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  • Avatar of Brodoin15

    Brodoin15

    [41]Oct 27, 2009
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    zepherous35 wrote:
    Brodoin15 wrote:
    zepherous35 wrote:

    I dont know any specifics for the books. I saw on another site that every single Clone War novel and comic is non-canon unless its tied to this series. I dont know whether to believe that or not, but it is feesible if you think about it. I mean, Lucas gave Filoni freedom to change whatever he felt likes, as long as it doesnt affect the Saga. I am hoping to ask Filoni myself at Celebration about what he plans. Im going VIP (if available), so I will be able to meet him Im sure.

    I can understand some changes with a few books and comic, but everything?

    Even books in which characters like Anakin or Obi-Wan do not appear? Republic Commando, for example, unless I missed something, neither of them ever appear. Mentioned, at the most. So why make that non-canon? Even if Delta Squad and/or Omega Squad shows up in the show, it could just be another mission. They are on missions all the time, doesn't mean a mission in the books doesn't have to happen.

    Like I said, a few books I can understand, but why change others like Republic Commando? :

    I thought I would mention: The Republic Commando series will not be finished by Karen Traviss. Like I said earlier, she quit Star Wars because of the continuity issues this series has raised. So, it may never be completed.

    Shame.

    I think she's making one more book, the second Imperial Commando book, but none after that.

    That makes me hope she ends that one with an ending that could be considered an end.

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    zepherous35

    [42]Oct 28, 2009
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    I think shes doing one that comes out soon, and one other after that. I wonder if Filoni feels bad for destroying her stories? I doubt it. I have seen him and theres something about him that I dont like. Im not sure what it is. Im sure that its the fact he blantantly goes against already established canon and changes what he pleases.
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    Brodoin15

    [43]Oct 28, 2009
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    I don't mind little changes, but when it comes to something bigger, he should at least ask if it would be alright. He may have control, but it would still be the good thing to do when you are changing things around.

    Anyway, unless I see something openly change, I will view all things taking place in the Clone Wars as canon. (As in change, I mean if they have... lets say Niner from Omega squad killed in an episode. I'd hate to say it, but if that takes place before one, or more, of the books, then I guess the books are non-canon.)

    Let's just hope that doesn't happen.

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    zepherous35

    [44]Oct 28, 2009
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    Thats the thing. Filoni is construing the timeline so much, other established stories are being wiped out. For example, when a novel/graphic novel is suppose to be taking place, Filoni is writing over it and having something else happen. So, it wipes out that story. You are right, however, that not everything will be overwritten. But they will be so far off base with what this series is coming up with, they wont have much merit in the canon universe. A good example would be the Jedi Prince series. That whole series has been retconned. I am thinking the same thing will happen with established Clone War era novels/graphic novels.

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    Brodoin15

    [45]Oct 28, 2009
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    I just hope that anything that isn't changed, remains that way.

    Anyway, I'm stilling reading Order 66, and I lent my friend Triple Zero, and I borrowed Survivor's Quest in return.

    As I was reading Order 66, a sentence said something about Jedi not being celibate. That got me thinking. I know Jedi, cannot get into relationships, at least in that Jedi Order, but they are not required to be celibate? That just sounds weird to me. Usually people to those things to prove feelings, but a Jedi cannot have those feelings. And having a "one night stand" doesn't sound very Jedi-like to me. I doubt it'll be fully explained, since it's an odd issue, but still, it got me thinking.

    I know that Jedi do have feeling, they simply train to keep them from controling how they think and what they do, in order to remain neutral. Again, speaking of the old Jedi Order. (That's what I call the Order before Luke's.) Even Qui-Gon fell in love, if I remember right, and I'm pretty sure Obi-Wan devloped feelings for someone when he was young.

    It's just an odd issue to talk about Jedi like this, I thinks.

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    zepherous35

    [46]Oct 28, 2009
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    Ive always thought of it as being up to each person's perceptions. I am sure you know the Jedi Code. "There is no passion, there is serenity" is the 3rd part. I guess its all how you define that code. I mean, there were secret relationships in the Old. Such as Kento Marek and Anakin Skywalker.

    Spoiler ahead for Coruscant Nights:

    If you remember Jax Pavan, he is a good example of how I see the Jedi in this instance. He is celebate. As he describes it, thats how I would perceive it. He shows it time and time again with Dejah. I mean, no one can resist a Zeltron like he did. And she was pouring the pheremones on! But then, he loves Laranth. He realizes it. And for the total loop, she is a Gray Paladin. Quite a conundrum. But, at that time (19 BBY), the Jedi were changing. There werent very many, so things got lost in translation, so to speak.

    So, back to the OP, I think Jedi are celebate. At least, the strongest of them are. The ones that have come in contact with the Unifying Force, and realize what it is and how it affects the universe. I think a Jedi that is totally in sink with the Force and listens to its callings, warnings, and guidances, will know the right thing to do. "There is no passion, there is serenity" sums it up pretty well.

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    Brodoin15

    [47]Oct 29, 2009
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    Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. Mace, Kit Fisto, Plo Koon, and other powerful Jedi I'm sure didn't have problems controlling those emotions. I do know Ki-Adi-Mundi was allowed to marry since, if I remember right, his species has a hard time reproducing. (Or something along those lines.) A special exception. I'm sure there where others, as well.

    Luke, on the other hand, made a good choice to allow Jedi in his Order to marry, if they choose to do so. It may have some drawbacks, but it also makes some sense. It would, at least, produce children that would most likely be strong enough in the force to become Jedi.

    Edited on 10/29/2009 11:14am
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    zepherous35

    [48]Oct 30, 2009
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    I think they both have their ups and downs. Luke is very passive. I mean, of course, he never saw how Yoda led, per se. He had to question every little thing since Obi-Wan left him. He was ridiculously passive during the Yuuzhan Vong War, and billions died because of it. Finally, he stood up and did what was right and slew the Overlord. Or did he? Lol. Yoda is passive, to a point. But, he will stand up when he needs to, and defend. He has proven that. Luke only defends when he absolutely, positively has to. Big difference in those two Grand Masters.

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    Brodoin15

    [49]Oct 31, 2009
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    In a way, it almost seems backwards.

    Luke's training was rushed, and he didn't get all the morals that the Jedi Yoda and other Jedi from the old Order did. Yet he was more passive on things. Luke is a powrful Jedi, no doubt, but it seems as if he should be more willing to fight back.

    Yoda, on the other hand, was the Grand Master of a more strict Order. They enforced more rules on Jedi, if I remember right, yet from what I can tell, he is more willing to fight back in order to defend.

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    zepherous35

    [50]Oct 31, 2009
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    I think Luke's indecisions stem from the fact that he is so insecure. I mean, he thinks every miniscule detail out for months before he acts. It took him 5 years to decide to finally go after Shimrra. However, he has always been limited by the Galaxy's government. He's always worried about what they think, and what is in the realm of acceptable.

    Yoda, on the other hand, did what it took to defend the citizens of the Republic. The Jedi of the Old werent forced to be Generals. Yoda (with the council) decided to help with the War, a decision he regretted way before Order 66. But, they are the Defenders of Peace, so they had to take action. You know where it goes from there. Luke is extremely strong in the Force, but he doesnt always know how to use it. Yoda is the most powerful Jedi ever, in my opinion, and he still didnt have what it took to defeat the Emperor. But, if you believe in the Chosen One, it wasnt Yoda's place to begin with.

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    Brodoin15

    [51]Nov 1, 2009
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    That's the drawback to Luke's rushed training. He trianed with Obi-Wan for a couple days, at the most. He trained with Yoda for only a few weeks to a few months. (I don't think it's really stated.) The rest he pretty much trained himself.

    He is indeed a powerful Jedi. Very well most likely the most powerful in his time. Even if he was afraid of what the government might thing, I doubt they'd put much against him as long as he helped fight the Vong.

    If you don't mind a topic change, what is your list on the most powerful Jedi? Top 5 or top 10. Perhaps even list the most powerful in two classes. The old Order (Yoda's) and Luke's Order.

    I'm just doing the old Order now. I'll do Luke's later.

    1) Yoda - Of course. Grand Master and very powerful. Easily the most wise Jedi of his Order.

    2) Mace Windu - Second only to Yoda. If I remember, he's also the best swordsman in the Order.

    3) Obi-Wan Kenobi - Both wise and powerful. Of course, that comes natual when your master is someone like Qui-Gon.

    4) Qui-Gon Ginn - If memory serves right, Qui-Gon was a Jedi who bent the rules of the Order often. Simply walking in on the Council un-announced, even. However, even the Council knew that he was a wise and strong Jedi. Had Darth Maul not killed him, he very well may have found out who Sidious was. (At least, that's what me and my friends think.)

    5) Plo Koon - I feel I had to have a Jedi that isn't a main character on this list. While Plo Koon may not be known well by non-fans, I've always thought he was a very strong Jedi. A lifelong member of the Jedi Council, he survives the Clone Wars while other members were lost. A favourite of mine, I hated seeing his death when Order 66 was given. (I remember closing my eyes when the clones started fireing at his starfighter. I didn't want to see it.)

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    zepherous35

    [52]Nov 1, 2009
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    You list pretty much mimics my own. However, I would put Obi-Wan right after Yoda. Obi-Wan is much wiser than sentients give him credit. You are right, Mace is very strong. He dances close to the Dark side of the Force, with being a Master of Vaapad. But, I feel like his power made him ignorant. Of course, speaking of Anakin, all the Jedi were ignorant, in a sense. But, I always felt like Mace helped push Anakin to the dark side with his attitude towards him. He didnt believe in the Prophecy, per se, and he really took it out on Anakin. A master of Mace's stature shouldnt have distrusted a fellow Jedi so. Even if it was warranted. I think that was a huge weakness in Mace.

    Obi-Wan was very wise and powerful himself. His image was tarnished with what his apprentice did during the War. He was underrated. When the time came, he did what he should have. Although, he thought he killed Vader, but he still took him down. And 19 years later, he won the final showdown between the two. He was always two steps ahead of Anakin, even if Anakin/Vader thought differently. I hold the assumption that Obi-Wan knew about Padme for some time.

    I will post more later about my list for the NJO. Ive ran out of time tonight, so I will post more tomorrow.

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    Willy105

    [53]Nov 2, 2009
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    A memorial video for those who died during Clone Wars Season 1.
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    Brodoin15

    [54]Nov 2, 2009
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    zepherous35 wrote:

    You list pretty much mimics my own. However, I would put Obi-Wan right after Yoda. Obi-Wan is much wiser than sentients give him credit. You are right, Mace is very strong. He dances close to the Dark side of the Force, with being a Master of Vaapad. But, I feel like his power made him ignorant. Of course, speaking of Anakin, all the Jedi were ignorant, in a sense. But, I always felt like Mace helped push Anakin to the dark side with his attitude towards him. He didnt believe in the Prophecy, per se, and he really took it out on Anakin. A master of Mace's stature shouldnt have distrusted a fellow Jedi so. Even if it was warranted. I think that was a huge weakness in Mace.

    Obi-Wan was very wise and powerful himself. His image was tarnished with what his apprentice did during the War. He was underrated. When the time came, he did what he should have. Although, he thought he killed Vader, but he still took him down. And 19 years later, he won the final showdown between the two. He was always two steps ahead of Anakin, even if Anakin/Vader thought differently. I hold the assumption that Obi-Wan knew about Padme for some time.

    I will post more later about my list for the NJO. Ive ran out of time tonight, so I will post more tomorrow.

    I do somewhat agree with what you said about Mace. I did notice that what he said in Episode 3 really seemed to push Anakin's "buttons." It was obvious to the Council - or at least Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace - that Anakin was emotional. Even when Anakin was on the Council, however short his term was, Mace seemed to look down on him. Even with both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, easily and without a doubt two of the most powerful and wise Jedi to ever be in the Order, who felt that Anakin was the Chosen One.

    There is no doubt that Mace was one of the most powerful Jedi ever, but he did help push Anakin to the dark side.

    I do think it is possible Obi-Wan knew about Anakin and Padme. At the least he knew something was up between them.

    Edited on 11/02/2009 10:56am
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    Brodoin15

    [55]Nov 2, 2009
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    Willy105 wrote:
    A memorial video for those who died during Clone Wars Season 1.

    You think they'll kill any more Gran senators this season?

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    zepherous35

    [56]Nov 2, 2009
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    Im going to try to refrain from talking about The Clone Wars on this thread. Also, you're right all the way. Mace was one of the most powerful Jedi that the Order ever had. But each Jedi was unique with his/her/its abilities. Qui-Gon was extremely wise, but had weaknesses. I mean, the Sith took him down. But, he did come back from the netherworld of the Force. He did have a hand in the protection of Luke, among other things (like leading Obi-Wan to Ferus Olin).

    Also, Yoda was probably the most powerful and wise the Jedi Order ever had, both New and Old. But, the Emperor took him down. Boy was he powerful though. I mean, he caught Sith Lightning with his bare hands. That says enough right there. One person I think should go on the list for the Old Order, would be Anakin. Yea, he is cocky, and power hungry. But, he is also a cunning warrior, and extremely strong in the Force. He had many abilities other Jedi could only dream of.

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    zepherous35

    [57]Nov 4, 2009
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    Have you seen the new Darth Talon premium figure/statue? Its nice! Really detailed and it shows how beautiful she is, even being as evil as she is. I got it preordered already, and it doesnt come out until the middle of 2010.
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    Willy105

    [58]Nov 4, 2009
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    zepherous35 wrote:
    Have you seen the new Darth Talon premium figure/statue? Its nice! Really detailed and it shows how beautiful she is, even being as evil as she is. I got it preordered already, and it doesnt come out until the middle of 2010.

    What stroy is she from?

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    Brodoin15

    [59]Nov 4, 2009
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    Very nice. I'm not afraid to admit that it's pretty hot.

    She's from the Legacy era. Takes place over 100 years after Episode IV. It's about Cade Skywalker, a decendent of Luke that is a Jedi turned bounty hunter that survived another Jedi purge. It's an interesting story.

    I was kind of upset to find out who Darth Krayt was, though. I didn't expect it to be him. (Not saying who. Don't want to spoil it for anyone behind in the story, or whom want to get into it now.)

    Which reminds me, Master K'Kruhk is alive in Legacy as well. Crazy how long his species' lifespan is. Also crazy how he's survived that long. From the Clone Wars to Order 66 to Legacy.

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    zepherous35

    [60]Nov 4, 2009
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    I couldnt believe who Krayt was either. I thought it was a nice twist.

    Spoiler Ahead:

    I could see him becoming something like that after his confrontation with Obi-Wan on Tatooine. He was going around killing so many people, and the Tuskens are such savages, anyways. He really adopted their lifestyle.

    Spoiler End

    That statue is nice of Darth Talon, I just had to get it. Its going to be the center of my statue/premium figure collection. Well, it and slave Leia, lol.

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