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6th season should have never been made

  • Avatar of LalaDrake

    LalaDrake

    [62]Nov 13, 2010
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    I'm still hoping for the oldWinchesters 2 get back ... but "should have never been made"?!! i still enjoy watching it... n next episode seems lots of fun with fairies and Dean being kidnapped by them... the season is getting better n better thanks God


    bobby was really fun last 2 episodes, "telling the truth" and "weekend at bobby's" ...


    there r lots of unsolved issues that we need to see an end for it; i hope that the give us what we need;
    1. last season, we found out that John n Mary Winchester are not in heaven, where r they?! why Dean is not looking for them, "I'm not expecting soulless Sam" but Dean?!
    2. the kid from "I believe the children are our future"...i thought that there will be big plans for him...
    3. What about Bella... I mean we didn't see her die "as if death is a problem, anyone can get back " I mean come on guys, no ladies in this season?!!
    4. they can always ask for that prophet's help... or why not? but since there is a "civil war" in heaven... who gives premonition? ... that brings to another question; if there is a civil war n heaven is a mess, wouldn't that mean.. there is no God?... then where r premonitions come from? n if it's destiny n God is up there somewhere, why is He still not seen
    5. lots of vamps, werewolves and skinwalkers now! where r all of the good bad demons gone! can't believe that even Crowley "king of hell" is looking for an Alpha creature
    6. What's with Samuel? why him why not John? Samuel who died couple of decades ago... he seems up-to-date with the new technology n kinda stuff!!!



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  • Avatar of basenji529

    basenji529

    [63]Nov 13, 2010
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    Crowley is perhaps the weirdest one. I expect my demons to be evil. Crowley could easily be The Starscream, but I don't see it panning out that way.


    Expect a lot of Chekhov's guns to be fired in the near future. These "we just finished a major story arc and we're on for another season" seasons tend to.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [64]Nov 13, 2010
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    grissomsidle wrote:
    Wow! I am sorry we lost some people. I've walked away from shows before like Smallville, CSI (the original) and um if there's more I don't remember. I am pretty sure I stuck with Nash Bridges until the end. We all have our reasons for doing it and as being someone who hasn't walked away from this one it's different being on this side. It's sad people have lost interest. Season 4 was a solid and great season at least it was for me. Season 5 had it's up and downs. This season well...it's an interesting and enjoyable ride thus far. As for Fringe, I am in the process of catching up. Or rather watching the show at all. I mean I've made my way through season 1 and am waiting for Season 2 to arrive via the mail from Walmart. com I plan on watching the rest after that like online or something. Fringe is fantastic. Supernatural is still my #1 with Bones coming 2nd. Hmmm...I suppose Fringe takes 3rd place then.
    Well, I've given up on shows before (useally because a favorite character is axed or they shake up the show to get better ratings or to keep it 'fresh') but I'm FAR from giving up on "Superntural" and, aside from "Exile on Main Street" I've loved the new season. As for "Fringe" I was lukewarm on the first season (and Walter drives me batty, that kind of thing is only amusing for a short peroid of time then it's old), the second season was up against "Supernatural" and didn't have a chance in my house. Tried to catch up on the thrid season but it was too much and I just didn't care enough to put out the effort so I've moved on.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [65]Nov 13, 2010
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    LalaDrake wrote:

    I'm still hoping for the oldWinchesters 2 get back ... but "should have never been made"?!! i still enjoy watching it... n next episode seems lots of fun with fairies and Dean being kidnapped by them... the season is getting better n better thanks God


    bobby was really fun last 2 episodes, "telling the truth" and "weekend at bobby's" ...


    there r lots of unsolved issues that we need to see an end for it; i hope that the give us what we need;
    1. last season, we found out that John n Mary Winchester are not in heaven, where r they?! why Dean is not looking for them, "I'm not expecting soulless Sam" but Dean?!
    2. the kid from "I believe the children are our future"...i thought that there will be big plans for him...
    3. What about Bella... I mean we didn't see her die "as if death is a problem, anyone can get back " I mean come on guys, no ladies in this season?!!
    4. they can always ask for that prophet's help... or why not? but since there is a "civil war" in heaven... who gives premonition? ... that brings to another question; if there is a civil war n heaven is a mess, wouldn't that mean.. there is no God?... then where r premonitions come from? n if it's destiny n God is up there somewhere, why is He still not seen
    5. lots of vamps, werewolves and skinwalkers now! where r all of the good bad demons gone! can't believe that even Crowley "king of hell" is looking for an Alpha creature
    6. What's with Samuel? why him why not John? Samuel who died couple of decades ago... he seems up-to-date with the new technology n kinda stuff!!!




    1. Where exactly would Dean look. Last he saw Mary (not counting time travel) he was told she was destroyed by a Poltergeist (no big suprise she's not in Heaven) and the last time he saw John (again not counting time travel) he faded away to parts unknown. Where would Dean even begin and isn't a flesh and blood brother a bit more pressing that ghost parents who are MIA?

    2. Rumor has it he MAY be back once they figure out how and why.

    3. I would love that but as unpopular as she was (which is kinda why they axed her in the first place) I wouldn't hold my breath.

    4. Help with what exactly? He can only see the future and last we saw him he left and was secertly God. He's probably not around anymore and wouldn't be much help anyway.

    5. Licking their wounds after their god got sent back to his cage and their plan fell apart.

    6. Not John becasue JDM is WAY too busy doing other things and he's not up on new technology (interweb, come on) he just knows more and better ancient lore.
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  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [66]Nov 13, 2010
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    1. They're in purgatory. It makes sense. Both John and Mary were ghosts when they went for good, and the vampire Alpha said that's where "monsters" go when they die. So my guess is this is why Grandpa Campbell is being Crowley's puppet.


    2. The rumors are just rumors. Sera said they have no intention on bringing Lucifer or Michael back, same with Chuck/God, so why would they bring back the antichrist?


    3. As Libs said, Bela was let go because fans didn't like her and the writers didn't know what to do with her. While it might be argued that she didn't really die, or that she could be brought back, even as a demon, I don't think they have any intention to bring back a character that only a handful of fans liked. I do agree about the lack of women this season, though. There's Lisa, but she is apparently gone for now, if not for good (shut up, Libs). They need to expand on Gwen's character, which I saw them trying to do in last weeks episode, but they need to pick up the pace before it's too late.


    4. Though they wanted to keep the debate open as to whether or not Chuck was a prophet or God, Kripke accidentally spilled the beans in the DVD commentary for The End that "they revealed who God was". So our best bet is that they aren't going to bring him back since it would be a bit awkward. As for who gives the premonitions, I think it came from the archangels since Zachariah said they had planted the one about losing the Michael sword in his head. As for God's whereabouts, why would he be up there if it's civil war if he wasn't there when the world almost ended? I believe in this story that there is a God, who we know as Chuck, but I don't think he has been in Heaven for a very long time and I don't think he's quite ready to go back yet. I think there are still some lessons to be learned. Plus Chuck/God was Kripke's stand-in, and since Kripke is all but gone from the show, there is really no need for his character.


    5. Sera said that they wanted to focus more on the monsters than the demons and angels. Both will tie into the Alpha story later on though, so I'm sure they're having Crowley be involved in this storyline so that when the time comes for them to become more involved, it will make more sense.


    6. Well the biggest reason is that Jeffery Dean Morgan, the actor for John as we knew him, is way too busy to be on the show. Mitch (actor for Samuel) doesn't seem to have a lot going on since his X-Files days so I'm sure he was pretty easy to fit into the schedule.

    Edited on 11/13/2010 3:43pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [67]Nov 13, 2010
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    I like S6, and think it should have been made. In my humble opinion, S5 shouldn't have been made as it was, so one more reason for a redemption season! (hey and this actually rhymes! : ) )
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [68]Nov 13, 2010
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    ToxicAngel503 wrote:


    1. They're in purgatory. It makes sense. Both John and Mary were ghosts when they went for good, and the vampire Alpha said that's where "monsters" go when they die. So my guess is this is why Grandpa Campbell is being Crowley's puppet.


    2. The rumors are just rumors. Sera said they have no intention on bringing Lucifer or Michael back, same with Chuck/God, so why would they bring back the antichrist?


    3. As Libs said, Bela was let go because fans didn't like her and the writers didn't know what to do with her. While it might be argued that she didn't really die, or that she could be brought back, even as a demon, I don't think they have any intention to bring back a character that only a handful of fans liked. I do agree about the lack of women this season, though. There's Lisa, but she is apparently gone for now, if not for good (shut up, Libs). They need to expand on Gwen's character, which I saw them trying to do in last weeks episode, but they need to pick up the pace before it's too late.


    4. Though they wanted to keep the debate open as to whether or not Chuck was a prophet or God, Kripke accidentally spilled the beans in the DVD commentary for The End that "they revealed who God was". So our best bet is that they aren't going to bring him back since it would be a bit awkward. As for who gives the premonitions, I think it came from the archangels since Zachariah said they had planted the one about losing the Michael sword in his head. As for God's whereabouts, why would he be up there if it's civil war if he wasn't there when the world almost ended? I believe in this story that there is a God, who we know as Chuck, but I don't think he has been in Heaven for a very long time and I don't think he's quite ready to go back yet. I think there are still some lessons to be learned. Plus Chuck/God was Kripke's stand-in, and since Kripke is all but gone from the show, there is really no need for his character.


    5. Sera said that they wanted to focus more on the monsters than the demons and angels. Both will tie into the Alpha story later on though, so I'm sure they're having Crowley be involved in this storyline so that when the time comes for them to become more involved, it will make more sense.


    6. Well the biggest reason is that Jeffery Dean Morgan, the actor for John as we knew him, is way too busy to be on the show. Mitch (actor for Samuel) doesn't seem to have a lot going on since his X-Files days so I'm sure he was pretty easy to fit into the schedule.


    1. Yeah but no one KNOWS where that is so helping Sam get his soul back by capturing Alphas also brings them (hopefully) closer to finding Purgatory and (hopefully) getting them out (which I suspect gramps is working on).

    2. Well I HAD heard pretty recently that they didn't want to leave that thread hanging and they were just trying to figure out how to do something good with a kid who can do ANYTHING.

    3. Female characters have a hard time on the show and hunting seems to be a boys club. Seems like all the good intresting female characters get the boot and the boring, poorly written stick around until they just have to go becasue they're messing the whole show up. I would still like to see Sam and Dean female counterparts the writers could have fun with.

    4. I don't really see any reason to revisit the whole God issue per se. It's kinda the same issue as with the Anti-Christ, too powerful to be handled on the show. I mean IF he shows up he either refuses to do anything and looks bad OR he fixes everything the episode falls apart. It's a no win situaiton.

    5. Yeah we've been pretty demon heavy the last few years (like old "Star Trek" was Klingon heavy), let's let them rest a bit and come back refreshed and ready to be evil (with Meg hopefully).

    6. Think there's an echo in here.
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  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [69]Nov 14, 2010
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    1. Which is why I'm pretty sure this is the last season if they're going to be bringing John and Mary back. Or well no, I guess their souls could go to Heaven, but it would seem kind of pointless to get them from purgatory if they're still going to be dead. We don't even know what purgatory really is.

    2. And therein lies the problem. They made him way too powerful. He's practically on par with God and Death to be able to just say the words and Heaven, Hell, or anything else in this universe blinks out of existence.

    3. I'm tired of seeing dudes all the time except for love interests and damsels/monsters of the week. They really need to start coming up with more female characters and stop being so cookie cutter with them. You know I've never really been the type to cry misogyny, but at this point with only 5 of 16 recurring female characters left, only 2 of which are still active, I can't help but think that they have a problem with breasts.

    4. Exactly. It was interesting back then before we knew, and I kind of see what he was going for, but at this point any move he made would be wrong. Same with the antichrist, except he's a kid and maybe they could play the naieve card. But with God? Nope.

    5. I agree. I'm a little tired of their story. Demons were stale after the third season. It's why I liked the angels so much. But now they've both lost their touch. Bad thing is that I'm only mildly interested in the whole MOTW mytharc, so it's kind of blah either way.

    6. Really? Really? Really?

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  • Avatar of caz74

    caz74

    [70]Nov 14, 2010
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    In reply to your point 4, i do not feelt he need for the writers to put female characters into the show, just because it could be seen as too male. I like the fact that I can watch a show without allt he baggage that comes with female/male relationships. This is the reason I have given uyp on Bones, as I have got bored with therelationship angle and I just want them to solve murders.



    Suprnatural has always been a breathe of fresh air in tha respect. What is wrong with a show that is mainly male? I am female and I do nt think there is any misogony in the show. Its just a male orientated show. Nothing wrong with that. I do enjoy it when they have strong female characters, but the show is about two men.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [71]Nov 14, 2010
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    Well, it would be nice if they could bring in a female character who clearly isn't intrested in any that stuff, someone who's all business and doesn't even go down that whole road. Of course the fandom would hate her and call her too cold and aloof and not part of the feel of the show and she would have to go.

    It's kinda like Bela, the things people hated about her (at least the ones people admited to) where exactly what made her exciting and fresh. She didn't wear jeans and flannel, she had a British accent, she was high class and had money, didn't do what she did for some 'greater good'. She was exactly the opposite of everyone else on the show but not out and out evil, just a victim of circomstance.

    There was a lot of fresh area there but the majority of the people just want same old same old. Sure I can understand wanting to preserve the feel and style of the show but you gotta put fresh elements in too or the whole thing stagnates.

    Don't blame the writers, blame the vocal fans who fight change and eveloution of the story and characters (look at all the whining about how Sam and Dean themselves have changed over time) tooth and nail.

    The poor writers just can't win. I used to think I would do anything to work on the show but given how hard the fans are on the writers I don't think I would be in their place for anything.
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  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [72]Nov 14, 2010
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    Are we even watching the same show, Caz?


    Women written within the confines of the show get to have very specific roles and then die or disappear. While male characters have a certain leeway in becoming recurring characters (see: Bobby and Castiel), female characters who might threaten to become recurring characters either become villains who end up having to be put down (Ruby between season 3 and 4, Bela), or are simply completely dropped (Missouri, Ellen, Jo, Kali). While male one-off characters die or disappear regularly too, there is rarely as much attention paid to sketching them as characters and then killing them. Similarly, male characters are often allowed much more leeway in terms of expertise. One-shot or guest star male characters rarely end up standing around, staring at the monster-of-the-week and screaming. Often, like in the case of Special Agent Henricksen, or Damien and Barnes from "The Real Ghost Busters", even when the characters have no experience with the supernatural, they end up offering significant help. And while this does occur with the female guest stars (Sarah is a significant example), it's much rarer.

    I'd also like to point to Bela as particularly egregious of the writers having a female character, not knowing what to do with her and then treating her disrespectfully within the confines of the show. She was painted as one of the few characters who could regularly keep up with, if not completely beat, the Winchesters. But her final episode ended with her on the phone, crying for the Winchesters to save her, while Dean tells her that "[she] should have asked for help earlier."


    Not to mention that while the same episode insinuates that she was the victim of sexual assault, it also includes a scene where Dean backs her against the wall in a clear rape threat. Interestingly, I know several people who didn't notice that "physically backing Bela against a wall" thing, and/or didn't recognize it as the threat of sexual violence despite the dialogue making the implications pretty clear. The "Don't flatter yourself" was a big red flag for me. Not only was it clear that he knew she was thinking he would sexually assault her, he gives her the "only pretty girls get raped" fallacy in response.

    There's also the consideration that somewhere in the third season the amount of issues the show had with regards to women jumped significantly-- the most clear example of this being the number of gendered epithets being used against female characters. I can't find the article anymore, but sometime after the end of season 3, someone went and counted all the gendered epithets (b1tch, slut, skank) and there were more in the third season than the first two COMBINED.


    Not that I think SPN is much more misogynist than a lot of series, but it's much more blatant. With issues that obvious, I don't know how the overall fandom experience could not be sexist. There's a significant pattern of dismissing and disliking female characters-- often even before the characters appear on the show. Jo was treated dismissively by fandom, Ellen "got in the way of their brotherly connection" (although Bobby, who has a similar role, doesn't), Ruby and Bela were going to be "love interests" and pointless before they were introduced and were "b1tches" or "sluts" when they were.


    When I say I want more female characters in the show, I don't mean romantic interests or the whole "will they or wont they" game. That's even putting me off of Dexter right now. What I want for this show is female characters who are totally different than the ones we have seen before. But I doubt that will happen because, according to Jensen, "Women don't fit on this show."

    Edited on 11/14/2010 10:51am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of caz74

    caz74

    [73]Nov 14, 2010
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    I agree with you that female characters have been treated badly, but I do not understand why shows have to have male anmd female characters. I feel the show is right with mainhly male characters, although if they do want ot have a recurring female character then Gwen has the potential to become a good woe, if she doesn't got he way of the other cousins.


    I do not mind watching a show without any female characters in the same as I enjoy shows that have mainly female and no male characters in. I also think that int he context of the world they inhabit it would be difficult to introduce female characters who are realistic. To me hunting does seem to be a male orientated occupation, as partly because of the loneliness and being ont he road all the time without making many ties. THis seems more suited to men than women who tend to need to be more social, probably a throwback to when the women would stay together at home whilst the men went out hunting. I feel it would be difficult for the writers to incorporate a well rounded female character who was actually there for a reason.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [74]Nov 14, 2010
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    ToxicAngel503 wrote:

    Are we even watching the same show, Caz?


    Women written within the confines of the show get to have very specific roles and then die or disappear. While male characters have a certain leeway in becoming recurring characters (see: Bobby and Castiel), female characters who might threaten to become recurring characters either become villains who end up having to be put down (Ruby between season 3 and 4, Bela), or are simply completely dropped (Missouri, Ellen, Jo, Kali). While male one-off characters die or disappear regularly too, there is rarely as much attention paid to sketching them as characters and then killing them. Similarly, male characters are often allowed much more leeway in terms of expertise. One-shot or guest star male characters rarely end up standing around, staring at the monster-of-the-week and screaming. Often, like in the case of Special Agent Henricksen, or Damien and Barnes from "The Real Ghost Busters", even when the characters have no experience with the supernatural, they end up offering significant help. And while this does occur with the female guest stars (Sarah is a significant example), it's much rarer.

    I'd also like to point to Bela as particularly egregious of the writers having a female character, not knowing what to do with her and then treating her disrespectfully within the confines of the show. She was painted as one of the few characters who could regularly keep up with, if not completely beat, the Winchesters. But her final episode ended with her on the phone, crying for the Winchesters to save her, while Dean tells her that "[she] should have asked for help earlier."


    Not to mention that while the same episode insinuates that she was the victim of sexual assault, it also includes a scene where Dean backs her against the wall in a clear rape threat. Interestingly, I know several people who didn't notice that "physically backing Bela against a wall" thing, and/or didn't recognize it as the threat of sexual violence despite the dialogue making the implications pretty clear. The "Don't flatter yourself" was a big red flag for me. Not only was it clear that he knew she was thinking he would sexually assault her, he gives her the "only pretty girls get raped" fallacy in response.

    There's also the consideration that somewhere in the third season the amount of issues the show had with regards to women jumped significantly-- the most clear example of this being the number of gendered epithets being used against female characters. I can't find the article anymore, but sometime after the end of season 3, someone went and counted all the gendered epithets (b1tch, slut, skank) and there were more in the third season than the first two COMBINED.


    Not that I think SPN is much more misogynist than a lot of series, but it's much more blatant. With issues that obvious, I don't know how the overall fandom experience could not be sexist. There's a significant pattern of dismissing and disliking female characters-- often even before the characters appear on the show. Jo was treated dismissively by fandom, Ellen "got in the way of their brotherly connection" (although Bobby, who has a similar role, doesn't), Ruby and Bela were going to be "love interests" and pointless before they were introduced and were "b1tches" or "sluts" when they were.


    When I say I want more female characters in the show, I don't mean romantic interests or the whole "will they or wont they" game. That's even putting me off of Dexter right now. What I want for this show is female characters who are totally different than the ones we have seen before. But I doubt that will happen because, according to Jensen, "Women don't fit on this show."

    You do realize that a LOT of what you're talking about is due to the reactions of the audience, don't you?

    Bela was a sacrifced to the massess partly BECASUE she routiently made Sam and Dean look bad and in the fans eyes the cardinal sin is making Sam and Dean look foolish or less than the perfect heroes (which is why there's such a strong reaction from some quarters when Sam falls under the influence of his darker nature or when Dean even considers a life without Sam in it, I'm opposed to Lisa as a poorly written character NOT because he wants a life without Sam).

    You also forgot Kat from "Asylum" who was gung ho and leading the way (and could shoot even) while her boyfriend was a spinless whimp who just wanted out and freaked out just becasue a ghost kissed him (admitly she was pretty messed up but his reaction was hardly 'manly').

    I would also point out that the major diffrence between Bobby and Ellen is Bobby has a history with Sam and Dean and was there as their surrogate uncle (now father) when they were young. I said then and I say now the biggest mistake with Ellen was making her a stanger to Sam and Dean. They could have known her (and Jo and the Roadhouse) without knowing WHY they stopped going there and what happened to Bill and that was what made the character fail. She came in WAY too soon after John's death and with no grounding in the boys lives.

    As for the rest I'm alway a little leary when people start counting the number of this and the number of that and worrying about there's not enough this or that on the show... Fact is it's easier to use b itch and the others on TV than it would be others (although for awhile there the word of show was dick). They could use b astard but that's so over used and has a totally diffrent meaning and context.

    In short (too late) your entitled to your point of view but I don't think you understand the bind the writers are in when it comes to trying to keep the majority of fans happy. Sometimes the majority goes the way you want and we get to keep Cas rather than have him die and have Anna take over and sometimes it goes the other way and you lose a fountain of new story material from the likes of Bela. I guess thoes are the breaks.
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  • Avatar of LalaDrake

    LalaDrake

    [75]Nov 14, 2010
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    @Toxic ... wow i never thought of this before, but i totally agree with the whole of it @@ as if the writers have some sort of "gynophobia" ... exactly as u said 'bout Bella and Ruby... I kinda liked Ruby at first; being a good demon then they changed that ... and it was really shockin for me exterminating all of good female hunters last season like Ellen who could be a good mentor 4 both of the boys but " no girls allowed" is the motto


    when I said earlier why samuel , not John ... i meant why samuel in particular, why not Bobby? at least he has history with the boys


    still i don't like the alpha hunting... at least not yet, i don't want to end up watchin another vamp story :S ... that leads me to why Samuel is helping Crowelly in his search for purgatory... maybe he looking for someone there? is it going 2 get personal for him? .... where is the greater good, everyone seems to forget about that for their personal intrest


    @ libra ... "Where exactly would Dean look."anywhere! he didn't even bother to think about it... even if John evaporated that doesn't mean he's not somewhere , otherwise Dean wouldn't bother asking about them when he was in heaven... It's his question that brought the idea. Why did the writers brought this up n just forget about it


    demons r more interesting than vampires, but I guess everybody disagree with me but don't you think that Crowelly being king of hell is a little funny, i never took him seriously ... lillith would be better for instance or anyone else that sounds more scary


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  • Avatar of jack756

    jack756

    [76]Nov 14, 2010
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    the way things are looking this show may get a season 7.jensen and jared already signed on for a season 7 so if the cw decide to pick up supernatural again there will be a season 7 and personally im not liking this season 6..and who knws what season 7 may hold if season 6 not that good

    Edited on 11/14/2010 4:46pm
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [77]Nov 14, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,385
    LalaDrake wrote:

    @Toxic ... wow i never thought of this before, but i totally agree with the whole of it @@ as if the writers have some sort of "gynophobia" ... exactly as u said 'bout Bella and Ruby... I kinda liked Ruby at first; being a good demon then they changed that ... and it was really shockin for me exterminating all of good female hunters last season like Ellen who could be a good mentor 4 both of the boys but " no girls allowed" is the motto


    when I said earlier why samuel , not John ... i meant why samuel in particular, why not Bobby? at least he has history with the boys


    still i don't like the alpha hunting... at least not yet, i don't want to end up watchin another vamp story :S ... that leads me to why Samuel is helping Crowelly in his search for purgatory... maybe he looking for someone there? is it going 2 get personal for him? .... where is the greater good, everyone seems to forget about that for their personal intrest


    @ libra ... "Where exactly would Dean look."anywhere! he didn't even bother to think about it... even if John evaporated that doesn't mean he's not somewhere , otherwise Dean wouldn't bother asking about them when he was in heaven... It's his question that brought the idea. Why did the writers brought this up n just forget about it


    demons r more interesting than vampires, but I guess everybody disagree with me but don't you think that Crowelly being king of hell is a little funny, i never took him seriously ... lillith would be better for instance or anyone else that sounds more scary


    Well, in regards to Ruby she was ALWAYS going to be evil, it wasn't some last minute choice it was the plan all along. It's just some people fell for her good demon act then were angry when it didn't pan out that way. As for Ellen Sam and Dean are SUPPOSED to be past the mentor phase. Part of the reason why they killed John off the show was becasue he was keeping them out of the main battle and had to die so they could be in the frontline. They have Bobby as their go to guy for information and last minute assistant so there's not really much point in having Ellen around (other than just for the sake of having her around) and let's be clear about one thing: Ellen and Jo weren't written out then later killed because the WRITERS didn't know what to do with them or anything... they were written out becasue they were unpopluar with most viewers then later killed off because they had no further use for them and they were loose ends (espcially since for awhile they THOUGHT season five was the last).

    As for why Grampa and not John, John is missing and, I suspect, that Grampa was more avialable and had a good reason to cut the deal. It's not a certain thing but I suspect that John and Mary are in Purgatory, thus John would be avaialble since Purgatory is missing AND Gramps is trying to get at least Mary (and hopefully) John out. Some have wondered if that's the case WHY he's keeping it a secret and I don't know yet. Maybe he can only save one of them and he's planning on saving Mary and leaving John trapped and he doesn't think Dean would be cool with that and might make trouble.

    Did Dean ask or did Ash volenteer without being asked? I don't recall but thinking about it I THOUGHT it was the latter and again where can he look when, as far as he knows, Mary no longer exsists (as stated in "Home") and he has no clue WHERE John went. It's a big universe and he can't search it all and with no idea where to start there's not much he can do. Funny you should say that demons are more intresting because a lot of people have said the exact opposite. To each their own, personally I think we've had plenty of demons for now and it's time to do something else. Like the original "Star Trek" when they had Klingons all the time, so much so they TRIED to establish other enemies and when they did the new series they made Klingons allies and focued on something else. Can't live by bread alone.
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  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [78]Nov 15, 2010
    • member since: 08/17/07
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 13,423

    Caz: I...wow. I don't even know what to say here. In reality, I'm far from being an angry feminist. I mean sure I'm a lesbian and I'd sooner shoot a man in the balls than let him hurt me, but I mean I do womanize a bit and I don't really jump down a guys throat for saying gendered epithets casually since I say them too. But even I have to say that stating a woman can't be a hunter or live any other kind of secluded lifestyle because "women are too social and need ties" is absolutely insane. Not every woman is a bumbling, texting, girls-night-out'ing, boy-crazy stereotype. There are plenty of women who would, and actually do, perfectly fine by themselves. And your comment also insinuates that men are more at ease being away from people than women are which is also a lie. Emotional and social needs has no gender.


    Libs: Oh no, I get all that. Trust me. I thought Kripke had balls of steel for keeping Ruby on another year and making her a sort of love interest for Sam. My problem is that they don't necessarily help matters by being equally misogynistic. Many people did, in fact, like Ellen, and they liked Missouri and Meg and even Sarah. The problems begin when a female character becomes more than just background noise. Once they start actually making an impact, then they're getting in the way of their beloved Sam and fricken Dean. See, I think it was sort of a mistake having the story revolve around just the brothers for so long. It makes it virtually impossible to include anyone else.


    I think the only reason Castiel picked up as much as he did was because Misha is "pretty" and his "profound bond" with Dean makes for another slash pairing that isn't wincest or J2. If the angel to pull Dean out of hell was in a female host, even if her acting was on par with Misha's, she still wouldn't have lasted nearly as long. Fandom would have ate that up and spit it out and run over it and killed it with fire. So yeah, I do agree the fans are the biggest blaming factor but they aren't the only ones.


    LaLa: As Libs said, Ruby was always going to be evil. Kripke said so himself multiple times. But even if they hadn't of planned it, most of the fans wouldn't have accepted anything else because demon skanks who break up the precious brotherly bond just has to be evil. Never mind the fact that Sam made all the choices himself. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have resisted for so long because he knew what he was doing was wrong. He just let his nasty anger streak and need for revenge blind him.


    As for why Samuel is helping Crowley find purgatory is that I'm almost 100% positive that Mary and John are there, and so Crowley promised to bring them back once they find Purgatory. So really, it is very personal.



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  • Avatar of caz74

    caz74

    [79]Nov 15, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/10
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 17

    I didn't say that a woman couldn't be a hunter, I said it seems more suited to men. I know there are women who do fine on their own, but also the physical side, and no I am not saying that women are useless at fighting and physical stuff, just tha men do tend to be stronger and over time I feel the physical effects of continually being beaten up would affect a woman more than a man.


    Also, even if there was a woman hunter in Supernatural, apart from Gwen, how woold that fit into the story. TO make them a regular would be difficult because Sam and Dean do tend to hunt alone, although I did like it when they hunted with Ellen and Jo, but what would be the reason for them to keep meeting up with her. I feel the major problem with having a female recurring character is how would she fit into the story. If they found a perfect way of doing that then that would be good, but I just do not see how.


    As to Cas being a frmale angel, I do not feel you aould have got the bond with Dean as it appeared to me that Dean was almost like a big brother teaching a lttle brother how to be a man and have fun. I feel that there would have been an awarkdness between them which would have been a bar to them becoming friends. Part of the reason Dean bonded with Cas so well seems to have been that as Sam was drifting away from him and towards Ruby, Dean seemed at times to see Cas as a substituate brother.

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  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [80]Nov 15, 2010
    • member since: 08/17/07
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 13,423

    So basically you're saying women shouldn't even bother joining the military because after awhile, they'll get sick of being tortured and beaten and dodging bombs. And forget about boxing. Hell, why not sports altogether? I mean that kind of physical exertion isn't healthy for women. Only men should do that kind of stuff.


    I don't know if you've noticed, but Sam and Dean aren't the best hunters. If it weren't for their speshul destiny, they both would have been dead by the end of season two. And also, if you hadn't noticed, Dean's an alcoholic and Sam's...well, he's Sam. So that's proof enough that it does have a profound affect on them, and people consider them "macho".


    You aren't wrong about it being difficult to fit in a female, or hell, even a male hunter on a regular basis. The only reason Samuel works is because Sam goes on hunts with their own little Scooby Gang once in a while, and also because Samuel's story directly involves the over-arcing story of the season. But a female character doesn't automatically have to be a hunter.


    Meg loved Azazel like a father. I'm sure she would rather he be in the corner office than Crowley, who, by the way, shouldn't even have the time to pop up everywhere like he does. Why not have her do his Earthly bidding for him while simultaneously plotting to overthrow him, thus being both a sort of ally and a villain (and it would make Azazel's appearance in 6.01 mean a lot more). I'm sure the spirit world is buzzing with all the chaos. Why not bring in Missouri once in a while? Or how about Lenore? I'm sure she'd be willing to help out with the Alpha vamp without trying to turn the brothers. Or hell, Cassie's a journalist. I'm sure she could very easilly stumble upon something that leads to something even bigger. Or why not make Balthazar an angel in a female host? I don't like that actor or character anyways.


    See, this is why I said they shouldn't have kept the scope of the show so narrow for the first couple of seasons. Not to say it should have been a total ensemble show, but at least have Sam and Dean's world broader than their own family (with the exception of Bobby) so that other characters can easilly weave in and out of the story without constantly being turned to eyecandy or monster food.


    That's true about Castiel which is why I used to slash them like crazy. However, it still could have worked without it turning into romance since Dean's libido went on a steady decline since Lazarus Rising. But of course the media, especially the CW, almost refuses to let men and women be friends without it turning to, or at least flirting with the possibility of it, becoming something more.

    Edited on 11/15/2010 1:10pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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