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Supernatural S09E16: "Blade Runners"


This was such a weird episode—and a kind of boring one, too, but mostly weird with a totally squandered Men of Letters story, Sam being the actual freaking dumbest hunter ever, aaaand Snooki. I'm actually past the hating-on-Jersey-Shore-out-of-principle phase, so I'll say this: No, she couldn't act, but she was only in the episode for like, 30 seconds tops. It was a cute, if overdone, joke, but it's over now and we survived and as far as reasons why "Blade Runners" was kind of awful are concerned, Snooki's appearance is low on my list. 

So let's talk about the more valid reasons for "Blade Runners" being a general disappointment except for the actual First Blade stuff (me gusta). The episode started out promising enough. Crowley's post-trials blood addiction caught up to him, and after the trail of the First Blade got too muddled for him to bother with, he shacked up with a demon lackey and basically spent the next few weeks getting high and getting laid. Unfortunately, Lola was working for Abbadon, totes told her ginger queen about the First Blade, and OMG if Dean was eager to behead her before, the fact that she keyed Baby is so not helping her case. 


It was pretty much all downhill from Lola's betrayal. Crowley's douchey antics went from amusing to annoying surprisingly quick, and when disgraced Man of Letters Cuthbert (yeah, I'd start going by Magnus, too) decided to add Dean to his magical menagerie of supernatural pets, it was practically a Three (two?) Stooges film watching those two bumble their way into a rescue. Crowley is the king of hell, for cryin' out loud! He's conniving and brilliant and capable. Even when he was borderline human again in Season Gr8's finale, he was still smart, he was just emotional, even hopped up on people blood. Speaking of which, Supernatural, really needs some new substances for people to get buzzed on. Maybe Sam's demon blood thing was slightly easier to stomach because he was typically ripping out throats and being very savage and monstrous about it—which was that entire storyline's point—but Crowley's methodical shooting-up method just skeeves me out. However, I'm now curious as to whether all types of blood on Supernatural are mind-altering in some way, and if so, why isn't there some secret underground market for that? The things this show makes me think.


Sam, meanwhile... also super smart. Remember that time he went to Stanford? It's only been a huge part of his character history since, IDK, the beginning of the series. Hey, and remember that time Sam was raised as a hunter and probably freaking knows better than to openly mention, "Hey Dean, it's time to kill Crowley" when Crowley is standing right there?

At least the dang devil's trap in the trunk held. At least that much of the show's own canon was respected. I mean, we're not talking about minuscule details from six seasons ago; we're talking about things that have been constants throughout the series' entire run (Sam and Dean Winchester are smart, dammit!) and things that happened half-a-season ago. 


But enough about what was sucky. Here's some good news: The First Blade turns Dean into a bloodthirsty killa and it's going to be awesome when he inevitably loses control and you know he's going to get at least one episode to himself to go all Deano the Homicidal Maniac before the guilt-trip sinks in and the brothers finally reconcile for real-real after Dean realizes that hey, not being in control of your own body kind of sucks. Forcing possession on somebody—even to save their life (which they might not want saved, BTW)—is kind of a crappy thing to do. 

And in the meantime, BLOODLUST DEAN YESSSS. I'm still holding out for Abbadon-possessed-Dean, which I'd love to see at some point this season even though that possibility seems to be diminishing, but I'll totally take Mark of Cain Dean. I'm just giddy at the idea of Jensen Ackles getting to play an alternate version of Dean. I've said it before, and a dozen other people across the interwebs have pointed it out, but Jared Padalecki has (flawlessly) played so many different versions of Sam that even the most encyclopedic of Supernatural fans would probably be at least momentarily challenged, to name them all. It's Ackles' turn to play a Dean with a twist, and even though "Blade Runners" was mostly a giant disappointment, it gets brownie points for giving us a taste of Dean Winchester on the First Blade juice. 



CASE NOTES

– Dumb Winchester Sighting: like half the freaking episode.

– Crowley has Dean programmed in his cell phone as "Not Moose." Love it. 

– However, what was with all the googly eyed nostalgia and weird crushing on Sam from Crowley this week (you know, more than his usual Sam obsession)? Was that because it was originally Sam's blood he was strung out on? 

– I loved the way Magnus so effortlessly fought off Dean and Sam with his spells. I'd really like to see more spellwork incorporated into their hunting. It makes sense and it seems like the sort of thing that Sam, in particular, would get into. 

– I saw a comic floating around the internet that pointed out how Crowley was looking for the First Blade in the ocean, and oceans are full of salt water, and demons + salt tend to not end well... and now I can't stop trying to rationalize how that worked out. Any thoughts? 


What'd you think of "First Blade"?


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 5/18/2016

Season 11 : Episode 22

Next Episode

TONIGHT AT 9PM

Season 11 : Episode 23

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This felt like a very, very dumbed down version of the episode "The Most Toys" from Star Trek in which Data is taken by a collector of rare and valuable objects:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Most_Toys_(episode)

I was originally excited over Cuthbert Sinclair and how he could add depth to the story, but as usual, as always, he was killed off and the whole thing wrapped up in one episode. Sam and Dean didn't even bother searching the house for all of the rare supernatural artifacts in his possession? What about the creatures in his "zoo"? This show is starting to get to be like an 80s sitcom: back then most shows had freelance writers so it was common for everything to "reset" by the end of the episode (the Simpsons even did a good gag based on this observation).

The show also followed the pattern I laid out before for how to generate a Mad Libs or paint-by-numbers season of Supernatural: there's one MacGuffin they need to find and then they need to find the second MacGuffin (the villain), interspersed with filler episodes while they wait for Bobby/Kevin/Frank/whomever to give them a clue to the location. Exactly as I called it, Crowley took the First Blade away and charged them with finding Abaddon. We'll no doubt have filler eps until Castiel or whomever finds her, usually in time to give us three final episodes actually concerned with the big plot.

I miss the Crowley we had through the end of Season 5, who was actually a nicer guy. They did a major transformation when Kripke left, starting with Crowley not giving Bobby back his soul. Nice Crowley from season 5 was the reason Bobby got his legs back. Actually come to think of it, Kripke-era Crowley kissed a lot of guys, including Bobby (and took a picture!) but post Kripke Crowley had a son and was sleeping with a woman this episode.
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I really wish they hadn't killed off Magnus. I think that is what is stopping this show from reaching the heights of its earlier seasons. They kill every villain they come across besides the Big Bads each season, which while okay for most of the ghosts and ghouls and random nut-jobs like in ThinMan, is a shame when they come across someone like Magnus. The show suffers from a lack of recurring supporting characters, as such people popping up from time to time would allow for some stories and cases to emerge without the usual cliche of finding them online and without seeming random case-of-the-week-ish.

It's even more of a shame that they don't have recurring foes outside of random angels and demons and the Big Bads. In Magnus, they could have had both, a guy whom could have proven an ally and a foil from time to time. Especially given his knowledge of magic. It could have made him a go-to guy for advice and help if they ever needed something magical. But also quite the potentially troublesome foe if they ever found themselves competing again for another supernatural artifact.

Besides, I found him quite entertaining. Total waste just beheading him in my eyes.
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Good story i found here.
Thank you
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Well, Tuesday we get another plateful of angst. Dean refuses to go with Sam on a case and crawls into a bottle of booze instead.
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Someone doesn't know what their talking about. Jensen was amazing as always and this episode was far from boring, every minute kept me entertained the entire time.
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A great episode I can't wait to explore more into the mark of Cain and it's effect on dean. Rrrrrrrrr Sam he is just annoying me at the moment. The "not moose" contact was brilliant.
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"Not moose" cracked me up too. Nice touch.
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my only problem with all this is even though I love dean and jensen ackles. I dont think ackles is a very good actor and I don't think he will properly display the struggle that dean will go through. I totally didn't feel any acting skills from either sam or dean this episode.
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You don't even have to have watched anything other than Supernatural to realize what a contradictory statement that is.
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Read my reply below that I just posted below. I might have replied to the wrong comment .
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my only problem with all this is even though I love dean and jensen ackles. I dont think ackles is a very good actor and I don't think he will properly display the struggle that dean will go through...

I have to respectfully disagree. I think Jensen is a great actor and capable of displaying a full range of emotions with apparent ease and agility. If you read recent interviews, there's discussion about how the Mark of Cain is affecting Dean psychologically -- blunting his emotional responses and altering his personality. If Jensen's face is emotionless and Dean's affect seems "flat" recently, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be that way.
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Have you seen his on live stage and read the reviews ? Or his past TV /or screen Movies ( besides. horror movies ) he did in the past ? Or a movie which he and his father produce an starred in ? Read the reviews and then
maybe, you might have a bit more insight. That's why I feel that Jensen should move on from SPN. He is underrated, respectively saying. But its his choice to stay I guess.

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If you have seen Ackles other work you would probably not be saying that Jensen can't act. He is an under rated actor but he put himself in that position.
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I agree! Jensen is incredibly underrated. In my opinion, he's been consistently better than Jared since season one, but I'm sure there are people who would disagree...
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I expect to be alone in this - but I find myself completely, frustratingly OVER Crowley's continued presence in this series. He popped up in ONE episode of S5, and he wasn't going to be anyone, but I'm assuming someone thought "we haven't had a Big Bad Demon to square off against in awhile, let's bring him back." So they brought him back. And then again. And every time, it was to cause just a little more chaos and pain for the Boys Winchester, and after "Let it Bleed" there should be NO EARTHLY REASON he is alive. They were ready and willing to slice and dice Cas, the third wheel of their bromance, yet another douchey, world-shattering season-arc starring Crowley was forgotten. He's still here because Mark Sheppard is awesome. I get that he's awesome. There have been several awesome guest stars, but I wouldn't expect the writing staff to pad the weekly character arsenal just to keep them around. For the sake of his simple presence in the show, his initial sociopathic badassedness has been reduced to nearly unwatchable swill. Just think of the holes left and facts changed by his constant reoccurrence. We know demons were once human, and in "Weekend at Bobby's" casting went out of their way to find a "son" who looked like MS. But Crowley previously stated he was wearing the body of a successful publisher (I think) out of New York. *raises a hand* please, no one say "well, obviously he was lying.". I've had that sort of response before, and he wasn't. We get a different Crowley every year based on what the writers need to keep the guys fighting with each other. I was embarrassed for and of the character, watching this episode. I was SO hoping this season would follow the angels on Earth storyline the S8 finale and S9 premiere so promisingly promised. To me, the show has felt listless since mid-S7. I think keeping Crowley around offers a glimpse back at the glory days - story quality speaking - but he isn't being used in a way in which I can justify his presence any longer. Yes, Sam, it is time to kill Crowley. So jump in your time machine and go back a couple of years, and do it when it should have been done in the first place.
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Something else to consider -- Magnus isn't actually "dead" - he's in the veil with all the other recently departed. The possibilities for a spirit with his knowledge and skills are pretty extensive. Not only can be probably get back into his fortress (with the spell, or possibly without it -- I'm sure he considered the possibility that he might die one day and would need a backup plan for getting back home), but he could continue to be a factor in many other ways. He could be an interesting story line if the writers chose to pursue it.
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Sadly, when have the writers of Supernatural ever been that clever/deep/inventive? Just think back to the last episode and the ham-fisted way they handled Ed and Harry's similarity to Sam and Dean.
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I doubt we have seen the last of Magnus.
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Why do the writers seem to always cram the most important story lines in the last two or three episodes every season ? This episode had so much to say in so little time. I'm really beginning to not like the writers of SPN.

Casting directors, Snookie ? Writers you have so much to work with ! Start using you brains. Supernatural fan, but totally upset at the writers.
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Good observation - I outlined a "formula" somewhere else for generating a Supernatural season, and it does involves a hunt for a pointless object, filler eps until someone finds it for them, another dead-end hunt for a Big Bad which also justifies several random cases to fill time until Bobby/Cas/Kevin/Frank pops up to give them the clue they need. It's generally the last three episodes that actually see the conflict emerge that's set up (then dropped) in the first two or three episodes of the season.

They did this as far as back as Dean selling his soul. It was only the last three eps that that suddenly remembered - oh yeah Dean's deal is about to come due and he finally wants to fight.

They really, really. really need a new set of writers for the show to shake things up. It's on auto-pilot at this point. I routinely see fans come up with better ideas than the writers, such as someone's suggestion here that we get an episode about the "campaign for leader of hell".
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Well said, jannel. I think they focus a lot of effort on the first 3 or 4 episodes of the season (to get people to check out the new season), on the mid-term episode cliffhanger (to keep people interested enough to return after hiatus) and on the final 2 or 3 episodes of the season (to get people to come back next season). The rest of the season is pretty much a crap shoot. I continue to be a loyal fan, but season 9 is becoming my least favorite of all.
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Good points. The rest of the episodes involve a hunt for some supernatural object they can't find (excuse to go on random filler cases), Bobby/Cas/Kevin/Crowley finds it for them and then we need a hunt for the Big Bad of the season which they also can't find. Cue more filler episodes until someone finds the Big Bad for them and then the final 3 eps actually deal with the season's plot again.

I used to be Supernatural OBSESSED but the repetition and formulaic plots just wore me down and then shows like Vampire Diaries and Teen Wolf came along with large casts of characters and breakneck pacing and I suddenly realized that the first season of VD would have been 2-3 of Supernatural. :-(

I remember arguing strongly on TV.com that Supernatural should keep going after season 5, but now I'm not sure I made the right call. They really need to start thinking of an end date and and an end game for the show, which would hopefully tighten the writing.
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After this ep I'm not sure I want more men of letters stories. It was a bit boring. I liked evil Dean though, hope we can see more of that even if Crowley understandably confiscated the first blade. I'm still a bit disapppointed, the angels-on-earth storyline didn't live up to the excitement it provoked at the end of season 8. I hope they'll explore other mythologies in season 10.
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What if Sam's seemingly over the top hostility towards Crowley is because part of Gadreel is still in him? Castiel couldn't extract all of Gadreel's leftover grace from Sam. Gadreel would certainly have extra reason to want Crowley killed because Crowley helped Sam kick him out.

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The plots on this show are never that subtle or twisty, unfortunately.
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I don't agree.
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Which major plots over the nine seasons have you found complex, unexpected twists, etc.? We've had things like Ruby that the entire audience saw coming a season away. The only plot "twists" have been somewhat poor retcons that often involved time travel.
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Actually, I remember quite a few people on the boards at the time buying that Ruby was good and really trying to help, they were adiment about it back then and shocked when it turned out to be wrong. I remember a lot of them making up sympathetic back stories to go along with it. Also, I know a lot of people bought that Eve was the big bad when it was Cas and Crowley all along.
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I'm not sure it IS over the top. After everything to have Dean dilly dally about killing Crowley is a bit frustrating and when has it EVER been a good idea to let someone like Crowley run around unfettered? I'm sure he's seeing shades of his relationship with Ruby and where that went, or even Dean and Benny. Not to mention he still has to be harboring resentment to Dean killing Amy. I agreed with Dean on that one but I can imagine Sam thinking: So you won't kill the King of Hell but my friend you couldn't wait to drop?
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What if Sam's seemingly over the top hostility towards Crowley is because part of Gadreel is still in him?

Interesting theory. It might also explain some of the recent hostility toward Dean, who challenged Gadreel directly and is partly responsible for having him expelled. Wouldn't an angel recognize Enochian letters carved into the side of the car, though? Or maybe he was just pretending to not be able to read it, to maintain his cover. Very interesting...opens up a bunch of possibilities...
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And Sam had an almost feral look on his face when he looked at Crowley. Granted he's always wanted Crowley killed, but there is something different about it this time. I don't think I've seen that kind of expression on Sam's face since he was all juiced up on demon blood way back.
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For all of us (including yours truly) who are saddened by Dean's suffering and isolation this season, it's apparently not easy for Jensen, either. Here's an excerpt from a recent interview with Jensen: http://www.eonline.com/news/522285/supernatural-s-jensen-ackles-weighs-in-on-the-brothers-relationship-dean-s-dark-side-just-give-me-some-pie:

"I will definitely say that the dark side of Dean that we have seen this year, I wouldn't be upset if I got to put him away for a while. Just give me some pie and give me some classic rock and send me down the highway. I would be happy with that. I think the dark side of Dean was something that needed to be explored a little bit, and just really down-and-out, rock bottom, desolate, kind of his own island kind of guy, and we've really seen that. It was really tough, especially through like episodes 10, 11, 12, 13, it was a really kind of tough time for me. He hasn't fully come out of it yet, but I'm hoping that does happen. I always kind of love Dean's levity in the heavy situations, and I always like the fact that he can bring some humor to some dire situations, so I'd love to get back into that."
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The more I think about the way Sam and Dean, especially Sam, treated Crowley in this ep, the angrier I get at them. Is Moose even aware that if it wasn't for Crowley, Gadreel would still be controlling him?
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From Crowley's first appearance - when he gave the Winchesters the Colt and they tried to shoot him with it! - they've always been unfair to Crowley. But then after season 5 they completely warped Crowley by having him refuse to give Bobby's soul back and changed him into something darker rather than the occasional wary ally he was much more enjoyable as.
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I'm on the fence here. I mean compared to the few fillers before this ep, it was better. That said, i agree with most on how there were so many problems like how magnus was just killed near the end and the waste about the 'zoo' (unless it turns out crowley is going to use that as his temporary base). I also agree that even though they don't trust crowley, the last thing they should do is whisper in his presence about killing him. I mean couldn't they carry a gun with the pentagram carved in it and stop him like they did with abbadon? anyway, such a shame about these eps when the season started off promising. Too many fillers and too many plots going on (still the unresolved angel factions and trying to get back to heaven stuff). this is why i question the point of the fillers when they have plots that could've filled out half to a whole season and now we are nearing the end of the season with almost nothing to show for it than crowley hanging on to the blade.
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A average episode to say the least , when crowley like this the series really loses its edge, angus lame villian as well with collection of monsters. How did they end in up in the zoo in the first place, at least dean dispatched him. Hopefully supernatural improves towards the finale
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LOW: Crowley trying to steal from the vending machine really bugged me, seriously is he saving his king of hell demon tricks for a rainy day or what?!

HIGH: Loved 'Not Moose'
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At the end of the episode all I could think of is what's gonna happen with the invisible mansion its zoo and priceless collection of art and antiques. I would at least sell some so I can install a jacuzzi and a 4K TV in my man of letters lair. and keep the mansion as a summer retreat.
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I think the way you type is unprofessional. If you're going to write reviews that are read in an intelligent way, that's what you would to do.
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Magnus' turn could've been drawn out, with him advising the boys ala Bobby, but having ulterior motives. What else was in Magnus' zoo? Hopefully the boys are able to use that place as another bat-cave, or at least take advantage of all the other artifcats that are in there.

What a waste.

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Supernatural is becoming like a sitcom where everything "resets" by the end of the episode.
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Wish this ep was stand alone so I was able to forget it ever existed but it's part of the main season storyline :(
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Snooki's appearance was the worst of Supernatural I can remember, that scene needed good acting to work all she was doing was yell her lines?
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i'd say its a tie with the Paris Hilton cameo
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I thought it was better than the last Ruby. I remember thinking when watching her act in a way that sounded like she was reading from cue cards, "Who did she sleep with to get this part?" Then she ended up marrying Jared and I had a literal answer. :-(
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I burn that out of my memory!
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I'm starting to wonder if Crowley/Fergus Roderick McLeod is something more than a demon.
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Well he said in "Clipshow" (which I saw again yesterday on TNT) that his mother was a witch and taught him a few tricks. Probably how he knew how to make his origional crossroads deal in the first place.
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Must be the only one to have enjoyed this episode. Sam annoyed me to no end but it was a good watch. Although it isn't that hard to top the previous snoozefest episode
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You're not the only one! I enjoyed this episode, too. Sam was getting slightly annoying, but I could see why from his point of view. This episode as a stand alone was good. In comparison to the rest of the season, it wasn't the very best of the season.
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I think it’s a real problem that Crowley knows where the MOL bunker is (and what the key looks like), and also knows where Magnus’ invisible fortress is (and the spell for entering it). In the past, his pattern has been to help the boys accomplish the “great task” at hand, but then turn against them as soon as the other threat is neutralized. In season 5, he helped them get Lucifer into the cage, but as soon as that was done he refused to release Bobby’s soul, took over as king of Hell, and started trying to open purgatory. Again, in season 7, he helped the boys kill Dick Roman and essentially end the leviathan threat, but as soon as Roman was blasted to Purgatory, he kidnapped Kevin and started looking for the angel tablet.

I think the Winchesters' distrust of him (especially Sam's) is warranted. He's being a good little demon right now and pretending to be their friend, but as soon as Abaddon is dead, the knowledge he has gained in season 9 will definitely come back to bite them in a big, terrible way. He already has more than enough information to cause great harm when the time is right for him to strike.
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Once Eric Kripke left, they turned Crowley from nice guy ally of convenience into bad guy, starting with Bobby's soul, which I felt was completely inconsistent with what came before it.
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I don't think he knows where the Batcave is. They have blindfolded him every time he has left or entered it.
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I don't think he knows where the Batcave is. They have blindfolded him every time he has left or entered it.

In Road Trip, when Crowley walked to Castiel's car with Dean and Cas -- I didn't see them blindfold him before leaving the bunker. I also didn't see a blindfold in this week's episode when the boys took him from his hotel to the bunker, or (after Crowley was kicking back in the library drinking scotch), when he left with Dean and Sam to find Magnus' hideout.
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Well, it looks like Crowleys 'vote Crowley' campaign failed. Looks like all the demons are siding with Abaddon.
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Did anyone else see the painting, "The Garden of Earthly Delights" in the show behind Magnus when he was holding up the gun at Sam?! Totally nerd-ed out just now.
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"I saw a comic floating around the internet that pointed out how Crowley was looking for the First Blade in the ocean, and oceans are full of salt water, and demons + salt tend to not end well... and now I can't stop trying to rationalize how that worked out. Any thoughts?"
=
I just had a mental image of Crowley in an old time diving suit, searching the sea floor, grumbling as he slowly plods along...
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And once again a fan thinks of something much better than what we ended up with. :-(
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I didn't think Sam or Crowley were out of character dumb. Let's be honest this show has always been full of questionable decisions by the best heroes and villains alike. The episode was a little low on the interest level overall but I didn't think it was terrible. Even Snooki's part wasn't as awful as I thought it'd be.

The worst part of the episode to me is that Mangus ended up being really lame. At first it seemed like the LAST MEN OF LETTERS would be a real cool concept but he quickly devolved into a weird collector who wanted to brainwash Dean. Dean's "Did any of that sound creepy to you?" line summed it up perfectly.

Also, very excited for bloodlust Dean. Glad to have Crowley sobered up too.
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Did anyone else notice how freaking huge Jared was when he was holding Magnus at knifepoint? I mean, I knew Jared was tall, but he was looming over that guy. He had to stoop down just to reach Magnus' neck!
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Lots of things have salt in them, sperm for example has lots of salt yet we know from this episode demons have sex. I assume it's just pure salt, mix it with anything and it's useless, it is magic after all, it doesn't have to make sense. Plus steel is derived from iron so if we're being technical steel should work as well as iron on ghosts but that's not the case so yeah, don't try to apply logic to magicy stuff, you'll just rive yourself crazy.
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You're probably right about the pure salt thing as I know they've said the iron has to be pure to work as well. I also know they (and lore) talk about salt being pure and thus effecting impure things. Purity is very important in lore.
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Hey, about alternate versions of Dean: There's this great one in episode "It's a Terrible Life" (one of my all time favorites!), #17 from season 4 (BTW, all that season was awesome!)
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As far as I am concerned, this is the worse episode of the series so far.But it did make me feel better for being B+,
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I also found this episode to be a bit slow-moving and a tad boring.

They introduced all that magic and Magnus but I don't think it'll actually amount to anything or we'll ever hear about it or see the invisible fortress again. Sam & Dean should consider looking into that magic though - it looks like it could be helpful.
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I also loved the "Not Moose".
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I liked that, too. Crowley has always been a riot!

Best line of the episode "When you were saying any of that, did it feel at all creepy?" I love that Dean is making jokes again and sort of flirting (or at least responding to a flirt). I miss the old Dean and hope we see him again soon.
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I honestly wouldn't like it if they'd start using spells while hunting or whatever, I mean I really would hate to see this series turn out to be Once upon a time! This series started out as a horror themed sitcom, it certainly doesn't need to turn into a magical fantastical thing. Please don't do it!
On another note: Finally Bloodlust Dean!! can't wait to see his "inner psychopath" finally surface with the help of The Mark of Cain of course.
I also loved it when he almost cried because Abbadon keyed Baby, even more so when he tried to wipe it away with his saliva. It was priceless.
As for Sam, I don't even know ... those last dialoges were so very poorly written and disappointing.
I really don't like this pathetic, miserable and filthy looking Crowey. I mean he is/was the King of Hell for crying out loud. I even put my VOTE in for HIM. He needs to get his sh*t together soon! Doubt even loyal demons will see The Leader in him if he keeps acting like a junkie.
Crazy ass Magnus was really surprised the Men of Letters kicked him out back in the day? Anyho, why would Grandpa Winchester want to visit him on the first place???
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The boys already do low level spell work in their hunting. Exorcisms, Devil's Traps, Warding, etc.

I've never really thought about Sam and Dean upping their hocus pocus game before, but this episode showcased why they should. Not only was this episode shockingly bad, it highlighted the glaringly obvious of this long in the tooth series: Sam and Dean should be DEAD!

Sam and Dean have access to a suppository of knowledge, AGAIN! This is like their third such opportunity (Bobby's Library(ies), Their Dad's Journal/Storage Unit, MOL Library and Files). They even have access to a friendly angel with knowledge of who knows what and a frenemy demon whose brains they could pick on a infinite number of subjects. Are the boys smarter and stronger for having all these tools in their arsenal? No, they are not. They appear increasingly stupid (plots demand) and appalling outmatched by their enemies, until such time they are not (plot demands).

What was it, second or third episode of the season, Abbadon threatened to rip off Dean's tattoo and possess him? She could have, should have, and can still do this. Have either Dean or Sam put into any thought of how to ward themselves from possession should their tats be removed? Nope. How many times have they been angel/demon/witch forcefield-ed to a wall/tree/impala? They have no tools to fight this, though they are faced with this challenge CONSTANTLY. They should be dead, seriously. Plot contrivances be damned.
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I agree with you to a certain extent, yes it does feel like they're dreading the end of the Winchesters but, them dying isn't going to be the answer. They both could've died way too many times, still they're both alive for some unknown reason. Who knows what the writers have planned for them? maybe it will be answered in the later eps. I hope they'll fill these holes for us.
Just like so many others, I believe that the series should've ended with season 5. Those episodes and plots were well written.
On the other hand, aren't we still there watching as they struggle with their issues and trying to end all bad and evil ?
Yes, its kind of stupid of them not to learn about all those sources but if you think about it they did kinda used and read journals from Bobby and John Winchester (Dean even kept it with him at somepoint), and sometimes we could see Sam reading those huge MOL encylopedia type of things. Still, yes there are soo many books,informations and such that remains unread and untried. Maybe its because of the plot, I don't know ...
There is a difference between magic and magic, what I meant to say is that I wouldn't like to see them using the enchanting sparkly fairy dust kinda magic, hence : Once upon a time reference. Yes, I'm aware that they are using spells for exorcisim and warding etc. but that's more like witchcraft not magic and fairy tale stuff. For example that magicly appearing entrance to Magnus's fortess (?) was kinda too much for me. I really would not like to see Sam and Dean turn into Harry Potter and Ron Weasly with wands and spells like "wingardium leviosa". True those are great things and they do come in handy but for me it just wouldn't fit this series. These guys struggle and fight for/against everything and everyone.
Can you imagine Dean fighting with a demon, then at some point reaching into his back pocket flinging out a wand then whoosh and point it at the demon whispering a spell then a bright beam will shoot towards said demon , burning him to ashes !? ( I know I over dramatized it, but still)
I honestly can't. From the very beginning the shows catch was how two "ordinary man" is set to fight agains the supernatural using nothing but guns, weapons, salt, sometimes spells and their brains (not lately they don't, I know). True, they occasionally were seeking help from an angel or from The King of Hell himself, but they didn't seem to rely on them.
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Well, the truth is they just have to much going on to spend countless hours poking through tons of books and various objects and trying to sort it all out. We have seen Sam doing some of that since they first got the bunker but even he has less and less downtime to do that sort of thing no matter what the theoretical benefits might be. Now, if they knew there was a bit of information they needed I could see (and we have seen) them dig for that but that's a whole other thing.

I agree about the magic. Keep the show as blue collar and 'down to earth' as you can and keep the effects as minimal as possible. That what works for this show.
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I agree. I understand the general moral principal Sam and Dean started out with, that supernatural things didn't belong on Earth and they shouldn't use them (because it would be witchcraft.) But the problem, for practical purposes, is that over the past 8 seasons, they've moved beyond stuff they can tackle without epic magical powers. Part of why some people are so annoyed about their magical allies (Cas and Crowley) being around is because it's anticlimactic for the heroes to always have to rely on their magical superhero buddies to come in and help them kill every single Big Bad (Lucifer, Eve, Dick Roman, etc) and heal and/or resurrect them whenever they get injured/die. It would be substantially more "heroic" for the brothers if they could do a few more of these things for themselves. Given that they DO have access to the knowledge, and even probably some weapons and items they need, it seems unrealistic that they don't make better use of it all. Their problem-solving alternatives remain:
1. Know their limits and fight less dangerous stuff, flee from Big Bads that are too big (not always an option, and/or would make the show boring)
2. Rely on magical allies (Cas, Crowley, etc.) to heal and help tackle Big Bads (effective, but not satisfying to all audiences because it makes the heroes seem kind of weak)
3. Get more powers/magic spells/magic items/magic weapons of their own so they can deal with Big Bads themselves (would allow the challenges they face to get progressively more interesting and their enemies to get progressively more powerful, but would involve a change in their moral beliefs)
or
4. Get killed by the next Big Bad that has no moral qualms about using the magic enhancements available to it (the most realistic outcome, but makes it kind of tough to have a show!)
IMO, alternative 3 is the one where the story's protagonists are driving the action, so it's the most interesting option.
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To me having them do that stuff would make it worse not better. I like it when they have to fight outside their weight class and still manage to do it themselves. Lets be clear Dean killed Dick, Cas was just there to tell him which one was the real one. I DO agree that the resurrections and the healing is getting old but they should just stop that compleatly not shift the method.
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I think you mean REpository a suppository is something you stick where the sun don't shine.

I don't think I would like to see them using magic like Magnus was doing, it would make the job way too easy and it's not any fun if they don't have to struggle to get the job done.
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LMFAO! You are correct! I cannot even claim autocorrect on this one. I wrote the word, erased it, then wrote it again. I did think the episode was shit, so maybe it was a Freudian slip?
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Have to admit a suspostory of knowledge would be kind of funny, as would Sam and Dean fighting over who would have to use it. :)
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Oh sure blame Freud on this. :) Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Whatever that is worth in this context it's just the only qoute of his I know off hand.
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Why would Grandpa Winchester visit Magnus?

Magnus is/was a genius. Probably not a "square" in Henry's eyes, too. Magnus might have been a brash asshole in his youth, who turned into an eccentric creeper shut-in in his invisible fortress; however, his work outlasted him. The bunker still stands protected, though I think the boys inadvertantly gave Crowley the knowledge he needed to break-in to the bunker in this episode (dumbasses), and all his outrageous ideas that the MOL poo pooed WORKED. I'm sure if they boys had spared a braincell, they would have found all kinds of meticulous notes on the experiments and observations Magnus had made on the various supernatural creatures in his zoo, the spells he utilized, and the copious weapons he had accumulated over the years.
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Henry Winchester was an intelligent man still he would willingly "spend" time in the company of a pshyo collector like Magnus, just so Magnus would let him in on some of his knowledge. He just didn't seemed like that type of a man to me.
Maybe I'm just over analyzing this :)
I didn't question Magnus's genius more like his erratic collecting behavior. Which, I doubt, he only developed throughout the years he spent alone. I don't think MOL kicked him out, cos he was an evil genious. There must've been more to that because we know MOL weren't exactly just a bunch of innocent geeks when it came to demons and such ...
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Not sure Magnus was like that back then. He was unconvential and all but I don't know that he was a creepy shutin collector guy until later.
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I was expecting this to be a really fun episode since it involved Crowley strung out on human blood... but I agree it was a bit boring.
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Have to agree here, when Snooki showing up in an episode isn't the worst part, something here is very, very broken. If nothing else, her God-awful acting made Paris Hilton seem like Meryl Streep by comparison (blasphemy, I know).
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"Not Moose"...that's all I needed to make this episode okay. Not great, but okay. When the time comes, I want SOOOOOOO MUCH for this to be Sam's ringtone on Crowley's phone


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thank you been ages since I've heard that and my inner child loved it. Great show.
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I liked "Not Moose," but I would have been happier with "Squirrel". He even calls them that later in the episode, and not for the first time.
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Just once I would love someone with a Russian accent to call them Moose and Squirrel. :)
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It was an alright episode, not the best, and not the worst. I see it more as a set up of what is to come. I loved how Crowley had Dean programmed in his phone as "Not Moose". Sam was a complete IDIOT when it came to turning on Crowley. Come on Sammy he is literally two feet away from you, maybe wait a little bit or until he is at least out of earshot before you try to ice him. Poor Dean - his "baby" was ruined. Abbaddon is DEFINITELY going to get it now. I am excited to see how the darker side of Dean - just the little glimpse we got in this episode was great. I am glad that Crowley swiped the blade from the boys - I know he has done some bad shit in the past, and even if he is helping them out it doesn't make up for it - but I think the least they could do is wait until AFTER Abbaddon is taken out before they try and take down Crowley too. As Dean has said "Better the devil you know..". I think we have only tapped the beginning of what's about to come.
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Still, Dean did kind of promise that they would take Crowley out as soon as they got the First Blade and Dean was stalling. Take him out now before he stabs them in the back later.
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This otherwise-decent episode turned frustrating when all the forward progress the characters had made during the episode in recovering the First Blade was undone in the last two minutes. For now, it's been established that Sam retains the ability to break Dean out of his MoC-induced killing rage, even though there's been no official resolution to the brothers' conflict yet. It will be interesting to see how long that lasts, or if any of the brothers' other allies (like Cas) can also have the same effect.
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Also is it me, or was Sam over-eager to betray Crowley? That's usually more Dean's style than Sam's. They could off Crowley at any time, but instead they needed to do it right then and there?

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Also is it me, or was Sam over-eager to betray Crowley? That's usually more Dean's style than Sam's. They could off Crowley at any time, but instead they needed to do it right then and there?

Good point, but Sam talked about killing Crowley at the very beginning of this episode. I suspect Sam is worried that Dean is getting too close to Crowley. In Captives, Sam seemed annoyed by how many times Dean was calling Crowley, and in the current episode, Sam smirked that Dean seem to be "worried" about Crowley.
I think Sam is questioning Dean's judgement and wants Crowley out of the way because of Dean. Just my guess...
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One of the things that galls me about Supernatural popped up in this episode. Here Sam and Dean are Hunters who have to fight monsters and demons and suchlike, and their arsenal consists of a trunk of cobbled together stuff, Dad's Journal and Bobby's books.

Then they stumble across a warehouse of lore, spell ingredients, weapons, contacts, and god knows what else. And what do they do? THEY LEAVE IT THERE.

It happened with John Winchester's storage lockers. It happened with the Men of Letters bunker (but, slowly, they are exploring that). And again it happened with Magnus's magical mansion - here is a guy who collects rare magical artifacts and they just stroll out without sifting through everything like kids locked in a toy store after closing.

I would absolutely LOVE a few episodes dedicated to them just sifting through all this junk, finding something interesting, and going "Let's go follow up on this!" Or even getting someone else to do it (oh wait, everyone is dead, Charlie is in Oz and the guy with the golem buddy is off... being a loser somewhere; way to go getting all your allies dead, guys. Hey, Garth could do it!)

Not only that, but with Magnus's mansion, they have a fool proof, demon-proof bunker they could hide away anyone/anything. Instead they just tromp off without even thinking about it.

Also, am I the only one who feels bad for the monsters in Magnus's zoo? They're going to starve in there with their caretaker beheaded.


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Don't think they have time to sort through all that stuff right now and they don't have room to pack it all up and take it home. Also, there's some risk to just blindly 'poking around'. Remember the rabbit's foot? Imagine if they had beenpoking around, found that (with no idea what it was or how it worked). It would've killed one or both of them before they knew what was happening.
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OMGawd, I pretty much said the exact same thing above! I should've kept scrolling before I went off, lol! All the frustrating possibilities!!!!

Only thing is, the Invisible Fortress of Awesome is no longer demon proof. Crowely knows how to fucking break-in!! IF they were going to kill Crowely, it should have been in the fucking fortress. Or they could have locked him up in the zoo. Not only was the fortress demon proof, it's angel proof. As the bunker's location is already compromised by Not!Zeke. Ugh, I bet if they hadn't wasted this MOL story by making Magnus an irredeemable pycho, the boys could have asked him how to selectively ward against certain angels, while admitting a specific one.

Can't you just see the boys realizing at some furture crisis that Magnus had possession of some supernatural item that they need, but when they show up Crowely has taken up residence.
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Not only was the fortress demon proof, it's angel proof...

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall Magnus or anyone else saying his invisible fortress is warded against angels. If the main MOL bunker wasn't warded against angels, why would this one be? Magnus designed the warding for both places.
Also, as far as SNP mythology works, warding works against everybody of a certain species. That's why when Castiel engraved the boys' ribs, he was also hiding them from himself. I guess if there really is "a spell for everything" (as Magnus said) there may be a way around this, but if it exists we haven't been told about it.
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Hmm, I guess I should have clarified my thoughts with a separate sentence. It may or may not be angel proof, but it's existence and location is not on the angelic radar, just like the bunker. The bunker's locale was only known by a select few and now a known enemy, which the Winchesters have taken no precautions against re-entering or destroying their strategic sanctuary because we've seen Cas in the bunker since Not!Zeke killed Kevin.

Speaking of Kevin and "a spell for everything". Yeah, if they could have decided whether or not Kevin had his translational skills at any given time, he and scientist Magnus could have probably INVENTED spells. Someone(thing) had to create them in the first place, right?
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We don't know what they did between when they decapitated Sinclair, and when they left the next morning.
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Not the worst episode of "Supernatural", but far from the best. I really wanted more of the Men of Letters storyline and, although I love the way Mark Sheppard plays Crowley, that character is getting a bit old. And Snooki? Seriously? Enough with the stunt casting! I thought the producers scraped the bottom of the barrel when they gave a bit part to Paris Hilton. Did they really have to scrape under the barrel? I'm looking forward to seeing more Mark of Cain/First Blade Dean, though. This could get interesting.
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The Paris thing was actually pretty funny. This was Shark meet Jump. "Snooks". Really? This was one of SN worst. I adore this show and maybe I am hard on everything post season 5... but this was a total stinker that actually had a cool premise. The lack of smart and just plain quality writing is sorely missing. Even all the name calling fell short this week. The usual "Douche" or "Dick" makes me giggle - but this episode ...it was all just wrong.
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Good grief. She was only on for a grand total of what,,,maybe 60 seconds? People need to stop obsessing about her.
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Good grief. She was only on for a grand total of what,,,maybe 60 seconds? People need to stop obsessing about her.

You're right. Doesn't taking about evil and mentioning it by name just give it more power? Maybe if we all stop talking about "her" (nameless, terrible actress) she'll just go away forever:)
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It isn't her we are bitching about. You know - she actually did OK. It is the stunt casting - that has been cute in the past - now jumping the shark with a C-List celebrity. The fans that have been there from the beginning don't want to have this show cluttered with this BS. It did ZERO for the story. Sometimes they pull it off. But this time ...not so much. Just my opinion. If it didn't phase you that's cool. I wish I felt that way.
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I've been here from the begining and I didn't even know her until they pointed her out. If they hadn't called her by name she would've just been another demon to me.
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he used a one man sub to comb the ocean floor like in gta 5.. thats all i got
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I loved the episode. I think Sammy wanting to kill My King "Crowley" is getting out of hand. I think something is going on there, that we might not be aware of. I love that Dean got to do something else, and I agree with other posters that I would like to see other sides of him like we have with Sam. Can't wait for The Cas show next week. Team Crowley.
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Well, he trusted Ruby and looked what happened. Dean became BFF with a vampire (which Sam also didn't like) and now it's happening again. Add to that the whole Dean killing his friend just because she was a monster but dragging his feet on killing Crowley. He's just seeing a bad pattern unfolding again and, naturally, he doesn't like it. I don't blame him.
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I know that every season Sam and Dean take turns making sacrifices, dying and being mad at each other, to the point where now it's actually kind of redundant. That doesn't mean the show isn't still intense and enjoyable; but it makes me wish that some of the changes stick, remember when demon blood gave Sam super powers which technically I think still would work, can't remember if that was fully resolved other than him not wanting to be addicted; and now we have dean with the mark of Cain and the blade. I'm thinking the blade can make Dean an unstoppable killing machine. Here's a unique idea; it be nice if this became a regular thing and integrated into his character not just a plot device to lead to the next twist for the season finale. I mean when the "Collector" (Someone's been reading Marvel comics) told Sam that he wasn't special; I thought; um... Sam is a special as they come, Dean is normally the normal one except for his secret super power, I'll just call that power, "The Pussy Magnet." Cause whenever Dean is around Pussy of all ages are attracted to him. That is Dean's power "Am I right?" It was weird seeing that older actress flirt with Dean cause usually it's a young twenty something that look like she just about ready to go to the prom. Good episode, total waste of Snooki but she can't act so her short screen time is a blessing. I have a feeling the scene was cut down, there seemed like there was something missing from the scene. But happy to see Dean is the "Special" one this go round. Next year it will be Sam's turn again.
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I thought that blood issue of Sam's was resolved from when Castiel put the brothers on a plane or something, plus in the end of season 5, didn't Castiel pull Sam out of the Pit? Does that mean he remade his body and all (no blood craving and what not)? I'm pretty sure the blood thing was resolved in some way. And isn't the only reason Sam is special is because he was Lucifer's vessel, same as Dean is Michael's?
This series isn't about just Sam. It's about Sam and Dean. I thought I read somewhere where they originally intended for the series to stick to a simple case format but because of BOTH Jared and Jensen's acting/chemistry with each other, they made it more about the brothers. BOTH brothers.
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One of the things that attracted me to this show in the beginning was that these guys were not "magical" in any way. The only weapons they had were their courage, smarts, and devotion to each other -- that made the show very special for me. I think if we start adding special powers, they become like every other vampire-werewolf-witch-superhero on TV and I think that would be a real shame.

That said, I'm glad to see some focus on Dean as a character. It is long overdue. However, Sam's "powers" came at a great price that could have killed him, so I hope (once Abaddon is dead) Dean is able to free himself of the Mark before it kills him or changes him forever.

I'm pretty sure the demon tablet trials cleansed Sam's blood of the demonic contamination he got from Azazel, and there's been no mention of his blood-junkie problem since he got his soul back, so I don't know if he still has that problem. In short, I don't think he's still "special" anymore. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that.
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Lets keep things real, Sam and Dean would have been dead a long time ago ; hell they would not have made it out of season one if they didn't have special help, magic guns and blades, occasional psychic powers, getting possessed by angels with powers, being friends with convenient angels that can pop in and heal them, being vessels every other season, taking turns dying and coming back to life. There is nothing normal or human about these guys. Crowley had the power to throw them up against the car and freeze them there, he's had plenty of opportunities to do that and then kill them and the way they get smacked around and knocked up against walls etc.. no neck snapping, bone breaking etc... I say all that to say that Dean having the mark of Cain and becoming a fierce fighter or Sam having psychic powers wouldn't hurt the show it would make it more realistic that they can fight God's and Demons and not get killed in about 30 seconds
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Maybe you're right. -- as they've developed these characters over 9 seasons, they are clearly not just average guys. However, we don't need another Buffy-superhuman-Harry Potter-esque show on tv. I'd like for Sam and Dean to remain as human as possible -- just saying...
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I disagree buffy is one of my favorite shows, if anything even came close to it, it be my favorite show, True Blood is on it's last season, and Grimm is ok but truth be told the actual Grimm is less magical than Sam and Dean. At the end of the day neither one of us control whether Sam or Dean will have powers and whether they do or don't after all these years all of us fans will continue to watch regardless.
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Yeah actually that's probably what cured him of the remaining 'taint' he had. I forgot about the trials wow. But personally I always thought the reason why people always pointed out Sam was 'special' was the fact he was Lucifer's vessel. Nothing more.
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Sam had superpowers in the first two seasons of the show, too...

I'm going to do my reviews of the Anime series one of these days, but Sam is even more superpowerful there, and that rehashes the first two seasons of the live show.
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Sam had superpowers in the first two seasons of the show, too...

True, but his psychic thing was limited to Azazel-related activity and not very useful otherwise -- at least not until he went dark-side with Ruby. Even when they acquired Castiel, the writers made sure he wouldn't always be able to save, heal, or resurrect them, because that would make it too easy for them to be hunters -- they would be losing a great deal of vulnerability. I meant that I liked the fact that they weren't superhuman or vampire/werewolves or some other supernatural thing that has very limited vulnerabilities. Not that I didn't like Buffy, but we don't need another show like that. I've never seen the anime series, so I can't comment about those...
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Sam is a lot more powerful in the anime, ultimately. And since I just got done watching that last weekend...
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Fun episode no doubt! However I have to agree Winchester back in dumb ass mode again. The 2 points that stay with me is them asking what the language was. I am sure they've read, used and translated Enokian several times. And how easily did Crowley take the first blade from them! Boys really!

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Crowley and sea salt. There is no real world way of rationalising this at all. Essentially sea salt and salt are basically the same chemically. The only answer must be he used a spell of some sort to protect himself.
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Okay, I wasn't even going to bring this up, but one of the theories behind the salt thing is that salt, as a crystaline structure is pure, and demons are impure. Sea salt may be "basically" the same as table salt, but if you try to have a salt water aquarium filled with table salt you'll find "basically" means "not at all, really". Sea salt is full of all sorts of other chemicals and nutrients. It is impure. Similarly, sea salt and blood are "basically" the same thing, but that couple percent difference means you don't really want to replace all of your blood with sea salt.
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Sure there is. He combed the ocean psychically. His body was never in contact with the water.

That's all I got. I know. Lame.
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He combed the ocean psychically. His body was never in contact with the water.

Maybe not so lame...If demons can “find” a person without knowing where they are, can’t Crowley “find” the first blade without actually entering the water to look for it? If human souls give off some sort of signature that demons can use to find us, maybe this powerful weapon also gives off an energy that a demon could lock in on. And maybe once he “finds” it, he can use his telekinetic powers to extract it from the water without ever having to touch salt water.

Not my theory -- a friend suggested it, but it's as reasonable as anything else we've been discussing...
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I was being serious that that was all I could think of. In that context, I shouldn't have so hard on myself. You are absolutely right - they get all glassy eyed and have dialogues where they are somewhere else in their mind while still talking in their physical place. And teleportation for Crawley and Cas is a snap. I really like the salt water concentration idea you guys had - that makes more immediate sense.
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It's a bit like the Angel daggers. Ok yes they have them to off Demons. But surely they would have been warded them or something else so the daggers wouldn't kill Angels. Would Angels really want a demon to pick their own weapon and use it against themselves. Odd! Probably best to stop picking!
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It is really easy to over-think this show. In 9 seasons, there are going to be a bunch of things that screw with the 8 other years of mythology they created. And I am starting to see it more and more. I love Sam and Dean like they were MY brothers. I love the show and the characters. But it is starting to get into the "Enough is enough" area. I wish it had ended at season 5 - but with a spinoff of some sort. Maybe letting Sam make that selfless sacrifice, and then keeping Jensen Ackles and going into a whole different type of show. IDK. I didn't want to see it go, but maybe this is what dad meant by "not letting my wants get the best of me".
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"Dead should stay dead", perhaps?
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I think he'd just have demons possess a bunch of marine biologists and have them drive their remote-controlled explorer bots around the sea floor.
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Demons presumably can't bypass salt when they possess a human, either. Since they seem to spend 99% of their time on Earth doing so, salt wouldn't be much of a barrier if it was that easy for them. ;)
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Possessing marine biologists would be for the purpose of stealing their technology-- those robots they drive around. It's very difficult in general for humans to get to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, I think it's been done by a manned sub like, once? o.O Before that, it was all about robots going there. So if seawater were an actual problem for Crowley, I think swiping some remote-controlled machines would be the way to go.
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True but isn't it an unbroken line of salt? Sea water is only 2.5% salts so it might be dilute or spread out enough that it's not the same. It's not like salt itself burns them like holy water.

And if you wanted to go full on nerd like I do :-) Then human beings have a large percentage of salt in them so by the sea logic they shouldn't be able to enter a person. Humans are 0.15% salt overall, but if you just focus on sweat it's probably higher.


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@jjkrock I stand corrected. I just couldn't recall it. Now I can.
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(see below) The rocksalt shotgun shells repels ghosts - I am not sure I remember them being all that effective with demons. Not at all, actually.

But in 99 Problems and Good God-Y'all (season 5), and Jus in Bello (season 3) I'm pretty sure they used shotgun shells packed with rock salt to repel demon attacks.
Here's an excerpt from 99 Problems:

DEAN
Is that a twelve-year-old packing salt rounds?

PASTOR GIDEON
Everybody pitches in.

That can't just be another mythology hiccup, right?
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The rocksalt shotgun shells repels ghosts - I am not sure I remember them being all that effective with demons. Not at all, actually. That's why that knife Ruby had was such a desired thing.
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D'oh. I forgot about the shotguns. I concede.

Though youd our think inhabiting humans would give them some pain then :-)
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True but isn't it an unbroken line of salt?
But shotgun shells loaded with rock salt don't create an unbroken salt line, either. I think an unbroken salt line stops a demon from crossing, but salt in general repels them -- even if it isn't terribly concentrated.
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LOL ed. I hope nobody thinks that was a burn on Gislef I was calling myself,a nerd more than anything.

I used to LIVE for these kinds of debates back in the day, either about comics or sci fi. Which is why I used to love those arguments on BBT especially the Thors Hammer debate between the girls
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Oh snap. Close the thread, LOL

Nice one kanniballl
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Who opened this can of worms?! Lol! It's like Big Bang Theory when it was pointed out Indiana Jones actually was irrelevant to the story full stop!
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Crowley and sea salt. There is no real world way of rationalising this at all.

I'd put that one in the "poetic license" category -- right next to Crowley moving around freely in a bunker that's supposedly warded against demons. I raised an eyebrow at the beginning of the season when the boys brought Crowley into the bunker as prisoner -- he came right in the front door. Maybe there are different types of warding? I understand not having any powers, but angel warding (as an example) stops entry, too. Just one of those things, I guess.
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Yeh that bugged me too ever since they brought him there: it's warded against all evil and demons but he can just strowl right in? I would have thought a big invisible forcefield would bounce him back 10miles if he tried to enter... or perhaps fry him.
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