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The CW (ended 2011)

Tom Welling as Superman!

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    OdumCarlock

    [121]Apr 5, 2009
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    I also wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but what I got from what you said was it's writers/directors/producers fault that tom's not delivering when a large amount of the cast delivers week after week under the same conditions.
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    historylover20

    [122]Apr 5, 2009
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    OdumCarlock wrote:
    I also wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but what I got from what you said was it's writers/directors/producers fault that tom's not delivering when a large amount of the cast delivers week after week under the same conditions.

    Amen, brother!

    It's amazing that Allison Mack, Sam Witwer, Cassidy Freeman, even Justin Hartley (should I include Erica Durance? I think people here would include her, but other forums would really argue against her being on this list) all turn in such great performances under directors while Tom Welling is usually still wooden under the same direction.

    Say what you will about everything else about Smallville (and I always do), but the directing is almost always amazing. So, the fact that directors can elicit such terrific performances from EVERYONE ELSE, but not Tom, means a lot.

    Kat

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    smolvilhiro

    [123]Apr 5, 2009
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    historylover20 wrote:

    OdumCarlock wrote:
    I also wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but what I got from what you said was it's writers/directors/producers fault that tom's not delivering when a large amount of the cast delivers week after week under the same conditions.

    Amen, brother!

    It's amazing that Allison Mack, Sam Witwer, Cassidy Freeman, even Justin Hartley (should I include Erica Durance? I think people here would include her, but other forums would really argue against her being on this list) all turn in such great performances under directors while Tom Welling is usually still wooden under the same direction.

    Say what you will about everything else about Smallville (and I always do), but the directing is almost always amazing. So, the fact that directors can elicit such terrific performances from EVERYONE ELSE, but not Tom, means a lot.

    Kat

    maybe all my defending tw comes from not being able to recognize good acting unless it's day-lewisledgerdowney... but, just looking at the last episode (my memory won't take me further), neither allison mack nor sam witwer nor cassidy freeman pulled that episode off. chloe at that lever???? sam in the green water, or his pleading to die? tess with the magic book? not at least one bit surprised after learning clark is the traveller? just, i'll help you become our saviour? story bummed me out, tw trying to convince doomsday to live was especially wooden. but at least in that episode, i didn't see any good actor. but then again, maybe i AM blind to good acting. who knows...

    OdumCarlock wrote:
    I also wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but what I got from what you said was it's writers/directors/producers fault that tom's not delivering when a large amount of the cast delivers week after week under the same conditions.

    weeeeeeeell. let me say it this way: what bums me most about smallville is the lack of really good stories. make the other actors twice as good as welling, maybe even ten times as good. that would be interesting to me if i was an acting student, or a connoisseur of acting....

    but i just like me a good story. is it better when the actors in that story are good actors. sure. but if the stories aren't well above mediocre, the acting doesn't matter as much. so even if tom were a way better actor, let's say on par with day-lewis-ledger-downey-jr.... it would be easier to watch the show, but it wouldn't raise the level of the stories. there's no complexity, no beauty in those stories. most of them. so, my problem with smallville is not tw's lack of acting ability. i will reiterate what i said before, there are maybe 20000 better actors than tw (or pick your own number), but brandon routh isn't one of them (or you could get tw onto his levels really easily).

    so, were i the ceo of warner, i'd put tw into a superman reboot before i*d put routh in a sequel. maybe tw would make superman returns look like a masterpiece, maybe he'd rise to the challenge... yada yada, the movie needs an exceptional script, or the best of actors won't get me to applaud. get the best script, the best director, the best production, the best sfx, the best ensemble... and preferably the best superman. but if tom welling was the weak link in that list, i'd be happier than if you f#+ked up one of the other parts. needless to say, also pick the best possible supes. guess this rant was all about that picking tw or not picking him isn't the most important factor in whether the movie will be great or not, just as him being clark on smallville isn't the most important factor in the mediocrity of the series. he don't help it. but only if he really were supes could he lift the show out of the mire, against all the other odds.

    Edited on 04/05/2009 2:29pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of OdumCarlock

    OdumCarlock

    [124]Apr 5, 2009
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    I just think if TW was in a big screen picture with big screen co-stars it would probably be the most embarrassing thing ever for him. and we've already had to tolerate enough crap Superman pictures to gamble on someone barely qualified to do an Old Navy commercial as freakin Superman.
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    borikuarocks

    [125]Apr 5, 2009
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    I disagree. And heres why. I believe that Clark Kent is the man, and Superman is the mask. Having said that THE BEST Clark Kent weve had is, Tom Welling. Not Christopher Reeves, Not Dean Cain (although he did a great job), and DEFINITLY not Brandon Routh. Now for the role of Superman, Chris Reeves (God Bless his soul) was the best. Bar None. But does that mean we throw Tom down? No. Because we havnt seen him as Superman. So it wouldnt be fair to judge him without having at least a sample to base us off. The closest thing we have is "Kal", and the hairs on my back stood up when I saw him flying towards that airplane.
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    smolvilhiro

    [126]Apr 5, 2009
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    OdumCarlock wrote:
    I just think if TW was in a big screen picture with big screen co-stars it would probably be the most embarrassing thing ever for him. and we've already had to tolerate enough crap Superman pictures to gamble on someone barely qualified to do an Old Navy commercial as freakin Superman.

    just chill, dude i didn't know you disliked tw that much, but maybe if you're the acting connoisseur i aint, it does hurt to watch him on tv. but if that is the case, why DO you continue watching? bit of masochism at play?

    just kidding!

    it's only us three talking anyways, and i need to do some other stuff, so to sum things up, tw ain*t never gonna get the part, that's alright, he'll go on to play pretty boys, maybe he'll direct mediocre shows. whatever, he's a likeable guy, i wish him the best. let*s just hope the next supes really blows our minds, and to do that, he'll need more than just majorleagueactingability. and if the next movie does that as much as the last one, say goodbye to the superman-franchise for a decade or more.

    borikuarocks wrote:
    I disagree. And heres why. I believe that Clark Kent is the man, and Superman is the mask. Having said that THE BEST Clark Kent weve had is, Tom Welling. Not Christopher Reeves, Not Dean Cain (although he did a great job), and DEFINITLY not Brandon Routh. Now for the role of Superman, Chris Reeves (God Bless his soul) was the best. Bar None. But does that mean we throw Tom down? No. Because we havnt seen him as Superman. So it wouldnt be fair to judge him without having at least a sample to base us off. The closest thing we have is "Kal", and the hairs on my back stood up when I saw him flying towards that airplane.

    nah. tw doesn't only need to look the part (and he'd have to work on that as well, big time), but the guys are right, he doesn't have the acting skills. that didn't stop warner from putting routh in play, but with that script, maybe it was ok. even if he could get them skills, he'd lack the gravitas and the million other little things that make up the real superman. now, had smallville had those perfect arcs and great stories, maybe tw would have become the actor with gravitas and charisma and would have been the natural pick. that didn't happen, so one minute of silence for what might have been, and let's hope the guy that ends up getting the part is way more deserving it than tw. maybe jon hamm would be the best pick. don't seem to be able to think of a better one...

    OdumCarlock wrote:
    TW is without a doubt the WORST Clark Kent I've ever seen. so far every actor to play the part before had a quiet strength that translated to Superman. TW has never shown that. instead acting like a pouting child prone to tantrums. Saying TW would make a good superman because of the way he portrays Clark kent is pretty much throwing in the towel and admitting he'd be horrible in the role.

    routh? quiet strength? maybe it's your acting eyes, didn't see it in the movie. just my opinon, i'm disappointed on many counts with smallville, but that's just little league. f#*k up the movie franchise, now thats the major-league-failure.

    Edited on 04/05/2009 2:52pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of OdumCarlock

    OdumCarlock

    [127]Apr 5, 2009
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    TW is without a doubt the WORST Clark Kent I've ever seen. so far every actor to play the part before had a quiet strength that translated to Superman. TW has never shown that. instead acting like a pouting child prone to tantrums. Saying TW would make a good superman because of the way he portrays Clark kent is pretty much throwing in the towel and admitting he'd be horrible in the role.
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    OdumCarlock

    [128]Apr 5, 2009
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    smolvilhiro wrote:
    OdumCarlock wrote:
    I just think if TW was in a big screen picture with big screen co-stars it would probably be the most embarrassing thing ever for him. and we've already had to tolerate enough crap Superman pictures to gamble on someone barely qualified to do an Old Navy commercial as freakin Superman.


    just chill, dude i didn't know you disliked tw that much, but maybe if you're the acting connoisseur i aint, it does hurt to watch him on tv. but if that is the case, why DO you continue watching? bit of masochism at play? just kidding!

    it's only us three talking anyways, and i need to do some other stuff, so to sum things up, tw ain*t never gonna get the part, that's alright, he'll go on to play pretty boys, maybe he'll direct mediocre shows. whatever, he's a likeable guy, i wish him the best. let*s just hope the next supes really blows our minds, and to do that, he'll need more than just majorleagueactingability. and if the next movie does that as much as the last one, say goodbye to the superman-franchise for a decade or more.
    Actually I think with a better script and director Routh would have been better off. I had zero problem with him in the role, how he looked or acted, it was the horrible storyline of the film I hated. the only watchable part was the airplane rescue. after that, it wasn't worth watching. and his little speech about airplane safety to the people on the plane and the little wave to the fans at the baseball stadium were classic Superman. Sure he could bulk up, but to be realistic he doesn't need to be huge to play Superman simply because it's not a muscle thing, it's an inherent power being fueled by the yellow sun. in other words he doesn't have to look like he could move mountains to actually do it as Superman.
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    smolvilhiro

    [129]Apr 5, 2009
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    OdumCarlock wrote:
    Actually I think with a better script and director Routh would have been better off. I had zero problem with him in the role, how he looked or acted, it was the horrible storyline of the film I hated. the only watchable part was the airplane rescue. after that, it wasn't worth watching. and his little speech about airplane safety to the people on the plane and the little wave to the fans at the baseball stadium were classic Superman. Sure he could bulk up, but to be realistic he doesn't need to be huge to play Superman simply because it's not a muscle thing, it's an inherent power being fueled by the yellow sun. in other words he doesn't have to look like he could move mountains to actually do it as Superman.


    like i said, he don't need to be bodybuilder-huge, but he should look at least as ripped as hugh jackman does right now in wolverine... that was the whole start of the analogy. it's definitely not a muscle thing, but routh just was too far on the skinny side. supes probably could move those mountains were he just a featherweight, but to the audience, looking 10-20pounds heavier than routh did adds to the level of oomph, the wow that you should get when you see superman. like the atlas statue in times square, carrying the world...
    OdumCarlock wrote:
    Actually I think with a better script and director Routh would have been better off.


    what was your line with waynes world again? sorry dude, but that had to be said... no routh for me, the big f'#ckup was somewhere else, but like i do blame tw for smallville, i also do blame routh for returns. yet both of them bear smaller blame than other guys
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    OdumCarlock

    [130]Apr 5, 2009
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    The difference is I'm not saying he's a bad actor due to writers or directors, he did a good job despite the steaming pile they handed him which is something TW just can't do... And I DO agree he could be bulkier, or for a better effect, a padded Superman suit just so Clark kent looks thin while Superman looks ripped. helps the whole secret Identity thing along
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    borikuarocks

    [131]Apr 5, 2009
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    OdumCarlock wrote:
    TW is without a doubt the WORST Clark Kent I've ever seen. so far every actor to play the part before had a quiet strength that translated to Superman. TW has never shown that. instead acting like a pouting child prone to tantrums. Saying TW would make a good superman because of the way he portrays Clark kent is pretty much throwing in the towel and admitting he'd be horrible in the role.
    You cant blame TW for acting like apouting child because thats how he's being written. Try to remember the times where he's not written like a whiner. "Zod" was a particularly good episode.
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    smolvilhiro

    [132]Apr 5, 2009
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    OdumCarlock wrote:
    The difference is I'm not saying he's a bad actor due to writers or directors, he did a good job despite the steaming pile they handed him which is something TW just can't do... And I DO agree he could be bulkier, or for a better effect, a padded Superman suit just so Clark kent looks thin while Superman looks ripped. helps the whole secret Identity thing along

    don't know if a padded suit can be made to look like real muscle. also, as an actor, really having the muscle gives you another vibe... and in the comics, clark is also always this huge guy in a suit. no need to look thin. secret identity was never one of my problems, once you open that box.... like lois lane says in a comic somewhere, i think: just the glasses?

    routh didn't do a good job. i'll give you the airplane rescue, but even in this scene only the safety lecture, the part where he saw lois made me wince. he was cast because he visibly reminded everyone of christopher reeve, yet he lacked reeves charisma, and reeve was no great actor, but routh was worse, no worse than tw, but also no better. whole movie was cringeworthy, but his performance just as much. and i didn't say that tw is a bad actor because of the writers. he'd still be a mediocre actor with the best writers, but you wouldn*t notice it so much

    routh was just as wooden as tw, but in a major motion picture, he helped ruin the franchise for a couple of years, in no way was he better than tw. both of them are pretty boys who are in over their head.

    Edited on 04/05/2009 3:22pm
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    smolvilhiro

    [133]Apr 5, 2009
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    to underline my point:

    " One problem is with the casting. Brandon Routh lacks charisma as Superman, and I suppose as Clark Kent, he isn't supposed to have any. Routh may have been cast because he looks a little like Reeve, but there are times when he looks more like an action figure; were effects used to make him seem built from synthetics? We remember the chemistry between Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder (Lois Lane) in the original "Superman" movie, and then observe how their counterparts are tongue-tied in this one. If they had a real romance (and they did), has it left them with nothing more than wistful looks and awkward small talk?

    It's strange how little dialogue the title character has in the movie. Clark Kent is monosyllabic, and Superman is microsyllabic.

    As for Superman, he's a one-trick pony. To paraphrase Archimedes: "Give me a lever and a place to stand, and I will move the universe." Superman doesn't need the lever or the place to stand, but as he positions himself in flight, straining to lift an airplane or a vast chunk or rock, we reflect that these activities aren't nearly as cinematic as what Batman and Spider-Man get up to. Watching Superman straining to hold a giant airliner, I'm wondering: Why does he strain? Does he have his limits? Would that new Airbus be too much for him? What about if he could stand somewhere?"


    http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060626/REVIEWS/60606009/1023

    i'm new to this forum, don't know if posting this text or this link is allowed....
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    OdumCarlock

    [134]Apr 5, 2009
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    No, it's not allowed. leave immediately

    there's no other way to say it but pretty much everything about SR sucked.. Lois, REALLY sucked, the storyline about him being gone 5 years and her having a kid, really sucked. hence the ackward between them. I'm just basing it on him playing a decent Clark and (when not stalking lois) a decent Superman. Critics opinions aside because that's a persons opinion whose not even in this conversation. But as long as we're in agreement TW is mediocre at best, then We're also in agreement that having suffered through too many Superman Flops they need to hold out for a LOT better than TW. I'd LOVE to see a Batman Begins treatment of the franchise to jump start the series, because let's face it, there has NEVER been an epic version of Superman. not like Batman got.
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    Enthropii

    [135]Apr 5, 2009
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    Agreed with Kat that Tom is a better director than actor.

    Agreed with Odum on most points.

    Agreed with Borikua that we're generally more used to seeing Superman as the man and Clark Kent as the mask.

    I also agree that Clark Kent should be the man and Superman the mask.

    All that being said, Tom Welling is a dredge bore. Watching him is a dredge bore. Listening to him is a dredge bore. Thinking of him in costume, on the big screen, being the definition of Superman of this generation is just a kick to the meteorites down there.

    And as for acting, I've been a consistent fan of Glover, Schneider, Rosebaum, Marsters and , until recently, Sullivan.
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    OdumCarlock

    [136]Apr 5, 2009
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    He agreed with everything I said he's just paranoid about his man-crush becoming public...
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    sabrips

    [137]Apr 7, 2009
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    I think that we bought the idea of Tom as Superman (why would the show be so successful if we hadnt?), so it wouldnt be a bad for him to play the same role in a movie.

    BR looked a lot like Christpher Reeve but the movie was awful, Maybe it was the acting, maybe it was the writing... Whatever it was, its clear that they shouldnt use the same formula, and what better choice than Tom Welling?

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    OdumCarlock

    [138]Apr 7, 2009
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    He's not Superman in this show. everyone down to him keeps asserting that.
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    smolvilhiro

    [139]Apr 7, 2009
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    challenge to all: name me the best actor for the part. don't just say tw shouldn't get it, don't just give me an actor that's better than tw or routh. someone here said jon hamm, like his look, didn't watch enough mad men to know if he can act. anyone got someone better? more a-list? great acting skills? charisma? broad shoulders? perfect look? give me names. good ones.
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    OdumCarlock

    [140]Apr 7, 2009
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    Personally I can't name anyone off the top of my head, they've always surprised me with their choices and the choices all seemed to work (Even BR if you watch select clips of the movie and don't take it in as a whole) I thought Dean Cain made a great Superman. better than I thought he'd be. so let them continue the trend and find an unknown that can fill the boots. Superman and even Clark have an inner strength and confidence that I don't think TW will ever be able to convey after 8+ years of smallville pining after women,whining, pouting etc. wath the original Superman and look at the guy they had playing Clark in Smallville. the closest thing to whining he did was frustration at having to be different and act normal.
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