A Supernatural Community
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A few weeks ago, TV.com's Tim Surette included Supernatural on his list of "5 TV Shows That Need End Dates". His reasoning is solid, and his estimation of the seasons following the almost universally lauded Season 5 finale is more or less accurate. Season 6 suffered from Soulless Sam, whose semi-resurrection also somewhat trivialized the harrowing conclusion to Season 5. Season 7 wandered through the Leviathan fiasco. But Seasons 8 and 9 have started to coalesce a thematic idea that could, if handled carefully, give the series added longevity. The problem is the show has only periodically capitalized on it.

If Season 1-5 were an apocalyptic epic—a conspiracy of prophecy, Biblical and mythological archetypes, propelled by the zealous high-powered bureaucrats in both Heaven and Hell beholden to these predestined narratives, a conspiracy which was ultimately undone by familial love and free will—then what follows is the chaotic aftermath of a shattered sense of cosmic order in every realm.



Sam, Dean and their allies were successful. They saved the world. But the clarity of purpose, if not of action, that they previously held evaporated, and they haven't yet recovered it. Having been groomed their entire lives to play roles that no longer fit them, the Winchesters (and us along with them) have been aimlessly clinging to their earlier habits, hunting mostly and occasionally chasing white rabbits when the opportunities present themselves.


The Winchesters need a vision of the future.

In theory, though not much in its execution, the wars in Heaven and Hell resulting from the power vacuums left by the Season 5 non-apocalypse are the appropriate direction for the show. Heaven and Hell were given over to a series of opportunists—Crowley, Abaddon, Raphael, Metatron, Bartholomew, and even Castiel—both struggling to produce a vision for the future after the failure to end and/or restore the world. And Sam and Dean (with their occasional allies) have been patching up the fallout with band-aids. Having saved the world, they feel responsible for it, but they need to be imagining a world that can sustain itself without them.

They also need a vision for their personal futures. In the (always temporary) death of the other, each of the brothers has had a brief respite of normal life: Dean after Sam's sacrifice in the Season 5 finale and Sam after Dean's disappearance into Purgatory at the end of Season 7. While the momentum of events seems always to steal away that life, they need some prospect of contentment, whether or not they leave behind hunting entirely.



The most important aspect of this vision: Sam and Dean must resolve themselves to their place in the universe. This doesn’t demand that they be satisfied with the world as it is so much as recognize the necessary cosmic architecture. There can never be, for instance, a "good" ruler of Hell. Whatever the reason for Sam's reluctance to tolerate Crowley this season—and I suspect it currently has as much more to do with jealousy over Dean, though Sam would never admit that, than anything inherent about Crowley—he is a far more palatable King of Hell than Abaddon or any of the warmongering demons who would supplant her. Despite Sam and Dean’s displeasure with it, it seems both Heaven and Hell are necessary. If Metatron’s successful scheme to close Heaven resulted in the expulsion of the angels and a reservoir of human souls trapped in limbo, would the Winchesters’ aborted attempt to seal Hell have been any different? Instead of trapping the demons in Hell as they had hoped, would they simply have unleashed them all on Earth and dammed up the condemned souls as well?


Remember details that have been largely forgotten.

Supernatural has been meticulous about the causal sequencing of events. The story has momentum that carries through even if its logic sometimes wavers. However, outside Seasons 1-5, whose clear narrative trajectory made it more intricately integrated than those subsequent, Supernatural hasn’t often returned to distant events in any meaningful ways. And in not doing so, it loses much of its cohesion. Sam and Dean have a lot of open wounds, and one way to begin resolving their deepening ennui would be to return to them and allow them some semblance of redress.

1. Dean in Hell. One of Season 4’s greatest achievements was the gradual disclosure of Dean’s experience in Hell and how it fundamentally re-shaped how Dean thought about himself. He slowly transformed from torture victim, to torturer, to willing and enthusiastic torturer, even perhaps a promising acolyte of Crowley. My most persistent and, I believe, best idea for a new Supernatural character derives from this experience: a victim of Dean’s from Hell—his favorite perhaps—whom Dean accidentally rescued during his own escape by clinging to his work, dragging the racked soul back to Earth with him, as Jacob clinging to the heel of Esau, if we want to continue our Biblical parallels. Like Dean, who arrived with Castiel’s handprint seared into his shoulder, this soul would bear the scars of her (and I’d prefer the soul to be female) rescue. A long, jagged disembowelment, perhaps. Or a through-and-through from a scythe. It’s a character who could allow Dean to confront his actions in Hell from another, now equally human, perspective, from the point of view of the woman he both relished torturing and ultimately saved from damnation.



2. Adam in the cage with Lucifer and Michael. Sam may have been rescued—body and soul separately—from the prison with the two fearsome angels, but I cannot recall Adam, the Winchesters’ half-brother, getting any such resolution. And he has been for nearly four seasons entirely forgotten. While any rescue is likely to fail, and his soul is by now certainly in tatters, some attempt by Supernatural to give him some peace…even some mention that his half-brothers haven’t entirely forgotten him…would be welcome. It's a show about family, not just the loving but dysfunctional codependency of Sam and Dean.

3. Chuck and the Supernatural books. Although I’m a little unclear about the details of the mythology, I think it plausible to imagine Chuck and the other gospel prophets in a different category than the rest of the prophets, like Kevin Tran. So, though there is only supposed to be one prophet at a time, Chuck need not be dead. Even, perhaps, after his completion of the “Winchester Gospels”—plausibly at the end of Season 5, when we last heard from him—he could have been de-activated. A future story with Chuck and his books would provide the brothers an opportunity to see themselves more clearly, if metacritically, and from a meaningful distance.



4. Jesse the Anti-Christ. In a particularly hopeful episode in Season 5, "I Believe the Children Are Our Future," we meet young Jesse, a half-demon child whom the legions of Hell planned on raising as a weapon against Heaven. But, by force of free will and human hope, Jesse vanishes himself. Though it is implied he transported himself to an Australian beach, far away from the uniquely American apocalypse, an older Jesse would be a fearsome and beautiful person to meet.


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Aug 28, 2014
THIS LINE: "Though it is implied he transported himself to an Australian beach, far away from the uniquely American apocalypse."

Thank you for it.


~Love all non-American viewers.
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Aug 29, 2014
Yeah, although I am American, I just find it a little obnoxious when "global" events in television shows and movies, like THE END OF THE WORLD, somehow stop at the national border. Supernatural's a major offender (though it does sometimes make fun of itself for this), but to be honest, so are many others, like Doctor Who.
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Aug 29, 2014
I agree. Everyone does it and it does provide a lot of humour. Yes, Doctor Who is a major one . I'd be curious to see them handling an American companion.
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Aug 28, 2014
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Jul 11, 2014
I think they already jumped the shark. A long time ago. By trying to make the bad guys sympathetic and the good guys evil, the showrunners have created a totally dysfunctional and senseless universe in which moral decisions are essentially meaningless. Is Heaven any better than Hell, for example? Does it mean anything to do wrong and violate your beliefs and conscience? Is there any reason to prefer doing good to doing evil? Does anything the Winchesters do matter? The only reality in the Supernatural universe seems to be is that Hell sucks.

The bad guys have been idiotic and ill-conceived. Azazel was awesome, but then they turned him into weak sauce by making him a puppet of Lucifer and just made a mess of carefully-developed storylines by trying to recast or making nothing of what he was up to in infecting Sam and the other "special" kids. (Which ruins so much good build-up and makes what the Winchesters have been through more or less a cosmic joke.) Then Lucifer was a pathetic, whiny little idiot who supposedly doesn't lie (??!), and the writers never bothered to establish where he gets any power he has, what his real agenda is or how he'll achieve it, or how his powers work or what limitations he has. (A pattern the writers meticulously followed.) And worse. Seriously. The mother of all monsters? Alpha monsters? Leviathans? Metatron? If you're going to bring in an icon like Satan, then for heaven's sake leave him for the end and use him effectively! In which case you'd better end the show because otherwise you just end up with a revolving door of wanna-bees or a competition to build the baddest baddie to the point that they just become abstract nonsense divorced from anything people can really be expected to care or do anything about. Both of which tendencies we've seen in Season 6 and beyond.

And Castiel? Ugh. If you're going to make an angel a character, then let him be an angel. Which sort of implies some level of real and justifiable moral authority. (When he beat up Dean in Season 5 and it became clear that he's just a parasite with no consideration for his host or his host's life, I officially decided he was pond scum.) And if you're going to have demons, they need to be essentially evil and treacherous or calling them demons makes no sense.

Things got dicier and dicier in seasons 4 and 5, but from the end of Season 5 on I'd had it and have simply read to see if there were any developments worth having any hope for the show anymore. Neither of the Winchesters has any real point or objective or vision. Neither of them is really accomplishing anything much. Most importantly, neither of them are allowed to be independent or develop or learn from their mistakes. Canon and consistency with earlier seasons might as well not exist. Dean, in particularly, is horribly underutilized and, well, wasted. He's a co-lead and the only reason a lot of people have connected with the show and should be treated as such, but Kripke and his successors are Sam fanboys to the point that they've actually made me loathe Sam as a character. He can do no wrong. He's always abused and has it worst. Dean is always expected to pull Sam's fat out of the frying pan and be his nursemaid and cheerleader, but in a lot of ways it really isn't truly reciprocal. Anyway, you don't want to hear me rant any further about this. I'd love to rewrite the show. I'd have developed the demon storylines a lot more slowly and included more urban legends.
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Aug 01, 2014
I must give you credit for mentioning the urban legends. I did fall in love with supernatural in the beginning because beside the "yellow eyed demon" storyline you could kind of watch each episode and even miss one and still being able to enjoy it.. because each episode (at least in season 1-3) really had their own little stories.
They still try nowadays to squish one in their but it mostly feels half-hearted and forced. You are stuck with a chunk of big storyline that is not really taking you anywhere. I miss those urban legends and the times when you had this feeling that only some people where affected by supernatural creatures and not that half of the "people" "living" on earth aren't actually human at all.
I still watch supernatural for one reason... because when it is finally over (and I really hope that they pull the white rabbit out of their sleeves) I hope for one last time to be really surprised .. and say "I never knew that all this time it was Dean lying in a psychiatric center and imagining all this"... or something like that ;)
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Jul 13, 2014
While I agree in practice with some of your "rant," as you call it, but I don't think I agree in principle. For me, the moral uncertainty is essential. The authority of "Heaven" and "Hell" is fundamentally unreliable, both having far more in common than they do in difference. The bureaucratic chaos that erupted after the failed apocalypse is just an extreme symptom of the problem, the valuation of religious narrative over human compassion and a general underappreciation of human life. Although they often struggle with it, the Winchesters are more or less the human ambassadors in the supernatural world.
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Jul 14, 2014
And that's precisely it. When neither angels nor demons nor any other real "players" in the Supernatural universe are remotely heavenly--which would include actually being benevolent and caring for humans--what's the point? You're not actually improving anything for anyone, because even Heaven really isn't different from Hell. Real religion is inseparable from morality and unselfish love for people.
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May 30, 2014
What would I like to see in supernatural´s future??? A end to a show that story wise went off the rails after season 5 (the writers probably took a coffy break and never came back) and never really found its path again.
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Aug 30, 2014
Actually, the writers didn't take a coffee break. The shift in the feel of the show after season 5 was due to the death of Executive Producer and Director Kim Manners, also known for his work on The X Files. The show kind of flailed after the loss of Manners, and is just these past couple years regaining a bit of a footing, in my opinion. I do agree that the show should end, but given the startling finale to this past season, I think that they have some serious loose ends to tie up before that can be achieved without ruining what has been one of my favorite shows of all time.
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Aug 30, 2014
I was once watching it live, now I TiVo it and weeks can go by before I have nothing else to do....
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May 09, 2014
Honestly any of these plots would work for me. The only thing that makes me want SPN to end at some point is so that I can see Jensen or Jared as some other characters besides Dean and Sam.
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Apr 25, 2014
As I just wrote in another Supernatural article, I still believe Chuck is God and that he'll be back in the end.
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Apr 15, 2014
jessie would be a great guest character to bring back. his powers were insanely powerful. a teenaged version could think of much sicker stuff. think Q of the supernatural series, just a single thought and it happens. sure makes for a better episode or arc than the fillers that have been going on. As for the rest of the article, yeah these past seasons had potential but have botched things by bringing up too many things and then instead of maybe devoting the season to resolving at least 1 or 2 of the plots, they've resorted to fillers. With so much to work with, how do we end up with a handful of eps left and nothing has been resolved? There's the angels fighting for power, metatron, abbadon, and crowley's ulterior motives. almost 4 plotlines with a decent season start and all wasted. I enjoyed this show, but they way things have been botched, i think it is best to pull the plug after s10 (since i think it was renewed).
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Apr 15, 2014
i should also note that each of these post season5 seasons had their moments, and season 6 wasn't too bad, just ended lacklusterly. season 8 was sorta an improvement of s6. s7 wasn't that bad, but the leviathans as powerful as they were, were uninteresting and i too would just forget about it.
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Apr 14, 2014
Can someone remind me who Jesse is/was ?
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Apr 14, 2014
As I mentioned in the post, Jesse was featured in only one episode (S5ep6), "I Believe the Children Are Our Future". He was the immaculately conceived son of a woman impregnated by the demon possessing her. When she finally gave birth, she gave the child up for adoption. As he aged, he developed the ability to alter reality around him. (It was the episode in which the silly urban legends start coming true...a.k.a., the "Dean's hairy palm" episode.) He is eventually confronted by Castiel who wants to kill him before he becomes a powerful warrior for the other side, a demon trying to recruit him for the apocalypse, and the Winchesters (primarily Sam) who want to give him the opportunity to make the right choice.
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Apr 14, 2014
I don’t have a story line in mind, but however the story ends I hope neither brother dies again. I know this genre is horror, but after all we’ve been through with these characters I will be really sad if one of them dies.
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Apr 15, 2014
Well said, kateharper28. The thought of either of them dying and the other having to go on alone is just too sad for words. And both of them dying would be even more tragic. I hope the writers agree with you :)
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Apr 13, 2014
I've read so much on here that the show should have ended at Season 5. I do agree with this partly; Season 5, from start to finish, just felt like it was wrapping everything up. Pretty much every single character from the first 5 seasons returned, plot points were tied up, and the ending was perfect.

That being said, I didn't hate the idea of a season 6; in fact, I thought there was more room to tell a story. I actually enjoy season 6. The first half especially I think is very well done; it sets up things nicely, introduces several characters with questionable agendas (Crowley, Samuel, Sam himself) and really hooks me in. It's in the latter half of season 6 that it suffers a tad, and the less said about season 7 the better.

8 repaired the damage 7 did, and did it beautifully. That being said, I'm struggling with 9, and I'm not sure what it is. It's taken me 4 weeks to catch up, and that has never happened before. And, if I'm brutally honest... what the hell can a spin-off bring to this universe we haven't already seen. Supernatural has an amazing mythology, probably the best I've ever seen on a show, but it's been dug into so much I just do not know where else they can take it. It's in it's NINTH season, and not only are they showing no sign of stopping, they're making another show in the same Universe. Don't get me wrong; I'll be watching, but it does voice a concern.

That being said, what annoys me, though, is how negative fans are! No, seasons 6-9 were not awful. Supernatural is still one of the best and consistently written shows on the box. It has great writing, great actors and great characters. Yes, it's never quite been as good as Season 5, a peak that only Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones has only managed to beat for me (very closely, I might add, and those shows are incredible), but there has been plenty to love. Supernatural is as old as it is because of how good it is, and while it may seem tired, it deserves a bit more from it's fan base than, "it's shit now, but I still watch it." No, it's not shit.

I don't know if I want the show to end next year. But I do want a rocking blast of a final season to wrap everything up. Something season 5 did beautifully of course, but the story didn't end there. What I don't want? It to be axed before the story is finished. THAT would be a travesty. I would never forgive the CW this, especially when the writers had an ending for them that they didn't accept, and then took a proper ending from their audience.
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Jun 14, 2014
I thought Season 5 was where it should have finished. I didn't like Season 6. It felt wrong. Season 7 I stopped watching just under midway. I heard 8 and 9 were good so I recently restarted where I had left off and I think that is what I needed - A break from the show. I finished 7 and whilst it wasn't the best series I managed to enjoy it more than when I had tried to watch as it aired. I think 8 and 9 is where it has found its feet again. S10 I would like to see more about the men of letters. I think they can introduce more lore this way. I am also interested in the direction Crowley becoming a regular will take especially with how he is changing.

Agree that if they end it they should give it a proper ending like they did in Season 5 but to be honest, I am enjoying the show again after a shaky S6 and 7. Maybe you just need to take a break from it like me!
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Apr 14, 2014
I didn't mean to suggest that I wanted the show to end after Season 5, and I think a lot of fans would agree. Slightly less than stellar Supernatural is better than no Supernatural at all. For all its valleys, it's still been entertaining and fun; it's just less amazing than Seasons 1-5. I don't find most Supernatural fans negative. I find them discerning. After all, good fans should be.
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Apr 14, 2014
I feel like I’m in the minority on this, but I’m also glad the series didn’t end with season 5. I think the story has gotten deeper and more interesting since then. We learned more about Crowley, Bobby and Castiel (to name a few); we would never have met Kevin or Charlie, and all the mythology about souls, purgatory and the MOL would never have made it to the screen. I think a lot has been accomplished during the past 4 seasons and the show has continued to be very good and fun to watch.
I still really love the show and will continue to watch enthusiastically, even the end of season 9, which has not been my favorite. I will be sorry to see the series end after season 10, but will continue to watch happily until the final closing credits.
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Apr 13, 2014
personally, i would like everything to eventually be shown as connecting back to the brothers story in a way that will screw with our minds even more, showing that crowley has been manipulating this since the dawn of time. like meg said 'when are you gonna get it, crowley is always the problem'. i think we saw some of that in 'first born'. and to what degree has cas been in on it, he has worked with crowley before against the boys and whos to say he hasnt had his mind wiped by naomi a few times and just cant remember it crowley is playing the long con. and him and naomi bumped pelvises. plus, i think cas forced destinys hand in 'the end' by making sure yellow eyes came after sam, before that point, yellow eyes didnt know sam from adam (pun intended). id also like a surprise involving bobby, just how did he know the samulet was special? does he know more than we realise? how many times has bobby died and cant recall it just as sam and dean couldnt on their journey to talk with joshua in the garden? also like to see chuck has been ressurected by god in anticipation of kevins death, and that god has been flying under the radar this whole time in an effort to avoid metatron.
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Apr 12, 2014
Can anyone tell me what happened with the rest of the leviathans with Dick's dead? Or did they just forgot about them like Supernatural does a lot.
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Apr 12, 2014
Crowley implied that his demons killed a lot of them, and since they posed a threat to demons he may have killed them all. At the end of Survival of the Fittest you can hear screaming as leviathans are being killed by demons, and Crowley says this (excerpt from the transcript):

SAM
What the hell?
KEVIN
More chompers any second, Sam.

CROWLEY
Not to worry. I have a small army of demons outside. Cut off the head, and the body will flounder, after all. Think if you'd had just one king since before the first sunrise. You'd be in a kerfuffle, too.

SAM
Which is exactly what you wanted.

CROWLEY
So did you. Without a master plan, the Levis are just another monster. Hard to stomp, sure...
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Apr 13, 2014
Nah. That was just stalling so that the Winchesters could get to Dick. Demons were as powerless against Leviathans as Angels were. I'm wondering what happened to the rest, did they get pulled into purgatory with Dick's dead, like Dean and Castiel were?
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Apr 14, 2014
Once you know about borax and beheading, leviathans become as easy to kill as any other monster. If lowly humans (like Sam and Dean) can kill them, there’s no reason Crowley’s demons couldn’t do just as well. As far as where they ended up, once they get killed on Earth it makes perfect sense that they would end up in purgatory just like Dick Roman did. God built purgatory for them, anyway, so it makes sense for that destination to be their “monster heaven”.
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Jun 04, 2014
Neither borax or beheading kills them. It just slows them.
So yet again, what did the demons behead all the Leviathans and hid their heads all over the world?
The only Leviathans that died in the show with the excaption of Dick were the ones that got eaten by other Leviathans.
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Apr 09, 2014
Can you please remind me what was the connection between season 1 and season 5? I don't see seasons 1-5 as one story. So I don't see a change in the show format since season 6.
I think that season 5 was one of the best, and season 6 was one of the worst - and that's what confuses people. But regarding to purpose, it was always changing after 1-2 seasons, and filled with fillers episodes in-between.
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Apr 10, 2014
Seasons 1-5 were organized around the apocalypse: preparing the vessels for Lucifer and Michael, igniting the events to free Lucifer, and ultimately maneuvering the pieces to end the world. Most of this design—for us and the Winchesters—is only seen in retrospect. For instance, the first two seasons originally seemed like a revenge tale against the yellow-eyed demon, but his plan to groom possible vessels for Lucifer is revealed in later seasons, as well as the need for John and eventually Dean to be in Hell.

You're right about the format, which doesn't change much, if any. The manner of storytelling is much the same as it was, including liberal doses of "filler" episodes, which are often some of the best, but the narrative cohesion of later seasons isn't up to par. There's none of the retrospective understanding and re-examination that makes the first five seasons so much fun to revisit.
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Apr 09, 2014
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Apr 08, 2014
Basically we need new writers with SPN knowledge, talent and vision. I don't think the writers of SPN at this time or maybe ever have what it takes to pull the shows storylines together. I really have lost hope with these writers. Too bad. If Supernatural is written properly, SPN, could have been one of the best shows with longevity and re runs. The only thing SPN has going for them are the actors. This is why, I believe the show has lasted so long. It would be great if I can be proven wrong this coming year.
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Apr 06, 2014
The purpose of the show is: Kick butt and take names!
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Apr 10, 2014
Oh, I thought it was "Kill some evil sons of bitches and raise a little Hell."
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Apr 06, 2014
I don't think coming up with a seasonal plot is the problem...at least not any more. The Leviathans showed that having a proper Big Bad is necessary for this show, but having one doesn't make or break it.

Essentially, this show is about Sam and Dean. And while a little better than other post season 5 years, their relationship, despite everything they've been through, hasn't matured or progressed. Much of what we see now from them, we've seen 3...4...5 times already. And because their various personality conflicts have been hammered home so deeply, one of them having an epiphany and drastically altering how he relates to the other just doesn't seem possible for two men as stubborn and as set in their ways as Sam and Dean Winchester.

Complimentary characters is also an issue since the best (on this show or any other) grow and evolve organically. Cas is fine, and I think Crowley is one of the best on any show right now, there's only so much they can do. Bobby, Kevin, Ruby and Meg are all dead. And bringing characters back to life is something this show really needs to stop.

While I'm sure the writers could come up with a pretty cool ultimate villain/goal for another couple of seasons, the substance that drives the show has pretty much run it's course.
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Apr 06, 2014
I agree entirely with most of your observations but not so much with several of your conclusions. I'm not convinced that a "Big Bad" in the traditional sense is actually all that necessary for this show. The mythology and world-building is elaborate and nuanced enough for the show to back off the villains and give ground to the central characters. After all, as you point out, the show is about Sam and Dean.

I also agree that for several seasons Sam and Dean hit the same relationship notes again and again, but I think that Dean's decision to trick Sam into being possessed by an angel changed them in a real way. I'm interested to see how this plays out, because I don't think there's any going back from it.
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Apr 06, 2014
For me, the pursuit of a Big Bad is just a vehicle by which the Sam & Dean story travels. Going into it's 10th season, I think trying to build a nuanced mythology, that doesn't contradict what's already been established, would be awfully tough. We've seen them try that and it didn't work out exceptionally well. A solid Big Bad I think is just an easier means by which to progress the Winchester story.

This most recent conflict, I will admit is better than the past few, but at this point, I've got very little faith in the, "And this time, I mean it" angle. Until they announce the end of the series, Sam and Dean will always reconcile and the only way I see their relationship advancing is if they're separated and NOT hunting...which is sort of a non starter for an ongoing series.
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Apr 06, 2014
No to Lucifer and Michael. I get that a lot of fans like Lucifer as a character but he was a one trick poney. If either (and especially if both) Lucifer or Michael were to get out we would be right back in the same storyline that we had before with them wanting to fight and end the world. Been there done that, nothing new there.

I would like to see Adam come back as a flesh and blood human who wants to kill Sam and Dean for what happened. I want him so messed up by what happened to him in the cage that he's a homicidal maniac and can't be 'talked down' it's either kill or be killed and then there's the mystery of HOW he got out in the first place.

The only reason to bring Chuck back would to be to address the God question and I think things are just fine where they are on that front.

I think the reason they introduced so many plot points was so they would have a lot to work with. Personally, I would have gone with one and had that one lead into the next but it's still a valid way to go.
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Apr 06, 2014
As good as your points are I still think the show needs to declare an end date and work towards it. This current season (to me at least) is suffering from the writers throwing in several main arcs in the hopes that one will stick. This in turn is leaving me personally feeling unfulfilled on any one story.
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Apr 06, 2014
I would watch this show even if Sam and Dean only would sit and eat burgers and drink beer all day long. And of course making fun of Cass :))
But thats just me I guess :))
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Apr 06, 2014
I would watch this show even if Sam and Dean only would sit and eat burgers and drink beer all day long...But thats just me I guess :))

Nope, not just you -- I would, too :)
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Apr 06, 2014
Ok... a few things:

1. Dean's stint in Purgatory seemed to have overridden everything he turned into after his stint in Hell. I don't think we should have any of Dean's victims appear on Earth. We were given an opportunity for this to happen but that ship has sailed. Dean's adventures in Purgatory, however, still has some wiggle room, since Dean didn't burn Benny's bones after he beheaded him and could find a way to resurrect him like he did the first time. Also, Eve could very well come back, only in a different form. The dragons are still alive and if killing her essentially put her back to start, all the dragons need to do is sacrifice another virgin to revive her. It'd be a lot simpler than, say, opening the cage and re-releasing Lucifer and Michael.

2. Adam does need to come back, but NOT by releasing Luci and Mike from the cage. Their characters were PERFECT and bringing them back physically would only hurt their characters, almost the exact opposite of Eve. The writers were able to find a way to bring Lucifer's character back in the form of a hallucination, but Luci's physical body was pretty much destroyed during his transfer into Sam so there'd be no way we could use the talented Mark Pallegrino again, and let's face it... he IS Lucifer. He can't be like Alistaire, who was able to have two actors portray him with little difference in tone. He'd be like Meg, who's second form was more flirty and jokey than her creepy serious first form.

3. Chuck had his sendoff in Season 5 and Crowley had stated that he owns all the Supernatural books which ended with Dean going to Hell. I think he's gone for good.

4. Teen Jesse would make for a good Monster of the Week, but he doesn't have the personality to be a Big Bad. I can't see a season revolving around him if we don't have any prep time for him. It'd be like the Leviathan arc... they were indestructible and full of potential but were wasted characters, and with Dick Roman's death they were NEVER seen or heard from again.
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Apr 06, 2014
I agree with everything you said, vampman87. It would be especially interesting to see what happened to Adam. He might actually be doing ok, though. It sucks that he's stuck in the cage, but Lucifer and Michael technically have no reason to be angry with him, because he did everything the angels asked him to do. He was duped just as much as they were, so if they're not angry with him and he's not being tortured like Sam was, he might be perfectly fine (albeit locked up for eternity).

However, if he is being tortured, I'm sure he's probably a demon by now or some other destroyed-soul type of supernatural thing that Dean and Sam would feel compelled to kill. That would be an interesting but sad end to the Adam story line.
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Apr 06, 2014
I would love to see a apprearance from god that would be fantastic, he needs to hear face to face what a mess his children have done in his absence. I agree we need some reminance of past events and deans time in hell would do the trick, especially considering his current arc with the mark of cane, and a female would be better than a male victim. I had forgotten about Jesse, his return as a much stronger and older character would be cool.
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Apr 06, 2014
I've always been wary of actually including God in the series. I could, I suppose, be well done, but it's a very, very tricky proposition. As another commenter mentioned, however, I would like to see the return of Joshua, especially now that he's presumably banished to Earth with the rest of the angels.

I also just think Supernatural needs some strong lady characters who aren't necessarily love interests for anyone really, but especially the brothers.
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May 25, 2014
We need the ultimate lady: the Goddess, who is Mother Earth, the equal, opposite of God. Like God, she probably got sick of humans destroying her nice planet and is just hanging out in a forst somewhere
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May 25, 2014
We got hints of that girl power with Eve, we need someone like her a powerful and strong leading lady that can hold her own, it would be nice if they could explore deeper into this powerful woman who is doing not so good things but it for a good reason and not everything is black and white in her motives
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Apr 06, 2014
We've got Charlie the Hacker and Woman of Letters. Dean seems to love her like a little sister and she's a lesbian so the fangirls (who are mostly to blame for all the female characters dying) can calm down cause there'd be no way of her and Dean hooking up. Also there's Sheriff Mills, Bobby's love interest. She's probably the only woman character who faced Crowley and lived.

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Apr 06, 2014
Since Helen and joe there hasn't been a strong female in the show, I love abadon she is bad ass but we someone who can challange the boys as an friend and hunter rather than someone to destroy. I've been wondering about Joshua also but he might not have been caught up in the fall as he is the keeper of the garden. Just a theory.
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Apr 06, 2014
I agree that Adam and the anti-Christ are loose ends that need tying up. But in the Season 5 finale it was established that Chuck was in fact God and a surrogate for Eric Kripke, so Chuck can't come back unless Kripke returns to the show in real life.
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Apr 05, 2014
I would love to see God make an appearance and Dean F-bombing him for all the crap he and his brother went through.That simple and I'll be a happy catholic!
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Apr 05, 2014
That brings up a really good point. What ever happened to Joshua? If all the angels got kicked out of heaven, then so did Joshua. If he still talks to God (and God is still on Earth), it would be nice to hear from him again and maybe see if God will be willing to intervene this time -- or maybe Joshua can convince God to intervene? Probably won’t happen, but I think it would be interesting.
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Apr 05, 2014
I would like to see the beginning on season with a glimpse of two possible futures then it goes back to present day. then at the midseason break we get to see the most likely future based on what has happened so far then the finale would reveal the future that is going to be. that way it would give the creative team a finishing point which many shows dont have and end up losing their way, like seasons 6 and 7.
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Apr 05, 2014
we need hot chicks...
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May 25, 2014
That don't die
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May 31, 2014
indeed xD
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Apr 05, 2014
Great discussion, Harpier. The idea of Jessie coming as the Big Bad times out perfectly as he would be an unstoppable combination of hormones and celestial power. We need that Big Bad (as Lucifer was). Even now, in the last episode, they are trying to build sympathy for Abaddon's vessel and I guarantee they will now try to save her instead of kill her. I really hope (since Revolution is nearly guaranteed to be canceled) that Kripke comes back for season 10, cleans up the mess, and gives us a final season to remember.
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Apr 06, 2014
I love the idea of Jesse coming back, but I'm not sure he should be a Big Bad. It could work, don't get me wrong, but I'm not married to the idea that he has to be. It was one of the sweetest surprises of the stellar Season 5 that he chose the right course despite the pressures on him. I almost imagine him as an ally.

I was intrigued by what they did with Josie in the latest episode, and considering that I picked up on some flirtation with Henry Winchester in "As Times Goes By" in Season 8, I felt it was earned. It certainly creates sympathy for the vessel, but considering the physical damage she's sustained, there's no saving her. I also think "Mother's Little Helper" was more about the destiny of the Winchesters...how close Henry came to death...than about redeeming Josie.
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Apr 05, 2014
I don’t think we need to see Dean confronted by a soul he tortured in hell. He seems to have already walked past that, so I don’t see a reason to bring it up again just to torture him with it. There can’t be any resolution to that, so the confrontation would be pointless.
What happened to Dean in hell was all orchestrated to force him to break the first seal, and since it’s already his nature to feel guilty about EVERYTHING, whether it's his fault or not, I don’t see how bringing up this topic develops the character, helps the character or moves the show forward in any constructive way. If anything, the soul he tortured might already be so twisted (possibly already turned into a demon) that he’d be forced to exorcise or kill the person again – more torture for Dean and no positive outcome from the experience. Sorry, but I just don’t see the value.
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Apr 06, 2014
I know that it seems like Dean's moved past all this, but I really, really don't think he has. It's not just Hell; it's Hell in a long line of crap and moral compromise that continues to weigh on him and contribute significantly to his drinking problem and deepening depression. Whether this aspect ever gets addressed again, something has to give.

I actually think that meeting up and cooperating with a character like I propose would give him a chance to be forgiven, which is how I'd want that story to unfold. I'd also like them to work alongside one another in whatever capacity before he realizes who the soul is. Like Anna, it's about someone else knowing what he did and who he is—an aspect of Dean that's coming to the fore again as the Mark of Cain takes stronger hold—and still forgiving him and supporting him.
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Apr 06, 2014
I know that it seems like Dean's moved past all this, but I really, really don't think he has. It's not just Hell; it's Hell in a long line of crap and moral compromise that continues to weigh on him and contribute significantly to his drinking problem and deepening depression. Whether this aspect ever gets addressed again, something has to give.

I hear you – Dean is depressed and something has to give, but I don’t think hell is part of that anymore. If Dean was still traumatized by being forced to torture souls in hell, then you would think he’d never do it again, right? He should refuse or at least hesitate to ever pick up a knife (or whatever) again for the purpose of torture, but that hasn’t been the case. When Crowley took Lisa and Ben, Dean tortured several demons to help find them; and when Castiel was missing in season 9, they tortured Maurice the reaper for information. It seems to me that Dean has come to terms with that part of his life.
You are absolutely right that Dean came back from hell incredibly broken and traumatized, but he came back from purgatory stronger, more focused and more of a warrior than ever before. It seems like he and Castiel both did penance and redeemed themselves somewhat in purgatory and that helped them both deal with previous guilt. I agree that “a long line of other crap” and perceived episodes of moral compromise still weigh on Dean, but I’d argue there are plenty of OTHER things behind that – abandoning and then killing Benny, losing Joe and Ellen, lying to Sam, Kevin’s death, etc. I haven’t seen any evidence that hell is part of that, or that it needs to be part of the story again. Even his current drinking and depression have a lot more to do with Sam than anything that happened to him in hell. He doesn’t even have flashbacks anymore. I just don’t see any evidence that hell is still part of his problem.
I’m sure lots of people will disagree, but I think Dean is as over hell as he’s going to get and that story line doesn’t need to be revisited.
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Apr 05, 2014
I agree that Sam and Dean need a vision of a universe that can survive without them – I think that right now by trying to help resolve the Abaddon/Crowley crisis and the heaven/angel crisis they’re trying to “balance the board” again so heaven, hell, and everything in between (i.e. all of us) will be ok again – or at least no more messed up than it was before. That’s all very important, but Sam and Dean also need a vision of their own future once balance has been restored. That vision keeps changing – first Sam wanted out, but now he seems not to. When Dean left Lisa and Ben, it seems that he decided he’d never have a normal life, but he hasn’t revisited that so who knows if he still feels that way.
Other hunters (Samuel Campbell, etc.) have found a way to marry, have children and still hunt so I don’t think the boys have to be loners all their lives. It feels like these two characters have been “pulled along” by all these apocalyptic events for the past 4 seasons – holding themselves together with duct tape while trying to stop the universe from falling apart through one crisis after another. It would be nice to bring the series to a close by focusing again on them and their lives after all the apocalyptic chaos is over. It would be nice to see them finally embrace life as hunters instead of seeming to be unhappy with who they are. The MOL is a step in that direction, and I’d like them to stay on that road and build lives that spin that into something that works for them – some sort of librarian/hunter hybrid or whatever. There’s been far too much tragedy, loss and self-sacrifice in their lives so I’d like to see a happy ending for both of these characters.
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Apr 06, 2014
This second option, a way to come to terms with life as a hunter, is a promising and underused option in Supernatural. I don't know that I'd hold Samuel Campbell up as a role model, but I do think they could find a way to be happier than they are now. They almost have to.
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Apr 05, 2014
I would like them to address the fact that there are probably not a lot of hunters left. In previous seasons they did bump into each other from time to time had shared resources and had a bar to go to. It feels like a lot of that is gone the're some Band-aids in place like Garth filling in for Bob but they are reduced to field their second team as the elites are all down. except Sam and Dean. Sam and Dean training a new generation of hunters would also change dynamics a bit. I had hoped that Victor Rogers kids would be taken in by the Winchesters, but no.
p.s. dwindling number of hunters is pure speculation.
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May 25, 2014
Hunters TNG is a better spin off idea than Bloodlines. Plus we can develop a new generation of Men Of Letters now that they have the bunker as support
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