Episode 3 'Men Of Honor' discussion thread

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    PenguinSuzie

    [21]Feb 17, 2013
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    marknmo wrote:
    I agree, he's quickly become my new favorite character of the show I think. He didn't used to be one of my favorites, but he's grown on me a ton this season. No one will ever top Ashur for me, but of the remaining cast, Gannicus is on top right now.
    Ashur was my favourite character too.
    marknmo wrote:
    I am very curious about this as well. I think depending on how this goes, it will greatly affect my enjoyment of the rest of the season. I'd like to see option c, but I think d is much more likely given how much he's put into getting her back into his life (last season). I think he'll defend anything she does, even if he knows it's wrong. I also see e happening, but with an added conflict between Crixus and Gannicus. I dunno if it would ever escalate to where the two of them fought each other to the death, but I can definitely see some strong blows being exchanged.
    I hope at least something comes of it it. It would be disappointing if this was the last of it. I think it'll probably be a recurring plot line to some extent though, and that Naevia will continue to make reckless decisions and act the way she is at the moment and someone's bound to notice.
    boom-moo wrote:
    Eventually the truth is gonna be found (about Laeta being responsible for helping Ulpianus and the others and not Attius)
    Did Naevia think that Attius had hidden the Roman civilians, or helped them escape? I thought at the time that it was a more general betrayal to the Romans rather than something specific, or perhaps to do with the attack. It would make a lot more sense if they thought he'd helped those people escape. Though her reaction seems even more extreme if the crime she thought he was guilty of was helping a few hostages escape as oppose to thinking he had something to do with the attack. Though considering her frame of mind that wouldn't be surprising.

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    boom-moo

    [22]Feb 17, 2013
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    Did Naevia think that Attius had hidden the Roman civilians, or helped them escape? I thought at the time that it was a more general betrayal to the Romans rather than something specific, or perhaps to do with the attack. It would make a lot more sense if they thought he'd helped those people escape. Though her reaction seems even more extreme if the crime she thought he was guilty of was helping a few hostages escape as oppose to thinking he had something to do with the attack. Though considering her frame of mind that wouldn't be surprising.
    I think that Naevia truly believed that Attius had helped those Romans escape. I don't think it's hinted that anyone suspected Attius of having something to do with the Roman attack (and if it was then I totally missed that).
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    PenguinSuzie

    [23]Feb 17, 2013
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    It was all quite quick and a bit muffled so it was a little confusing what it was they were specifically talking about, at least it was to me. Just that there was the attack and he was trying to leave so I thought that they suspected he had something to do with tipping someone off or something. I sort of missed what it was that Saxa said that made him a suspect. I think you're right, it explains a lot. It makes more sense if they realized those Romans were missing and suspected him for whatever reason, I assume because he was seen around them and/or because he was leaving. Pretty weak evidence for her to assume he was responsible though.


    Despite it being a worthy cause; most people without a strong personal motivation to stay, would probably want to leave and have nothing to do with anything else that happened with the war or the inevitable bloodshed and ridiculously high body counts. Wanting to leave before he ends up as another casualty doesn't make him guilty (of anything but leaving them anyway) but her paranoia made him instantly guilty in her eyes. There's likely to be more than a few unnecessary deaths at her hands before the end of this season. I hope Laeta isn't among them, she's probably the nicest Roman noble we've seen on this show.

    Edited on 02/17/2013 5:29pm
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    invisiblish

    [24]Feb 17, 2013
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    From what i recall of the incident, Saxa reported that the Romans were missing while Naevia told Nasir to keep watch. Naevia went directly to Attius accusing him but took things too far in attacking him for it. The fight clearly escalated because of Naevia's hatred of Romans but no other implications of treachery came against Attius. Naevia even covered her tracks by saying that Attius attacked her when questioned about the missing Romans.
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    boom-moo

    [25]Feb 18, 2013
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    Pretty weak evidence for her to assume he was responsible though.

    Despite it being a worthy cause; most people without a strong personal motivation to stay, would probably want to leave and have nothing to do with anything else that happened with the war or the inevitable bloodshed and ridiculously high body counts. Wanting to leave before he ends up as another casualty doesn't make him guilty (of anything but leaving them anyway) but her paranoia made him instantly guilty in her eyes.

    Yes it was rushed and the fact that both the Romans from Sinuessa and the Roman soldiers under Tiberius' orders are referred to as "the Roman" can make it sort of confusing. Also the fact that Saxa mentions the "Roman fight" when referring to the fight for bread of the beginning of the episode rather than Tiberius' men fighting Spartacus and the pirates.

    I agree that Naevia acted on impulse rather than on evidence. As you point out I took think that Attius just wanted out before things got even nastier and he found himself trapped in the middle.

    invisiblish wrote:
    From what i recall of the incident, Saxa reported that the Romans were missing while Naevia told Nasir to keep watch. Naevia went directly to Attius accusing him but took things too far in attacking him for it. The fight clearly escalated because of Naevia's hatred of Romans but no other implications of treachery came against Attius. Naevia even covered her tracks by saying that Attius attacked her when questioned about the missing Romans.
    That's it, there wasn't any implication that Attius had anything to do with the Romans attacking Spartacus and his men.

    (Around the 43'30 mark Saxa comes speaking in German)
    Naevia: What does she say?
    Saxa: Roman your man make fight gone.
    Naevia: Ulpianus?
    Saxa: With fat wife and others chained with him.
    Nemetes: We must sweep the city.
    Naevia: No. Remain here. It may be distraction to draw us from the gate.

    (Around the 44'40 mark Naevia goes to face Attius who is "packing" to leave)
    Naevia: You take leave of the city absent parting words?
    Attius: I've broken them to all that matter. If dealings with the Cilicians end as desired I will buy passage far from your fucking presence.
    Naevia: Do you buy such for your friends as well?
    Attius: Friends?
    Naevia: Tell me where there are!
    Attius: Wait! I do not know what you speak of!
    Naevia: I speak of Romans. And your fucking treachery.

    (Around the 49'00 mark, right before killing him)
    Navia: I have had my fill of men such as you.

    (Around the 54'00 mark Naevia tells Spartacus and the others that she has killed Attius)
    Naevia: He came at me when confronted with question of aiding Ulpianus and the others in escape.
    Crixus: You were left absent choice.

    _________________

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    Edited on 02/18/2013 4:45am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    invisiblish

    [26]Feb 18, 2013
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    I don't think they knew anything of the Roman's attack on Spartacus. Remember Nasir said that he could see nothing but 'Piss and Shit' when asked by Naevia. This was just before Saxa came to report her findings of the missing Romans. The guard were present to protect the city from possible betrayal by the Cicilian Pirates. If anything the city (Nassir and company) would believe that Spartacus and the Pirates were battling until the Pirates began to bombard the area from their ship revealing the Roman Soldiers. How Nasir would see any of the battle is a mystery; no light had been produced by the attacking Romans or defending Pirates/Rebel Slaves. Perhaps the noise of battle alerted Nasir?
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    boom-moo

    [27]Feb 19, 2013
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    I don't think they knew either. But even if they couldn't see anything the sound of battle surely could be heard and that was what made Nasir restless. Later the pirates did throw fire but I don't know how much that allowed the rebels in the city to see/guess. In any case, they had enough evidence that Spartacus and those in the beach were having trouble so Nasir's words are justified.
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    invisiblish

    [28]Feb 20, 2013
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    I completely agree, I don't think Nasir knew exactly what was going on but knew something bad was happening. I find it interesting how everything is piling on at once: Naevia having a breakdown, the Romans have gone missing, Tiberius has shown force and knowledge of Spartacus' whereabouts, deals with the Pirates. At what point does it finally become too much? Spartacus might end up with an aneurism by the end of the series.
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    boom-moo

    [29]Feb 20, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    Spartacus might end up with an aneurism by the end of the series.
    Lol!

    Probably I'm losing focus but I find troubling that the Romans know exactly where Spartacus is. I understand the rebels' need to find proper shelter and an abundance of supplies to survive the winter but I can't help having the feeling that they are in some sort of rat trap. If Crassus would be powerful enough to summon a big army, they could find themselves surrounded with little chance to escape alive from a long siege. I guess that their strongest suit is, as Spartacus said at the end of ep 1, that the Romans would find themselves in way harder conditions if they were to spend the winter camped during siege.

    Am I seeing things right?
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    invisiblish

    [30]Feb 21, 2013
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    boom-moo wrote:
    invisiblish wrote:
    Spartacus might end up with an aneurism by the end of the series.
    Lol!

    Probably I'm losing focus but I find troubling that the Romans know exactly where Spartacus is. I understand the rebels' need to find proper shelter and an abundance of supplies to survive the winter but I can't help having the feeling that they are in some sort of rat trap. If Crassus would be powerful enough to summon a big army, they could find themselves surrounded with little chance to escape alive from a long siege. I guess that their strongest suit is, as Spartacus said at the end of ep 1, that the Romans would find themselves in way harder conditions if they were to spend the winter camped during siege.

    Am I seeing things right?


    Completely agree. I think Spartacus was expecting it to take longer for the Romans to discover their location. Is he surprised that they found out sooner? No. Did he expect or count on them finding out later? I think so. Spartacus is playing that Troy vs Greece card. Unfortunately I think Spartacus is overestimating his abilities to defend the city. Unless he has amassed a GREAT number of HIGHLY skilled archers, his walls will serve only as his own prison. Speaking of the walls... a couple of trebuchets should easily bring them down. If Crassus can't afford a couple of those and prepare properly then he will clearly struggle.
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    boom-moo

    [31]Feb 21, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    I think Spartacus was expecting it to take longer for the Romans to discover their location. Is he surprised that they found out sooner? No. Did he expect or count on them finding out later? I think so.
    I think so as well but he didn't seem too troubled by it which is what puzzles me. Granted that the end of the previous episode was rather packed what with the news of some Sinuessa Romans having escaped (as far as they know) and Attius having been killed by Naevia so I hope that the issue is addressed in the next episode.
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