Episode 8 'Separate Paths' discussion thread

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    boom-moo

    [1]Mar 21, 2013
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    Please post your opinions/comments/discussion topics on episode 8 "Separate Paths" to air on March 22nd here.

    -Spoilers are not allowed.
    -Bashing ships/characters is not allowed.
    -Discussion is welcome, arguing is not.
    -Trolls won't be fed, ignore and report it is.
    -Be respecful, keep it cool.



    Thank you

    (As per usual, I'll open a discussion thread for every new episode every Thursday and keep it locked until Friday. Past experience shows that comments posted before the episode airs tend to spoil the episode for spoiler free people and also, episode discussion threads that are opened days before their airing date tend to end up buried and reopened by different users which leads to confusion and clutter. Any comments regarding this episode should be done in the Spoilers thread until the episode has aired. Thank you.)
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  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [2]Mar 22, 2013
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    So I have just begun the episode and already 6 minutes in Spartacus has done what he has failed to do for so long now: care-take Crixus. I don't mean keeping the Roman off his back, I mean explaining why he wanted the other Roman alive, allowing him to persuade the Roman to talk, and finally to finish the Roman off.

    I'm especially impressed with his smirk when replying to request of sparing the Roman's life.
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    boom-moo

    [3]Mar 22, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    So I have just begun the episode and already 6 minutes in
    Don't read what I've just posted until you've watched in full!
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    invisiblish

    [4]Mar 22, 2013
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    EDIT: I forgot to mention Naevia... way to go!!! (SARCASM) Crixus directs a retreat, she convinces him to fight on to victory. I'll watch it again to confirm this but it definitely seemed like he was making a decision to reform his ranks rather than charge UP the hillside.



    I actually closed the browser until I finished the episode but I'm glad I saw this reply first. Wow.

    I knew when Crixus was speaking on the ridge that he would be Crassus' target. Spartacus speaking to Gannicus only confirmed it for me.

    First off... Wow Tiberius and Crassus have gone off the deep end now. Crassus seems to have regained his composher, but Tiberius is taking his hatred to new limits. I actually really pity Caesar, it was almost telegraphed what would happen when Caesar interrupted Tiberius' meal. As for the episode... I'm glad that Spartacus and Crixus celebrated in 'honored tradition'. Anyone else notice that this is the first 'drink' Spartacus has partaken in? I may be mistaken but I believe he has denied drinks, much like Oenomaus, up to this point.

    It was heartbreaking to watch Agron and Nasir separated so. Even worse to see confirmed Agron's fears, Castus wasn't truly at fault for seeking Nasir's affections. However I was very humored by Saxa and her comments to Gannicus; humor was much needed in an episode that was seemingly filled with turmoil.

    I was hoping, and now I'm glad they did not, that more warriors would join Crixus' cause. Saxa and Lugo come to mind, but they have, as they have since Vesuvius, been at Spartacus' side.

    I guess the disappointing death I foresaw goes to Agron. Not disgraceful but disappointing without fault. To fall to Tiberius before he could engage Caesar, fall without a true brother by his side, and to fall without a proper fight... very disappointing and tragic.

    And then there is Crixus. I thought for a second he was going to fight Crassus himself and then lose in some fashion. Falling in a very similar way to Agron was disappointing, especially since he had gained the upperhand against Caesar. I'm glad he fell with a smile on his face, at least he was happy to have Naevia in sight during his last moments.

    Random other notes:

    Glad to see that Kore was discovered (and also very very useful), brought validity to her joining the Rebels. I'm curious as to if/when she will die. I'm thinking now that she may live to be confronted by Crassus who might become enraged and kill Tiberius himself.

    If you watch the ending credits, the pictures shown (Spartacus, Crixus, Agron, Gannicus and what follows) you'll notice that each group fades into its current state. This may be intentional from the episode, but I believe the credits have been unchanged. Well played gents, well played. This also happens with Crassus: his wife and younger son are replaced by Caesar and Tiberius. Also with the roman slave girl whom Nemetes imprisioned, she fades to reveal the final image of Nemetes shortly after dropping her body at Crixus' feet.

    Am I the only one who wishes that there would be an 'afterlife' meeting of the characters?


    Forever RIP Crixus and Agron!!!

    Edited on 03/22/2013 10:48pm
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  • Avatar of Swift79b

    Swift79b

    [7]Mar 23, 2013
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    Well, well, well... this show never ceases to surprise me. Where do I even begin?

    I thought the start was promissing - our band of rebels fighting off another another advance of Crassus and his troops, Crixus and Naevia getting their sought after bloodlust and... Crassus, pounding Metellus in a blinded reaction to the Senator's words. (have to admit, the last one was really surprising and one of my favourite moments this episode)
    The show was filled with memorable moments for our band of rebels, as if preparing us for a final goodbye to some of them.

    No doubt I had an inkling that this would be the episode we would see Spartacus and Crixus going their separate ways but the little unexpected moments caught me off guard:
    - Crassus
    For the first time, we see him falling apart because of Kore's absence. Relentlessly pursuing Spartacus even if his men were run down, pounding on Metellus, and the constant looks of uncertainty are all uncharacteristic traits for him. Though, in the end, he returned to his usual self by doing what I expected of him - dealing the final blow and crushing Crixus and his rebellion. Great to see Crassus falling down from his horse and fighting one-on-one with the rebels!
    - Caesar and Tiberius
    Even before starting to write, I am unease at how the events turned out for both of them. It was great to see Tiberius pulling Caesar back from the argument between Crassus and Metellus (if we can call it that!). But things went downhill from that moments onwards. Caesar, like the "wolf" he is, keeps circling and goading Tiberius. (not that I can blame him) The unfolding instability of Crassus due to Kore's departure has left Caesar preoccupied for the first time. His ultimate confrontation with Tiberius was inevitable - there have been hints since last episode but the way things turned out came as a shock to me (after all, he is Julius Fucking Caesar!!). The rational decision, made by Caesar, to keep true events from Crassus came with devastating repercussions for himself. I had a bad feeling when Tiberius attacked Caesar and then the guards grabbed him... but I would have never imagined that Tiberius would have turned into the show's veteran rapist!! Even as this scene is unfolding in front of me, two things came to mind: the rape of Kore, a vulnerable slave AND having 2 guards pinning Caesar down for the ultimate humiliation. (even in doing that he doesn't seem to show any strength at all!) I see nothing but weakness in Tiberius' character. He is still seeking the approval of his father and he is still much afraid of the repercussions of what he did to Kore. I cannot wait to see what Caesar will do next.....
    - Agron
    Not only he came out of Spartacus' shadow (who would have thought!?) but then he told his beloved Nasir that he would rather see him following Spartacus and the promise of future happiness than to join his side in battle alongside Crixus. Somehow I think he knew death would be the final chapter for all of them. I know there was more emphasis on the love shared between Naevia and Crixus this episode, but somehow this small gesture was even more heartfelt for me. But the icing on the cake was that he was one the first major characters to die! My money was on Naevia! I am gutted that Agron died first, without his brothers by his side. I expected a little showdown - maybe Agron and Crixus fighting with their backs pressed against each other...
    - Crixus
    Finally making the decision to march on Rome, without Spartacus by his side. Since that moment, I felt there was an impeding doom cast upon all who would follow him. Tender moments between Crixus and Naevia, and the dream it would have been to have a normal life away from it all... but such things do not last long in this show. His initial success when marching towards Rome was expected for me, but the final battle held many surprises for our band of rebels. After defeating, once again, the Romans, Crixus begins to celebrate and then he hears the sound of horns - "did you really think it would have been that easy?", I thought. As everyone starts falling (poor Agron goes down first), Crixus tells everyone to fall back to higher ground but it is much too late for them. Crixus being slayed by Tiberius?! Did not see that coming at all! Yet in his final moments there was a peaceful and serene look in his eyes, an endearing moment for such an end. (one can only imagine how Naevia will meet her end now!)
    - Spartacus
    Good on him for finally letting Crixus go along with everyone who wanted more bloodshed. Gannicus staying by his side was not surprising for me, but Saxa and Lugo standing by him was somewhat surprising. Spartacus is finally revealing the different man he has become and his admission that he's had his share of roman blood has long been awaited by me. Spartacus and Laeta's intimate moment? No surprise there! lol
    - Kore
    Finally discovered, she made her reasons clear... but I still have my doubts. Is it just me or did anyone else find the intel Crassus had dead on accurate? Maybe I'm trying to find the final trick/deception but I still think there is more to Kore (and the intel Crassus has) than it meets the eye.

    As there seems to be an impeding doom and despair surrounding the remaining rebels, I cannot wait to see what Tiberius, Crassus and Caesar will do next...

    RIP Agron and Crixus! (I will miss them both)
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  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [9]Mar 23, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    EDIT: I forgot to mention Naevia... way to go!!! (SARCASM) Crixus directs a retreat, she convinces him to fight on to victory. I'll watch it again to confirm this but it definitely seemed like he was making a decision to reform his ranks rather than charge UP the hillside.
    I don't think she changed his mind. Crixus first decides to attack from the flanks and she spurrs him on. Later on he decides to regroup so they can attack from higher ground and she follows him but they are cut short in the attempt.

    Wow, what a wicked episode! I really can't wait to rewatch because I have the feeling that something has slipped past me.

    Really glad (so to speak) that Spartacus and Crixus could talk things out and take their separate paths without anger. I can see how every side of the argument is valid and I think that new born baby was the last straw for Spartacus but I had the feeling from the get go that Crixus's side was doomed. There aren't many rebels who can fight and they are exhausted and starved, they really are no match against Crassus' forces.

    By the way, and on the subject of rebels who can fight, I was greatly surprised to see some new faces there, several women among them. I was also surprised that out of the "named rebels" only Agron joined Crixus but since they were to be wiped off by the Romans I guess it makes sense that most of the well-known faces are yet to be around for the last two episodes.

    Awfully heartbroken at seeing Crixus fall in that way. I would have expected a better matched one to one epic fight with Tiberius like the one he held with Caesar, I'm disappointed. His final moment was sadly beautiful though, at least he got to stare at Naevia before closing his eyes forever. He seemed kind of at peace.

    Naevia has been spared to send Crixus' head as a message to Spartacus. That's gonna be quite something to behold.

    Agron, ouch. For a moment I thought that he might have embraced a life in freedom (his show is so brilliantly and cleverly written that every turn of phrase has me swinging from a notion to its opposite) but he preferred going on a as good as suicide mission to grant the man he loves another day and another chance to escape and be free, even if that involves losing him to death or to Castus or to both *hats off* And well, as per the preview he is wounded (again Tiberius!) and not dead and there's some further ouching in store for him... let's leave it at that.

    Pretty moving when Crixus asked what's beneath their feet as he was rallying his forces and Agron replied "sacred ground". I bet he was keeping Duro in mind. Also when Spartacus and Crixus recalled Batiatus' advice that a man had to accept his fate or be destroyed by it. Really nice winks to the past.

    Castus, I am not impressed. I don't think that Nasir has ever acknowledged any kind of interest towards him as Castus claims (did I miss something there!?). I wish that Nasir wouldn't have just fall silent at the end of Castus discourse, I want to think that it was meant to build up to the Nagron break-up drama instead of being any kind of hint that Agron was right in his seemingly past over-reactions.

    Gannicus/Sybil/Saxa, I think that Saxa is way more hurt than she lets show. When she told Gannicus that he would break Sibyl (and then come back to her or something like that, I need to rewatch) was a good attempt to make him reconsider.

    Spartacus and Laeta... alrighty then. I guess I would try and live my life to the fullest as well.

    Looks like I'm alone here but I totally didn't see such a turn of events for Caesar. Tiberius is but a coward and since events didn't obviously sit up well with Caesar the payback is something that I'm really looking forward to.

    Kore... I'm really puzzled with the way events are unfolding. Crassus is really losing it whenever she is mentioned (punching Senator Metellus like that? I loved it!) but I'm with Swift79b and still think that there's more than meets the eye.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Am I the only one who wishes that there would be an 'afterlife' meeting of the characters?
    Well, I would tune in for one
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  • Avatar of headtoad

    headtoad

    [10]Mar 24, 2013
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    one word EXCELLENT what a episode Crixus when out a hero i know the show will end soon but i want it to go on and on

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    invisiblish

    [11]Mar 25, 2013
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    So I rewatched part of the episode and found these interesting:

    Crixus complained to Spartacus in the previous episode about not dying with a Roman Sword in his back... as fate would have it, he held the sword so instead got a spear in his back.

    Kore, just after Agron comments on the boy's size, replies that she wishes he would only use it on the willing. Clearly a comment towards her experiences with Tiberius but a good foreshadow of Caesar's coming discomfort.

    As for Caesar, while Tiberius jumped to conclusion on Caesar, it's clear that he is still fearful of Caesar's information. As soon as Caesar mentioned Kore he accused Caesar of treachery. In a clear state of mind he would have obliged Caesar to 'cover his own ...' His actions were effective enough, but the repercussions of such should be clear. If not his actions alone, his own decisions are clear enough that he will never measure up to his father.


    Edit: I mentioned Naevia in the 'Death ...' post, it was a touching moment to see her and Crixus have an intimate conversation, especially when she teared up looking at the newborn boy. Sad to say but Crixus and Naevia were severely lacking in intimacy since their reunion, specifically this season.


    Also mentioned was the fate of Agron, I'm glad that he will be honored. I'm also glad that he will have good byes with Spartacus and Nasir. If he were to die without these moments, then I will be eternally pissed at his even living to the next episode. His being honored honors all the rebels whom died by Crixus' side. As a result of their effort, any and all slaves that live from Spartacus' owe their lives to Crixus' men. No matter what Spartacus thought, Crassus was well prepared to march on the group and through the mountains to get each and every slave. He would, as he seems to be doing, march on Spartacus' group just to find Kore and answers (glad to see that he suspects something treacherous).

    Edited on 03/26/2013 5:29am
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    boom-moo

    [12]Mar 26, 2013
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    invisiblish wrote:
    Crixus complained to Spartacus in the previous episode about not dying with a Roman Sword in his back... as fate would have it, he held the sword so instead got a spear in his back.
    Indeed, it added to my disappointment.

    invisiblish wrote:
    Kore, just after Agron comments on the boy's size, replies that she wishes he would only use it on the willing. Clearly a comment towards her experiences with Tiberius but a good foreshadow of Caesar's coming discomfort.
    It also ties nicely with her upcoming exchange with Spartacus when she explains why she fled. She didn't need many words or details for Spartacus to immediately understand what she meant (or at least it was my impression that Spartacus caught her meaning pretty fast).

    invisiblish wrote:
    Also mentioned was the fate of Agron, I'm glad that he will be honored. I'm also glad that he will have good byes with Spartacus and Nasir. If he were to die without these moments, then I will be eternally pissed at his even living to the next episode. His being honored honors all the rebels whom died by Crixus' side.
    Honored as in burnt in the pyre? I think that's Crixus' head (Naevia's life is spared so she can bring Crassus' message to Spartacus after all) and I can't see a body attached to it.
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  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [13]Mar 26, 2013
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    I didn't freeze frame the burning too much, I figured it was Agron's body. I'm not going to lie though... for him to survive a wound from Tiberius and a crucifixion would be well out of character for the series. Especially if they all survive to the final episode. Hate to say it but Agron would be pretty deathly during a 'final battle' anyway. I'd rather see him have a heartfelt good bye or 2 and then be honored with the blood of Romans.

    I do agree with the theory that Castus will probably die heroically saving Nasir. I don't think we have anything against him, we just wish for our heroes to have happiness during their lives, especially those who have lost someone so dear. I took Nasir's lack of rebuttal toward Castus' remarks as admission of interest. Do I think Nasir would ever leave Agron? Absolutely not. I just think that Nasir is attracted to Castus and in a normal situation the strain on the relationship would tear Agron and Nasir apart.

    This 2 weeks off is killing me. I'm so excited for the next episode and so many ideas flood the mind about what could should and probably will happen. What's worse (or amazing, depending on your outlook) is that most predictions have been completely off. Very few predictions have been remotely close, at least mine anyway. I've restricted myself to the episode information only, including previews.
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    boom-moo

    [14]Mar 27, 2013
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    I don't think that we are going to see anyone (any of the main characters, that is) surviving the final battle (it might be hinted that Spartacus could have though) but I think that Agron is gonna be left alive until he can have closure on the Nasir / Castus situation (as per my theory in the "death" thread). I guess that he could survive his wound (looked like a bad gash to me) but not the crucifixion hence my theory that since it's Caesar the one crufifying him, Spartacus is gonna save the day there, free Agron and capture Caesar in the process (hence the prisoners trade offered by Caesar as seen in the preview, no way that someone badly wounded and crucified is gonna make it or be counted as elligible for the trade unless specifically requested so and for all Spartacus knows, via Naevia, Agron is dead). I'm with you that he would hardly be in any shape to keep fighting with much chance of success.

    invisiblish wrote:
    This 2 weeks off is killing me. I'm so excited for the next episode and so many ideas flood the mind about what could should and probably will happen. What's worse (or amazing, depending on your outlook) is that most predictions have been completely off. Very few predictions have been remotely close, at least mine anyway. I've restricted myself to the episode information only, including previews.
    Ugh, me too. And lol, I'm always way off in my predictions as well too so I really hope I start doing better
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