Stargate Atlantis Forums

Syfy (ended 2009)

Official Discussion Thread - Enemy at the Gate (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of zhangliao1

    zhangliao1

    [121]Apr 27, 2009
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    those are good points but
    in stargate continuum ordinary fighters were capable of fighting death gliders(obviously not as good as the 302's but that doesnt matter)
    the ancients lost the war because of numbers and now here the wraith are at earth its pretty clear who has the numbers

    even if earth's fighters arent as useful as the 302's the sheer number of them should have easily stopped the darts

    now lets remember that the drones are the ancients main weapons(the only ancient weapon that wasnt a drone was the satellite from season 1)
    so ancient warships use the same weapons as atlantis
    but more then that the numbers of the wraith were enough to defeat ancient warships but it wasn't enough to defeat atlantis remember how they were sieged for years
    which means atlantis with 3 zpm's the shield is more powerful then anything else by far
    in other words even if atlantis wasn't able to destroy the hive there is no way the hive would be able to destroy it(or get that close to destroying it atlantis's shields should have been more then a match for the hive)

    now your best point is that ancient tech is 10,000 years old
    but your forgetting a few things
    firstly the ori tech is brand new and the new asgard weapons and shields were capable of besting the ori
    secondly in the 10,000 years since the war the wraith havent upgraded their tech at all either its exactly the same as it was
    they had 10,000 years to make an equivilent of the zpm and they failed likewise they never made any shields and they never upgraded their weapons

    sorry but no matter how many zpm's the wraith get they wouldn't be able to make a ship more powerful then anything in the stargate universe

    the ship should not be able to defeat 3 earth ships with asgard shields and weapons(shown to be more powerful then ancient and ori tech)
    and damage atlantis's shields that much in 60 seconds

    like i said before the wraith are technologically inferior if power generation was their problem why weren't they able to make better power generation methods?
    because they aren't advanced enough
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  • Avatar of Spinobreaker

    Spinobreaker

    [122]Apr 27, 2009
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    well, ur point is good in theory, but there's one problem with it, they not only flew from another galaxy on one zpm that had power drained from it already, the other 2 may not have been at full power because they were being used on asuras and by todd for god knows what... so they were not at 100% to begin with...

    Then they used the wormhole drive (added because itll drive the destiny in SGU)and its ment to use a $h1te load of power according to zelenka, so there more gone...

    Then it takes power to keep orbit and fire drones, and just firing drones took a ZPM on earth, i know it controlled thousands of the damn things but still...

    and dont forget, the first volley of the hive pushed atlantis into the atmosphere putting more strain onto the shields...

    Back to the hive, when making plasma based weapons like the hive uses the more power at ur disposal the more concentrated the shot (this is using real world physics from research into them as real weapons) and if u have a lot of power then u focus more energy into the shot, doing exponential damage to ur target, so draining an asgard shield as fast as they did, it took about 8 shots after all, and atlantis took aporx 40 shots before it was on the ropes and the hive had taken a fair wack of damage by then....
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [123]Apr 28, 2009
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    Great points. And exactly, those 2 ZPM's they got were not going to be full and Todd might've been using them as well. Then finally the wormhole drive would certainly drain what's left of the remaining powers.

    No matter how powerful the ZPM is, it is not going to make the drones any more powerful and it also depends on how many drones they have. From what it seemed, they were only using them sparingly rather than like 'fire all at once'. If anything Beckett was focused on mainly: keep the city flying and keep the shield up. Sheppard otho, probably might have fired all the drones at once.

    Plus no one has definitively stated how powerful an Asgard core is compared to a ZPM. Now if the Odyssey was around [with its ZPM] I'm sure it would be in the fight much longer than any standard Earth ship.

    Now as far as the darts vs the F302's, well sure they could've had some F15,F16,F18,F22's flying at the same time, but I guess you could attribute it to: not enough in the budget to include real planes, and the ultimate result of the base being destroyed was going to happen regardless of the extra fighter jets sent in to fight the darts.
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  • Avatar of zhangliao1

    zhangliao1

    [124]May 4, 2009
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    well obviously it had to do with budget and the fact that they wanted the chair gone but its just not realistic for then to rely on the 302's only in that situation

    now you make some good points about the zpm's but i doubt todd drained them much or at all when he was doing experiments on them but the whole wormhole idea your right they would have taken a lot out of them

    but firing the drones and keeping it in orbit wouldn't have had any noticable effect on them

    but also remember it would have taken tons of power to grow the super hive in the first place so their zpm's would have been drained as well but maybe slightly better

    and yes the drones couldn't get any stronger but atlantis's shield should not have struggled as it is so much more advanced then the wraith even if the wraith have their own zpm's

    and now that i think about it(and watched the episode again)the satelite in season 1 is even more powerful then the asgard beams it sliced straight through the hive with ease and it was powered by a mere naquadah generator and we know the wraith have powersources that can at least match that

    so even if in the 10,000 years since the ancients left and wraith were somehow not able to come up with a better power source(impossible)if they really were advancing in tech they should have been able to create more powerful weapons as shown by the ancient satelite that doesnt have much power requirements

    so in the end we get back to the fact that the wraith are simply technologically inferior and even if they get zpm's there is no way they would be able to take on 3 earth ships with beam weapons and bring atlantis down so quickly
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [125]May 4, 2009
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    Well again, inferior tech or not, the Hive ship's hull is part organic and has the advantage of regenerating from attacks. If an Earth ship is hit, the only thing that can be done is to replace the damaged section of the ship with other metal parts.

    The satellite from season 1 was more offence than defence, so likely all power was spent on the beam weapon. And maybe it depleted the generator after that shot, but we won't know if it would've had any effect on a Super hive ship.

    Atlantis's shield was probably taxed already due to the trip from the wormhole. Like with any tech, if you overuse it, it won't be as effective as if it was just turned on. I'm sure if the city had some time to shut down the sheild or a few hours after being out of the wormhole then it would've been more at full strength and taken on the hits from the Super hive ship.

    But all these are "what if's". We can continue to speculate, but since none of us knows TPTB and how they can explain and answer our questions, then all our questions are kinda moot.
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  • Avatar of zhangliao1

    zhangliao1

    [126]May 5, 2009
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    well atlantis's shields are designed to keep working as long as there is power thats why atlantis held off the wraith for so long

    well of course the satelite would've had a big effect on the super hive just rewatch the ep with the satelite to see how powerful it is
    but thats not the point im trying to make
    the point im making is that power generation wasn't the wraiths weakness just their inferior tech
    we know the satelite is more powerful then the asgard beams and all it takes to power it is a naquadah generator(also the satelite only worked once because they had to reroute through systems if it was in perfect working order it would've kept working remember mckay said when fully charged it would be able to take out all 3 hives)

    anyway the satelite proves its not power generation thats the problem it also proves that earth tech(well asgard really)is superior and should have been able to take out the super hive
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  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [127]May 6, 2009
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    Ok this is true but the satilite has one major weakness which is its charging time.The satilite focuses massive amounts of energy and takes time to reach maximum im also guessing but judging from the power requirements that a naq generation could have powered only a few shots,may three or four before they were drained.
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  • Avatar of zhangliao1

    zhangliao1

    [128]May 13, 2009
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    didnt take long at all for it to charge up

    remember whatshisname turned it off until the wraith were in range so it cant have taken long

    also i'd say it could do more then 3 or 4 shots
    mckay never said anything about the power requirements been huge

    anyway thats irrelevant because if the wraith had bothered to design similar weapons they would be able to destroy any ship that came up against them in probably 1 shot

    i doubt even earth's ships could stand up to a weapon like that basically they wouldn't need to many shots

    fact is if they had advanced at all they would have been able to build stronger weapons
    the zpm couldn't have made that much of a difference
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  • Avatar of zzbeach

    zzbeach

    [129]May 15, 2009
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    Apparently "Rising" and "Enemy at the Gate" will be released on Blu-Ray with added scenes.

    Here's the links to the info:

    http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Stargate-Atlantis-Fans-Choice-Blu/11873

    and from Gateworld:

    http://www.gateworld.net/news/2009/05/new-info-on-stargates-summer-dvds/

    Still no word either way on and Atlantis full blown movie.

    I'm very curious about Enemy at the Gate added footage. Most of us feel that the Atlantis finale was good but felt rushed. If they have some 30 minutes or so of added scenes I'd be happy, even though I think it should have been a two part episode. I don't have Blu-Ray but for this I'll probaly buy it if the episodes do not come out on DVD.

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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [130]May 15, 2009
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    I totally agree, I wonder how much time they cut out of the finale. Plus I do hope they have the Apollo-Sun Tsu battle and wormhole drive scenes.
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  • Avatar of zzbeach

    zzbeach

    [131]May 15, 2009
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    Major, if those scenes are included then it would have been a true finale.
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [132]May 15, 2009
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    Amen. It also would've at least made the wait for the movie more bareable. I mean such a scene would've taken at least 5-7min max. It's the last episode, go all out, don't hold back on some stuff.
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  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [133]May 16, 2009
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    I really would help me get over the sg1 finale.
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  • Avatar of zzbeach

    zzbeach

    [134]May 16, 2009
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    SG1 finale was not that good but "Ark of Truth" and "Continuum" made up for the disappointment. But that follows sci fi's pattern with the Stagate franchise. Neither show was given ample time to write and produce a proper finale. And both shows felt confident in another season right before cancellation.
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  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [135]May 17, 2009
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    Being confident in another season is not an excuse for short changing a finale.Im not sure how many herd watch supernatural but stargate writers really should have taken a few lessons from it.
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  • Avatar of zzbeach

    zzbeach

    [136]May 17, 2009
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    seto1, the short changing on the SG1 and Atlantis finales came from the Sci Fi channel. They cancelled both shows in the middle of filming the season. On the other hand, Battlestar Galactica was cancelled after the 3rd season and Ron Moore and David Eick wrote the entire 4th season knowing it was ending. That's the way it should have been done with SG1 and Atlantis.
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  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [137]May 17, 2009
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    Ok my bad so are we going to start back discussing show content.
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  • Avatar of zzbeach

    zzbeach

    [138]May 18, 2009
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    The amount of time and cooperation showed Atlantis by The Sci Fi channel had a direct effect on content, especially "Enemy at the Gate."
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  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [139]May 18, 2009
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    That may be so however that should not stop us from enjoying the episode the show did great beging with Rising.
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  • Avatar of foofersgod

    foofersgod

    [140]Jun 6, 2009
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    Did anyone else find this episode RUSHED? look at season 1 ender.. it ran over 2 episodes in season 1 and 2 in season 2... every season was a few episodes... this one, they had a problem then Mckay, Sheppard, Zelenka, or someone will pull an answer out of his hat and it will work... Problems were solved in minutes not days. Oh and my personal favorite: (SPOILER MAYBE) Woolsey talks to Jennifer and says that the plan will either work or they will be torn to bits in seconds... (paraphrasing to avoid spoiling anything) and she says, "Oh, okay" like its nothing. Huh i say. This show was so rushed and trying to end so fast was a spoiler. they should have at least built up a bit more to it like I don't know having a body of ideas and not just throwing a space trek of bilions of miles into 40 minutes... (the length of the show i mean not actually the problem)

    Those writers could have had the entire last episode the movie. THAT would have been a great movie. and Longer! but NO they had to condense it into a spoiler for everyone to say WOW but they don't. The viewers asked for content which includes obsticles, and solutions. with actual problems carrying out the probelm. Instead they just had, "oh we can't do that..." well we could do this let's try." "oh look that worked good job everyone." There there is the whole episode just about 20 times taht happens. if i am wrong so be it. write and tell me if you thought it was rushed.

    And how did no one notice Atlantis Landing? Hmmm? No give aways here. if you say the show you'll know what i mean.

    foofersgod

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