What if...

  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [1]Mar 16, 2013
    • member since: 01/17/07
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 657

    Everyone here should, especially by now, know that Andy Whitfield died (RIP). This led to recasting the lead roll of Spartacus and the entire creation of the Gods of the Arena series, from which we gained the character Gannicus.


    My question to start this off is simply this: How different would the entire series be had he lived and continued starring? I've heard and read rumors that Lucretia and even Ilithyia were meant to die at the end of Blood and Sand. These little changes inspire an entire different story line. Glabur would still remain the main antagonist, his being joined by Ashur would be easy to see but the entire story line is changed with just Lucretia missing. Does Ashur die during the season? What of Oenomaus, does he die?


    Finally on a slightly different note: Has anyone noticed that Vengeance and War of the Damned have been more of an ensemble piece since Liam's taking over the role? Perhaps this is because of Spartacus' new role as a complex visionary, or just a change in directorial staff. I just noticed it during the last couple episodes how Spartacus is less the center of each episode and more of a side character compared to his fellow Rebels. Of course it is fair to say that this change would happen regardless as Spartacus Seasons 2+ would have to rely less on introducing Spartacus to us and making him the story centerpiece and rely more upon storytelling and other character development.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [2]Mar 16, 2013
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,676
    Funny that you asked because in the past 4 days I've rewatched Gods of the Arena, Blood and Sand and Vengeance in full and the thing is that Marcus Crassus is mentioned all the time during Blood and Sand and also during Vengeance, which upon rewatching with present knowledge has a big impact.

    It leads me to believe that the main storylines were well defined from the beginning although I guess that some changes were made along the way as it is almost always the case. I don't know about Lucretia and Ilithyia being meant to die at the end of Blood and Sand though but in any case, how would Andy's death (RIP) have had any bearing over killing them or not? When they filmed the Blood and Sand finale no one could ever imagine that Andy would not be around to take on the role. Sorry that I'm not following your reasoning.

    I think that Vengeance and War of the Damned feel more like an ensemble piece because the main characters were well established already by then and also because both happen out of the ludus which gives opportunity for more storytelling and character development as you point out.

    ____________

    By the way, by rewatching I was meaning to tell you that Agron and Duro are referred to as "Germans" (not just as from the East of the Nile). From the very begining, when Batiatus buys them, they carry some sort of "label" that indicates their name and land which is stated as "Germania". Likewise, Saxa, Lugo, Donar, Nemetes, etc... (all those from the ship that Agron chose to liberate) are referred to as his kin, his brothers and his people and it's clear that Agron favoured the ship because it came from his land.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [3]Mar 16, 2013
    • member since: 01/17/07
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 657

    I think I saw it during the behind the scenes or something but I believe Lucretia wasn't meant for Vengeance. If I remember correctly she was brought back due to the change in Spartacus' portrayal (Andy-Liam). Familiar faces make the process much easier.


    I agree that the end game was always to include Crassus, he was mentioned throughout the series. I was actually becoming annoyed that his name was dropped yet he remained unseen for much of the series. To make just a cameo when Glabur and Illithyia were in Rome wouldn't have been so poor. Nor would his appearance to spite Glabur's attempts be out of character.


    Overall my point remains that much of the season included Gannicus who didn't even exist at Blood and Sand's completion.



    Edit: Found the information on IMDb, says DeKnight made the decision because of Andy's departure and the recasting of Naevia. It is more than possible that this is just more 'Wikipedia' type information however.

    Edited on 03/16/2013 10:14pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [4]Mar 17, 2013
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,676
    Regardless if the information is well sourced it makes sense to bring old faces to make up for several new ones.

    invisiblish wrote:

    Overall my point remains that much of the season included Gannicus who didn't even exist at Blood and Sand's completion.

    Yes but they didn't need to bring Gannicus back in Vengeance if they didn't want to regardless of Andy not starring any longer. Gannicus was free and out and about after all. Unless you mean that he was also brought back like Lucretia to balance out the new faces?
    Edited on 03/17/2013 7:29am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of invisiblish

    invisiblish

    [5]Mar 18, 2013
    • member since: 01/17/07
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 657
    I think Gannicus was brought back to bring meaning to Gods of the Arena. While Gods of the Arena gave back story to Crixus, Oenomaus, and Lucretia, the overall story wasn't terribly effected. Except with the existence of the Gannicus character the entire thing becomes important. I think of it like creating something in a time of need (hoping to give time for Andy to recover from his first bout) and then making that something meaningful to the rest of the creation, taking advantage of it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of boom-moo

    boom-moo

    [6]Apr 6, 2013
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 75
    • rank: Rowdy Roddy Piper
    • posts: 135,676
    Steven DeKnight has just confirmed that Gannicus was planned all along (even if there wouldn't have been any need for Gods of the Arena) Source but that the Gannicus / Oenomaus storyline wouldn't have been the same without the prequel Source
    Edited on 04/07/2013 6:55am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.