Stargate Universe Forums

Syfy (ended 2011)

The Hydroponics Lab - The Official Show Rant/Complaint Thread

  • Avatar of someguy0830

    someguy0830

    [21]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 10,103
    Darker and edgier are the terms that describe SGU, not younger.

    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Having flying kinos and ship which listens when someone says: "We need air!", "We need water!". and so on makes SGU as convenient as any other SG show - only the speed is much slower and humor and action are a bit less. Or just remember how easily Chloe got rescued from the alien ship. Remember as well how TIME simply never happened?
    All shows have some conveniences, but SGU executes them in a decidedly inconvenient way, namely race against the clock scenarios.

    "We need air!" turns into "Oh crap, we brought back water-stealing bugs." "We need water!" turns into "Oh crap, the water is killing us." Chloe's rescue wasn't that easy, and Rush was the one who did it. That was at least foreshadowed. The other SG series abused this far more than SGU has.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Yaspaa

    Yaspaa

    [22]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 02/12/07
    • level: 79
    • rank: "Make It So"
    • posts: 1,874
    TOCM19 wrote:

    Yaspaa wrote:
    Didn't SG1 (in episode 200) joke with the high convenience factor?
    It also Joked about shows that quickly throw up titles, and joked about all the shows out there claiming to be "Younger" and "Edgier" which were terms used to describe SGU.

    The whole episode took the Mickey out of itself and basically said, yes this is lighthearted fun, not to be taken too seriously. I'm pretty sure that episode didn't joke about either of those things dude.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TuMulTusX

    TuMulTusX

    [23]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/09
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 225

    someguy0830 wrote:
    Darker and edgier are the terms that describe SGU, not younger.
    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Having flying kinos and ship which listens when someone says: "We need air!", "We need water!". and so on makes SGU as convenient as any other SG show - only the speed is much slower and humor and action are a bit less. Or just remember how easily Chloe got rescued from the alien ship. Remember as well how TIME simply never happened?
    All shows have some conveniences, but SGU executes them in a decidedly inconvenient way, namely race against the clock scenarios. "We need air!" turns into "Oh crap, we brought back water-stealing bugs." "We need water!" turns into "Oh crap, the water is killing us." Chloe's rescue wasn't that easy, and Rush was the one who did it. That was at least foreshadowed. The other SG series abused this far more than SGU has.
    Same in SG-1: "We steal a Go'a'uld glider and make a nice airforce fight jet out of it" turns in to: "OMG, this thing is boogy-trapped, we can't control it and now we are going to die in space!". Or: The Tolen's alliance with the Go'a'uld turns out being their doomsday and devistation. Or Sam's father becoming a Tok'ra, making him not really trusted at earth but also not really trusted by the Tok'ra ...

    I guess in comparison, currently I would win since I have more episodes to choose from, so, that wouldn't be fair!
    Still, the conveniences in SGU are no less. Just think about the added Kino feature in LOST: all of a sudden those devices can go by themself and search for exits. Eli has studdied this things, probably for months, yet he didn't know that?

    Further,
    They go down into the tunnels to 'rescue' the KINO - all 4 of them!!! This had to be this way, so, that the plot of this episode could 'conveniently' progress in getting them lost. I mean, they probably lose KINOs all the time when they send them through as a MAUP to see if a planet is save. If the planet isn't save, they can't get back the KINO, yet, they all 4 have to go down and get this one, putting everyone at risk! BTW: The KINO stores everything it records, right? Eli only would have to rewind / play the footage in order to trace back the steps. Yet, wait! That would have been too convenient! Let's get our people lost, place some cavemen maps on the walls and - once everything is really dramatic - the KINO finds the exit and waits there for them. Now, why would the KINO have done that on its own? Why wouldn't the KINO as well exit the tunnels and fly back if it is so artificially smart? Because we would not have had a reason to get our people lost in first place!

    And here once more: they all risk their lifes while hunting for the KINO in the tunnel. They leave once one of their people is barried behind some rocks, not knowing if he is still alive or not; leaving me with the impression that they value a tiny KINO over a human's life! And just rewatch how conveniently Greer made it out of the tunnels. Did you see the huge rocks? That he had no major injuries is quite strange!

    Edited on 05/02/2010 12:19pm
    Edited 3 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [24]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    Yaspaa wrote:
    TOCM19 wrote:

    Yaspaa wrote:
    Didn't SG1 (in episode 200) joke with the high convenience factor?
    It also Joked about shows that quickly throw up titles, and joked about all the shows out there claiming to be "Younger" and "Edgier" which were terms used to describe SGU.

    The whole episode took the Mickey out of itself and basically said, yes this is lighthearted fun, not to be taken too seriously. I'm pretty sure that episode didn't joke about either of those things dude.


    Yeah it did, the titles were thrown up quickly after "No one bothers with long intro sequencesc anymore"

    And they had the "entire cast replaced with younger edgier versions"

    "That chick was so totally a Goa'uld"
    "Yeah, but I was still gonna tap that!"
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [25]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Still, the conveniences in SGU are no less. Just think about the added Kino feature in LOST: all of a sudden those devices can go by themself and search for exits. Eli has studdied this things, probably for months, yet he didn't know that?



    In Air when they first find the Kino's Eli had put the one he was playing with on auto mode, and it was roaming the ship by itself.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TuMulTusX

    TuMulTusX

    [26]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/09
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 225
    TOCM19 wrote:
    In Air when they first find the Kino's Eli had put the one he was playing with on auto mode, and it was roaming the ship by itself.

    Yet, it has nothing to do with the fact that the KINO moved on its own to the exit and then sits there duck until the others arrive. If it would have been on AUTO MODE, it should have returned to the remote device. Still, I assume that the AUTO MODE would require the ship computer to give the KINO instructions or a map of the area. This KINO did not have a map of the tunnels. Now, this leads to the assumption that the KINO could read the maps in the tunnel. How else would it have found the exit?

    Either way, Eli either should have known what the KINO is capable of - maybe not in detail but he played with them a lot - or he simply could have played back the recordings in order to trace back the way - as a computer gamer, it should have been easy for him. ERGO: No need to put anyone at risk!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [27]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    TuMulTusX wrote:
    TOCM19 wrote:
    In Air when they first find the Kino's Eli had put the one he was playing with on auto mode, and it was roaming the ship by itself.

    Yet, it has nothing to do with the fact that the KINO moved on its own to the exit and then sits there duck until the others arrive. If it would have been on AUTO MODE, it should have returned to the remote device. Still, I assume that the AUTO MODE would require the ship computer to give the KINO instructions or a map of the area. This KINO did not have a map of the tunnels. Now, this leads to the assumption that the KINO could read the maps in the tunnel. How else would it have found the exit?

    Either way, Eli either should have known what the KINO is capable of - maybe not in detail but he played with them a lot - or he simply could have played back the recordings in order to trace back the way - as a computer gamer, it should have been easy for him. ERGO: No need to put anyone at risk!


    Am I just being dumb? They never said that the Kino was deliberately looking for an exit. Eli glanced at the pad and noticed it had found an exit, that's all that happened as far as I could see.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TuMulTusX

    TuMulTusX

    [28]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/09
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 225

    TOCM19 wrote:
    Am I just being dumb? They never said that the Kino was deliberately looking for an exit. Eli glanced at the pad and noticed it had found an exit, that's all that happened as far as I could see.
    It found it, ergo it moved on its own since there was no exit around the KINObefore the 4 entered the tunnels.

    Edited on 05/02/2010 1:45pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [29]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    TuMulTusX wrote:

    TOCM19 wrote:
    Am I just being dumb? They never said that the Kino was deliberately looking for an exit. Eli glanced at the pad and noticed it had found an exit, that's all that happened as far as I could see.
    It found it, ergo it moved on its own since there was no exit around the KINObefore the 4 entered the tunnels.


    Yeah, Eli put it on auto mode. It drifted around randomly and found an exit, Eli either was keeping an eye on the pad, or glanced at it as the Kino found the exit.

    It doesn't have to have been logically searching for an exit.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TuMulTusX

    TuMulTusX

    [30]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/09
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 225
    TOCM19 wrote:
    TuMulTusX wrote:

    TOCM19 wrote:
    Am I just being dumb? They never said that the Kino was deliberately looking for an exit. Eli glanced at the pad and noticed it had found an exit, that's all that happened as far as I could see.
    It found it, ergo it moved on its own since there was no exit around the KINObefore the 4 entered the tunnels.


    Yeah, Eli put it on auto mode. It drifted around randomly and found an exit, Eli either was keeping an eye on the pad, or glanced at it as the Kino found the exit.

    It doesn't have to have been logically searching for an exit.
    But it logically s t o p p e d at the exit?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [31]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    Since Eli noticed it was at the exit, he may have just turned off auto mode.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Yaspaa

    Yaspaa

    [33]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 02/12/07
    • level: 79
    • rank: "Make It So"
    • posts: 1,874
    The Kino is a very technologically advanced device, with no doubt very complex programming, allowing it to do many intuitive things.
    I was surprised it didn't mark its position and start back searching for the receiver.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TuMulTusX

    TuMulTusX

    [34]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/09
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 225
    Yaspaa wrote:
    The Kino is a very technologically advanced device, with no doubt very complex programming, allowing it to do many intuitive things.
    I was surprised it didn't mark its position and start back searching for the receiver.
    But then we wouldn't have gotten 4 lost people.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [35]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Yaspaa wrote:
    The Kino is a very technologically advanced device, with no doubt very complex programming, allowing it to do many intuitive things.
    I was surprised it didn't mark its position and start back searching for the receiver.
    But then we wouldn't have gotten 4 lost people.


    What was your original point? Just that the Kino getting lost was a silly reason to go down in to the cave? Cos I think really Eli just wanted to go exploring and was using the lost Kino as a an excuse.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TuMulTusX

    TuMulTusX

    [36]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/09
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 225
    TOCM19 wrote:
    What was your original point? Just that the Kino getting lost was a silly reason to go down in to the cave? Cos I think really Eli just wanted to go exploring and was using the lost Kino as a an excuse.
    No, my original point waaaaay back was that SG-U is not less convenient than previous Stargates, just much slower ...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of someguy0830

    someguy0830

    [37]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 10,103
    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Same in SG-1: "We steal a Go'a'uld glider and make a nice airforce fight jet out of it" turns in to: "OMG, this thing is boogy-trapped, we can't control it and now we are going to die in space!". Or: The Tolen's alliance with the Go'a'uld turns out being their doomsday and devistation. Or Sam's father becoming a Tok'ra, making him not really trusted at earth but also not really trusted by the Tok'ra ... I guess in comparison, currently I would win since I have more episodes to choose from, so, that wouldn't be fair!
    The Tollan one doesn't count. The point of that episode was your standard "the game is afoot" plot where some conspiracy needs unraveling. Once the Goa'uld came in, we all knew that alliance was going down the toilet.

    As for Jacob, you're stretching. Jacob was trusted for a very long time. It took several seasons for the distrust to form on the Tok'ra side, and Earth always trusted him. That was in fact the issue, that Jacob/Selmac held more loyalty to Earth than to the Tok'ra. Regardless, this is not a convenience, but plot development. The real convenience is Carter's terminally ill father being introduced and a (somewhat) cure likewise introduced in the span of a two-parter.

    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Still, the conveniences in SGU are no less. Just think about the added Kino feature in LOST: all of a sudden those devices can go by themself and search for exits. Eli has studdied this things, probably for months, yet he didn't know that?
    As has been stated already, Kinos can and have been set to auto-roam. More to the point, which I believe has been missed thus far, Eli has actually programmed them to look for specific items before, namely an active console in "Darkness". Not convenient at all, but an established function.

    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Further, they go down into the tunnels to 'rescue' the KINO - all 4 of them!!! This had to be this way, so, that the plot of this episode could 'conveniently' progress in getting them lost. I mean, they probably lose KINOs all the time when they send them through as a MAUP to see if a planet is save. If the planet isn't save, they can't get back the KINO, yet, they all 4 have to go down and get this one, putting everyone at risk! BTW: The KINO stores everything it records, right? Eli only would have to rewind / play the footage in order to trace back the steps. Yet, wait! That would have been too convenient!
    You ever try maneuvering out of a maze in reverse, even knowing the way? It can be disorienting. Plus Eli was looking for an excuse to go down. This wasn't a forced situation. It's something Eli wanted to do.

    As for losing Kinos to hostile environments, they have spacesuits for that.

    TuMulTusX wrote:
    Let's get our people lost, place some cavemen maps on the walls and - once everything is really dramatic - the KINO finds the exit and waits there for them. Now, why would the KINO have done that on its own? Why wouldn't the KINO as well exit the tunnels and fly back if it is so artificially smart? Because we would not have had a reason to get our people lost in first place!
    It found the exit before they found the maps, and was explicitly of no help in getting there. The Kino finding the exit was, at best, an excuse to keep the Kino. Also, since Eli saw it find the exit, he could easily stop it.

    TuMulTusX wrote:
    And here once more: they all risk their lifes while hunting for the KINO in the tunnel. They leave once one of their people is barried behind some rocks, not knowing if he is still alive or not; leaving me with the impression that they value a tiny KINO over a human's life! And just rewatch how conveniently Greer made it out of the tunnels. Did you see the huge rocks? That he had no major injuries is quite strange!
    This is not at all uncommon. Greer was buried in a pocket, large enough to crawl around without crushing him. Cave-ins can do that. More to the point, they thought Greer dead for good reason: the ceiling collapsed and he didn't radio back when called. They also couldn't dig him out.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TuMulTusX

    TuMulTusX

    [38]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/09
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 225
    someguy0830 wrote:
    The Tollan one doesn't count...
    ???
    Sure, just keep saying "That doesn't count!" whenever it is convenient. I can do the same with SG-U.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of someguy0830

    someguy0830

    [39]May 2, 2010
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 10,103
    TuMulTusX wrote:
    someguy0830 wrote:
    The Tollan one doesn't count...
    ???
    Sure, just keep saying "That doesn't count!" whenever it is convenient. I can do the same with SG-U.
    I only said it once, and explained why. By your attempt to explain it, you act as if the Goa'uld alliance is transparent from the get-go. This is not so. It is portrayed as a hidden agenda, then as a bad decision. Ergo, it isn't convenient that they get betrayed, merely an expectation.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.