication to Lois to be so strong to be able to fend of magic, was a sign of moving things forward. Lois' absolute trust in his honesty was a step forward.

    This was a chance for the writers to have a go at writing something out of Seinfeld because they weren't good enough for that show.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kalel512

    kalel512

    [58]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 09/13/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 3

    I actually enjoyed the episode. I thought the premise was a bit lame, but the follow through was excellent. Probably one of the better endings to a Smallville episode in recent history. The Kryptonian funeral was quite moving and you could tell that Zod did genuinely care for his fallen soldier. I cheered when Clark took down the towers. He finally became a man of action and showed Zod once and for all that Earth is not their place to rule.

    I did however find issue with a few things on Superman Homepage in regards to "Persuasion". One of their Smallville reviewers (Neal Bailey) equated Clark, flat out, to a modern day terrorist (akin to members of the Taliban and the psychopath that crashed a plane into the IRS building in Austin) which I found to be ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!! In NO WAY is Clark Kent a terrorist for taking action against a people who are hell-bent on taking innocent lives and our planet from us. His "rationalization" for his "argument" was he "didn't check to see that people weren't in the building" and various other diatribes.

    Due to my asbolute rage towards Neal Bailey, I felt this was the only forum to present my argument where I would be able to say what needed to be said....

    To quote Mr. Bailey:

    "At the same time my gut tells me that any show that would have SUPERMAN blow up TWIN TOWERS in a city that is the COMIC ANALOGUE OF NEW YORK and then watch as they BURN and FALL without any effort toward saving innocents, and present it as HEROIC?"

    WTF!! In the long history of Smallville (if Mr. Bailey has ever actually paid any attention) Clark has stood for one moral absolute: THE PRESERVATION OF ALL HUMAN LIFE. Why, in the name of all that is holy, would Clark Kent suddenly throw everything away and kill innocent construction workers, Kandorians, and civilians to destroy a building? For Pete's sake he wouldn't even take Doomsday/Davis Bloome's life even after he discovered he was a KILLER not to mention he CONDEMNED ZOD FOR KILLING AILIA!! Clark said and I quote "She didn't deserve to die." even when he learned that she had killed Jor-El. Would you really think he would take the risk of destroying Zod's Solar Tower if there was any risk of injury to ANYONE?? A controlled demolition of any structure in the middle of a huge city is quite common and very possible. It happens ALL THE TIME!! Do you realize Clark was at Watchtower diligently looking over the digital model of the towers (oh I don't know to perhaps find the best way to demolish it without hurting anyone)? Zod's towers are analogous of the World Trade Center? Really? Not only do they not resemble them at all other than being twin structures, they have a completely different design aesthetic, shape, layout, and structure. Talk about grasping at straws. As far as Smallville's Metropolis being a "comic analogue of New York", Mr. Bailey needs to check his facts. Clark has visited New York City before, it exists seperately from Metropolis in its proper place in New York state. Clark visited Virgil Swann there in "Rosetta" and has been mentioned in passing many other times. The sequence was not intended to be PERVERSE SYMBOLISM (only someone desperately trying to make it so would equate it to that) it was about Clark finally taking action against those who would destroy us. Metropolis is in Kansas. Period. Clark executed a controlled demolition on an empty building that is a device that would be used to enslave humanity. Period. It was heroic. Period, end of story.

    I had family (my great uncle who was very close to me) die on 9/11 in New York at the World Trade Center. I absolutely detest anyone who would compare the closing events of "Persuasion" to that horrific event. Superman (and by extension Clark) is an AMERICAN symbol of hope and peace; something to believe in. The fact that a Superman fan would EVER compare Clark to the people who were willing to destroy American lives out of some kind of sick, twisted religious ideology makes me want to vomit.

    Mr. Bailey, the next time you choose to speak for those of us who were directly affected by 9/11 by comparing Superman to the Taliban, take a deep breath, count to ten, and throw yourself into a wall. You were just searching for reasons to bash the show (as some do) just to justify your measly existence to the internet and the fact that you used the tragic loss of thousands of American lives to attempt to justify your argument makes you lower than trash.

    After reading this atrocious review, I have removed Superman Homepage from my favorites and will never subscribe to their site or view it ever again. I suggest those of you who agree to do the same. Those who don't...well...whatever.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of alirk

    alirk

    [59]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 10/15/05
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 3,530
    kalel512 wrote:

    I actually enjoyed the episode. I thought the premise was a bit lame, but the follow through was excellent. Probably one of the better endings to a Smallville episode in recent history. The Kryptonian funeral was quite moving and you could tell that Zod did genuinely care for his fallen soldier. I cheered when Clark took down the towers. He finally became a man of action and showed Zod once and for all that Earth is not their place to rule.

    I did however find issue with a few things on Superman Homepage in regards to "Persuasion". One of their Smallville reviewers (Neal Bailey) equated Clark, flat out, to a modern day terrorist (akin to members of the Taliban and the psychopath that crashed a plane into the IRS building in Austin) which I found to be ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!! In NO WAY is Clark Kent a terrorist for taking action against a people who are hell-bent on taking innocent lives and our planet from us. His "rationalization" for his "argument" was he "didn't check to see that people weren't in the building" and various other diatribes.

    Due to my asbolute rage towards Neal Bailey, I felt this was the only forum to present my argument where I would be able to say what needed to be said....

    To quote Mr. Bailey:

    "At the same time my gut tells me that any show that would have SUPERMAN blow up TWIN TOWERS in a city that is the COMIC ANALOGUE OF NEW YORK and then watch as they BURN and FALL without any effort toward saving innocents, and present it as HEROIC?"

    WTF!! In the long history of Smallville (if Mr. Bailey has ever actually paid any attention) Clark has stood for one moral absolute: THE PRESERVATION OF ALL HUMAN LIFE. Why, in the name of all that is holy, would Clark Kent suddenly throw everything away and kill innocent construction workers, Kandorians, and civilians to destroy a building? For Pete's sake he wouldn't even take Doomsday/Davis Bloome's life even after he discovered he was a KILLER not to mention he CONDEMNED ZOD FOR KILLING AILIA!! Clark said and I quote "She didn't deserve to die." even when he learned that she had killed Jor-El. Would you really think he would take the risk of destroying Zod's Solar Tower if there was any risk of injury to ANYONE?? A controlled demolition of any structure in the middle of a huge city is quite common and very possible. It happens ALL THE TIME!! Do you realize Clark was at Watchtower diligently looking over the digital model of the towers (oh I don't know to perhaps find the best way to demolish it without hurting anyone)? Zod's towers are analogous of the World Trade Center? Really? Not only do they not resemble them at all other than being twin structures, they have a completely different design aesthetic, shape, layout, and structure. Talk about grasping at straws. As far as Smallville's Metropolis being a "comic analogue of New York", Mr. Bailey needs to check his facts. Clark has visited New York City before, it exists seperately from Metropolis in its proper place in New York state. Clark visited Virgil Swann there in "Rosetta" and has been mentioned in passing many other times. The sequence was not intended to be PERVERSE SYMBOLISM (only someone desperately trying to make it so would equate it to that) it was about Clark finally taking action against those who would destroy us. Metropolis is in Kansas. Period. Clark executed a controlled demolition on an empty building that is a device that would be used to enslave humanity. Period. It was heroic. Period, end of story.

    I had family (my great uncle who was very close to me) die on 9/11 in New York at the World Trade Center. I absolutely detest anyone who would compare the closing events of "Persuasion" to that horrific event. Superman (and by extension Clark) is an AMERICAN symbol of hope and peace; something to believe in. The fact that a Superman fan would EVER compare Clark to the people who were willing to destroy American lives out of some kind of sick, twisted religious ideology makes me want to vomit.

    Mr. Bailey, the next time you choose to speak for those of us who were directly affected by 9/11 by comparing Superman to the Taliban, take a deep breath, count to ten, and throw yourself into a wall. You were just searching for reasons to bash the show (as some do) just to justify your measly existence to the internet and the fact that you used the tragic loss of thousands of American lives to attempt to justify your argument makes you lower than trash.

    After reading this atrocious review, I have removed Superman Homepage from my favorites and will never subscribe to their site or view it ever again. I suggest those of you who agree to do the same. Those who don't...well...whatever.

    Very well put. I 100% agree

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dman_dustin

    dman_dustin

    [60]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 03/26/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 2,287

    Enthropii wrote:
    The Lois scenes were purely comic relief. And not a very intelligent one at that. And before anyone starts ranting about the plot moving Clois forward, please get real. The scenes in Warrior which displayed Clark's dedication to Lois to be so strong to be able to fend of magic, was a sign of moving things forward. Lois' absolute trust in his honesty was a step forward. This was a chance for the writers to have a go at writing something out of Seinfeld because they weren't good enough for that show.

    My point was Lois got affected just the same, so saying that the Lois scene was inconsequential means every other meteor affected people were also inconsequential.

    Remember, Lois was first affected, so not seeing how she would react would've been stupid, they may as well let the wish granting pixie dust falls on Clark while he was at the Watch Tower. But it didn't, it started when Lois and Clark were "investigating" on Valentine's day which led to the incident in the planet, so therefore it wouldn't have made any sense to not show Lois being affected.

    Which then leads me to ask, why must everything be essential to the plot? If Clark wants a doughnut for example, I really don't see why he can't, without being criticized for wasting a minute getting a doughnut.

    The whole point of the Lois scene was, she thought she was proposed to and being infected the way she was, led to those actions. Not seeing those actions would've resulted in a plot hole. For example one minute Clark reassures them that they'll be together forever, and then suddenly everything is back to normal. There's some awkward scene between Lois and Clark. I mean the fact they actually showed Lois's reaction at all is very impressive. Sure it was silly or stupid (for you), but Lois was under a spell, that should allow her the freedom to do these crazy things.

    Edited on 02/23/2010 12:46pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.