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Should TV.com & all other fan sites delete all of the Star Trek pages?

  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [1]May 14, 2009
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    Now that the new movie is out and everything that had happen on all of the other Star Treks has been deleted by a timeline change should we stay true to the story line by removing everything and anything Star Trek? This more for research. It came from a discssion I was having which somehow lead to the new movie. I wrote this while careing for a sick 4 years old & a very active 18 mos old. I should have asked for your age & how long you have been a Star Trek fan.
    Edited on 05/15/2009 6:32am
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  • Avatar of Tronman100

    Tronman100

    [2]May 14, 2009
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    archangelwho wrote:
    Now that the new movie is out and everything that had happen on all of the other Star Treks has been deleted by a timeline change should we stay true to the story line by removing everything and anything Star Trek?

    No. My understanding is that the original timeline has not been deleted, but rather a separate, alternate timeline was created. The old timeline still happened and continues to exist (well, to quote Bart Simpson, none of these things every "really" happened ).

    But even if at worst, the new film would simply be an alternate continuity/canon. We can't just go around deleting information for the old canon even if the timeline was "deleted" as you said, we (in the real world) still have the original canon which shouldn't be deleted (in the real world) under any circumstances. Just look at comic books and how many times they spawn into various alternate universes. The old universes still exist. Even when a comic book decides to spawn its own canon, unless its a direct retcon as stated by the produces, they just don't go around recalling copies of the old comics. Indeed, they aren't just going to go around and stop airing all the old episodes/movies from the franchise like they never happened. As long as those still exist, so must the information on them.

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    Tronman100

    [3]May 15, 2009
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    I certainly hope that didn't sound like I was trying to put down your question or anything...questions are good things! I was just trying to be thorough and relatively neutral in my answer. You can read more on my thoughts on Star Trek on my blog: http://jaysdesktop.blogspot.com/2009/05/thoughts-on-star-trek.html

    Take care!
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  • Avatar of vampiredawn

    vampiredawn

    [4]May 17, 2009
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    No, the original Star Trek universe still exists, everything there still happened. We're just following an alternate universe, an alternative outcome of things. You know they say that every time you make a choice, in another reality you made another choice, and a different timeline started from there, with different outcomes and different events. That's what happened here. If you take this time travel/different timelines as face value (which I don't believe in since I don't believe in time travel and alternate universes, but I accept it in sci fi), what happened in this new movie actually also happened during the course of The Original Series, in a parallel universe. But now, instead of following the timeline that was shown to us in The Original Series, we're now following another timeline, as shown in the new movie. And therefore we will now see things happening in a different way, perhaps with similarities since the characters are basically the same people. It's a really brilliant ways for the creators and writers to be able to give us new Star Trek stories, without having to worry about contradicting the canon from The Original Series
    Edited on 06/02/2009 1:52am
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  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [5]May 22, 2009
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    So since original spock was present does that mean he didnt actually time travel but jump to a parallel universe,im sorry i just dont get it.
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  • Avatar of vampiredawn

    vampiredawn

    [6]May 23, 2009
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    seto1 wrote:
    So since original spock was present does that mean he didnt actually time travel but jump to a parallel universe,im sorry i just dont get it.

    The theory, as I understand it, is that time travel is actually going to a parallel universe, because if you go back, it will alter something, and automatically create a alternate outcome of things. I'll try to explain.

    The thing is, this strain of alternate universe started/was created 25 years prior to the main plot of this movie, at the birth of James Kirk. This was due to the Romulans going back in time and killing his father. From there on, things happened in a different way than that of Star Trek: TOS. When Spock Prime arrives 25 years later, he "lands" on the reality strain that killing Kirk's dad had created, because that is the reality that is "real" now, and they would never have known that things could have been different had they not found out that the Romulans (and Spock Prime) were from the future.

    The reason for the theory about alternate realities is, that if we are to assume there is only one strain of reality, one linear strain of time, you can't actually change anything. Because if I right now go back 25 years in time, 25 years ago that would already have happened. I would have appeared back then, done what I was to do, and then went back to my own time, so anything I did back then would already have been incorporated in this reality. And thus not have changed anything because it was already part of what had happened. And that would pretty much make any story about traveling back in time and prevent bad things from happening impossible to do

    Since time travel isn't possible, the above is of course only theories, but that's why the premise of time travel is based on alternate realities and not only one existing line of events.

    If anyone can explain it better than me, feel free

    Edited on 05/23/2009 12:38pm
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  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [7]May 31, 2009
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    Ok i believe i get it now,confusing but if it means new star trek episodes im all for it.Ok what did kirk father do in the original timeline.
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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [8]Jun 1, 2009
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    vampiredawn wrote:
    No, the original Star Trek universe still exists, everything there still happened. We're just following an alternate universe, an alternative outcome of things. You know they say that every time you make a choice, in another reality you made another choice, and a different timeline started from there, with different outcomes and different events. That's what happened here. If you take this time travel/different timelines as face value (which I don't believe in since I don't believe in time travel and alternate universes, but I accept it in sci fi), what happened in this new movie actually also happened during the course of The Original Series, in a parallel universe. But now, instead of following the timeline that was shown to us in The Original Series, we're not following another timeline, as shown in the new movie. And therefore we will now see things happening in a different way, perhaps with similarities since the characters are basically the same people. It's a really brilliant ways for the creators and writers to be able to give us new Star Trek stories, without having to worry about contradicting the canon from The Original Series

    Well put. I agree. I guess I'm not going to get the answer I felt I would based on some remarks I had gotten on other subjects. Everyone here are fans of the old shows and most are in their 30's or older.
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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [9]Jun 1, 2009
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    My limited understanding is that Time Travel is moving past and future on the timeline or timeloops. Parallel Universe is the present but not the same. Most of the shows that deal with time travel deal with the "what if's" if you do change something. So the two are not the same, at least that how I see it and I could be wrong.

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    vampiredawn

    [10]Jun 2, 2009
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    archangelwho wrote:
    vampiredawn wrote:
    No, the original Star Trek universe still exists, everything there still happened. We're just following an alternate universe, an alternative outcome of things. You know they say that every time you make a choice, in another reality you made another choice, and a different timeline started from there, with different outcomes and different events. That's what happened here. If you take this time travel/different timelines as face value (which I don't believe in since I don't believe in time travel and alternate universes, but I accept it in sci fi), what happened in this new movie actually also happened during the course of The Original Series, in a parallel universe. But now, instead of following the timeline that was shown to us in The Original Series, we're now following another timeline, as shown in the new movie. And therefore we will now see things happening in a different way, perhaps with similarities since the characters are basically the same people. It's a really brilliant ways for the creators and writers to be able to give us new Star Trek stories, without having to worry about contradicting the canon from The Original Series
    Well put. I agree. I guess I'm not going to get the answer I felt I would based on some remarks I had gotten on other subjects. Everyone here are fans of the old shows and most are in their 30's or older.

    Oh I'm a huge fan of the old show, and has been for *counts* 14 years (I'm 28 now). What the new movie gives me is a chance to rekindle my love for the characters because even if it's not 100% the same, I don't need it to be the same. Just close enough. I'm handing them my heart just as I did with the old show *G* There's no reason to annull everything that happened in the old show

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [11]Jun 2, 2009
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    From your last post you seem to have a respect for the past show. My guess this would not apply to you " This is our Star Trek and you old timers need to get over it and enjoy your reruns. Your time have passed, it is our time now." This question was developed from remarks I have heard made over the pass few years from younger fans & members of groups I belong to. I was trying to find out if I would get the same remarks from this page. I guess this was the wrong group to poll. You would not be here if you did not respect the past.

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    vampiredawn

    [12]Jun 3, 2009
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    archangelwho wrote:

    You would not be here if you did not respect the past.

    Very true.

    I've seen what you're talking about, though. New fans of ST (because of the movie) feeling they're being put down by "old" ST fans, and old ST fans feeling the new fans are stomping all over their playground and mucking up everything. Personally I don't feel any particluar possessiveness over the old show. Well, I do, but not in the "you can't play with it!" kind of way. Mine is more like "HERE, BORROW AND WATCH AND ENJOY AND PLAY " kind of way

    The only times I got a little irked was when new ST fans started to write fanfic, and they fail to notice that 1) Kirk doesn't curse, 2) Vulcan's don't use contractions like I'm and it's and couldn't, 3) that Vulcan names are usually following a certain pattern and they suddenly make up a name that is clearly not Vulcan. Or, when they call English English, and not Standard, as they do in TOS. Then I privately wish they had sat down and maybe done a little research, watched some TOS eps, anything, to get their homework right.

    But I try not to be an elitist d*ck about it, so it's not an issue for me as such

    Edited on 06/03/2009 2:19am
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    OctoberGirl9

    [13]Jun 7, 2009
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    vampiredawn wrote:
    archangelwho wrote:

    You would not be here if you did not respect the past.

    Very true.

    I've seen what you're talking about, though. New fans of ST (because of the movie) feeling they're being put down by "old" ST fans, and old ST fans feeling the new fans are stomping all over their playground and mucking up everything. Personally I don't feel any particluar possessiveness over the old show. Well, I do, but not in the "you can't play with it!" kind of way. Mine is more like "HERE, BORROW AND WATCH AND ENJOY AND PLAY " kind of way

    The only times I got a little irked was when new ST fans started to write fanfic, and they fail to notice that 1) Kirk doesn't curse, 2) Vulcan's don't use contractions like I'm and it's and couldn't, 3) that Vulcan names are usually following a certain pattern and they suddenly make up a name that is clearly not Vulcan. Or, when they call English English, and not Standard, as they do in TOS. Then I privately wish they had sat down and maybe done a little research, watched some TOS eps, anything, to get their homework right.

    But I try not to be an elitist d*ck about it, so it's not an issue for me as such



    I agree with you. I'm in a strange position. I'm nineteen and have grown up with TOS, so when this movie came out. I was both nervous but excited about my generation getting to play with such an iconic cast and show. Happy with them both. LOL, the fanfictions do need a little work.
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    vampiredawn

    [14]Jun 8, 2009
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    I know what you mean about nervous! Man, just going to the premier with 1100 geeks was a rollercoaster of emotions *G* And then seeing how the fandom suddenly exploded into new territories, watching people I knew from other fandoms suddenly ordering the old show because they loved the movie. That was just such an awesome feeling. Also kinda weird like LOL where have you BEEN But overall a really heartwarming feeling
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    Gislef

    [15]Jun 23, 2009
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    Whether the fictional universe of the Trek setting has eliminated the original timeline, or created a new parallel timeline, that's... well, fiction. Unless the change in the timeline caused your video/DVD/whatever collection to disappear, and all the books, and all the comics, and TVland stops showing the old episodes, sites would still exist to detail them for archival purposes.

    Of course, if the events in the movie altered your personal timeline so you don't remember the series... umm, what were we talking about again?

    If the fictional temporal alteration somehow affected real life so that original Trek didn't exist, TV.com and other sites wouldn't have to delete all their Trek material: it'd disappear automatically in the new timeline.
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    seto1

    [16]Jun 25, 2009
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    Well said Gis and frankly the star trek universe is so big that both can exist.
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