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The CW (ended 2011)

Official Discussion Thread: Persuasion (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Enthropii

    Enthropii

    [61]Feb 23, 2010
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    dman_dustin wrote:

    My point was Lois got affected just the same, so saying that the Lois scene was inconsequential means every other meteor affected people were also inconsequential.

    Remember, Lois was first affected, so not seeing how she would react would've been stupid, they may as well let the wish granting pixie dust falls on Clark while he was at the Watch Tower. But it didn't, it started when Lois and Clark were "investigating" on Valentine's day which led to the incident in the planet, so therefore it wouldn't have made any sense to not show Lois being affected.

    Which then leads me to ask, why must everything be essential to the plot? If Clark wants a doughnut for example, I really don't see why he can't, without being criticized for wasting a minute getting a doughnut.

    The whole point of the Lois scene was, she thought she was proposed to and being infected the way she was, led to those actions. Not seeing those actions would've resulted in a plot hole. For example one minute Clark reassures them that they'll be together forever, and then suddenly everything is back to normal. There's some awkward scene between Lois and Clark. I mean the fact they actually showed Lois's reaction at all is very impressive. Sure it was silly or stupid (for you), but Lois was under a spell, that should allow her the freedom to do these crazy things.



    I'm not saying that it was just Lois acting stupidly. I'm saying that the entire sub-plot (if it even deserves to be called that) was unnecessary. See, the thing is, since Lois is is doing this people are saying "oh she's cute" or "oh it's funny". But what if it had been Lana? Everyone would be outraged. Pissed off. Completely mad.

    But the fact remains, the plots were unnecessary, Lois was there for the sake of being there, and given the possible heaviness of the episode's theme, the Lois sequences felt out of place and undermining to the essential plot. Clark could have said many other things that could have given Lois a better plot.

    Maybe she's driven to an unsafe extent of finding out the Blur's identity. Maybe they could have her becoming too inquisitive and she could stumble upon Checkmate of even perhaps witness Clark speaking to Zod. Many things could have been done with Lois. But just like how the producers overused Lana in making her the plot point of everything, they seem to have decided that Lois is going to be (as a good friend of mine and a fellow intelligent forumer would say) the red-headed stepchild.

    Why have her dancing in a cliched, over the top plot line like a blibbering idiot? Could they not have brought out something dark or consequential laden? This was the easy way out. The producers weren't taking this seriously enough. They don't respect the weight and significance of this episode enough to give a good, serious and witty treatment. Instead they went with the cheap laugh... that is if people even laughed.

    And just to back up, although I agree that the entire Lois subplot was incredibly stupid and could have doubled as Erica Duarnce's audition for the retarded version of mad Men, the fact remains that they didn't need the dance scene. The plot was classic Smallville retardation. The dance scene? As I said, it feels like someone couldn't get a job writing a sitcom so they ended up here.

    And just a final though people: If Lana had not left the show and Lois was still a simple recurring character, do you think this was what would have been done? No. Lana would have been at the middle of the story. She'd be battling Tess, she'd be stalking Clark. She'd have stolen his heat vision and destroyed Zod's towers simply because she's Lana. But enter lois, and are they giving her the respectable treatment? I hardly think so.

    I'm not saying this is Lana's fault by any mean. But this is certainly evidence of the writers not knowing how to treat the right characters. Put the dance scene in a retarded episode. Like some stupid filler episode that's meant to be instantaneously forgotten (like you know, almost everything after season 3) but whe you're gonna give us this rare exception of an episode, don't screw it with a sad attempt at comic relief. And also, give Lois more respect. Her only development as of late seems to be towards the relationship with Clark. But I'm a Superman fan, and I'll say that the First Lady of DC deserves more than that.

    And when I say First Lady, I mean it. She came before Wonder Woman and she is now the wife of the DC flagship character. I think she deserves more than just being portrayed as either a annoying reporter with spelling issues or a romantic sub-interest in this series.
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  • Avatar of SpaceWay2007

    SpaceWay2007

    [62]Feb 23, 2010
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    I agree with Enthropii. I find the Lois subplot annoying and unnecessary. But other than that, the episode is pretty good. My favorite scenes are the ending and the funeral.
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  • Avatar of Kalel18

    Kalel18

    [63]Feb 23, 2010
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    kalel512 wrote:

    ...I did however find issue with a few things on Superman Homepage in regards to "Persuasion". One of their Smallville reviewers (Neal Bailey) equated Clark, flat out, to a modern day terrorist (akin to members of the Taliban and the psychopath that crashed a plane into the IRS building in Austin) which I found to be ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!! In NO WAY is Clark Kent a terrorist for taking action against a people who are hell-bent on taking innocent lives and our planet from us. His "rationalization" for his "argument" was he "didn't check to see that people weren't in the building" and various other diatribes...

    Due to my asbolute rage towards Neal Bailey, I felt this was the only forum to present my argument where I would be able to say what needed to be said....

    After reading this atrocious review, I have removed Superman Homepage from my favorites and will never subscribe to their site or view it ever again. I suggest those of you who agree to do the same. Those who don't...well...whatever.

    I won't question your reasoning for being upset, only your reasoning for posting here vs. the Krypton site. I appreciate your anger. But I think you would be better served by taking it to the "source". Why not post your diatribe on the Krypton site? They deserve to know your feelings about the review and its author. Maybe they'd think twice about using his reviews in the future. And what do you have to lose? What is the worst that can happen - they dis-allow your post? You've already stated you don't plan on going back there. Let them know how you feel. And good luck.
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  • Avatar of SpaceWay2007

    SpaceWay2007

    [64]Feb 23, 2010
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    Wow, is that really true, Kalel512? Do you have the link to his review? I would like to read what he has to say.
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  • Avatar of kalel512

    kalel512

    [65]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 09/13/06
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    @Kalel18

    You pose an excellent point and I will make every attempt to get on Kryptonsite to get my opinion out there, but unfortunately the forum where my displeasure needs to be stated will never see the light of day thanks to the likes of Steve Younis and Neal Bailey who have consistently threatened those who disagree with their opinions (and those who justifiably blast them for it when they are this offensive) are banned from their forums and their content removed (First Amendment rights....ahem....). I have realized that Superman Homepage is like the CNN or Fox News (which ever way you lean left or right) of Smallville bashing; absolutely biased against anyone who contradicts their opinions and no one with true opposition to their skewed and prejudicial views can get their two cents in.

    ...but thanks for the encouragement in any case.

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  • Avatar of kalel512

    kalel512

    [66]Feb 23, 2010
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    @Spaceway2007

    Don't even give Mr. Bailey the satisfaction of reading his delusional and insulting opinions of both Smallville and his idea of what the show should be. He's using a national tragedy to blast the show and paint the Man of Steel in a way that is insulting to all Americans and fans of the show. Claiming that "baseless assumptions like thinking that the building was empty" is pure ignorance on the part of us fans and that the image of the fall of the solar tower is EXACTLY like the World Trade Centers. The a**hole even put up a side-by-side comparison of the two photos. The AUDACITY of this idiot!!!

    This "specimen" (aka Mr. Bailey) makes me want to puke. DO NOT GIVE HIM THE SATISFACTION!!!

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  • Avatar of dman_dustin

    dman_dustin

    [67]Feb 23, 2010
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    Enthropii wrote:
    ] I'm not saying that it was just Lois acting stupidly. I'm saying that the entire sub-plot (if it even deserves to be called that) was unnecessary. See, the thing is, since Lois is is doing this people are saying "oh she's cute" or "oh it's funny". But what if it had been Lana? Everyone would be outraged. Pissed off. Completely mad. But the fact remains, the plots were unnecessary, Lois was there for the sake of being there, and given the possible heaviness of the episode's theme, the Lois sequences felt out of place and undermining to the essential plot. Clark could have said many other things that could have given Lois a better plot. Maybe she's driven to an unsafe extent of finding out the Blur's identity. Maybe they could have her becoming too inquisitive and she could stumble upon Checkmate of even perhaps witness Clark speaking to Zod. Many things could have been done with Lois. But just like how the producers overused Lana in making her the plot point of everything, they seem to have decided that Lois is going to be (as a good friend of mine and a fellow intelligent forumer would say) the red-headed stepchild. Why have her dancing in a cliched, over the top plot line like a blibbering idiot? Could they not have brought out something dark or consequential laden? This was the easy way out. The producers weren't taking this seriously enough. They don't respect the weight and significance of this episode enough to give a good, serious and witty treatment. Instead they went with the cheap laugh... that is if people even laughed. And just to back up, although I agree that the entire Lois subplot was incredibly stupid and could have doubled as Erica Duarnce's audition for the retarded version of mad Men, the fact remains that they didn't need the dance scene. The plot was classic Smallville retardation. The dance scene? As I said, it feels like someone couldn't get a job writing a sitcom so they ended up here.

    The problem is you keep forgetting the Lois was under a spell which without Lois, wouldn't have made sense. If you drop Lois's "subplot" you're left with nothing but a jumbled mess.

    In fact the whole episode premise was the reaction to the gem meteorite, hell it happened before the opening credits started, that is what this episode was primarly about, everything else got put in second place, while everything else may have moved the story forward like finding out Alia killed Jor-el and her death signifies a change from the future, it's still all played second fiddle to the gem meteorite story. The episode wasn't called persuasion because the episode was about finding out who actually killed Jor-el or the consequences of killing him, but because Clark had a temporary wishing power.

    You said you didn't like to see Lois used/treated like this? While fine, you can have that but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't Lois's fault so defending that Lois should be treated better is kind of meaningless. After all Lois didn't become affected out of nowhere, I already mentioned this but Lois got affected had to deal with the "investigation" tgey were doing. So again it wasn't Lois's faul that she was affected. If Lois got affected because she came out of nowhere then you'd have a stronger counterpoint, but not really in this case since she was actually working (at the time of "infection").

    It's like saying that you're tired of the treatment of Cop A because he got shot while doing his job unfortunately that's life. And while that was an extreme comparison, keep in mind this is Smallville, where the risks of being anywhere are so incredibly high you're even lucky enough to be alive at the end of the day. I almost gurantee you the likelihood of dying in a Smallville Universe is extremely higher than it is in the real life. And that just doesn't include the possibility of death, but also a supernatural/super human experience.

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  • Avatar of Kalel18

    Kalel18

    [68]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 05/01/09
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    kalel512 wrote:

    @Kalel18

    You pose an excellent point and I will make every attempt to get on Kryptonsite to get my opinion out there, but unfortunately the forum where my displeasure needs to be stated will never see the light of day thanks to the likes of Steve Younis and Neal Bailey who have consistently threatened those who disagree with their opinions (and those who justifiably blast them for it when they are this offensive) are banned from their forums and their content removed (First Amendment rights....ahem....). I have realized that Superman Homepage is like the CNN or Fox News (which ever way you lean left or right) of Smallville bashing; absolutely biased against anyone who contradicts their opinions and no one with true opposition to their skewed and prejudicial views can get their two cents in.

    ...but thanks for the encouragement in any case.

    They sound like a bunch of North Koreans or red Chinese. I'd still try to post. Unless they filter everything before letting it through (doubtful - they would have to monitor 24/7), you stand a good chance of influencing a few folks, at least till they scan the boards and remove your comments. And if that happens, I'd keep posting the same rebuke until actually blocked from doing so by the %@#%&@. I won't be going there, that's for sure.
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  • Avatar of jwgrlrrajn

    jwgrlrrajn

    [69]Feb 23, 2010
    • member since: 07/14/07
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    Let me say this, if it wasn't for the Lois subplot, how long do you think it would have taken Clark to have figured everything out?
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  • Avatar of Enthropii

    Enthropii

    [70]Feb 24, 2010
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    dman_dustin wrote:

    The problem is you keep forgetting the Lois was under a spell which without Lois, wouldn't have made sense. If you drop Lois's "subplot" you're left with nothing but a jumbled mess.

    In fact the whole episode premise was the reaction to the gem meteorite, hell it happened before the opening credits started, that is what this episode was primarly about, everything else got put in second place, while everything else may have moved the story forward like finding out Alia killed Jor-el and her death signifies a change from the future, it's still all played second fiddle to the gem meteorite story. The episode wasn't called persuasion because the episode was about finding out who actually killed Jor-el or the consequences of killing him, but because Clark had a temporary wishing power.

    You said you didn't like to see Lois used/treated like this? While fine, you can have that but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't Lois's fault so defending that Lois should be treated better is kind of meaningless. After all Lois didn't become affected out of nowhere, I already mentioned this but Lois got affected had to deal with the "investigation" tgey were doing. So again it wasn't Lois's faul that she was affected. If Lois got affected because she came out of nowhere then you'd have a stronger counterpoint, but not really in this case since she was actually working (at the time of "infection").

    It's like saying that you're tired of the treatment of Cop A because he got shot while doing his job unfortunately that's life. And while that was an extreme comparison, keep in mind this is Smallville, where the risks of being anywhere are so incredibly high you're even lucky enough to be alive at the end of the day. I almost gurantee you the likelihood of dying in a Smallville Universe is extremely higher than it is in the real life. And that just doesn't include the possibility of death, but also a supernatural/super human experience.



    See, I'm not saying don't give Lois a sub-plot. I'm saying give her a respectable plot. There are so many things that could have been done with her.

    Again, I bring up Lana. Name me once in which Lana was just a simple, brainless sub-plot? Nooooo. She was a vampire, a witch, the love of Lex Luthor and the Love of Zod. She was even the love of Bizarro. Oh! And se was the love of a guy who was a football coach and then had a crazy mother who knew Lionel and he was her Sith Apprentice in the Order of Crystal Hunting.

    Once again I reiterate: I'm not saying cancel Lois. I'm saying cancel that particular sub-plot and give her a different one. An intelligent one.
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  • Avatar of alirk

    alirk

    [71]Feb 24, 2010
    • member since: 10/15/05
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    Enthropii wrote:
    dman_dustin wrote:

    The problem is you keep forgetting the Lois was under a spell which without Lois, wouldn't have made sense. If you drop Lois's "subplot" you're left with nothing but a jumbled mess.

    In fact the whole episode premise was the reaction to the gem meteorite, hell it happened before the opening credits started, that is what this episode was primarly about, everything else got put in second place, while everything else may have moved the story forward like finding out Alia killed Jor-el and her death signifies a change from the future, it's still all played second fiddle to the gem meteorite story. The episode wasn't called persuasion because the episode was about finding out who actually killed Jor-el or the consequences of killing him, but because Clark had a temporary wishing power.

    You said you didn't like to see Lois used/treated like this? While fine, you can have that but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't Lois's fault so defending that Lois should be treated better is kind of meaningless. After all Lois didn't become affected out of nowhere, I already mentioned this but Lois got affected had to deal with the "investigation" tgey were doing. So again it wasn't Lois's faul that she was affected. If Lois got affected because she came out of nowhere then you'd have a stronger counterpoint, but not really in this case since she was actually working (at the time of "infection").

    It's like saying that you're tired of the treatment of Cop A because he got shot while doing his job unfortunately that's life. And while that was an extreme comparison, keep in mind this is Smallville, where the risks of being anywhere are so incredibly high you're even lucky enough to be alive at the end of the day. I almost gurantee you the likelihood of dying in a Smallville Universe is extremely higher than it is in the real life. And that just doesn't include the possibility of death, but also a supernatural/super human experience.

    See, I'm not saying don't give Lois a sub-plot. I'm saying give her a respectable plot. There are so many things that could have been done with her. Again, I bring up Lana. Name me once in which Lana was just a simple, brainless sub-plot? Nooooo. She was a vampire, a witch, the love of Lex Luthor and the Love of Zod. She was even the love of Bizarro. Oh! And se was the love of a guy who was a football coach and then had a crazy mother who knew Lionel and he was her Sith Apprentice in the Order of Crystal Hunting. Once again I reiterate: I'm not saying cancel Lois. I'm saying cancel that particular sub-plot and give her a different one. An intelligent one.

    I can definetly see where you're coming from. Give Lois something a little less "demeening" & more "respectable" to do. At the same time, I liked this episode. It was kinda fun seeing Lois "cut loose" a little. It was nice to see her do something so far outside of what she would normally do. Yes, this was a somewhat seroius episode, but at the same time it's just a TV program. Lighten up a little!

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  • Avatar of jwgrlrrajn

    jwgrlrrajn

    [72]Feb 24, 2010
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    I suggest you don't think about it.
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  • Avatar of Enthropii

    Enthropii

    [73]Feb 24, 2010
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    jwgrlrrajn wrote:
    I suggest you don't think about it.


    Good advice. After all, retarded scene or not, this is certainly a good episode in Smallville's recent records.
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  • Avatar of Kalel18

    Kalel18

    [74]Feb 24, 2010
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    Enthropii wrote:
    jwgrlrrajn wrote:
    I suggest you don't think about it.


    Good advice. After all, retarded scene or not, this is certainly a good episode in Smallville's recent records.
    Whew. With all this carrying-on, I was about to suggest that maybe you were missing someone who will remain nameless.
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  • Avatar of alirk

    alirk

    [75]Feb 25, 2010
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    Kalel18 wrote:
    Enthropii wrote:
    jwgrlrrajn wrote:
    I suggest you don't think about it.
    Good advice. After all, retarded scene or not, this is certainly a good episode in Smallville's recent records.
    Whew. With all this carrying-on, I was about to suggest that maybe you were missing someone who will remain nameless.

    lol

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  • Avatar of Enthropii

    Enthropii

    [76]Feb 25, 2010
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    Kalel18 wrote:
    Enthropii wrote:
    jwgrlrrajn wrote:
    I suggest you don't think about it.


    Good advice. After all, retarded scene or not, this is certainly a good episode in Smallville's recent records.
    Whew. With all this carrying-on, I was about to suggest that maybe you were missing someone who will remain nameless.

    Good lord!
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  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [77]Mar 1, 2010
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    Enthropii wrote:
    dman_dustin wrote:


    1. Chloe being overprotective


    Interpretive plot, a glimpse of how she's be when she finally goes off the deep end. A very real possibility.
    dman_dustin wrote:


    2. Emil being laid back


    A significant consequence of Clark's new ability and a plot device to explain why he doesn't just keep himself permanently pixie dust. After all, fighting crime would be so much easier if the criminals would listen to him.
    dman_dustin wrote:


    3. Clark trying to kill Tess, because he was affected by his own temporary new power.


    Interesting thing here, Clark's new "ability" allowed him to overwrite anybody's willpower and make them do as he wished. Maybe, the pixie dust was allowing his own desires to overwrite his willpower and restraint. Anybody who has read the comics or watched the animated series can tell you how close Clark has come to killing. Basically, all of these served a real purpose. The Lois scenes were purely comic relief. And not a very intelligent one at that. And before anyone starts ranting about the plot moving Clois forward, please get real. The scenes in Warrior which displayed Clark's dedication to Lois to be so strong to be able to fend of magic, was a sign of moving things forward. Lois' absolute trust in his honesty was a step forward. This was a chance for the writers to have a go at writing something out of Seinfeld because they weren't good enough for that show.


    Lois was giddy with excitement and overdosing on persuasion. Some of us like it (I did) and some of us didn't. It's an opinion. Saying it was unnecessary is your opinion. My opinion is that it was fun to see.

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  • Avatar of axkaan

    axkaan

    [78]Mar 5, 2010
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    -anyone knew about the "song" plays at the end scene of persuasionthat clark blowed the towers with heat vision?

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    KingofIPirates

    [79]Mar 5, 2010
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    Apparently it's not a 'real song', just one composed by louis febre who does a lot of Smallville music.
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    supernaturalFTW

    [80]Mar 8, 2010
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    i dont get how zod is all emotional for killing the kandorian girl when he hardly cared about killing the kandorian from rapid when he unleashed the virus to find kar-el's blood

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