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Syfy (ended 2011)

Official Discussion Thread: Twin Destinies (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]Mar 13, 2011
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    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 3/14/11 episode "Twin Destinies" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
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  • Avatar of CaptainHarkness

    CaptainHarkness

    [2]Mar 14, 2011
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    I've been looking forward to this one for quite some time. I have a small hunch it may involve an alternate universe but I could very well be wrong.

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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [3]Mar 14, 2011
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    Good episode I usually don't care for time paradox stories but this was done well now I'm a little confused did or didn't Rush do something to sabotage the mission. I don't find it plausible if he did since how would he know for sure he would survive a time shift and the thing with the chair. Okay does our Rush now have the knowledge because another he sat in the chair and then there's the previews for next week.......

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    kanniballl

    [4]Mar 14, 2011
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    danharr wrote:


    Good episode I usually don't care for time paradox stories but this was done well now I'm a little confused did or didn't Rush do something to sabotage the mission. I don't find it plausible if he did since how would he know for sure he would survive a time shift and the thing with the chair. Okay does our Rush now have the knowledge because another he sat in the chair and then there's the previews for next week.......



    I doubt "our" Rush got any extra knowledge from "the other" Rush entering the chair. There have been a number of Stargate episodes involving parallel timelines and something happening to one person doesn't affect the other.



    My feeling from "our" Rush asked the question in the chair-room implies that "the other" Rush did do something; perhaps the very same thing "our" Rush was going to do.


    Purposeful time travel is a possibility, maybe he saw it as the only option to keep Destiny going, salvaging equipment from an alternate version. But I doubt that even if he did do something that he meant for the crew to die.


    But considering how hard solar-flare time travel is in the Stargate universe, I don't see how he could've done it even with Destiny's computers.


    Plus... what's was up with the "Previously on..." scenes. When they showed them I thought maybe the super-smart Aliens were going to play a part.

    Edited on 03/14/2011 10:05pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of fladimir7

    fladimir7

    [5]Mar 14, 2011
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    Yea, stargate universe just keeps getting better and better. I don't think Rush lied and really sabotaged their plan so they could stay. As far as his determination to his goals, i don't think he'd be willing to sacrifice everyone for it.
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  • Avatar of scottjoc

    scottjoc

    [6]Mar 15, 2011
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    How many times are they going to get rid of Telford. Hahaha, its getting beyond a joke.
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  • Avatar of BenelBarak

    BenelBarak

    [7]Mar 15, 2011
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    is it just me or was this paradox badly thought out? *Warning* I dont usually do this, but unfortunately im gonna have to let my inner nerd out for this one, otherwise he wont shut up
    Also, SPOILERS

    let me know if im missing something but the destiny crew tries to dial earth, they all perish, rush survives and travels back in time and basically stops everyone from dialing earth (assuming the other rush's version of events is true, though as a rule i never trust that guy)

    now with all this in mind why do they keep talking about how everyone at the sgc thinks theyre dead, and several times they joked that col telford would use the stones and switch with himself,

    originally i did believe that the sgc thought the des crew were dead simply because they were expecting everyone to come through the gate and no one on the destiny got round to reporting future rush's appearance and intervention, however later when they started talking about telford and the stones i realized that they seem to be under the impression that they travelled to future rush's reality, instead of F.Rush travelling to theirs (or what actually happened)

    unless ive missed something huge (and admittedly i was a lil baked, so its possible) then the writers really have screwed up, shame considering all other sgc time travel episodes were completely well thought out all other SG timetravel episodes were, but i guess thats why this show just got just as soon as it got a good storyline going

    anyways now that the nerds back in the closet (the same one i keep my BSG flightsuit in), this truly was a momentus episode, the first episode in the stargate series to drop the F bomb,
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [8]Mar 15, 2011
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    BenelBarak wrote:
    is it just me or was this paradox badly thought out?



    Their treatment of the time travel paradox works, at least as much as any other science fiction. Though they stopped themselves from making the attempt, 2 survivors from the failed attempt traveled a few hours into the past (Rush and Telford). In Stargate's time-travel there isn't a logical-loop paradox or end-of-world paradox, just alternate timelines and thus alternate versions/copies of people.



    In Stargate, it's part of cannon that a Solar Flare can sling-shot a wormhole through time. Rush suspects that due to the 9th Chevron + the sun the time-travel effect was so hard-core that it sent the whole ship Destiny into the past as well besides just sending the gate-travellers into the past.


    In the first attempt, Telford got sent several hours into the past (give-or-take). I *imagine* it was after their last Stones communication with Earth about their upcoming attempt.


    So from Earth's standpoint...


    A) They were expecting Destiny's crew to return


    B) Telford flies through slightly ahead of time (a few hours into his past). Maybe the SGC is a little confused, or maybe they think Destiny got to the sun a little early.


    C) Telford debriefs the SGC, mentioning that Young/Greer/Eli/etc decided to stay on Destiny against his wishes.


    D) Telfrod swaps places with Rush briefly with the stones, finds an empty and dying Destiny.


    E) I imagine Telford tells the SGC that everyone is dead when Rush disconnects the stones.


    F) The SGC gets informed that there was a temporal anomaly, the scientists probably shrug and say "not again!"



    So even though "our" Telford died, "the other" Telford survived and is back on Earth. And even though "the other" Rush died/ascended/whatever we still have "our" Rush.

    Edited on 03/15/2011 9:00am
    Edited 7 total times.
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [9]Mar 15, 2011
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    scottjoc wrote:
    How many times are they going to get rid of Telford. Hahaha, its getting beyond a joke.


    Yeh, he's really SGU's whipping boy.


    First he's a jerk


    Then he's a mind-controlled traitor


    Then Young kills him (briefly)


    Then he's shot by the Lucian Alliance


    Then he's stranded on a ship with aliens


    Then he's sent to earth without the rest of the crew


    Then he's electrocuted

    Edited on 03/15/2011 7:25am
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  • Avatar of KenBacklund

    KenBacklund

    [10]Mar 15, 2011
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    Aww poor Telford... I believe writers originally named him Kenny. Bastards!


    On a more serious note.. it was very much expected either the copies or orginals of Rush and Telford would die/disappear/explode/implode/whatever, not making it past the ending of this episode. However I was hoping the writers would make something original and keep one or two of them for at least a few episodes. It would be fun with two Telford and/or two Rush, especially if they would disagree with each other.



    Edited on 03/15/2011 10:53am
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  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [11]Mar 15, 2011
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    kanniballl wrote:

    BenelBarak wrote:
    is it just me or was this paradox badly thought out?



    Their treatment of the time travel paradox works, at least as much as any other science fiction. Though they stopped themselves from making the attempt, 2 survivors from the failed attempt traveled a few hours into the past (Rush and Telford). In Stargate's time-travel there isn't a logical-loop paradox or end-of-world paradox, just alternate timelines and thus alternate versions/copies of people.



    In Stargate, it's part of cannon that a Solar Flare can sling-shot a wormhole through time. Rush suspects that due to the 9th Chevron + the sun the time-travel effect was so hard-core that it sent the whole ship Destiny into the past as well besides just sending the gate-travellers into the past.


    In the first attempt, Telford got sent several hours into the past (give-or-take). I *imagine* it was after their last Stones communication with Earth about their upcoming attempt.


    So from Earth's standpoint...


    A) They were expecting Destiny's crew to return


    B) Telford flies through slightly ahead of time (a few hours into his past). Maybe the SGC is a little confused, or maybe they think Destiny got to the sun a little early.


    C) Telford debriefs the SGC, mentioning that Young/Greer/Eli/etc decided to stay on Destiny against his wishes.


    D) Telfrod swaps places with Rush briefly with the stones, finds an empty and dying Destiny.


    E) I imagine Telford tells the SGC that everyone is dead when Rush disconnects the stones.


    F) The SGC gets informed that there was a temporal anomaly, the scientists probably shrug and say "not again!"



    So even though "our" Telford died, "the other" Telford survived and is back on Earth. And even though "the other" Rush died/ascended/whatever we still have "our" Rush.



    That's how I see it, the entire Destiny travelled back in time before Telford went through the gate, the problem is though that they state that radio signals can't transfer through the ninth chevron connection, so no IDC so why did "home world command" (not the SGC as i'm guessing this is all on Alantis) let Telford through the Iris, they weren't expecting an incoming connection for another 12 hours.
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  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [12]Mar 15, 2011
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    Wait i obviously mean shield not Iris if it is the Atlantis Gate that wins the wormhole war.



    PS.


    How come the second destiny didn'tdisappearin a ridiculous puff of time smoke, just like in continuum, oh wait i know the answer to that, cos continuum was stupid.

    Edited on 03/15/2011 11:55am
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [13]Mar 15, 2011
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    TOCM19 wrote:


    Wait i obviously mean shield not Iris if it is the Atlantis Gate that wins the wormhole war.





    My take on it was, the Atlantis gateswere incompatible with the Milky Way galaxy.


    Which is one of the points of the old Midway Station... transferring from Network A to Network B.


    But I could be wrong.




    But your point about the Iris / Shield / Whatever is still valid. They weren't expecting it for another couple of hours then why did they let him through? How'd they know he wasn't a Go'uld or whatever?


    Unless they knew that the readings from an incoming 9th Chevron Wormhole would be so abnormal that the they'd know it was from Destiny and not some regular Gate.


    Edited on 03/15/2011 12:17pm
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  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [14]Mar 15, 2011
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    They are compatible, Pegasus gates need to be configured to work using the milky way co-ordinates (and have less symbols so may not be able to dial out everywhere) but atlantis would take precedent for incoming wormholes, as seen when atlantis tried to dial earth and got the hive ship in orbit.

    Also when telford did arrive and Rush communicated with earth, how did none of them realise that there was a time difference? And didn't the "real" Destiny communicate with earth between telford reaching earth and rush showing up at the star?
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    amoxus

    [15]Mar 15, 2011
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    What I understood was that destiny traveled back in time before anyone entered the gate. In which case there is no inconsistency.

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    haldrey

    [16]Mar 15, 2011
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    Fantastic episode, now I wish for the producers to reverse their decision and continue with the show.
    Edited on 03/17/2011 8:06am
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [17]Mar 15, 2011
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    On the point of how did Telford get onto base [I assume SGC]: Someone most likely used the stones to notify earth they are heading to earth and to keep the iris open in case they don't have an IDC.


    As for SGC or Atlantis, it doesn't matter which one, because an early SG-1 ep showed that it's possible to end up on earth at either gates [SGC and the antarctica gate]. So either gate could be possible.

    Edited on 03/15/2011 7:58pm
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  • Avatar of CaptainHarkness

    CaptainHarkness

    [18]Mar 15, 2011
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    Fantastic episode. It's definitely up there with my favorites of the season. The thing with Telford is a little neat, it's reminds of that one ST: Voyager episodewith the two Voyagers and such. I also loved the mention of Daniel, carter and McKay. That sounds like something he'd do.


    MajLorne wrote:


    As for SGC or Atlantis, it doesn't matter which one, because an early SG-1 ep showed that it's possible to end up on earth at either gates [SGC and the antarctica gate]. So either gate could be possible.


    But we know that when a Pegasusgate and Milky Way gate inhabit the same planet then you'll come out at the Pegasus gate because it's of newer design. So unless the Atlantis gate is disconnected then Telford probably came out there. Hopefully the Atlantis crossover will answet some of these questions.

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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [19]Mar 15, 2011
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    Yeah, true. I think it would make sense to still use the SGC because the ZPM should be conserved as much as possible. SGC being a secure military base and all...
    Atlantis is probably being studied by scientists all over the world. But I too hope this is cleared up soon. Would be nice to see the status of the city on this show and not just mentioned.
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  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [20]Mar 16, 2011
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    amoxus wrote:

    What I understood was that destiny traveled back in time before anyone entered the gate. In which case there is no inconsistency.



    The issue is that they knew what time to expect them, and telford showed up 12 hours early, they surely would have at least asked the question, and when Rush connected with earth they had to have realised something dodgy had happened.
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