When were the Borg first implied or hinted at in a TNG episode?

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    jrsgalaxy

    [1]Oct 1, 2007
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    We all know the Borg first appeared in TNG ep Q Who ?. But when were they first implied or hinted at in a TNG Ep? I think it was in season ! The Neutral ZOne. The way the colony was just sucked out eerily like the one in BEST of BOTH WORLDS, when Riker and his team beamed down to investigate.

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    Tronman100

    [2]Oct 1, 2007
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    yes, it was established later (or possibly in that ep) that the borg were responsible
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    jrsgalaxy

    [3]Oct 1, 2007
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    So then was it Q who was responsible for alerting the Borg to the Federation, Alpha quadrant , Earth or whatever you want to call it?
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    jrsgalaxy

    [4]Oct 1, 2007
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    Tronman100 wrote:
    yes, it was established later (or possibly in that ep) that the borg were responsible


    No I dont think that they ever resolved that or ever mentioned who was responsible in that ep or future ones.
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    Tronman100

    [5]Oct 1, 2007
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    jrsgalaxy wrote:
    Tronman100 wrote:
    yes, it was established later (or possibly in that ep) that the borg were responsible


    No I dont think that they ever resolved that or ever mentioned who was responsible in that ep or future ones.


    I haven't watched the episodes in a while, but I thought in the episode "Q Who" when they see the attack on the planet by the Borg in System J-25, one of the characters remarks that the attacks are remarkably similar to the attacks from the "The Neutral Zone" episode. Maybe I'm just remembering things wrong though, in any case, yes I'm fairly certain the implication is that the Borg were responsible for attacks from "The Neutral Zone" (despite the fact that they were 7000+ light years away, or well that's what transwarp conduits are for I suppose).
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    jrsgalaxy

    [6]Oct 1, 2007
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    Tronman100 wrote:
    jrsgalaxy wrote:
    Tronman100 wrote:
    yes, it was established later (or possibly in that ep) that the borg were responsible


    No I dont think that they ever resolved that or ever mentioned who was responsible in that ep or future ones.


    I haven't watched the episodes in a while, but I thought in the episode "Q Who" when they see the attack on the planet by the Borg in System J-25, one of the characters remarks that the attacks are remarkably similar to the attacks from the "The Neutral Zone" episode. Maybe I'm just remembering things wrong though, in any case, yes I'm fairly certain the implication is that the Borg were responsible for attacks from "The Neutral Zone" (despite the fact that they were 7000+ light years away, or well that's what transwarp conduits are for I suppose).


    I had forgotten about that. They did say that about the attacks being similiar. But my question is why does everyone say that Q is responsible for alerting the Borg to thier presence or existence if they had already visited the area. In the Neutral Zone it couldve been a scout ship or maybe a Borg ship that got disconnected from the collective , used the transwarp conduit to the outpost and then what?
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    scifinut99

    [7]Oct 1, 2007
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    the joint investigation by the enterprise and romulans lead to them finding no answer to what happned on bth sides of the neatral zone. then when Q sent the enterprise to system j-25 after data does a scan of a neaerby planet he reports that whoever destroyed the planet matches what happned in the neatral zone
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    alex20020712

    [8]Oct 2, 2007
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    Tronman100 wrote:
    I haven't watched the episodes in a while, but I thought in the episode "Q Who" when they see the attack on the planet by the Borg in System J-25, one of the characters remarks that the attacks are remarkably similar to the attacks from the "The Neutral Zone" episode.


    That was The Best of Both Worlds.
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    jrsgalaxy

    [9]Oct 2, 2007
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    alex20020712 wrote:
    Tronman100 wrote:
    I haven't watched the episodes in a while, but I thought in the episode "Q Who" when they see the attack on the planet by the Borg in System J-25, one of the characters remarks that the attacks are remarkably similar to the attacks from the "The Neutral Zone" episode.


    That was The Best of Both Worlds.


    Nope , Just watched Q Who? They mention what Tronman said. In it Picard also say they are now aware of our existence. Which brings me to my original statement, How then did that outpost get attacked in the ep The neutral Zone?
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    Tronman100

    [10]Oct 2, 2007
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    jrsgalaxy wrote:
    alex20020712 wrote:
    Tronman100 wrote:
    I haven't watched the episodes in a while, but I thought in the episode "Q Who" when they see the attack on the planet by the Borg in System J-25, one of the characters remarks that the attacks are remarkably similar to the attacks from the "The Neutral Zone" episode.


    That was The Best of Both Worlds.


    Nope , Just watched Q Who? They mention what Tronman said. In it Picard also say they are now aware of our existence. Which brings me to my original statement, How then did that outpost get attacked in the ep The neutral Zone?


    It probably happens in both, Q-Who and BoBW, since I think at the beginning of BoBW, they also beam down to a colony that's been swooped into a crater, and it's probably tied back to the previous two eps in one way or another. I'm going by the summary though, so I'm not sure the actual dialog, TNG is the only one I don't own a single season of (yet).
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    lennydonkey

    [11]Oct 2, 2007
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    I think it was always meant to be the idea that the neutral zone outposts were taken by the borg.

    I figure it was some sort of long range scout ship that attacked in the neutral zone, but the borg in the delta quadrant may or may not have known about the federation at that point.

    Which is why I think in his own unique way Q was actually trying to help humanity in Q Who. The Borg were going to know about humanity anyway, but humanity wouldn't know about the borg untill they showed up at the front door. Q's way lets federation discover and prepare for a major threat while just giving the borg a minor head start.

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    thedirtyberk

    [12]Oct 2, 2007
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    jrsgalaxy wrote:
    Nope , Just watched Q Who? They mention what Tronman said. In it Picard also say they are now aware of our existence. Which brings me to my original statement, How then did that outpost get attacked in the ep The neutral Zone?

    Yeah, I think you're getting at the idea that they contradicted themselves in the plots of those episodes, because they imply in the "Q Who?" episode that the Borg are finding out about humans for the first time due to the events of that particular Season 2 episode. (Q sending them into the path of a Borg cube)... But, that can't be true if the Borg had already been in the area of the Federation border to attack the outposts in the "Neutral Zone" episode at the end of Season 1.

    I think it's a valid point. The Borg can't have been oblivious to the existence of humans if months earlier they'd assimilated some of their bases. Of course, you could make up some plot device... like there's a time paradox we don't know about. Or, that the Borg who destroyed the outposts had somehow had their link severed from the collective. But, they never explained the contradiction in the show, as far as I know.

    I also agree with lennydonkey that Q pretty much did Starfleet a favor by making them aware of the upcoming threat.

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    iamralphiam

    [13]Oct 4, 2007
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    Q Who was the first episode the borg appear, but in best of both worlds it is implied that the Neutral Zone was the first episode in which the borg had been.

    Of course, due to the way this show was guided its possible that they added this continuity later after they decided to introduce the borg.
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    MattRker

    [14]Oct 18, 2007
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    Suffice to say with the hindsight of retro continuity it is generally accepted that the Borg were in some way involved with the destruction of the Romulan outposts, and as no other explanation has ever been given by the makers of the series, I see no reason to dismiss the idea. Of course it contradicts information in later episodes, but any series usually does eventually.
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    my1sunshine

    [15]Jun 8, 2008
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    And, although i haven't seen the episode..isn't there a Borg contact in Enterprise? They decide to keep it quiet for one reason or another?
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    lazyjay

    [16]Jun 8, 2008
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    my1sunshine wrote:
    And, although i haven't seen the episode..isn't there a Borg contact in Enterprise? They decide to keep it quiet for one reason or another?

    Yep, frozen Borg drones were the villains in Rgeneration, but I don't recall them making a decision to keep the encounter quiet. Like the whole series of Enterprise this episode wasn't bad, but it took liberties with the continuity of the Star Trek universe that bothered me.
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    pjhasham

    [17]Jun 8, 2008
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    Any Borg-related continuity problems between TNG and Voyager/Enterprise can probably be explained by the events in First Contact.
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    MajLorne

    [18]Jun 10, 2008
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    lennydonkey wrote:

    I think it was always meant to be the idea that the neutral zone outposts were taken by the borg.

    I figure it was some sort of long range scout ship that attacked in the neutral zone, but the borg in the delta quadrant may or may not have known about the federation at that point.

    Which is why I think in his own unique way Q was actually trying to help humanity in Q Who. The Borg were going to know about humanity anyway, but humanity wouldn't know about the borg untill they showed up at the front door. Q's way lets federation discover and prepare for a major threat while just giving the borg a minor head start.

    Hem that's an interesting way of putting it. I didn't think of it as Q's way of giving humanity a favor by showing them the threat at the cost of 18 lives. But you are right, this way at least the Federation is made aware of the threat before it was too late to at least start preparing rather than to get slaughtered when the borg shows up like above Earth and such.
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    GodEmperorJason

    [19]Dec 1, 2008
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    MajLorne wrote:
    lennydonkey wrote:

    I think it was always meant to be the idea that the neutral zone outposts were taken by the borg.

    I figure it was some sort of long range scout ship that attacked in the neutral zone, but the borg in the delta quadrant may or may not have known about the federation at that point.

    Which is why I think in his own unique way Q was actually trying to help humanity in Q Who. The Borg were going to know about humanity anyway, but humanity wouldn't know about the borg untill they showed up at the front door. Q's way lets federation discover and prepare for a major threat while just giving the borg a minor head start.

    Hem that's an interesting way of putting it. I didn't think of it as Q's way of giving humanity a favor by showing them the threat at the cost of 18 lives. But you are right, this way at least the Federation is made aware of the threat before it was too late to at least start preparing rather than to get slaughtered when the borg shows up like above Earth and such.

    I do think Q was trying to help, I think he is challenging humanity to get better and be prepared throughout the series. I think he wanted Picard to realize that there are much larger threats out there, starfleet had become complacant with their Klingon alliance and Romulan and Cardassian neutral and demilitarized zones. Yes it cost some lives, but I submit it would have cost a lot more had Q not done it.

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