Episode 4 'Decimation' discussion thread

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    boom-moo

    [1]Feb 15, 2013
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    Please post your opinions/comments/discussion topics on episode 4 "Decimation" to air on February 22nd here.

    -Spoilers are not allowed.
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    -Discussion is welcome, arguing is not.
    -Trolls won't be fed, ignore and report it is.
    -Be respecful, keep it cool.



    Thank you

    (As per usual, I'll open a discussion thread for every new episode every Thursday and keep it locked until Friday. Past experience shows that comments posted before the episode airs tend to spoil the episode for spoiler free people and also, episode discussion threads that are opened days before their airing date tend to end up buried and reopened by different users which leads to confusion and clutter. Any comments regarding this episode should be done in the Spoilers thread until the episode has aired. Thank you.)
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    invisiblish

    [2]Feb 22, 2013
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    Well that was interesting. As was previously discussed, Decimation took place in the Roman camp. With Tiberius' dear friend meeting his end. Deserved or not, his death did lead to Tiberius' growth as a Soldier of Rome. It seems that Kore's words seem to have much more meaning to Crassus than any others. Although she did not mean it, she aided in Tiberius' punishment and growth. I think that they will engage in a relationship of sorts being stuck in the same camp together, some kind of happening will come causing further strife between Tiberius and Crassus.

    As for Caesar, what a part he played. Glad we figured out all of the mystery with him. I was actually very surprised with his caring of Fabia(?). I expected him to end her life, telling of his name and intentions seemed to aid in his cause but to actually pity her when doing so was completely unexpected. His relationship with Nemetes is actually fairly impressive, getting the most untrusting individual to trust him... quite impressive.

    Speaking of Nemetes... what the hell? Am I the only one who didn't see that coming? I figured she would appear at some point, but I really didn't expect Nemetes to have the sister, especially in that way. I think it's fair to say that I don't like him much anymore.

    Crixus is way out there right now. I don't know if he really is 'that in love' Gannicus told him exactly what happened, yet he did nothing but follow Naevia's lead. Oh and lets not forget that he was getting the crap kicked out of him. If anything Crixus may be even more vengeful after such a loss and Spartacus' 'betrayal' of sorts. I liked the foreshadowing about Crixus' intentions and then his slaying of the Roman Slaves. It seems that Caesar will make attempt on his life after pursuing a confrontation with Spartacus, Gannicus, and Agron's group.
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    boom-moo

    [3]Feb 23, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    I think that they will engage in a relationship of sorts being stuck in the same camp together, some kind of happening will come causing further strife between Tiberius and Crassus.
    Wow Kore and Tiberius? How interesting. I don't see that happening though, Kore seems to be fully in love with Crassus and devoted to him. Also, because I suspect that Tiberius is Kore and Crassus' son. It's the best way I find to explain her interest in the boy getting all possible recognition. Why would she so much care otherwise? And it would also explain why her words always hold so much meaning to Crassus, who otherwise is his own man when it comes to making decisions.

    invisiblish wrote:
    As for Caesar, what a part he played. Glad we figured out all of the mystery with him.
    Me too! So clever of Crassus to keep him unshaven and the very intriguing scene with strange bloody practice finally revealed. The slave was working more on the crotch area though... it was so written/shown that way to keep viewers in the dark about its real purpose.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Speaking of Nemetes... what the hell? Am I the only one who didn't see that coming?
    He absolutey confused me all through the episode. More about it below.

    _______________

    Wow, what an episode! So much to comment on. I'm really glad that most of the topics that we discussed after episode 3 (very nicely put by Gannicus as a "mountain of ifs") have been addressed

    Crixus and Spartacus are really growing apart which is particularly sad to see after Spartacus' comment that if he should fall it should be Crixus the one taking his place as a leader, with Gannicus and Agron as trusted advisors. Little wonder that Spartacus reconsiders this thought at the end of the episode seeing that they are not of a mind at all.

    Crixus is blood thirsty as is Naevia which doesn't help since she has some sway with him. He wants both to go meet Crassus's army and kill every Roman in Sinuessa. Spartacus wants to keep within the city and take advantage of its walls while procuring themselves with food and training their swelling numbers. Spartacus has to remind Crixus once and again during the episode to focus on the orders given instead of trying to talk him out of them which is quite telling.

    I liked it that Agron and Gannicus were shown to have concerns about Spartacus' plans, not just Crixus. Agron would press on to fight Crassus' army and Gannicus would also have the Romans dead (as would so many others). However, even if they don't agree with Spartacus' judgement they are more level headed than Crixus and fall to command. I think it's a very realistic depiction of a leader. As I see it, being a good leader doesn't mean having everyone under your command agreeing with your every word but having them following orders given all the same. I loved it when Gannicus questioned Attius' death now that their need of weapons is pressing. It was an early spark of the bigger confrontation to come, very nice in restrospective.

    And then there's Nemetes. He confused the heck out of me during the whole episode. He obviously holds a grudge since Spartacus took the money from him and chose to spare the Romans' lives. I didn't know what to make of it when he was intently listening to Crixus and Naevia talking about how any eventual Roman infiltrator with half their wits would hide their true skill with weapons. And then when he started to seek Caesar. I was like: 'wow, he might turn on Spartacus'. Then when Crixus roughs him up a bit and asks if their plan is bearing fruits I was: 'oh right, he is only playing a part to tell infiltrators apart, well done'. But then again when the whole thing regarding Fabia was presented I was left with more questions than ever.

    By the way, the whole Fabia thing was very intense. Very well written about Lyciscus (Caesar) having a hard time killing her and then using it to gain Nemetes' trust. And then Nemetes twisting it further by coming up with the tale of Fabia being one of the fled Romans who had attempted on his life and would have succeeded not being for Caesar killing her... wow. Which ironically comes to pass for real when Caesar kills Fabia's brother. Very good example of the lenghts that Caesar will go to to pocket Nemetes.

    Just when I was rolling my eyes at Sibyl doing nothing else but drooling at Gannicus she gives Laeta away (and going to Gannicus instead of to Spartacus, of course. Lol clever girl). Rather foolish of Laeta to think that Sibyl would keep her mouth shut. Why would she? Telling her to karpe diem because things might go back to what they were didn't certainly help Laeta's cause either.

    I'm glad that it was finally revealed that Attius had no part in the Romans escaping. It served to so many purposes, one of them the very anticipated Gannicus / Crixus confrontation which brought about a Crixus / Spartacus one and what seems to be the beginning of another division within the rebel ranks. That's quite interesting. Spartacus has been very clear that anyone who won't follow command, Crixus included, will be put to death so Crixus and his like either fold or leave. Crixus has mentioned about taking their own path... will they leave the city?

    I think that Spartacus is making a mistake saving Laeta's life, same as he did trusting her to start with. Fine that he doesn't want to become a Roman by killing innocents like Romans do, but he should punish those betraying him regardless of what side they stand in. Unless he keeps Laeta chained day and night, she will try to betray him again. On the Roman side... wow, Crassus doesn't shy away from teaching a lesson indeed. Including Tiberius in the decimation speaks volumes about the kind of a man that he is (yes Kore, he is manning him up as per your suggestion). I keep liking him more and more. He is the best match so far to Spartacus by far!

    Pity that Sabinus is gone though, I liked him. He was honest and loyal to a fault and I still think that he and Tiberius were more than friends. Wow at Tiberius too, way to get over himself and make daddy proud.

    Oh, and Caesar promising Gannicus that he will have rematch one day? You can bet it's going to pass.

    On a lighter note I had to laugh at Agron's 'eww' face when the whore threw herself to his arms. Also very fitting of him to say that a woman's mind is a foreign thing.

    Edited on 02/23/2013 3:50pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [4]Feb 24, 2013
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    Agron actually made me laugh a lot during this episode. Not only did he agree with Crixus, which he hasn't done since his series debut, but his comment about the woman, the whore incident, and even his quip to Nasir about the Sicilian Pirates. I rather like that he is more than just a watch dog to Spartacus, it gives his character more than just a strong sword mindlessly following orders (ie. Lugo).

    Gannicus has put Saxa in a very compromising position, the majority of strong arms (Lugo, Nemetes, Agron, etc.) are her people and followers of Crixus. Though she clearly cares very little about it and follows Gannicus' lead; it became clear later when the 2 Germans attacked her while she escorted the Roman slaves.

    I'm actually annoyed by the Crixus role. The beginning of Vengeance put a considerable amount of time into allying Crixus and his people with Spartacus, Agron, and the rest. Vengeance even went so far as to bring trouble to the ranks when Agron saved so many of his people (Lugo, Saxa, & Nemetes). Break the ranks and build the ranks, they did this all last season with Crixus and Agron, now they are doing the same with Crixus (AGAIN!!!) and Agron in his personal issues with Nasir. You could actually see a moment or two of hesitation with Crixus, specifically when he was going to kill Laeta. He simply looked to Naevia and regained his bloodlust, similar to how Spartacus raged when seeing Glabur.

    I think Spartacus plans to remove the Roman slaves from the city. It's the only way I can think of that he can keep them safe and not have to kill them himself. If they are removed (via the Sicilians) then they have no more knowledge to spill, nor danger to fear. I don't see any use that he could possibly have for them, their pure presence brings confrontation and his power to subjugation.

    I'm not sure what Caesar exactly plans, does he think that he can push Crixus, Naevia, and Nemetes so far as to kill Spartacus and co.? Maybe I'm mistaken in thought but I could never see Crixus fighting Spartacus to the death. Though I can, VERY UNFORTUNATELY, see them taking arms to each other before Caesar or Naevia end Gannicus' life. I think it will take something of great impact (or someone in this case) to bring Crixus and Spartacus back to common ground.

    Speaking of Naevia, am I the only one that hoped Spartacus put her in charge of the Romans? I know it sounds crazy but after seeing Gannicus and confirming Laeta's treachery I would have had their fates bound. 'If Laeta and her people are to die, then you too shall share their fate.' Something to this explicit point would make a point to both her and Crixus. Any wrong doing Laeta doubly reflects on Naevia and hers. If Laeta were to die to then so to should Naevia. I guess the level headed part of viewership is hard to get by compared to their active, war-fighting mind set.
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    boom-moo

    [5]Feb 25, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    Agron actually made me laugh a lot during this episode. Not only did he agree with Crixus, which he hasn't done since his series debut, but his comment about the woman, the whore incident, and even his quip to Nasir about the Sicilian Pirates.
    How about: "A lifetime ago the words f Gauls would spring to mouth"? Lol that was fun.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Gannicus has put Saxa in a very compromising position, the majority of strong arms (Lugo, Nemetes, Agron, etc.) are her people and followers of Crixus. Though she clearly cares very little about it and follows Gannicus' lead; it became clear later when the 2 Germans attacked her while she escorted the Roman slaves.
    Yes, it was clear that neither Gannicus nor Saxa agree with Spartacus' decision to keep the Roman alive and fed but even though Gannicus decides to respect that decision and follow command no matter what, I'm not sure that Saxa would not being because she is in a relationship with Gannicus. Now, seeing how her people don't respect her for neither of those things, she has but little choice when it comes to choosing sides because I don't think that she would be welcomed back between her own and if she would, the issue would be revisited with every eventual disagreement.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I'm actually annoyed by the Crixus role (...) You could actually see a moment or two of hesitation with Crixus, specifically when he was going to kill Laeta. He simply looked to Naevia and regained his bloodlust, similar to how Spartacus raged when seeing Glabur.
    It annoys me that he is a bit too much of Naevia's puppet. The way she cups his face to have his attention before speaking to him and keeping him on the track that she wants him to be really irks me. Not that I don't understand their [***slight spoilers behind the link***] reasons, but I'm not particularly fond of the way they are being written.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Agron in his personal issues with Nasir.
    Granted that I'm awfully biased as they are my favourite pairing but I like that, it gives them a bit more of backstory (and screentime ) and it's not usually that we get to have a homosexual relationship as the one taking front and center (at least this season) and being explored to detail. It's a love story shown in depth, both the nice and the ugly, and I think that TPTB are being brave and smart there.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I think Spartacus plans to remove the Roman slaves from the city. It's the only way I can think of that he can keep them safe and not have to kill them himself. If they are removed (via the Sicilians) then they have no more knowledge to spill, nor danger to fear. I don't see any use that he could possibly have for them, their pure presence brings confrontation and his power to subjugation.
    Good idea! It would also mean way less mouths to feed. Very risky plan tough. If it goes south the Roman slaves could turn against them and some of the rebels (Crixus and the like) might not feel like helping and risking their lives to spirit them away so Spartacus might find him seriously outnumbered.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I'm not sure what Caesar exactly plans, does he think that he can push Crixus, Naevia, and Nemetes so far as to kill Spartacus and co.? Maybe I'm mistaken in thought but I could never see Crixus fighting Spartacus to the death. Though I can, VERY UNFORTUNATELY, see them taking arms to each other before Caesar or Naevia end Gannicus' life. I think it will take something of great impact (or someone in this case) to bring Crixus and Spartacus back to common ground.
    You can find a clear answer to that in some of the preview reels that Starz has been broadcasting to advertise the show. But as many would consider those spoilers, I'm keeping them (and the knowledge getting from watching them) out of the discussion thread. However, if you want to go into detail about them, I posted a compilation over at the Spoilers thread last night. They provide many answers but raise many questions as well

    Anyway, I don't think that Caesar dares to dream that he can push the rebels into killing their leader, but he is surely enjoying the division and the confrontation and is being very smart in keeping it well alive for his best interest. It weakens the rebel army and that surely works in Crassus' favour.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Speaking of Naevia, am I the only one that hoped Spartacus put her in charge of the Romans? I know it sounds crazy but after seeing Gannicus and confirming Laeta's treachery I would have had their fates bound. 'If Laeta and her people are to die, then you too shall share their fate.' Something to this explicit point would make a point to both her and Crixus. Any wrong doing Laeta doubly reflects on Naevia and hers. If Laeta were to die to then so to should Naevia. I guess the level headed part of viewership is hard to get by compared to their active, war-fighting mind set.
    It didn't occur to me but I don't think that after episode 4 Spartacus trusts that Naevia (or Crixus) would be fit for the task and he surely doesn't want to test that and find himself in a very ugly position.
    Edited on 02/27/2013 7:23am
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  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [6]Feb 25, 2013
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    From what I can tell Crixus and co. took care of the 'extra mouths to feed' pretty well. It is easy to believe that only those few Laeta had hidden remain of the Roman Slaves.

    I don't mean that Spartacus should charge Naevia and Crixus with their defense, that would just invite them to kill the slaves and him them. I mean more so that he should find them responsible for the Roman Slaves well being. If Laeta and the others were to be sick it would be there fault, similar with death. Spartacus can't keep the Roman Slaves there without having to kill one of his own. Their blood-lust is far too great to leave the 'twinkie dangling in front of their nose'. If Spartacus keeps the slaves without changing his measures to assure their safety, then he has vastly underestimated their blood-lust or vastly overestimated their self control. Either way he would be making the same mistake he has already made time and time again. Whether on purpose or not, Spartacus is clearly holding himself responsible for Crixus and co.'s doings.

    I guess I have never connected with Sabinus, I recognized him as Cannon Fodder, so I guess I never cared for him much. Although, while he did the correct thing, he is the one responsible for the retreat that brought his own death. I believe he was the one ordering the retreat, even telling Tiberius that they should retreat. Granted ultimate responsibility rests on Tiberius but the retreat, correctly and intellectually, rests with Sabinus. Tiberius does garner one Roman trait: he would have stayed, albeit naively, until his death by Spartacus. If you equate it properly, I expected Sabinus to die while I did not expect Attius to die.I expected the Sabinus-Tiberius relationship to be revealed, especially when Tiberius awoke. Now that Sabinus is dead, I guess not. It may still be revealed but the importance of such a revelation is surely diminished now that he is gone.

    I'm skeptical of the 'Tiberius is the son of Kore' thought; I can only see one possible way for that to be. First off Crassus' wife Tertulla values Tiberius and his younger brother. Tertulla clearly resents Kore, as evidenced by her remarks regarding the Caesar incident. This leads me to the only possibility I can find to support this theory; Tertulla can't have children. If she is infertile, such as Lucretia was initially thought to be, then it could be this is by far and away possible. This would also further her resentment of Kore, she not only gave birth to their children but has remained even though her 'purpose' has been served. Personally I just see her as a long time trustee of the Crassus household, perhaps a wet nurse of Tiberius?
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    boom-moo

    [7]Feb 25, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    From what I can tell Crixus and co. took care of the 'extra mouths to feed' pretty well. It is easy to believe that only those few Laeta had hidden remain of the Roman Slaves.
    True, there doesn't seem to be that many left. But now I'm not sure about removing them from the city, I don't think that's in Spartacus mind. I think that his dealings with Heracleo have to do with somehow tricking the Romans out of some of their grain reserves.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I don't mean that Spartacus should charge Naevia and Crixus with their defense, that would just invite them to kill the slaves and him them. I mean more so that he should find them responsible for the Roman Slaves well being. If Laeta and the others were to be sick it would be there fault, similar with death. Spartacus can't keep the Roman Slaves there without having to kill one of his own. Their blood-lust is far too great to leave the 'twinkie dangling in front of their nose'. If Spartacus keeps the slaves without changing his measures to assure their safety, then he has vastly underestimated their blood-lust or vastly overestimated their self control. Either way he would be making the same mistake he has already made time and time again. Whether on purpose or not, Spartacus is clearly holding himself responsible for Crixus and co.'s doings.
    I don't think that Spartacus is going to do anything different at all regarding the surviving Romans. He trusts that his word to kill anyone disobeying his orders is gonna be deterrent enough for Crixus, Naevia and their men's bloodthirst because they very well know that Spartacus will see his word/threat through. If anything, I believe that he doesn't see them able to kill him or force him to kill them out of such a disagreement. After all, as you pointed out, there's but a handful left which doesn't make that much of a difference after all and their bloodthirst has been satisfied for now with all the lives taken. Plus Naevia has wronged Attius big time and that card can be shown in her face again. Crixus & Co. have more to win from staying put than from putting Spartacus to the test again. As Crixus said, things as they are the best course of action seems to be to part ways so that all can remain in their belief without getting at each other's throats.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I guess I have never connected with Sabinus, I recognized him as Cannon Fodder, so I guess I never cared for him much. Although, while he did the correct thing, he is the one responsible for the retreat that brought his own death. I believe he was the one ordering the retreat, even telling Tiberius that they should retreat. Granted ultimate responsibility rests on Tiberius but the retreat, correctly and intellectually, rests with Sabinus.
    I just rewatched and I don't think that Sabinus ordered the retreat. Around the 51'30 mark, after the pirates open fire and right before Tiberius gets hurt Roman soldiers can be seen retreating already and mixed orders of "retreat" and "stand ground" can be heard. We don't get to see who gives the "retreat" order but the "stand ground" one seems to come from Tiberius (it is out of sync though, at least in my copy). I doubt that Sabinus would give the retreat order, it is very much out of character with what we have seen of him and I also doubt that he would give the opposite order to the one that Tiberius is giving, even more so considering that at this point Tiberius hasn't been injured yet.

    I can't tell that I cared much for him as a character either, but I think he has been upright as a soldier from the beginning to the end.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I expected the Sabinus-Tiberius relationship to be revealed, especially when Tiberius awoke. Now that Sabinus is dead, I guess not. It may still be revealed but the importance of such a revelation is surely diminished now that he is gone.
    Me too. I wonder if we were reading too much into it, but they seemed to have an understanding beyond long-lasting friendship. If we were right and it is revealed eventually, I agree that it'll lose the impact it would have had if Sabinus was alive while revealed.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I'm skeptical of the 'Tiberius is the son of Kore' thought; I can only see one possible way for that to be. First off Crassus' wife Tertulla values Tiberius and his younger brother. Tertulla clearly resents Kore, as evidenced by her remarks regarding the Caesar incident. This leads me to the only possibility I can find to support this theory; Tertulla can't have children. If she is infertile, such as Lucretia was initially thought to be, then it could be this is by far and away possible. This would also further her resentment of Kore, she not only gave birth to their children but has remained even though her 'purpose' has been served. Personally I just see her as a long time trustee of the Crassus household, perhaps a wet nurse of Tiberius?
    I don't have anything solid to base my suspicion on (other than what you have mentioned already) but she seems to take too much interest in Tiberius. I agree that a long time servant and possibly a wet nurse would develop strong feelings for the child to put her in that very same position of wishing the very best for him but it seems to be about the only thing that Kore talks to Crassus about. Far-fetched and all, it's a theory that I'm willing to see put to the test.
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    PenguinSuzie

    [9]Feb 25, 2013
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    Exciting episode! It seemed to go past very quickly.


    I really like the pirate guy. I felt really awful for the siblings. Agron sure is quick to get really jealous. This episode made me lose respect for Crassus, though at least he seemed shaken at the end. Poor Tiberius, he was pretty devastated. I think the reason he joined in was the orders like Sabinus said and to make his death much quicker.


    I'm really starting to hate Naevia. It was very satisfying to hear Gannicus call her a crazy b-ch. For a moment there I thought she was going to tell Crixus to side with Spartacus and not hurt the Romans but then she just said to destroy them all :/.


    I'm liking Gannicus more each episode.


    That blond rebel Nemetes is a terrible person. I agree that he was very confusing.


    Laeta at the end there made me a little emotional, her words about Spartacus' 'mercy' were quite potent.


    I don't like the girl that Gannicus saved. While I can see why she'd turn to him and try to help, it just seemed sort of empty and cruel. Seeing as all she'd done was hide them (and considering the kind of treatment and the danger that a lot of the unstable rebels put them in) it seems almost petty to sell her out for that.

    boom-moo wrote:
    Telling her to karpe diem because things might go back to what they were didn't certainly help Laeta's cause either.
    Good point. Did she really think that would encourage the girl to help her. Sibyl seemed quite emotionless though, her reasons for it came across more like 'well, yeah, whatever' than 'I won't let that happen'. Plus her hiding them wasn't actually going to help Crassus, it was really only ensuring that they'd survive until then. I think I just find it difficult to side with Sibyl because she seemed sort of blank about it and as if the only reason she was doing it was because she's gooey eyed over Gannicus.


    Did anyone else find the sex scene between Crassus and Kore almost funny, the lighting and music and slow motion gave it a kind of 'glory' feel, which I thought was pretty funny. Did she mention that they'd been together many times before, him ordering her to his bed as a slave without choice doesn't exactly make this a healthy relationship.

    boom-moo wrote:
    I'm glad that it was finally revealed that Attius had no part in the Romans escaping. It served to so many purposes, one of them the very anticipated Gannicus / Crixus confrontation which brought about a Crixus / Spartacus one and what seems to be the beginning of another division within the rebel ranks. That's quite interesting. Spartacus has been very clear that anyone who won't follow command, Crixus included, will be put to death so Crixus and his like either fold or leave. Crixus has mentioned about taking their own path... will they leave the city?
    I loved that this happened so soon. I hope Crixus doesn't leave. He's a fool if he thinks going up against Crassus' army up front will work in their favour.
    boom-moo wrote:
    I think that Spartacus is making a mistake saving Laeta's life, same as he did trusting her to start with.
    I think it could end badly for him. Bit I'm glad that he didn't kill her yet. This particular betrayal against him wasn't that bad IMO, especially considering the actions of his men and the fact that they'd probably be dead if she hadn't helped hide them.
    boom-moo wrote:
    On a lighter note I had to laugh at Agron's 'eww' face when the whore threw herself to his arms. Also very fitting of him to say that a woman's mind is a foreign thing.
    LOL. I suppose this confirms that he's gay rather than bisexual. Though it could have been because she was a drunken prostitute that was in his way. It's funny though.
    invisiblish wrote:
    I think Spartacus plans to remove the Roman slaves from the city. It's the only way I can think of that he can keep them safe and not have to kill them himself. If they are removed (via the Sicilians) then they have no more knowledge to spill, nor danger to fear. I don't see any use that he could possibly have for them, their pure presence brings confrontation and his power to subjugation.
    I think so. Though I don't see why Spartacus would trust them with so many lives. He doesn't care overly much for them but he certainly wouldn't want them to taken and sold as slaves or hurt/used however others saw fit, and he could never be sure what would happen to them once he handed them over to the pirates. It was weird that they mentioned the cargo would be profitable to them. I wonder if they mean to ransom them or something.
    boom-moo wrote:
    Anyway, I don't think that Caesar dares to dream that he can push the rebels into killing their leader, but he is surely enjoying the division and the confrontation and is being very smart in keeping it well alive for his best interest. It weakens the rebel army and that surely works in Crassus' favour.
    Especially if he can get a large portion of them to split away from Spartacus. If Crixus leaves, many will follow him.
    invisiblish wrote:
    I expected the Sabinus-Tiberius relationship to be revealed, especially when Tiberius awoke. Now that Sabinus is dead, I guess not. It may still be revealed but the importance of such a revelation is surely diminished now that he is gone.
    I really expected it to be revealed when they were in the tent talking about the stones. I agree that it will probably be less potent if it's revealed after this. It seems unlikely to happen anymore.

    Edited on 02/25/2013 10:09pm
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    invisiblish

    [10]Feb 25, 2013
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    Is it me or does Spartacus seemed uninterested in Naevia and her actions? He seemed to barely glance her way when Gannicus brought up Attius' innocence. In fact he didn't even give her a second look when she arose to Laeta explaining where they learned to kill and be so ruthless. I believe he is leaving the Roman Slaves in Agron/Nasir's care, while leaving Crixus and his men to Gannicus' charge. Not so much for Gannicus to give orders but for Gannicus to be watchful/mindful of. I think Gannicus will be forced now to step into a leadership role.


    I expect Spartacus to attack the grain supply as previously discussed. What I think will happen is that Crassus will receive word and begin to grow impatient. The fact that Spartacus himself could leave the city, attack their food supply, and return with their own food supplies will definitely infuriate Crassus. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he questioned Caesar's usefulness (albeit that Caesar is on his own, and Spartacus could in fact fail in his dealings... yea, BIG could).



    Edit: In light of Caesar's true mission, does his squabble with Tiberius not seem petty and foolish? He clearly knew of Crassus' motives before they began to argue over position. He was was receiving his 'mark' just as Tiberius entered the room to confront him on the subject. I highly doubt that Caesar would have a house slave cut into his leg (as the cut seemed deep enough) while not knowing what reason the wound serves. Perhaps Caesar intended to just rattle Tiberius for 's**ts and giggles' but then his anger of being passed over seems fruitless? Maybe I'm reading more into it but it seems a bit of a folly.

    Edited on 02/25/2013 10:11pm
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    boom-moo

    [11]Feb 26, 2013
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    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    Agron sure is quick to get really jealous.
    He seems to be but why was Nasir with Castus when he came to alert Spartacus of Crixus' actions? A bit odd of Nasir to keep the company of the man who makes Agron that jealous. Unless he wants to provoke another big love declaration/demonstration from Agron

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    This episode made me lose respect for Crassus, though at least he seemed shaken at the end.
    I gained a whole new level of respect for him in a creepy way. He keeps showing that he is not to be underestimated at all and that he is as powerful an adversary as Spartacus has ever met.

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    Laeta at the end there made me a little emotional, her words about Spartacus' 'mercy' were quite potent.
    They were. As I see it, sometimes a quick death is a bigger mercy than a life in bondage. Spartacus is a fool not to see that no matter how well he is to treat those Romans, they still will betray him as fast as they can. And even though Laeta has shown it to his face, I have a feeling that Spartacus hasn't learnt his lesson and will give her another chance to do so. Kist leave it to Caesar and Laeta to plot their next move...

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    I don't like the girl that Gannicus saved. While I can see why she'd turn to him and try to help, it just seemed sort of empty and cruel. Seeing as all she'd done was hide them (and considering the kind of treatment and the danger that a lot of the unstable rebels put them in) it seems almost petty to sell her out for that.
    Well, submissive as Sibyl still seems, remember that she was a slave (under the cruelest of masters no less) so she surely has her reasons and her very own motivation to wish those Romans well watched. Sibyl knows that Spartacus won't kill them and after Laeta's words, she did her best to avoid the master/slave situation to be reversed again and in a way that shouldn't have meant any harm to them not being for Crixus and Naevia having gone all "cray". Plus, as you said, she also did it to gain cookie points with Gannicus. She killed two birds with a stone.

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    Plus her hiding them wasn't actually going to help Crassus, it was really only ensuring that they'd survive until then.
    I'm not that sure that keeping Romans hidden (hence, unbound and unaccounted for) wouldn't help Crassus. Laeta keeps telling them that Crassus is at one day march from the city so the minute that Crassus moves to retake it, given the opportunity they'll raise against Spartacus and his men.

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    Did anyone else find the sex scene between Crassus and Kore almost funny, the lighting and music and slow motion gave it a kind of 'glory' feel, which I thought was pretty funny. Did she mention that they'd been together many times before, him ordering her to his bed as a slave without choice doesn't exactly make this a healthy relationship.
    I tend to like the lighting in the sex scenes a lot because it's masterfully done not to show more than wanted but this particular scene didn't leave anything to the imagination. About their relationship, since they have both developed feelings for each other, it doesn't compute to me as an ordinary master/slave relationship. She might not have a choice to say no but she is willing to be asked to his bed so it's not exactly the same as being forced every time. Might be some sort of Stockholm syndrom on her part or maybe it isn't, but she seems rather content with the state of things.

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    I hope Crixus doesn't leave. He's a fool if he thinks going up against Crassus' army up front will work in their favour.
    No matter how many men Crixus manages to rally he doesn't stand a chance against Crassus' army but (apart from his disagreement with Spartacus) he is growing restless and idleness makes him angry and nervous. I guess that he'd rather die fighting on his own terms than waiting to survive the winter inside the city and pray that Crassus won't make a move to retake it before the winter is over.

    PenguinSuzie wrote:
    boom-moo wrote:
    On a lighter note I had to laugh at Agron's 'eww' face when the whore threw herself to his arms. Also very fitting of him to say that a woman's mind is a foreign thing.
    LOL. I suppose this confirms that he's gay rather than bisexual.
    Daniel Feuerriegel confirmed it a while ago. From the moment that he was offered the part he was told that Agron was gay and that it would be explored in time. According to Dan he has been dropping hints from the beginning and even though I don't remember many of those, I don't recall him having shown any interest or out of place glance towards any woman either. He is as faithful as jealous, apparently.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Is it me or does Spartacus seemed uninterested in Naevia and her actions? He seemed to barely glance her way when Gannicus brought up Attius' innocence. In fact he didn't even give her a second look when she arose to Laeta explaining where they learned to kill and be so ruthless.
    I think that he doesn't care much about Naevia's words and threats as long as they don't get a reaction from Crixus. He can slap Naevia quiet whereas Crixus is a different story. That's what irks me about Naevia: she doesn't stand a chance in a fight unless she is fighting someone untrained so she uses Crixus as her hand and her will. And it's too bad of Crixus that he concedes every time although to be fair, I think that Crixus is usually of the same opinion and needs not much convincing. However he wasn't all that pleased when she cut the baker's hand and maybe things wouldn't have escalated this far (or rather, this fast) not being for that trigger although I think that it was a matter of time.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I think Gannicus will be forced now to step into a leadership role.
    I think so. Crixus is falling from Spartacus' grace so Gannicus is gonna have to step up and stick around Spartacus a lot more than around drink and women.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Edit: In light of Caesar's true mission, does his squabble with Tiberius not seem petty and foolish? He clearly knew of Crassus' motives before they began to argue over position. Perhaps Caesar intended to just rattle Tiberius for 's**ts and giggles' but then his anger of being passed over seems fruitless? Maybe I'm reading more into it but it seems a bit of a folly.
    Good point, it seems a bit overdone in hindsight indeed. While Crassus had come up with a way to test both men, Caesar knew of Tiberius' role but Tiberius didn't know of Caesar's one so I guess that Caesar wasn't up for being diminished in front of a boy's eyes and enduring his mockery.
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    invisiblish

    [12]Feb 27, 2013
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    If you remember from Blood and Sand, Agron really never had any interaction with anyone but his brother. Faithful indeed, he set aside all other matters than protecting his brother. Right up to his brother protecting him, Agron never waivered in his goal of sole protector of his brother, even going so far as to ask Spartacus to aid in the attempt after they were separated. I do wonder, as there were plentiful scenes, if at some point Ashur offered women to Agron as he did Crixus, Spartacus, and, Varro. Although not seen, filming could have been done to express his sexuality though removed for timing or whatever reason editing should impose. Truth be told I wondered to begin with if Agron and Duro were really brothers of blood relation or of something else.
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    boom-moo

    [13]Feb 27, 2013
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    I think that more than a case where certain scenes ended up cut it might be that, as you say, the fact that Agron hardly had any interaction with anyone else (particulary women) was meant to hint at him being gay from the get go. I never suspected about Agron and Duro being anything more than friends though.

    Anyway, sorry for not having provided with a link before (I often lose track of most of the stuff that I read around) but this is the interview that I was referring to.
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    invisiblish

    [14]Feb 27, 2013
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    The only thing I could really see that made me question anything about the 2 were their hair styles. Crazy as it sounds they seemed to have radical hair cuts (almost like mohawks?) where as most everyone was short haired, balled or longer gritty hair, ala Barca. Besides that I believe Duro had and earring of sorts but nothing really big to direct anything more.

    I did find Nasir and Agron an odd match, as it was Nasir that furthered the Crixus-Agron feud of sorts by revealing the truth of Naevia. I'm glad Agron didn't hold a grudge as he and Nasir are highly entertaining and likable. Especially when you consider Crixus/Naevia as their counter parts. Though if they were forced to fight (bit of a fanboy moment here) I believe the Gannicus/Saxa combination would easily lay waste to Agron/Nasir and defeat Crixus/Naevia combinations. Fierce and intimidating but not skillfully threatening I'd say.
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    boom-moo

    [15]Feb 27, 2013
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    I was fond of Agron's combination of mohawk with sort of rastafari, their different hairdo told the brothers apart nicely. Looking back it also made Agron look younger which is quite fitting.

    Agron and Nasir seemed an odd match to me as well and when Agron started to "court" Nasir I remember thinking that it'd be a really mistmatched pairing. However when they became canon they grew on me really fast as a couple and now I find that mistmatch endearing and one of their strengths.

    I undertand Agron's reasons for lying to Crixus but I was glad when Nasir told him the truth about Naevia's whereabouts and even more so that even though Nasir decided to remain and help in her rescuing, their feelings for each other didn't change with separation and most likely grew stronger. I think that the circumstances in which they were reunited helped a big deal in prompting the match as soon as Nasir was recovered.
    invisiblish wrote:
    he and Nasir are highly entertaining and likable. Especially when you consider Crixus/Naevia as their counter parts.
    I fully agree.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Though if they were forced to fight (bit of a fanboy moment here) I believe the Gannicus/Saxa combination would easily lay waste to Agron/Nasir and defeat Crixus/Naevia combinations. Fierce and intimidating but not skillfully threatening I'd say.
    Yup, I think that Gannicus and Saxa would defeat the other two pairings but (bit of a fangirl moment here) I think that Agron and Nasir and Crixus/Naevia would be quite on par with each other.

    I'm very pleased with Agron's decision to remain at Spartacus' side (to the point of becoming his shadow, untrusting of Crixus and his men) since he was of a mind with the Gaul about leaving Sinuessa and press on for Crassus and his army.

    Has Agron spoke his mind about being for or against killing the Romans in Sinuessa? I remember Gannicus agreeing with Crixus on that matter but I can't recall if Agron has said anything about it.
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    invisiblish

    [16]Feb 27, 2013
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    Now that you mention it... Agron hasn't said a thing about it, nor has he really interacted with them other than not liking Laeta. I'm guessing he agrees with Crixus as well but feels like Gannicus: Spartacus leads and gives the orders, they follow. It's possible that he made a couple remarks when Spartacus and Lugo were discussing the grain but I'm not sure.

    I get the feeling that Agron's duties concerning Spartacus will lead to Agron and Nasir splintering. Pretty sad though...

    Crixus and Naevia vs Agron and Nasir... I'm not sure that Nasir could overcome Naevia. Sad to say as it is, the match would hinder on Nasir being able to aid Agron in a fight with Crixus. I like Agron, I've liked him since he first came to the show (a replacement for Varro if you will), but he has never been on the same level as Spartacus and Crixus. If Naevia goes all psycho, which she is sure to do (that scene with Crassus' messengers was proof enough of that) Nasir may be overwhelmed by her wild nature.
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    boom-moo

    [17]Feb 28, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    Now that you mention it... Agron hasn't said a thing about it, nor has he really interacted with them other than not liking Laeta. I'm guessing he agrees with Crixus as well but feels like Gannicus: Spartacus leads and gives the orders, they follow.
    That's how I see him too, even more so after he decided not to support Spartacus rescuing Naevia from the mines. I should rewatch the previous episodes and see if he positioned himself seeing as both Gannicus and Crixus did.

    Edit: Did my homework

    Episode 3

    Around 02’00

    Agron: (About Attius) I do not lay trust in that little shit.
    Spartacus: You do not lay trust in anyone.
    Agron: More so when they carry name of Rome.

    Around 02’40

    Agron: We are at war, Spartacus. I would see our enemy struck to the afterlife.
    Spartacus: Women and children counted among them?
    Agron: Were the same not robbed of life in escape from Batiatus' villa? Or the taking of this very city?
    Spartacus: They were. Yet few that remain pose no fall to concern.
    Agron: They pose concern to fucking stomach drawing from our food which runs low from Aedile dousing pitch upon grain.
    Spartacus: Let us gauge our stores. And turn from thought of needless slaughter.

    Agron wanted them dead like Crixus and Gannicus and would march out of Sinuessa to engage Crissus in battle like Crixus. Regardless, I think that Agron and Gannicus will remain by Spartacus' side no matter what.

    invisiblish wrote:
    I get the feeling that Agron's duties concerning Spartacus will lead to Agron and Nasir splintering. Pretty sad though...
    I don't see that happening if anything to avoid the same storyline coming to pass twice. I think that both Agron and Nasir are gonna remain by Spartacus' side until the end and that the drama involving them as couple would come from other sources (Agron's jealousy or whichever other).

    invisiblish wrote:
    Crixus and Naevia vs Agron and Nasir... I'm not sure that Nasir could overcome Naevia. Sad to say as it is, the match would hinder on Nasir being able to aid Agron in a fight with Crixus. I like Agron, I've liked him since he first came to the show (a replacement for Varro if you will), but he has never been on the same level as Spartacus and Crixus. If Naevia goes all psycho, which she is sure to do (that scene with Crassus' messengers was proof enough of that) Nasir may be overwhelmed by her wild nature.
    Nope, Agron isn't on par with Spartacus, Crixus and Gannicus at all but seeing how Gannicus only needed to make Naevia trip and fall when she tried to aid Crixus last week... (I seriously lmao-ed at that) I'm not sure her rage and madness help her much when it comes to fighting.
    Edited on 02/28/2013 8:08am
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    invisiblish

    [18]Feb 28, 2013
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    I didn't mean that Nasir would agree with Crixus. I meant more so that Agron, as he just was, will have to do much bidding of Spartacus (ie. running things while he is away in the next episode) leading to his own jealousy and rage left unchecked. As is right now they spend little time together, Nasir training the newly arrived, Agron aiding Spartacus in his plans. Add the fall of grace for Crixus and the workload shifts more to Agron.

    It's like 2 college students, both have jobs and things to do. They enjoy their time together but after one of them gets a promotion or starts working more, they have less and less time together.
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    boom-moo

    [19]Feb 28, 2013
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    Sorry I didn't understand you. I see your point and I agree, Agron's jealousy might run unchecked by getting busier and losing track of Nasir's whereabouts for a big chunk of the day. So far Nasir has been patient and cool-headed, but he might not want to carry on putting up with Agron's temper to teach him a lesson or maybe because he's had his fill. I don't see them at odds for long though.

    Being the last season death should be what separates them and I don't think they'll suffer each other's loss having split up first.
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