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Dimensional Prime Directive

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    beowulf579

    [1]Jun 27, 2006
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    There is the Prime Directive and the Temporal Prime Directive. I just wondered if there was ever a Dimensional Prime Directive? Picard once described that violating the Prime Directive, no matter how just it may seem, always caused harm. That can certainly be said of extra-dimensional interference;

    1. Species 8472- The Borg entered into their dimension and nearly wiped out not only them, but pretty much the whole galaxy

    2. Paralles- When the dimensional boundaries collapse and revealed a Enterprise that came from a Borg conquered universe, it tried to destroy Worf so he couldn't repair the rift. If it had suceeded, the multiverse could have been destoryed.

    3. The Alternate Universe- where to begin....
    A. The Defiant- by mistake, crossed over and drastically changed the course of history in the Alternate Universe
    B. Capt Kirk- talked alternate universe Spock into bringing about a more passive Terran Empire. This resulted all of humanity in that universe to be slaves.
    C. The Orbs- If not for Major Kira, the altenate Kira would have stolen a Bajorian Orb. Seeing how the Emissary and the prophets were so in tuned with the Orbs, a loss of one could have broken down everything.

    Anyway....I never saw where there was a Dimensional Prime Directive...was there ever one in the novels??

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    alex20020712

    [2]Jun 28, 2006
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    There is the Prime Directive and the Temporal Prime Directive. I just wondered if there was ever a Dimensional Prime Directive? Picard once described that violating the Prime Directive, no matter how just it may seem, always caused harm.


    When did he say that?
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    beowulf579

    [3]Jun 28, 2006
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    If memory serves me, it was from NG episode "Pen Pals" were Data wanted to assist a dying world.
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    alex20020712

    [4]Jun 28, 2006
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    If memory serves me, it was from NG episode "Pen Pals" were Data wanted to assist a dying world.


    Nope, I checked. Picard broke the Prime Directive several times. If he thought this *always* caused more harm than good, why would he do it? In fact, in this and other episodes like "Justice," they make the point that the Prime Directive is not meant to be followed blindly, at any cost.

    Kirk did the same. This is what Asimov's Salvor Hardin stated as "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." Sometimes the moral and right thing to do is to break the law. Then again, it takes someone like Data, Picard and Kirk to know when this must be done.
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    beowulf579

    [5]Jun 28, 2006
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    alex20020712 wrote:
    beowulf579 wrote:
    If memory serves me, it was from NG episode "Pen Pals" were Data wanted to assist a dying world.


    Nope, I checked. Picard broke the Prime Directive several times. If he thought this *always* caused more harm than good, why would he do it? In fact, in this and other episodes like "Justice," they make the point that the Prime Directive is not meant to be followed blindly, at any cost.

    Kirk did the same. This is what Asimov's Salvor Hardin stated as "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." Sometimes the moral and right thing to do is to break the law. Then again, it takes someone like Data, Picard and Kirk to know when this must be done.


    Actually, in "Pen Pals" he did order Data to sever communications with his friend because of the Prime Directive. It was only when Picard actually heard this that he changed his mind.

    But I will admit...I was wrong about which episode I was thinking of. The correct episode was "Symbiosis"

    "The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules; it is a philosophy... and a very correct one. History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."
    Captain Picard
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    alex20020712

    [6]Jun 28, 2006
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    "The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules; it is a philosophy... and a very correct one. History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."
    Captain Picard


    Yet, Picard goes on to break the Prime Directive several times. Why? It was not disastrous in those cases, was it?
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    beowulf579

    [7]Jun 29, 2006
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    Well, he upheld the Prime Directive in "Symbiosis".

    In "Pen Pals" we have to wait and see. The results of their helping haven't been shown yet.

    When Picard and company accidentally polluted a proto vulcan ppl, it nearly destroyed their culture.

    Also, Picard was speaking more in terms of the past when he ws talking in "Symbiosis".
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    alex20020712

    [8]Jun 30, 2006
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    Well, he upheld the Prime Directive in "Symbiosis".

    In "Pen Pals" we have to wait and see. The results of their helping haven't been shown yet.


    We do know what the results are. They saved those aliens. If those aliens eventually evolve into a galactic empire and destroy the Federation, we do not know, but then again, no one could know.

    Furthermore, the Federation did not violate the Prime Directive when it helped the Klingons in ST6. What if helping the Klingons then was also a "bad" choice in the long run? Again, no one could know, so the Prime Directive is not the only variable here.

    The Prime Directive is not designed to be fool-proof, or to predict the future.

    In the case of Pen Pals, Picard saved those aliens. He did not make contact with them, or give them technology to advance faster than they would otherwise. So, the "violation" here is merely technical. What those aliens become in the future is up to them.

    Making contact or giving technology to a less developed race would be a far more serious violation, since this really does interfere with the natural development of that race.

    beowulf579 wrote:
    When Picard and company accidentally polluted a proto vulcan ppl, it nearly destroyed their culture.


    The dangers of breaking the Prime Directive are clear. No one is saying this is a bad law. What we have seen, however, is that following laws blindly and rigidly is not always the moral or the right thing to do.
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    beowulf579

    [9]Jun 30, 2006
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    I agree that the Prime Directive shouldn't be followed blindly. I was just wondering if there ever was, or should be, a Dimensional Prime Directive.
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    alex20020712

    [10]Jul 1, 2006
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    With infinite dimensions, how would it be enforced? Not to mention, why? If every possible quantum "reality" exists...
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    beowulf579

    [11]Jul 1, 2006
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    alex20020712 wrote:
    With infinite dimensions, how would it be enforced? Not to mention, why? If every possible quantum "reality" exists...


    Well, the Temporal Prime Directive is enforced. Even though time and it's paradoxes are infinite.

    And why? Just look at the influence our universe had on the mirror universe. Thanks to our Kirk's interference...nearly all of humanity became slaves to the Klingon/Cardassian alliance.

    Also, interference from the Borg into the Fluidic universe nearly wiped everything out. So trying to limit extra-dimensional travel doesn't seem too far fetched.
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    lobomensch

    [12]Jul 1, 2006
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    Sounds like something "The One" with Jet Li addressed.
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    beowulf579

    [13]Jul 1, 2006
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    lobomensch wrote:
    Sounds like something "The One" with Jet Li addressed.


    Thats true, hadn't thought about that. I liked the movie and the concept. Sort of "Highlander" meets sci-fi.
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    lobomensch

    [14]Jul 1, 2006
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    I liked it, even though it did seem to borrow heavily from Sliders. Too bad they never followed up on it.
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    beowulf579

    [15]Jul 2, 2006
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    lobomensch wrote:
    I liked it, even though it did seem to borrow heavily from Sliders. Too bad they never followed up on it.


    It would have made a good sequel I think. And as for Sliders, that was a great concept show that really needed to have gotten back to it's roots. Toward the end it got kind of wierd and out there.
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    LithiumAngel420

    [16]Jul 2, 2006
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    I was never a "fan" of Sliders, but I have seen several episodes and I really liked the show.

    So far as a Demensional Prime Directive, one was obviously never mentioned; and as was pointed out earlier, would be very difficult to track or enforce - just like the TPD. It would be a prudent measure to take, though, considering the Star Trek Universe's laws (by that I mean how the franchise has established Star Trek itself). One species being able to slip into another's (ie, TNG's "Timescape") can be a very dangerous thing.
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    lobomensch

    [17]Jul 2, 2006
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    "Sliders" started off good but very quickly jumped the shark with the departure of Arturo, went from being a socially aware adventure series to being bad b-grade sci-fi movie rip-offs, thanks to David Peckinpah.
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    alex20020712

    [18]Jul 3, 2006
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    alex20020712 wrote:
    With infinite dimensions, how would it be enforced? Not to mention, why? If every possible quantum "reality" exists...
    Well, the Temporal Prime Directive is enforced. Even though time and it's paradoxes are infinite.
    Because there is only one timeline, so it can be monitored and restored. If there were infinite timelines existing at the same time, what would be the point of even *trying* to maintain/restore one of them? Besides, you would need infinite resources to monitor infinite realities.
    beowulf579 wrote:
    And why? Just look at the influence our universe had on the mirror universe. Thanks to our Kirk's interference...nearly all of humanity became slaves to the Klingon/Cardassian alliance. Also, interference from the Borg into the Fluidic universe nearly wiped everything out. So trying to limit extra-dimensional travel doesn't seem too far fetched.
    See, if there are infinite realities, those and every other possible reality already exist. Any one of those realities would not be more real or valid than any other.
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    beowulf579

    [19]Jul 4, 2006
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    "See, if there are infinite realities, those and every other possible reality already exist. Any one of those realities would not be more real or valid than any other."

    Maybe not, but I am not worried about the other realities. I just mentioned them as an example. There is a great deal of a reason to make sure that other incursions into our dimension don't happen.
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    alex20020712

    [20]Jul 5, 2006
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    Maybe not, but I am not worried about the other realities. I just mentioned them as an example. There is a great deal of a reason to make sure that other incursions into our dimension don't happen.


    That is a self-preservation issue, not necessarily a Prime Directive issue.
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