cause and effect has me confused

  • Avatar of jrsgalaxy21

    jrsgalaxy21

    [1]Aug 24, 2008
    • member since: 08/18/08
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    **SPOILER ALERT** Contains info and or spoiler alerts on the episode Cause and Effect for those of you who havent seen this episode yet . Its the one with Kelsey Grammar where the crew get stuck in a time loop

    Let me explain. This episode is about the crew stuck in a time loop along with another ship. They manage to stop the loop by avoiding the ship. That might explain the Enterprise escaping the loop because everytime they collide the loop starts over and the last time they avoid colliding ,thus breaking the time loop.. Fine the loop ends. But the other ship manages to escape too (Kelsey Grammars ship). Okay this is the confusing part before the Enterprise came what was keeping Grammars ship in the loop if seemingly the act of not crashing with the Enterprise got them out too. But what was keeping them in the loop before Picard's and the crew got into the fray. Were they just appearing like they did and then disappear interacting with nothing else for 50 or so years then only recently with Picards ship for about three weeks. What I mean to say if Picard and crew were reliving the same day and starting over when their ships explode how were Kelseys crew reliving the same day,What was the catalyst for their loop to end and then start over. How did their day end and then start over. I find it confusing. I want to say its a plot hole or mistake but surely not . Its too obvious to be jsut a plot hole so im just going to stick with confused. CAn anybody explain this to me.

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  • Avatar of skeeter291

    skeeter291

    [2]Aug 24, 2008
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    OK, I'm a little confused by what information you want... but here's my take on the episode. (deep breath)


    The Enterprise enters an area of space called the Typhon Expanse. At the same time the Bozeman (Kelsey Grammar's ship) enters the same area of space in their time frame (23 century). They encounter a temporal anomaly just as the Enterprise and boom... sucked into the 24th century and into the loop. Since the loop collapsed in on it's self there was no way to send the Bozeman back to it's own time frame. From what Captain Bateson said at the end of the episode... They left starbase 3 weeks ago and entered the expanse, then saw the Enterprise. It's been as if no time had passed for the Bozeman and her crew. So, my thinking is that the Bozeman and the Enterprise were in the loop for about the same amount of time just in there respective time frames. I don't think the Bozeman was in the loop for longer then the Enterprise subjectively.


    Also, the book Ship of the Line by Diane Carey gives alot of back story about Captain Bateson and the Bozeman crew and way they were in the expanse. It should be easy to get at a used book store or at any book store.


    God, time loops, temporal anomalies, time travel. It all gives me a headache. I hope this helps answer your questions. If I missed something let me know.

    Scott-
    Edited on 08/24/2008 9:58am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of dbcsdragon

    dbcsdragon

    [4]Aug 28, 2008
    • member since: 08/03/06
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    skeeter291 wrote:
    OK, I'm a little confused by what information you want... but here's my take on the episode. (deep breath)
    The Enterprise enters an area of space called the Typhon Expanse. At the same time the Bozeman (Kelsey Grammar's ship) enters the same area of space in their time frame (23 century). They encounter a temporal anomaly just as the Enterprise and boom... sucked into the 24th century and into the loop. Since the loop collapsed in on it's self there was no way to send the Bozeman back to it's own time frame. From what Captain Bateson said at the end of the episode... They left starbase 3 weeks ago and entered the expanse, then saw the Enterprise. It's been as if no time had passed for the Bozeman and her crew. So, my thinking is that the Bozeman and the Enterprise were in the loop for about the same amount of time just in there respective time frames. I don't think the Bozeman was in the loop for longer then the Enterprise subjectively.
    Also, the book Ship of the Line by Diane Carey gives alot of back story about Captain Bateson and the Bozeman crew and way they were in the expanse. It should be easy to get at a used book store or at any book store.
    God, time loops, temporal anomalies, time travel. It all gives me a headache. I hope this helps answer your questions. If I missed something let me know. Scott-

    This is a question that I have been wondering about for a long time.

    Your answer makes a little bit of since, but there was nothing to indicate that the temporal annomally was a time portal. It sounded like the Bozeman left base three weeks before it came into contact with the annomally and stayed there until it met the Enterprise. Maybe they relived more than a day at a time, or perhaps they were in suspended animation. Whatever it was, it was not clarified during the episode.

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  • Avatar of ColonelCurt

    ColonelCurt

    [5]Aug 31, 2008
    • member since: 10/23/05
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    I don't think there necessarily needs to be an event or obvious trigger for the Bozeman's time loop. They could have been looped for the last 80 years flying in circles around the expanse, with nothing exciting happening to them at all. Until the Enterprise also became involved and broke them out of the loop along with itself. While it would be nice if all time loops involved some sort of catastropic event, if we go ahead and posit their existance, there's no reason they can't be mundane occurances (eg: Window of Opportunity in Stargate). The way I see it, the Bozeman flew into the expanse, got stuck in their own boring time loop where nothing happened for 80 years (and had no concept that that was the case). Then the Enterprise enters the expanse, happened to encounter the Bozeman on one of its loops, and becomes trapped in the loop as well. Somehow the loop is broken and both ships make it out.
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  • Avatar of jrsgalaxy

    jrsgalaxy

    [6]Sep 1, 2008
    • member since: 01/30/07
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    Thanks for the info . All of you have good points . and it did answer my questions or confusion so thank you.
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