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UPN (ended 2001)

Kes or Seven?

  • Avatar of stvoyman

    stvoyman

    [1]Mar 9, 2009
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    This might end up being a no-brainer, but do you prefer Kes or Seven of Nine?

    Should they have kept Kes around for the full 7 seasons, and bring on Seven too?

    Thoughts?

    I personally love Seven, and think it was a great idea to shuffle up the ailing show. I felt sorry for Jennifer Lien, but having Kes leave was a good choice. It would have been interesting to see how the series would have gone with Kes there in all seasons alongside Seven. I bet we wouldn't have had as much growth for the Doctor or the Doctor/Seven relationship.

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  • Avatar of tv-striker

    tv-striker

    [2]Mar 9, 2009
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    Kes was a "difficult" character from the beginning. She had a bizarre physiology and a very short life span. I think they ran of things for the character and decided to cut their losses.

    Seven truly became the "breakout character" for the series (think Data or Spock). The fans loved her. Her potential conflicts about being human or Borg, individual or collective, and etc. were endless.

    I'm not sure they had to lose any character. If so, they should have dropped Harry Kim instead.

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  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [3]Mar 10, 2009
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    There was probably room for both of them. Episodes in Season 3 like Warlord and Before and After showed there was still life in the character of Kes. As for Seven...well, a lot of people did like her.

    But I don't agree she was the show's breakout character and as for Mr. Kim I'm glad they kept him around even if they gave him the same lack of character development in later seasons as Tuvok, Neelix and Chakotay. They were all good characters and actors.

    Edited on 03/10/2009 6:07am
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  • Avatar of skaizun

    skaizun

    [4]Mar 10, 2009
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    I'm sure I'll offend SOMEbody with the following statement, but I enjoyed ST:TOS, a few of the movies (the even numbered ones, of course!), sort-of-kind-of-liked ST:TNG, which I have called ST:The Data Show (i.e., if it weren't for Data, many episodes couldn't have been resolved!), and, for the most part, disliked, and grudgingly admit to watching V'ger, Deep Dreck 9, and Boobyprize (I'm amazed that it lasted beyond the first season). Given that, let's be honest: Kes was dull as toothpaste, while Seven added a certain je ne sais quoi to the series that kept the male viewers watching ("Resistance is Futile"? Who'd resist her?!?!).
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    cvjrbdjkasfi

    [5]Mar 11, 2009
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    What's with all the italics?

    Anyway, for me there's three levels to my opinion.

    1- Looks. Let's be honest, they chose the actor for seven (also it's interesting that she's 7 of 9 and there are 9 main characters in Voyager) was purely for the cheesecake factor and this was underlined with her catsuit. Seriously- high heels?? My other half constantly points out that it's stupid footwear for a job that will require her to run all the time. With all that said, I prefer Kes in looks, because she looked less like a supermodel and more like a cute, good looking woman. Though that probably says more about my taste in women than anything else.

    2- Acting. I'll put this as a rough tie. Kes got few leading parts but the ones that she had were really good and convincing performances. Seven got a bunch of stories in every season, and again they were played quite convincingly.

    3- Character. Seven wins the 'interesting character' part hands down. The conflict between human and borg influences is just great. Kes' short life span was a dumb idea and it seemed that the writers tried to get around that with the whole 'they can live longer if they practice meditation' excuse. Kes was a lovely character but it would have been hard to write a primary store around her, especially seeing that the first two seasons were full of TNG writers recycling TNG stories.

    So yeah... complex.
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  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [6]Mar 11, 2009
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    cvjrbdjkasfi wrote:
    What's with all the italics? Anyway, for me there's three levels to my opinion. 1- Looks. Let's be honest, they chose the actor for seven (also it's interesting that she's 7 of 9 and there are 9 main characters in Voyager) was purely for the cheesecake factor and this was underlined with her catsuit. Seriously- high heels?? My other half constantly points out that it's stupid footwear for a job that will require her to run all the time. With all that said, I prefer Kes in looks, because she looked less like a supermodel and more like a cute, good looking woman. Though that probably says more about my taste in women than anything else. 2- Acting. I'll put this as a rough tie. Kes got few leading parts but the ones that she had were really good and convincing performances. Seven got a bunch of stories in every season, and again they were played quite convincingly. 3- Character. Seven wins the 'interesting character' part hands down. The conflict between human and borg influences is just great. Kes' short life span was a dumb idea and it seemed that the writers tried to get around that with the whole 'they can live longer if they practice meditation' excuse. Kes was a lovely character but it would have been hard to write a primary store around her, especially seeing that the first two seasons were full of TNG writers recycling TNG stories. So yeah... complex.
    I thought the first three or four seasons were the best. It was the later seasons where they started to recycle or run out of ideas but that's just my opinion. I thought Seven got her best storylines in Season 4.
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  • Avatar of rondasexton

    rondasexton

    [7]Apr 20, 2009
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    Kes, hands down. I got so sick of 7 saves the day.
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  • Avatar of Fraggerstein

    Fraggerstein

    [8]Apr 23, 2009
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    I liked Seven of Nine, thing is when i first watched voyager it was season 7 and when i saw around a year and a half later the earlier episodes with Kes i was confused as to who the hell she was.

    then i saw "Caretaker" which explained she was an ocampa, since i got all the Voyager episodes in the box set i've seen season 1 and figured it out.

    Kes is a good character, and there was some emotional attachment in her last appearance in "fury"

    I felt the same way when Neelix left Voyager in 'Homestead' he chose to leave Voyager to stay behind with the Talaxian colony their both Native to the delta quadrant and both stayed there with their own people.
    however with Kes it's uncertain if she actually did return to Ocampa afterall.

    Seven of Nine is the logical Character who would have returned home since although she was found in the Delta Quadrant she was from Earth.
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  • Avatar of bigcobra2000

    bigcobra2000

    [9]Apr 23, 2009
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    Although, I probably enjoy the story arcs of the first couple seasons more, this is not even a question. Everyone on this board picking Kes must be a woman, because 7 is da bomb.
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  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [10]Apr 24, 2009
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    bigcobra2000 wrote:
    Although, I probably enjoy the story arcs of the first couple seasons more, this is not even a question. Everyone on this board picking Kes must be a woman, because 7 is da bomb.
    Actually I'm male and I chose Kes. I look for story and character in my shows more than how attractive someone is.
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  • Avatar of xX-Linda-Xx

    xX-Linda-Xx

    [11]May 18, 2009
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    Seven!
    She's hot + she has an interesting character/storylines. And Jeri Ryan is really a great actress!
    Kes was ok but she didn't really do it for me.
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  • Avatar of Nashirathena

    Nashirathena

    [12]May 23, 2009
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    Seven all the way. Granted, I started watching halfway through season 4, so sorta had to get used to Kes and a lack of Seven watching out of order reruns. But even though I thought that Seven's attire was a very cheap move to attract an audience that wouldn't otherwise watch, I love Jeri Ryan's work and thought that her character was better. Seven had flaws - and watching her figure out what those flaws were, and if they were actually flaws was delightful. Kes may have brought a certain heart, innocence, and childlike curiosity to the show, but there wasn't a whole lot of inner turmoil to watch in her character. Plus, Kes's character relied far too heavily on her relationship with Neelix in the first 2 seasons for my taste, which hindered her own characters growth as an individual.
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  • Avatar of TV_Knight

    TV_Knight

    [13]May 25, 2009
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    7 of 9 for sure! Kes was the Tasha Yar of Voyager! :p
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  • Avatar of vakje

    vakje

    [14]May 28, 2009
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    I agree that they should have kept Kes and dropped Harry Kim, and apparently this is what they had intended to do. Kim was going to die of his wounds from Scorpion, Part I.

    However, that summer a magazine declared that Harry Kim Was Hot, so the kept Kim and disposed of Kes instead.

    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Talk:Jennifer_Lien

    It's a shame. I felt like they were just starting to develop Kes into a very good character, and it ended up that they never did anything with Harry Kim.

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  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [15]May 29, 2009
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    vakje wrote:

    I agree that they should have kept Kes and dropped Harry Kim, and apparently this is what they had intended to do. Kim was going to die of his wounds from Scorpion, Part I.

    However, that summer a magazine declared that Harry Kim Was Hot, so the kept Kim and disposed of Kes instead.

    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Talk:Jennifer_Lien

    It's a shame. I felt like they were just starting to develop Kes into a very good character, and it ended up that they never did anything with Harry Kim.

    I guess from a story point of view Harry probably has more room for storytelling because he can live longer than nine years but personally speaking I didn't want either of them to go. It is a shame the producers were prepared to kill Harry. It's more of a shame that in the end they had to make a choice to get rid of one of them.
    Edited on 05/29/2009 5:41am
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  • Avatar of NiallB31

    NiallB31

    [16]Jun 27, 2009
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    I think Kes was a strong character and Jennifer Lien who played her was a damn good actress. And Seven is the Spock and Data missing from the show, and Jeri Ryan is another damn good actress. They should have kept Kesas a recurring character in the show.
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  • Avatar of Canisminor

    Canisminor

    [17]Sep 27, 2009
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    STAR TREK VOYAGER WAS FLAWED FROM THE BEGINING. THE FACT THAT THE SHOW EVEN LASTED THE 7 YEAR THRESHOLD WAS DUE TO INERTIA. EVEN THE LEAD OF THE SHOW, WAS NOT SURE SHE WANTED TO RETURN FOR THE FINAL SEASON. AS FOR KES OR SEVEN? IT REALLY DID NOT MATTER. THE PRODUCERS BROUGHT MS. RYAN ON BOARD BECAUSE WHILE THE SHOWS DEMOGRAPHICS SHOWED THAT 'VOYAGER', WAS DOING WELL WITH YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN. IT WAS DOING POORLY IN THE ALL IMPORTANT AREA OF THE YOUNG MALE 13 TO 25 YEAR AGE GROUP. THIS IS WHO ADVERTISERS ARE AIMING FOR. WHILE I BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN TO HAVE HEALTHY ROLE MODELS ON TV. I DO NOT THINK THAT PARADING MS. RYAN AROUND IN A CAT SUIT AND 5 INCH HEELS, WHILE EVERYONE ELSE WEARS A UNIFORM DOES MUCH TO ADVANCE THE NOTION OF WOMEN AS CAPABLE, INTELLIGENT, LEADERS WHO ARE DESERVING OF RESPECT FOR NO OTHER REASON THAT THEY HAVE EARNED THIER COMMAND STATUS. THIS BLATANT ATTEMPT BY THE PRODUCERS TO FIND OUT 'WHERE THE BOYS ARE'? IS UNFITTING FOR ANY SHOW THAT BEARS THE NAME STAR TREK.

    AND I LIKED MS. RYAN, ONLY BECAUSE SHE WAS A BETTER ACTRESS.

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  • Avatar of Samuel2484

    Samuel2484

    [18]Sep 28, 2009
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    Canisminor wrote:

    STAR TREK VOYAGER WAS FLAWED FROM THE BEGINING. THE FACT THAT THE SHOW EVEN LASTED THE 7 YEAR THRESHOLD WAS DUE TO INERTIA. EVEN THE LEAD OF THE SHOW, WAS NOT SURE SHE WANTED TO RETURN FOR THE FINAL SEASON. AS FOR KES OR SEVEN? IT REALLY DID NOT MATTER. THE PRODUCERS BROUGHT MS. RYAN ON BOARD BECAUSE WHILE THE SHOWS DEMOGRAPHICS SHOWED THAT 'VOYAGER', WAS DOING WELL WITH YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN. IT WAS DOING POORLY IN THE ALL IMPORTANT AREA OF THE YOUNG MALE 13 TO 25 YEAR AGE GROUP. THIS IS WHO ADVERTISERS ARE AIMING FOR. WHILE I BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN TO HAVE HEALTHY ROLE MODELS ON TV. I DO NOT THINK THAT PARADING MS. RYAN AROUND IN A CAT SUIT AND 5 INCH HEELS, WHILE EVERYONE ELSE WEARS A UNIFORM DOES MUCH TO ADVANCE THE NOTION OF WOMEN AS CAPABLE, INTELLIGENT, LEADERS WHO ARE DESERVING OF RESPECT FOR NO OTHER REASON THAT THEY HAVE EARNED THIER COMMAND STATUS. THIS BLATANT ATTEMPT BY THE PRODUCERS TO FIND OUT 'WHERE THE BOYS ARE'? IS UNFITTING FOR ANY SHOW THAT BEARS THE NAME STAR TREK.

    AND I LIKED MS. RYAN, ONLY BECAUSE SHE WAS A BETTER ACTRESS.

    ...And what has that got to do with this Topic? You know you can just write a review. Anyway my Choice would be Seven of Nine. Now, I like both Characters and they are very interesting actresses and are very Hot, but Seven of Nine has a better story, Capable of More and it was really interesting to see her progress as the series went on.

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    KingofIPirates

    [19]Oct 9, 2009
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    Prefered Seven of 9. Found her slightly more interesting.
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  • Avatar of TimDrakeRobin

    TimDrakeRobin

    [20]Nov 12, 2009
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    If they had decided to get rid of Kes after season 1 or 2 I wouldn't have minded. While her medical studies were progressing, her only recurring plot thread was as Neelix's girlfriend. But Season 3 showed there was still potential for the character and the Kes focused episodes were strong and well performed by Jennifer. Having Kes go all ominpotent was too convenient. She did the best with what she was given, but it still wasn't enough.

    Seven was given more instance for her character to develop, and Jeri continued to shine in those opportunities. And one of the ways Star Trek always shines is by having one character focus on the study of humanity and what it means to be a person and part of a crew, i.e. Spock and Data. Seven just felt more appropriate for the part.

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