A Supernatural Community
Thursday 9:00 PM on The CW (Returning October 13, 2016)

Supernatural S09E10: "Holy Terror"


Despite the copious amounts of whining and crying about Kevin, the pointlessness of his death, and the fact that the Batcave is no longer some fun supernatural clubhouse because now it's yet another location tainted by the loss of a surrogate Winchester, "Holy Terror" was the sort of intense, balls-to-the wall mid-season finale that ruins Christmas in a good way because it needs to be January 14 NOW. 

But first: KEVIN. KEVIN, MY PRESHUS ADVANCED PLACEMENT BABY. I know, I know Osric Chau wrote this really nice goodbye note to Kevin and the show and it's not like Supernatural wouldn't go there, and Kevin was supposed to bite it like two seasons ago anyway and IDK, reasons, but maybe there's hope, right? Supernatural's own canon dictates that when one prophet dies, another one takes his or her place, so if Metatron ordered Kevin's death because of his prophet status, well... another one's just gonna pop up, dude! Are we just gonna have Gadreel-the-angel-formerly-posing-as-Ezekiel smite all of them? Forever and ever? Something tells me Dean and the recharged Castiel (and Sam, if he wasn't incommunicado) would eventually notice that, and getting the Winchesters' attention isn't exactly the best way to keep the Winchesters from squashing your aspirations of world domination. Or heaven domination. Whatever. 


That brings us to the Sammy Meatsuit conundrum: Essentially taking Dean Winchester's kid brother hostage is a surefire way to not only get his attention, but to end up with an angel sword in your face. ALL Y'ALL DID WAS PISS HIM OFF. 

All things considered, Metatron and Gadreel have a pretty crappy plan, but for now, I guess they have the upper hand, or at least the illusion of the upper hand, and "Holy Terror" was certainly a game-changer in that it made it abundantly clear that the tone of the second half of the season will be nothing at all like that the first half. Does this also mean more Abaddon and Crowley action? I hope so!


Let's talk about Gadreel for a sec, though. At first, the big confirmation that Ezekiel wasn't Ezekiel was a smidge disappointing. We saw it coming, sure, but that wasn't the problem. That we saw it coming made the reveal a sort of relief—we were right! We were all right! It's just that the the gut-punch was lessened, in a way, by Ezekiel not being Ezekiel, but also not being anyone particularly special. Gadreel? Who the eff is Gadreel? Cue the verbal vomit to give us this newbie's background, which is actually pretty interesting and could be really interesting given that it parallels Sam's own background in a way. 

In short: I'm not entirely convinced that Gadreel is "evil." I mean, he could be, and he probably is, but he also came off in "Holy Terror" as a dude who wants to atone for past sins, and who's so desperate to do "the right thing" that he's pretty easily manipulated. Remind you of anyone? Like, say, a certain Season 4 Winchester who goes by the name of Sam and totally murdered a pediatrics nurse, drank her blood, and let a freaking demon call the shots, all for what he thought was the greater good? (And also vengeance for the Dean-in-hell thing, but ALSO THE GREATER GOOD, OKAY?) 


IDK. Gadreel looked kind of apprehensive about the Post-It note of death that Metatron handed off to him and didn't seem all that thrilled about being an angelic hitman, but the idea of restoring heaven to the way God intended it to be (if we're to believe Metatron, which, of course, we're NOT), not to mention the idea of becoming a "good" angel despite that time when evil somehow got into the Garden of Eden under his watch... it just seemed like the right thing to do. "I did what I had to" was uttered several times by several different characters in the midst of doing ugly things in the name of good, and if memory serves, Sam made a similar argument at some point during his demon-blood fiasco. 

Good characters can make bad choices. Bad characters can have good motivations. This is the stuff good TV is made of, and while "Holy Terror" was by no means flawless, it was still pretty great. 

I'm really not sure about Castiel's method of recharging the angel batteries, though. 

Angels don't have souls. They have grace. With that in mind, I assumed that each angel's grace was unique and special. Metatron stealing Castiel's grace at the end of last season was so terrible and traumatizing because, supposedly, Castiel couldn't just go get some more at the angelic Kwik-E-Mart down the street... except he could. Sort of. 

The idea of grace being interchangeable between angels reduces it to a sort of commodity in Supernatural's universe. I guess that doesn't make it much different than souls, which have been confirmed to be a form of currency and cannon fodder among angels and demons, but even when being used for less-than-illustrious purposes, souls are still special and unique. When Sam was soulless, Dean couldn't just shove any old soul into that bod and call his bro fixed; it had to be Sam's soul. I assumed that the only way to fix Castiel was to find Castiel's grace, but I guess not. I guess we're all supposed to buy into the idea that Castiel would never steal another angel's grace and that his action falls squarely into the category of "good characters pushed to do bad things," but seriously, if it was that easy, why didn't he just do it in the season premiere and save everyone a lot of trouble? 


Still, yay for Cas being a multidimensional wavelength of celestial intent once again. SPEAKING OF WHICH. HEY. LOOKS LIKE CAS IS BACK TO BEING DEUS EX CASTIEL AND WE HAVE A (PROBABLY) DEAD PROPHET ON OUR HANDS. You can fix that, right, boo? 

Right?

See you 1/14/14. Same Batcave time, same Batcave channel. XOXO



CASE NOTES

– Jared Padalecki has been really great at his insta-switches between Gadreel and Sam since the beginning of this season, but now he's just getting scary-good. THAT SCENE IN THE IMPALA OMG.

– "And no more stupid angels. Maybe some funny ones." Says Boogertron.

– Single perfect man-tear sighting!

– Gadreel's "I need to get something out of the car" felt very Patrick Bateman-y, like, "I need to return some videotapes." 

– So we have Bart vs. Malachi, Metatron and Gadreel vs. Dean (and Cas?) and Abaddon vs. Crowley, and really, everyone vs. everyone. Is anyone else starting to get worried that Season Fiiiiine is starting to get a little crowded? I don't know if we're there yet, but I think it could become a problem, considering how little we've seen of Crowley and Abby so far. 

– Is Kevin dead-dead or is Kevin Supernatural-dead, which is a lot like comic-book dead? Do you have a preference?

– What do you think Gadreel meant by "There is no more Sam"? Is Sam dead? Was Gadreel just being a dick? When he said he changed Dean's spell, what did he change it to? Instead of suppressing Gadreel, did Dean accidentally banish Sam? 

– Do you think there will be any complications from Castiel stealing someone else's grace, or is grace truly interchangeable among angels?


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 5/25/2016

Season 11 : Episode 23

364 Comments
Comments (364)
Submit
Sort: Latest | Popular
Killing Kevin off was stupid. It was a sad move to kill a great character in order to expose weakness to Moose. This crap needs to stop because it is becoming redundant in this series and I am personally losing interest. That said, I hope the series adjusts because it has so many great potential scenarios going for it.
Reply
Flag
I'm just watching the episodes now, and probably everyone just said that, but about the grace, wasn't Anna's issue exactly that she needed HER grace back?
2
Reply
Flag
Jared's switches were too good. I almost believed that it was Tahmoh. I had a suspicion from the start of the season that he was not really Zeke.

I liked the no more stupid angels line.

Season 9b is an all out rumble with all of the different factions going at it.

I hope Kevin is just SN dead. I am 83% sure. Only thing better is to get Prophet of the Lord Chuck back.

Gadriel altered the spell so that he is the dominant one and Sam has to claw his way up to the top to take over. Sam is not dead. He is just resting, very deeply, but resting.

Cas stealing Theo's grace was weird. I thought that grace was NOT interchangeable. I also thought that when Cas lost his grace that he would go back to being Jimmy Novak. It looks like some retconning has been going on.
5
Reply
Flag

I'm sure of one thing, Metatron will use Gradriel like he had used Castiel! Angels begin to bother me, why do they don't want to understand Castiel? This is not his fault!
5
Reply
Flag
this series's awesome! Damn! kevin's dead? seriously? Sam may be trapped forever by Gadriel? and Dean cried? Hey! too much emotions!!!!!!!! This Gadriel gonna pay for what he's done to Kevin and Sam, He has not yet understood that we do not attack a winchester.
4
Reply
Flag
castiel said he wasnt back to normal. another grace doesnt replace or match his own grace. just alittle something to keep in mind
4
Reply
Flag
Gadreel is an angel described as being the one who introduced temptation and lust to Eve, being the true father of Cain, and introducing man to warfare. This according to The Book of Enoch, which is supposedly one of the "books" they left out when the council of Laodicea first put the common "bible" together. He was locked away by God for his deeds.

Supernatural has apparently decided to pull out all the stops if their bringing in Gadreel. I don't buy the whole "seeking redemption" vibe he gives off though. Someone who's been imprisoned that long by their "father" always has deep issues. Supernatural doesn't have very many stories of angels being snubbed by God and still ending up being a good guy.
5
Reply
Flag
Really intense episode. Kevin is dead, Zeke is not Zeke but actually some dude named Gadreel (who has an interesting backstory (finally an angel that is actually interesting besides Cas)), Sam is gone. Jeez. This is why sometimes I prefer the monster-of-the-week episodes because there needed to be some more comedic relief!

I don't think grace IS that interchangeable because Cas said that he is fine for now; meaning the grace is usable but not perfect; like the issue with vessels for MIchael and Lucifer waay back in S5; they could still possess people but it's not perfect.

I really hope that one of these days, at least one of the finales has a happy ending before we dive into the next season full of drama. But still when Supernatural does drama, they go all the way.
8
Reply
Flag
OMG who the hell is Gadriel, and why is he running off with sam's body, the original vessel he had was great he needs to jump back into that guy. Poor Kevin he always gets the raw end of the deal, and I don't think they can fix him. At least cas has his mojo back
3
Reply
Flag
Holy Terror, what a strange episode. Zeke isn't who he says he was and has now done a runner with Sam's body saying no more Sam. Cas has his mojo back (all be it stolen from another angel). Metatron is bored with an empty heaven, should have thought of that before you booted everyone out and shut the gates. Kevin is toast and Dean is once again left balling his eyes out in self pity because he can't ever seem to bring himself to tell the truth to anyone.

And in the middle of all this where are the hellish airing of Abadon, Crowley and all the rest of the demons?? No where apparently. Maybe they have all taken a holiday seeing as the angels are doing such a bang up job of being ahead of the Winchesters and creating hell on earth in an all out angel v angel war.

As it is there are so many places to go now, will Cas be the one to rescue Sam? Is there still a Sam inside that body? Will Dean ever learn to tell the truth? Will the angels go into all out war and will the demons and Abadon come back from where ever it is they have disappeared to? Will Crowley ever be anything more than a blood junky locked up in the bat cave basement? Guess we will have to wait and see.
More+
3
Reply
Flag
I just watched it. It wasn't bad, but it just doesn't wash away the cumulative bad of the season thus far.
Warning: Serious Rant Below


So we have Bart vs. Malachi, Metatron and Gadreel vs. Dean (and Cas?) and Abaddon vs. Crowley, and really, everyone vs. everyone. Is anyone else starting to get worried that Season Fiiiiine is starting to get a little crowded? I don't know if we're there yet, but I think it could become a problem...

This actually made me lol. Crowded? Everyone vs. everyone?Supernatural is as it always is, theoretically crowded. Oh my gosh, so much is happening, sooo much, we can't be bothered to show it on screen or write a logical narrative throughout a season to validate these big culmination episodes for sweeps!! I'm sure they'll mindbogglingly manage a lopsided amount of filler in the remainder of the season despite there being 40 some odd more interesting things they could be exploring.

We've had what, 6 to 7 episodes out of the 9 aired that were essentially the equivalent of watching a dog lick its asshole. Yeah we watched, but it was a pointless exercise. The dog got something out of it I guess, so that's something.

Who the fuck is Malachi? Just another out of the blue big bad that no one's ever heard about ever. OK, so we have factions now. Whoo. Where has Bart been for 8 episodes? Why hasn't Dean sent OTHER HUNTERS to quash their bodyjacking proselytizing, while Not!Ezekiel had him by the family jewels? It's the Close the Gates of Hell plan (Well, obviously WE can't do it because Sam will diiiiiie) all over again. What havoc has Abaddon been doing?? She doesn't have Crowley's decorum, so why isn't she raising hell on Earth again? Scared of angels? Isn't she a Knight of Hell, shouldn't she be made of tougher stuff? Why is Metatron on Earth? He's BORED?? He can't talk to ALL THE DEAD HUMANS? Oh, he hates humans now? Well read a goddamn book. Get a Kindle.

The Angel Gardisil or whatever's motivations. make.no.fucking.sense. If he wanted to lie low, why pick a Winchester? Way to be inconspicuous. Why Sam? He could have suckered Dean into admittance just by saying he could heal Sam from a healthy powerful vessel. Dean was desperate, he would have said yes to his own possession and would have still been just as fucked in the end. Now, not only is Gardisil going to be known, he's apparently strong enough on his lonesome to fight against the factions? Whatever. Between Luci, Mike, Rafe, and Gad (probably Cas)...do all the superpowered angels seem kind of Special Ed? Or is that just centuries of crazy at work? They are so simple. Why couldn't he have joined Team Free Will outright because he heard they were constantly lucky badasses that defeated heaven and hell and that was the side he wanted to be on when he freed? Why couldn't he have stayed in Tamoh? The sexy possibilities!
More+
2
Reply
Flag
Kevin is dead. Good for Kevin. Hopefully Dean won't do something stupid, like rip him from heaven, to assuage his own fucking guilt. Only thing that could come from a Kevin resurrection, would be an even more terrible fate. He'd be shacked up with the forgotten Winchester in hell by the season finale. Goodbye Kevin, they used you as a tool and when you became useless you were murdered for Winchester manpain and shock value.

I'm not pissed about Kevin, they didn't do shit with him. I am; however, still mad about Rufus and Gabriel. Oh, and Bobby. Because killing the interesting secondary characters did this show and and narrative no favors.

So long human Cas, we hardly knew you. And the little we knew was boring, sad, awkward, and of course pointless. They weren't even trying. If there was anything they were going to steal from fanfic, other than Dr. Doolittle AUs, it should have been a well rounded non-special Ed, still gravitas filled, human Cas. But nope. Back to being a tool for Dean, mostly off-screen, probably to be cast aside when Sam is returned.

I think I'll stick to reading reviews for the remainder of the season, see if anything piques my interest towards watching any further.
More +
4
Reply
Flag
I'm pissed about Kevin, but you're right, not as pissed as I'm about Rufus and Bobby. Rufus was the fucking worst pointless death ever.

And thank you for pointing out how asinine this version of Cas is. I can accept his ignorance (sometimes) and I loved the version of him when he lost his marbles, because there was a reason for it.

But how come losing his grace has turned him into this wide eyed, special ed (as you say), clearly comic relief in a show that doesn't need it fool? Where is the depth, strength, and wisdom that comes from being "thousands of years" old and having watched man evolve all that time? You know like how he used to be? Misha is cute and funny, but that doesn't mean they need to fuck up the character to make use of that.

Pizza man, empire state building, not in your ass - hilarious
50 different ways to pray - stupidly insulting.
6
Reply
Flag
observing humanity for thousands of years isn't the same thing as experiencing and living it yourself, but I do agree to some extent. he should've been capable of adapting a lot better than an immigrate who just swam over for the first time.
1
Reply
Flag
I agree completely, but there is also a big difference between ignorance and "aww shucks" naivety.
1
Flag
Unfortunately I don't think Osric Chau would have written a goodbye letter if he was going to be brought back.
4
Reply
Flag
One thing to keep in mind is that Kevin was already killed by Crowley and brought by Metatron in season 8.
Reply
Flag
Actually, Crowley just beat Kevin to an ounce of his life. He was unconscious, not dead.
Reply
Flag
– What do you think Gadreel meant by "There is no more Sam"?

Call me silly (no, it's OK, go ahead) but I couldn't help but hear....

"There is no Dana there is only ZUUL"

... when Sam/Gadreel said his line. :D

9
Reply
Flag
ANGEL WARS
Multiple factions - Metatron is the party to back on that fight. He can wipe the slate clean with his promise to let angels back into heaven. Yes Crowley said the spell is irreversible but he isn't an angel or prophet. Kevin said there was something on the tablet something Meatron tried to hide. Its probably why he had Kevin killed so no prophet to read it. Now he has Gadriel as a personal hitman.

The angel wars are a distraction, their best weapon against Metatron is a prophet. So if the system still works theres probably an episode where there will be a race to find a new prophet.

CAS

Cas stealing another angel's grace I say thats just a plot device to get Cass back on the field and not in minimart. If it were okay why didn't Anna just gank an angel steal their grace. There probably will be major consequences on that.

OBTW Stupid Cas you tell Dean that Sam was bodyjacked by an unknown angel and didn't come to back him up? It was obvious how it would turn out.

GADRIEL

Gadriel is the one I'm interested in. It never occurred to me that Zeke was fake. No wonder he didn't want the angels to know him. From what was said he's top brass, on Michael and Lucy's level. A high Archangel. tried to do some research and found out Gadriel seduced Eve thats it.

HELLSIDE

Abbadon vs Crowley well Abby is probably gearing up for war against so it will probably be after the angel wars are settled..
More+
2
Reply
Flag
"Cas stealing another angel's grace I say thats just a plot device to get Cass back on the field and not in minimart. If it were okay why didn't Anna just gank an angel steal their grace. "

Or maybe from the first angel he killed in the field with a leg off. His ability to steal grace (and so easily) was as ridiculous as Metatron suggesting that after Cas has "married and made babies" he'd come to heaven when he died. #totalFAIL


"OBTW Stupid Cas you tell Dean that Sam was bodyjacked by an unknown angel and didn't come to back him up? It was obvious how it would turn out."

I hate to be defending this episode (because I HATED IT), but Cas doesn't know that Dean let an Angel into Sam, just that one healed him.
Reply
Flag
Just realized what if Kevins death will open the way for Chuck's return?
2
Reply
Flag
It's been my belief since the Season 5 finale that Chuck is God.

And he looked pretty "god-y" in that nice white silk shirt..

Chuck

And when Chuck disappeared in a kewl aura...

Chuck Poof

Very god like, there....

Reply
Flag
This comment has been removed.
Reply
Flag
I keep watching this show but let's be honest over the last few years most weeks it feels like we are just watching the same thing over and over again.
6
Reply
Flag
Agreed. It's like we're stuck in the goddamned mystery spot.

Though if they just want to keep showing me the same things over and over again at least let it be that incredible kiss between Dean and Pamela in heaven.*

*Runners up are: Castiel stripping in the laundry mat, and Dean explaining that "he's fine" in How to Win Friends and Influence Monsters.
Reply
Flag
I feel the same way with most of the standalone episodes because the same formula is always there. Opening scene with gruesome death, Sam and Dean get wind, figure out what they're up against, nearly die and somehow beat it. Problem is that most of the season is standalone and only half a season actually develops the overall narrative.

I don't enjoy a show that is completely void of season arc and honestly, one of the only reasons I've stuck with this show this far is because for all the stalling the story is coming.
1
Reply
Flag
Yeah, I agree. I mean, in just the first half of the season Heaven's evicted all the angels, Dean learns to speak (and think) in Dog, the King of Hell has become a permanent houseguest (Where do I begin to ask for forgiveness? favorite line) And oh yeah, not only are Angels real -so is Oz.
2
Reply
Flag
Didnt all that first happen in Season 2? :)
1
Reply
Flag
Yeah but how many times have Sam and Dean sacrificed themselves and died in order to beat the big bad of that series only to return alive the following season or a few episodes down the track?

I've lost count have you?

How many times will Castiel seemingly die only to return or lose his angel "powers" only for them to return?

I've lost count have you?

How many times will Crowley be the big evil that needs to be defeated in order to save the day?

How many times will Crowley return (surprise, surprise) in order to be a thorn in the side of the Winchester brothers only to be defeated once again?

I've lost count have you?

Honestly it's hilarious how Supernatural has become the groundhog day of television.
1
Reply
Flag
I had a feeling something would happen to Kevin during the conversation with Dean about he always end up screwed. RIP Kevin :(

But to be realistic: This is Supernatural, so it was only a question of time until he bit the dust like everyone else without the Name Winchester!
6
Reply
Flag
I don't think grace is truly interchangeable. I think he stole it because he realized how truly dire the situation is and he took a risk. It is an interesting set up if they don't turn it into a cheap plot device when his powers always malfunction in the critical situation.
I don't see grace as the soul more like the power behind the consciousness. It's what makes an angel and angel but not that precise angel. I would see using someone else's grace as using the wrong type of fuel in a car.
I hope Kevin is only SPN Dead. I love Osric and I love Kevin and while he was often underused he did bring something different to the dynamics of the show.
There is definitely too many fractions. Though I do enjoy Metatron as a baddie. It would be interesting to see him and Abaddon have a throwdown.
2
Reply
Flag
As much as I like Kevin, I hope they leave him gone. The shock of his death would be completely muted if he were to return (much like Bobby's).

I disagree with the grace thing. I feel that grace is more like a power source. It may be considered bad taste between angels to take another one's grace but look at what happened with Castiel. His was taken and he was the same, only powerless.

I think of angel's more like duracell bunnies. If the batteries die then you simply pop some more.
1
Reply
Flag
Do you mean you disagree with my opninion about grace? As what I said is almost the same you did.

On one hand I agree that if they bring Kevin back it will sort of devaluate his death. On the other hand, I felt his death was a rather cheap and lazy plot contrivance and I think he deserved better.
Reply
Flag
My bad. Think I was drunk when I typed that. lol. I think the reason I disagreed was the whole 'not that precise angel' comment. I think of grace more like AA batteries. If my TV remote dies I just pop some more. Angels are who they are (when that angel lost her grace in season 5? she retained identity, only her power was gone) Same with Cas, all he needed was to pop new batteries.
Reply
Flag
Yeah, that's what I mean, maybe I just wasn't clear enough. Tough I do think that having someone else's grace is not the same as having your grace to power you up.
Flag
I think Kevin is permanently dead. Have we ever seen ANYONE come back (or appear again in any dimension-- Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, etc.) after suffering a death due to angelic smiting? Maybe if a divine force takes you out, it's game totally over (as in, non-existence, not removal to an afterlife dimension?)

It was tragic to see Kevin go. But in a way, I'm glad the writers didn't get a chance to mess with him, like make him do some truly awful deeds of his own and then feel soul-crushingly guilty, or turn him into some kind of sexy fan-service character, etc. I'm really glad that Kevin just got to be this shy, studious, impressively focused and increasingly brave kid, right up to the very end.
4
Reply
Flag
It is not that Kevin died that is my issue. Done correctly this could have a been a very powerful moment. Especially with the speech Dean gave him at the beginning of the season. It's the way he died. When a character I like dies, I wanna feel hurt and enraged and disappointed (as much as possible for a fictional tv character) because of what that death meant, to the episode, to the story arc and to the other characters on the show. Not pissed off, because it was handled poorly.

They brought Kevin to the bunker, gave him nothing to do but translate a couple of things and eat and sandwich then forecast his own death and die. #lame
4
Reply
Flag
It just occurred to me.

I assumed that Metatron wanted Kevin killed to eliminate a prophet..

Maybe Metatron wanted Kevin killed so Kevin would be available in heaven..

Following this theory to it's logical conclusion, it's likely we'll see a lot more of Mr Tran in heaven..

One can hope..
5
Reply
Flag
I'd say Kevin is merely Supernatural-dead. It wouldn't surprise me to have his ghost show up. If only to give Dean and Sam an excuse to do an old fashioned ghost banishing.
Reply
Flag
"Is Kevin dead-dead or is Kevin Supernatural-dead?"

He's dead-dead in the sense that he's really dead, and Supernatural-dead in the sense that he's now being tortured in Hell. Great job, Dean.

5
Reply
Flag
Oh, and is anyone else hoping that by changing the sigil, Sam was banished from his body instead of Gadriel and now resides within Tahmoh Penikett, as a way to bring him back into the mix---and also a willing vessel for Gadriel. I certainly am, especially as I am also convinced that Gadriel is essentially trying to do right but merely, like Castiel before him, an unwitting dupe of Metatron. How ironic that the one person he kept trying to shake and have Dean get rid of is the one who could have steered him away from Metatron and his manipulations and instead down the right course.
5
Reply
Flag
I kind of wish they had left the Metatron scenes for another episode, revealing Gadriel's partial backstory and what was clearly conflicted feelings regarding his assignment to kill Kevin. That way, the reveal of him not being Ezekiel would have come when the angel torturing Cas told him that Ezekiel was dead. To me, that would have made it a bigger shock of a moment rather than just the convenient way Team Free Will discover the truth. Not to mention left a lot of mystery as to the motivation regarding the assassination of Kevin Tran going into the hiatus.

Still, as MaryAnn said, this was not an episode without flaws. But, still, in my opinion also, this was a very, very good episode. I loved it! Most especially seeing Jared Padelecki once again stepping up his performance into the realms of awesomeness. He really had become 'scary good' at the swift interchanges between Sam and Gadriel, but this episode added to that by having Gadriel posing as Sam. He truly was on another level at these moments---very much Sam-esque but also so obviously and brilliantly Gadriel/Not-Sam, all at the same time. Truly masterful.
3
Reply
Flag
I agree completely. With all the standalone episodes we've had they could have done it differently. Originally I thought that they should have put the initial Metatron reveal scene at the end of the last episode and let us stew a week, but maybe they could have done so much more! Maybe one random scene each week in the garden or whatever heaven calls its prison but without naming names so the impact would be felt when we realized this is who we were seeing. We'd all be discussing the relevance of these 'throwaway' scenes and we wouldn't have had so little payoff here.
1
Reply
Flag
1a. Castiel stealing grace: He mentions to Dean that he's not back to his former self, but he is an angel. I think the whole Cas situation is like having a ford mustang, losing it, then getting a taurus in its place. Both are cars, both can get you from point A to point B, but one is obviously more powerful. In this case Cas' grace is probably more powerful than this two-bit angel's grace.

1b. The reason it was never mentioned before is probably because Cas, prior to this, wanted to help the fallen angels, and killing one to steal his/her grace just was unthinkable to him. Now with the angels at war with each other, killing people left and right, his stance has changed. Although what I think pushed him over the edge was the angels killing the innocent angel who came to help Cas. Also Cas' feelings for sam and dean, as his family, once he heard ezekiel was dead, he had to escape to warn dean, and he needed angel mojo to do it.

2. The Prophet: Gadreel isn't going to be killing prophets. The only reason Kevin had to go is because he was Team Winchester, kevin trusted them completely and was actively helping them. The next prophet could be taken by metatron and hidden away, far from the reach of Dean.
More+
1
Reply
Flag
I think killing Kevin was solely about the tablets. The spell Metatron cast can clearly be altered if not broken and he wanted to make sure that wasn't going to happen. Gadriel does not seem strong enough to take on other Angels so the rest of the list may be human.
Reply
Flag
Think it was a great cliffhangerish episode.
But loosing Sam again is kinda getting old. We lost him soo many times (Luficer's meat suit Sam,soulless Sam, High on Evil Blood Sam etc), then Dean fought against any and everything to save him so eventually Sammy was saved and all was good, til somepoint when we lost him again .....
I think loosing Dean just this 1 time, would've been a little more refreshing.
Anyway, until they write episodes like this one, I'm okay with loosing him once more.
I know everyone (including me) wants this whole angel thing over with, but we have to realize that fighting against THE ANGELS are "the theme" of season 9, - not Crowley nor is Abbadon its the Angels. We knew this since the end of season 8.
Lets accept this already!

Back to topic:
Was I the only one that thought, that the once naive and somewhat "loopy" human Castiel, lied so naturally and easily to that other(whats his name gngel. As if he had a degree in Lying or something. I know he's a topnotch angel soldier and all, but still it surprised me. And I might've been imaginin', but I think he kinda enjoyed killin' of that other angel o.O ?!
As some of you mentioned previously, I too think that Cas will need more "fixes of grace" to be able to fight in that war, he just declared. That is off course, until he gets his own grace back.
I dont like that they just ended Kevin like that. Hopefully he's not dead dead.
I liked him and wanted to see him happy( I know Im such a girl). And eventhough Gadriel took the tablets, eventually "Team Fight 'em All" will have it back and will need another Prophet if not Crowely to be able to read those tablets and solve this mess best way possible.
I hate Metatron and its kinda irritating how good of a manipulator he is or maybe how gullible Gadriel is.
ps: Hopefully Cas being back in the game does not mean him wearing his fugly trench coat again.
More+
9
Reply
Flag
I have to admit, I was holding out hope that Ezekiel/Gadreel wouldn't go dark side.

I have always liked Tamoh Penikett since his HELO/BSG days...

I think MaryAnn called it..

Gadreel is not going to be the villain in the second half of the season..
2
Reply
Flag
Was it just me or did Metatron's Kill Card look like a Monopoly Community Chest card??
2
Reply
Flag
'Holy Terror' had the largest audience since the season opener with 2.42 million viewers. The season opener had 2.43 million viewers. Season Fiiine is rolling!
1
Reply
Flag
I knew in an instant Kevin would die when he was standing around with a plate of cake. Poor Kevin Tran.
It's a little crowded but so far I like this "everyone vs. everyone".
3
Reply
Flag
Me too. I don't know what it is about Supernatural but I guess it seems like as soon as someone gets comfortable, they die. It was like the cake was a sign that Kevin could be happy again and then they kill him.

Kevin's one of my favourite Supernatural characters so I hope they bring him back.
1
Reply
Flag
What if Kevin returned as an Angel? The most powerful one, as prove that God in their universe is not gone as everyone thinks. Show made Kevin's death really painful and like you said before he suffered a lot, like he himself said he screwed a lot too. He had to sacrified way more than others and he was still on it to do for the sake of 'the right thing' to do.
7
Reply
Flag
I've always hoped that Ken can be a part of the support team. But Ken was miserable and didnt really fully accept his role in all of this. I was hoping the writers could gave him some more to go with. Totally didn't expect this. At least he gets to see his mom, I think.
1
Reply
Flag
I'm going to put this out there:
The first five seasons wrapped with the story arc of the Winchesters being created to fight as the vessels of Michael and Lucifer in the Apocalypse...
The last five with wrap with the Winchesters being created by God to give humans a fighting chance in a three-way fight between angels, demons and humans.
My thinking (and I spent most of my work day coming back to this) is that after the fall, God was completely lost as to what to do.... and as a result of letting Lucifer live, humanity was corrupted and angels apparently were now bloodthirsty jackasses. So rather than destroy all of them and possibly start again, he decided to let them all fight it out and the winner got it all. But at that time humans couldn't make a sweater let alone kill and angel or demon, so he led angels and demons believe He was setting it up as a two-way fight to the finish. And while they fought amongst themselves trying to gain an edge before the apocalypse actually got there, humans slowly gained enough strength, spells and knowledge to make it a fair fight. And the reason the angels and demons weren't worried about the sheer number of spells and wards and sigils that humanity was accumulating was because they thought the apocalypse was the end game, so they didn't matter.
But now, the end of time has been cancelled, and humans have killed demons and angels in fun and various ways. Mostly in the form of the same two Winchesters that the angels and demons were waiting for. So the actual final battle can finally begin, with Dean clearly taking humanity on against everything else that doesn't belong on his planet. And Sam making him doubt himself enough to last the entire final season.
More+
10
Reply
Flag
I can't believe they killed KEVIN!!!!!!
15
Reply
Flag
I think that Gadriel is not inherantly evil. He wasn't evil when he lied to Dean, he just wanted to hide. Hide inside Sam, and stay away from all the other angels on earth. He wasn't trying to bring back Lucifer, he wasn't (at the time)Working for any of the factions. He was a scared and alone angel that had just escaped a prison. Gadriel is not really a bad guy.
13
Reply
Flag
He killed Kevin. He did not question why. He could have taken the tablets and refused the order to kill. He could have told Dean what is happening and then decided for himself about Metatron (and still left if he wanted to).

No one on supernatural is inherently evil... well maybe Abbadon (till we get some backstory). But he is clearly damaged and willing to do evil things without a lot of fuss or questions (puppy dog eyes are not enough). I think this is more telling about his nature then his offer to help Sam.

He's no good.
1
Reply
Flag
I totally agree with you. I don't really see him as a bad guy. Just someone who did what he thought he had to do because like you said he was scared and alone.
4
Reply
Flag
I must confess to some Catholic mysticism...I have heard of Gadriel.

I think the grace thing is different which I got from whatever Cas was saying on the phone. He kind of was acting like he was eating store brand cereal when he'd preferreal frosted flakes.

I assume we will be seeing Kevin again. Something to do with the blood Crowley has but I'm guessing ghost Kevin who might guide Cas to the solution.
10
Reply
Flag
ahhhhhh a month! it will drive me nuts!
4
Reply
Flag
The scene where Cas stole that angel's grace was awesome, it's easy to forget Cas was an elite warrior among the angels and can throw down when need be. But I imagine graces are kind of like guns in a sense, not every gun is the same but they serve the same basic purpose and perform it in a relatively similar way. Cas's grace was probably better than this new angel's but better to have a crappy grace than none at all.
11
Reply
Flag
At any point are we getting more Tamoh Penikett? 'Pysch' guest star - that was Sage Brocklebank playing the angel who Castiel lifted the grace from - he was just as stupid as Buzz and he was good here as Theo. The guest star MVP though goes to Boogertron himself Curtis Armstrong. He is really loving this role and is just fantastic in it. The conversation between him and Jared as Gadreel was the best scene in the episode. He has been playing the dual role to perfection. The best part is he's playing it and you're thinking Tamoh Penikett. His delivery is - wow. That's scary good. That note by Osric Chau was kind of moving. Canada produces another humble and appreciative young actor - Cheers to that. Jensen Ackles and Jared Padelecki are both hitting all cylinders this year. Just watching Dean in that bunker, Kevin is dead and his brother may be he just looked like the loneliest guy in the world as guilt was washing over him. And now we have to wait a month. Way to step off for a few week! Needs more Marc Shepperd (always needs more Mark Sheppard and a little Alaina Huffman and this season is going to be kicking into gear. Great episode
More+
2
Reply
Flag
Follow Up - FYI, I think the writers missed a big plot point when they brought in Lucifer. I mean, where are all the fallen angels?? You have your demons, which are corrupted human souls but Lucifer wasn't the only angel to be banished to Hell. He had an army. That's how they should have balanced out the fact that originally the "heavenly" angels were uber-powerful.
12
Reply
Flag
I at first assumed thats what the Knights of hell were that were all slaughtered by Michael but then they never really explained them. My guess is some are in hell, and some are living undercover on earth.
Reply
Flag
good question
Reply
Flag
Let me prefix with saying that I liked the episode but....

Does anyone else smell a season 7 coming? Season 7 had 2 very strong opening episodes, messed around for a while then gave us a teaser at a bigger plot right before they killed Bobby.

Also, would've preferred the Gadriel reveal to have happened last week right at the very end, let us stew for a week and then GIVE US SOME DAMN REASONING! If Gadriel was indeed trying to help Sam then why the deception to Dean/ being a tool towards Castiel. If he was trying to atone then that doesn't make sense. WHY!

Malachi suddenly being opposition/addition to a threat we've barely seen! Should've given these guys their own episode then crossed them over! PS. Why didn't Castiel hang around a few minutes more and kill him. He says he doesn't want to kill his own kind but surely he must have realized that further harm would be caused by not doing it!

As I said at the beginning, I liked the episode. But I guess that may be my low expectations of this show finally bleeding through to what I'm watching.

Here endeth the rant!

More+
4
Reply
Flag
I'd like to weigh in on the angels as bad guys thing... I don't mind if they want angels to be the "villains" but does it have to be so banal? I mean they act just like demons... or any other monster for that matter. I liked when Cas first showed up & their motives were murky & they were scarier for it. Can't they have motives above common greed, power-mongering etc? I think it would make them much more effective as villains becz their reasons would be inhuman & no matter how you tried to reason with them it wouldn't help. I liked the apocalypse story line (as it started) for just that reason. WHY do you want to destroy the world??!! Cause God said so and God's always right...wow, how do you deal with that?
17
Reply
Flag
Cas looked very unhappy with what he did- I would guess not only did he find it an unsavory thing to do, but that it is not the same as having YOUR grace. My disappointment isn't so much as Cas getting "his" grace back and being an angel again, but I really looked forward to Dean dealing with human Cas and learning Cas in not just a tool in the Winchester tool box. Comments like "baby in a trench coat"comes to mind. But they kept them apart for most of the time. I think it was a lost opportunity.

Other thoughts:
I think when you are smote everything inside is burned up- I don't think Kevin can come back from that.

I think Sam is gone, doesn't mean Sam is actually gone, just suppressed-

6
Reply
Flag
Castiel needed to get back in the game and the scriptwriters made up a quick fix-me-up type of deal. If they actually took the time to make an episode or two of Castiel searching for his grace, it would have been better, but i guess we just have to take the whole slit-a-throat-steal-a-grace-smite combo with a pinch of salt and move on.

Also boooo for killing off Kevin, poor guy never got a break...
7
Reply
Flag
running on fumes
3
Reply
Flag
When Dean kept saying Kevin's name, I couldn't help but think of Pamela Anderson's "Are you okay?" from Scary Movie 3. I couldn't stop laughing, which isn't how I thought I'd react. Come on Dean, his eye holes are smoking. I think we can call this one. ;)

I mean, Jensen was wonderful, as always, and now I feel horrible for laughing at poor Kevin's death. I liked him. Still funny though.
5
Reply
Flag
You should feel horrible...especially since you made me laugh as well. Poor Kevin :0(
3
Reply
Flag
Remember, Pamela lost her eyes when she looked at Castiel but kept her life--pretty much looked like the same thing effects-wise.
2
Reply
Flag
I forgot to say how impressed I am with Jared's portrayal of Gadriel. I know that his speech pattern becomes more formal, but does he change his accent a bit? Why do most Angels tend to speak very formally? Maybe that's what put me off Malachi and his ghetto-biker Angels. Eww. They had no grace; no presence; no "angel-swag." Supernatural fans know what I am talking about. Once an angel enters a room, you instantly know who they are from their manner of walking and the look of quintessential douchiness on their face.
14
Reply
Flag
Lots of folks are saying that they are fed up with the Angels/Heaven story line, but we have to realize that upon introduction of these mighty warriors of God, other protagonists---demons, ghosts, ghouls, vampires, etc---instantly became less threatening and frightening. No other creatures of God are more powerful than Angels. Of course, the show runners took liberties with Judeo-Christian canon by making Leviathans stronger than the lower to middle echelon Angels, but it was mostly unbelievable, because Leviathans could not pull off the aura, grace, and sheer power of Angels.

I don't know about you but I'd rather piss off a Leviathan than an Angel!

So, ultimately, once the Angels are sent packing, Supernatural has to end. I just can't take any other "big bad" seriously.

P.S.
Even as powerful as the Angels in this show are, they still are not as powerful as they are described in the Bible. Reading the physical description of an Angel in the Bible and the destruction they wrought will make you cower in fear. And I applaud Supernatural for depicting Angels as close to their counterparts in the Bible, for most Angels are not feminine-looking, good, caring, etc; they are warriors and they carry out their orders without mercy or hesitation!
More+
6
Reply
Flag
you may want to watch The Prophecy movies (series)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114194/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_73
3
Reply
Flag
Thanks, I will.
1
Reply
Flag
Can some explain to me the following (stupid questions, I know):
  • Does the dagger really kill the angels or do they just leave the human host and swirl around the sky looking for another host?
  • If the dagger kills the angel then is the grace also dead? If so then how did Cas get the grace after using the dagger? If not then is there a lot of grace swirling around the sky (Can someone get/use that grace that is in the sky)?
  • What exactly is "grace"? Is it an angel equivalent of a soul?
  • What happens to "souls" now that heaven and hell are closed?
Maybe this all has been previously addressed in the show and prior comments but either I missed it or am mind-blanking on it.
Thanks!
3
Reply
Flag
they haven't addressed where the human souls go, or where and angel goes after its been vanquished. In one scene Dean actually shrugged it off as unimportant, so they may not make an issue of it. But an angel dying on earth doesn't go to heaven.
1
Reply
Flag
As far as I'm aware (and take this with a pinch of salt) I believe that when angels are killed with the dagger, it is just like human being stabbed with a knife, soul/essence goes up or down. Difference being the angels have 'Superman skin' and the angel weapons are the only things powerful enough to do that. With that being said, if heavens locked off there's only one way to go. Grace is a funny one, but I was under the impression it was like a power source. Remove it and you had a powered down angel (aka human) they would retain memories etc but no powers, but there was a two-parter back in the day involving a woman hearing angel radio who had lost her grace and also her memory. When she received her grace (and apparently it was hers) she also regained her memory. Hell isn't closed, only heaven. Even then they haven't really said whether it's just closed to angels or to everything. As previously mentioned, the only way seems to be down.

The whole angel thing seems to be getting weaker the longer they keep it going. Hopefully I've been able to answer your questions correctly, if not then I'm sure someone else will chime in. At least I may have given you a starting point! lol
More +
2
Reply
Flag
And she didn't lose her grace, she chose to get rid of it. So it fell to earth with her and landed in a field where it sat until the badass angel came and got it, and put it in a vial around his neck. So the grace can be separated from an angel's body without killing them. But I thought the angel swords killed them and their grace. they don't escape like demons do.
Reply
Flag
Retcon, she remembered she was an angel before getting her grace back (remembered as I was hitting submit) so I'm sticking with the power source theory.

Please lemme know if it helps :)
1
Reply
Flag
Thank you Coodookie! You and the others have been very helpful;-)
Reply
Flag
No worries
1
Flag
One would assume that nothing happens that didn't already happen; the humans enter heaven. It's like if your car door lock gets mangled but it's okay because you've got keyless entry; "good" humans have automatic access to Heaven. Otherwise, Death would not have been able to reap Sam in the premiere.
2
Reply
Flag
Dagger kills Angels

Yes, the grace dies - but Cas didnt finish the angel till he took the grace

Grace would be a sum of their super powers, i guess

Not really covered
4
Reply
Flag
  • The dagger does kill both the angel and the host I believe.
  • I think when Cas used the dagger on the angel to steal his grace it wasn't an instant killing strike which enabled him to steal it.
  • I always thought the grace was like the essence of an angel so when it left the one host and entered Cas I thought he would be possessed by that angel since Cas was human.
  • I think the souls still go to heaven. I think it's just the angels who are locked out.
I could be wrong on all of these points, but this is how I see things.





3
Reply
Flag
I am kind of assuming Cas learned a spell at some point for taking the grace from a dying angel. it wasn't like what Boogertron did to get his, so presumably there Castiel wasn't worried about it because it wasn't how he would have expected it.

Reply
Flag
I miss Kevin already. He was by far my second favorite prophet of the Lord. I, too, have grown rather fond of Jared's switching between "Zeke" and Sam acting. It's pretty awesome actually. And, (know that I consider this to be one of my biggest flaws), I cannot see Jensen Ackles cry without shedding a few tears (fine, I pretty much sob) myself. I wouldn't call it my favorite mid-season finale but it held up pretty good, I am pleased.
All in all, January cannot come fast enough!
5
Reply
Flag
I think that Kevin is dead-dead. It was kinda forshadowed when he says he always gets screwed when he simply trusts Dean.
I think it is possible that Sam is banished somewhere, but it is also likely that he is just simply suppressed and can no longer control anything-like when a human is possessed by a demon. Sometimes they are allowed to watch but they cannot interfere. I foresee an episode inside Sam's noggin where he and Gadreel have a heart to heart and things are made right and they will gain an ally in Gadreel who will most likely end up taking one for the team and dying in the end.
I don't think that Grace is entirely interchangeable. I think that Cas can do some basic things with it but I am guessing that he will have some problems because it doesn't belong to him. It is also possible though that the grace is interchangeable and in knowing what it means to have ones grace taken Cas did not want to do it because he is better than that. But in finding out the severity of the situation at hand he had to pull a boogertron and take that poor dupes grace for himself. THe latter is understandable (and plays into other things-like Sam and demon blood-any will do) but the former would be so much more interesting and consistent.

When was it established though that Angel's have no souls?
More+
Reply
Flag
I worry Castiel may find that it isn't enough to just take one angel's grace, that his "charge" will run down sooner rather than later, and that he'll have to keep taking them unless/until he gets his own back. His story arc seems to be setting him up for a move from "gullible and naive" which gets him hurt all the time, to "more tricky, cynical and manipulative" which involves him hurting other people (stealing the grace from the more naive angel, etc.) While I'm relieved the torture scenes this week were brief and we didn't have to watch him suffer for very long, I am not sure this character evolution is overall an improvement. So far it seems that what Castiel has learned from his experiences as a human amounts to using lying and manipulation in order to survive.

He also seems to still be processing the April incident... And still not getting that the WHOLE THING was sick and twisted (not just the part where he got tortured and stabbed) because the reaper was tricking him the entire time. It makes me sad. I wish Cas had gotten the opportunity to learn some positive things about human interpersonal relationships, or that someone could explain to him, "you know, regardless of how hot a woman is, sex is actually a much nicer experience when it's with somebody who knows and cares about you as a person, and doesn't intend to harm you later." I realize maybe it would be out of character for Sam and Dean to explain the finer points of this issue to Cas, but I'd like to see somebody explain it to him, because it seems like otherwise, he isn't going to grasp what a "real" relationship is supposed to be... o.O
More +
3
Reply
Flag
Load More Comments
Follow this Show
Members
15,423