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Deep Freeze for Lisa?

  • Avatar of gamrgrl007

    gamrgrl007

    [21]Jun 8, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    A break up lacks the emotional impact of Dean walking into the house and finding her dead. Besides it's a family tradition (John went through losing Mary, Sam lost Jess, it's Dean's turn) and is in keeping with the whole recalling season one. I mean how much impact would the first episode had if Sam came home and Jessica had left him so he decides that without her he might as well hunt? Zero compaired to her ending up flambe on the cealing of their place. This will give Dean a personal motive to get back into the game. For years he did it for his mom and becasue of his dad NOW it's REALLY personal.


    Jess' death in Season 1 worked because at that time Sam was young, over his Mom's death (he wasn't gravely affected by it, hence that mini-fight with Dean on the bridge in Ep1), and never for a moment expected anything like that to happen to him. It was an event that knocked out the very foundation of the picture-perfect life he'd built for himself.


    Their mother's death had a similar reaction on John because he wasn't a hunter and didn't know WTF happened with Mary on the ceiling and the 'guy' in the room, their life and family completely devastated out of the blue. That propelled him into near-insanity while seeking for answers.


    Will Lisa's death have the same impact on Dean - who has lost EVERYONE he's ever cared for in his life (with the meager exception of Bobby?) He's lost his father, mother, brother, countless friends, been through the apocalypse, and is now jaded into nothingness.


    So I really doubt Dean needs a 'personal motive' to get back into the game. Something like Lisa dying and thus throwing him back out there will be the easy way out, because then he becomes the 'victim', and the game becomes about revenge, and we do S1 all over again, only this time with Dean moping instead of Sam.


    A much more plausible event would be that some event puts him in contact with Sam, and he makes the CONSCIOUS decision to LEAVE Lisa + kid - either to protect them and / or to follow his new mission. Unlike say, a Jess-Sam college-kids breakup, THIS will have impact, because it will burden Dean with guilt at having to make a choice again, leaving someone he consciously committed to (as a last option, but still), and will draw him unwillingly - yet not as a 'victim' per se - back into the scene.


    All emotional disasters don't need explosions on the ceiling. If done properly, Dean being torn away from barely-stitched-together love and peace can be wrenching as hell, while allowing him to own some responsibility for choosing to return to the hunt.

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    RachelleMcAdams

    [22]Jun 8, 2010
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    gamrgrl007 wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    A break up lacks the emotional impact of Dean walking into the house and finding her dead. Besides it's a family tradition (John went through losing Mary, Sam lost Jess, it's Dean's turn) and is in keeping with the whole recalling season one. I mean how much impact would the first episode had if Sam came home and Jessica had left him so he decides that without her he might as well hunt? Zero compaired to her ending up flambe on the cealing of their place. This will give Dean a personal motive to get back into the game. For years he did it for his mom and becasue of his dad NOW it's REALLY personal.


    Jess' death in Season 1 worked because at that time Sam was young, over his Mom's death (he wasn't gravely affected by it, hence that mini-fight with Dean on the bridge in Ep1), and never for a moment expected anything like that to happen to him. It was an event that knocked out the very foundation of the picture-perfect life he'd built for himself.


    Their mother's death had a similar reaction on John because he wasn't a hunter and didn't know WTF happened with Mary on the ceiling and the 'guy' in the room, their life and family completely devastated out of the blue. That propelled him into near-insanity while seeking for answers.


    Will Lisa's death have the same impact on Dean - who has lost EVERYONE he's ever cared for in his life (with the meager exception of Bobby?) He's lost his father, mother, brother, countless friends, been through the apocalypse, and is now jaded into nothingness.


    So I really doubt Dean needs a 'personal motive' to get back into the game. Something like Lisa dying and thus throwing him back out there will be the easy way out, because then he becomes the 'victim', and the game becomes about revenge, and we do S1 all over again, only this time with Dean moping instead of Sam.


    A much more plausible event would be that some event puts him in contact with Sam, and he makes the CONSCIOUS decision to LEAVE Lisa + kid - either to protect them and / or to follow his new mission. Unlike say, a Jess-Sam college-kids breakup, THIS will have impact, because it will burden Dean with guilt at having to make a choice again, leaving someone he consciously committed to (as a last option, but still), and will draw him unwillingly - yet not as a 'victim' per se - back into the scene.

    All emotional disasters don't need explosions on the ceiling. If done properly, Dean being torn away from barely-stitched-together love and peace can be wrenching as hell, while allowing him to own some responsibility for choosing to return to the hunt.




    I fullly agree with your post. They don't have to kill her off but just have him leave her for and feel guilty about it . I like that youre one of those who don't care for Lisa's character but don't want her killed off because that would be clihce writing.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [23]Jun 8, 2010
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    gamrgrl007 wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    A break up lacks the emotional impact of Dean walking into the house and finding her dead. Besides it's a family tradition (John went through losing Mary, Sam lost Jess, it's Dean's turn) and is in keeping with the whole recalling season one. I mean how much impact would the first episode had if Sam came home and Jessica had left him so he decides that without her he might as well hunt? Zero compaired to her ending up flambe on the cealing of their place. This will give Dean a personal motive to get back into the game. For years he did it for his mom and becasue of his dad NOW it's REALLY personal.


    Jess' death in Season 1 worked because at that time Sam was young, over his Mom's death (he wasn't gravely affected by it, hence that mini-fight with Dean on the bridge in Ep1), and never for a moment expected anything like that to happen to him. It was an event that knocked out the very foundation of the picture-perfect life he'd built for himself.


    Their mother's death had a similar reaction on John because he wasn't a hunter and didn't know WTF happened with Mary on the ceiling and the 'guy' in the room, their life and family completely devastated out of the blue. That propelled him into near-insanity while seeking for answers.


    Will Lisa's death have the same impact on Dean - who has lost EVERYONE he's ever cared for in his life (with the meager exception of Bobby?) He's lost his father, mother, brother, countless friends, been through the apocalypse, and is now jaded into nothingness.


    So I really doubt Dean needs a 'personal motive' to get back into the game. Something like Lisa dying and thus throwing him back out there will be the easy way out, because then he becomes the 'victim', and the game becomes about revenge, and we do S1 all over again, only this time with Dean moping instead of Sam.


    A much more plausible event would be that some event puts him in contact with Sam, and he makes the CONSCIOUS decision to LEAVE Lisa + kid - either to protect them and / or to follow his new mission. Unlike say, a Jess-Sam college-kids breakup, THIS will have impact, because it will burden Dean with guilt at having to make a choice again, leaving someone he consciously committed to (as a last option, but still), and will draw him unwillingly - yet not as a 'victim' per se - back into the scene.


    All emotional disasters don't need explosions on the ceiling. If done properly, Dean being torn away from barely-stitched-together love and peace can be wrenching as hell, while allowing him to own some responsibility for choosing to return to the hunt.

    Just breaking up isn't permenate enough he COULD always come back and he needs a break that will last.

    From what I hear the idea is to reset the series and start over so yeah that's exactly what they're going for plus if some new evil rises to fill the vaccuum left by Lucifer's departure AND that evil takes Dean's attemtp at a normal life away from him forever it will give him the right motive to come back with a vengence.

    I would rather seen Dean out for revenge than just doing it out of some bland sense of obligation.
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  • Avatar of Swordstress

    Swordstress

    [24]Jun 15, 2010
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    Nope, no deep freeze for Lisa. I like her and I like Ben. The fact that Dean wanted to see her before he died in S3 means she remained in his thoughts for several years. While the show won't have him staying with her throughout the remainder of the series, I like the fact that she might be in the periphery of his life, waiting for him to come home. And I certainly don't want her and Ben dying ala Jessica and Mary. Talk about running out of story-lines if that happens. We've so been-there, done-that!

    There's no reason Dean can't keep hunting with a wife and children like his grandfather Samuel Campbell did. If anyone deserves a family, its Dean, who has wanted and fought for one his whole life.
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    ScareyKitty

    [25]Jun 16, 2010
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    The problem with bringing Dean back into hunting while keeping his family is that we will have to lose all his entertaining 'womanising' ways! I simply cant see him without that aspect of his character but maybe thats just me?

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [26]Jun 17, 2010
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    Swordstress wrote:
    Nope, no deep freeze for Lisa. I like her and I like Ben. The fact that Dean wanted to see her before he died in S3 means she remained in his thoughts for several years. While the show won't have him staying with her throughout the remainder of the series, I like the fact that she might be in the periphery of his life, waiting for him to come home. And I certainly don't want her and Ben dying ala Jessica and Mary. Talk about running out of story-lines if that happens. We've so been-there, done-that!

    There's no reason Dean can't keep hunting with a wife and children like his grandfather Samuel Campbell did. If anyone deserves a family, its Dean, who has wanted and fought for one his whole life.
    Since when is maintaining narritive style and consistancy considered repetive and running out of ideas?

    I THINK you're all confusing one for the other. "Supernatual" has spent five years telling us that anyone who gets TOO close dies, that they can't have loved ones or normal lives or settle down or any of that so suddenly turning and doing a total 180 like that would be WRONG.

    She's gotta die for all the reasons I stated and becasue keeping her around would be gigantic loose ends that HAS to be tied up once and for all and just having her walk away or having Dean walk away isn't enough, it doesn't fit the style of the show to have someone like her out there and alive and well, it's much more fitting for her die a horrible death and for Dean to burdened with the guilt that it was his fault for being with her.
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  • Avatar of Swordstress

    Swordstress

    [27]Jun 18, 2010
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    libra113 - No one is confusing anything, and your opinion is just that. I don't happen to agree. And killing everyone in sight so the guys stay alone isn't "narrative style." It's a storyline choice and one that doesn't have to be beaten with a stick until it stops moving.
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    dpebbleson

    [28]Jun 18, 2010
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    I dunno with whose point here to agree Personally I don't like Lisa, so I would want her out of the picture - but, hey, it's just me, and it's not like I'm the writer, or the writers should adapt to what I like or want, which is a mistake they did with Bela, kicking out a perfectly fine character.

    As for Libs' arguments, I would have to say that he is right in the way that it is a sort of a sub-theme of the series. The theme is - family is all that matters - but the sub-theme or the counter-theme would be that founding a family is a hard business for hunters, especially Sam and Dean. To them people close to them are just like the grains of golden sand in Poe's poem:

    How few! yet how they creep
    Through my fingers to the deep,
    While I weep- while I weep!
    O God! can I not grasp
    Them with a tighter clasp?
    O God! can I not save
    One from the pitiless wave?

    So they desire family but their loved ones keep dying. They can't keep them close to themselves, they are really doomed in way to lose all that's dear to them.

    On the other hand, as Swordstress said, that's a story-line choice that doesn't have to be beaten with a stick until it stops moving. The show has just finished its main arc, and is stepping into a new territory. In order to still attract audience, in order to remain fresh, it HAS to change. If they begin S6 like they began S1, they are already predisposing the same ends - this time it would be Lisa that will be avenged instead of Mary or John Winchester. So it would be more of the same. I guess if they tried to find another solution rather than already cliched 'kill the loved ones, it must work for the angst and the tension', and if that solution was clever, then the fans would surely appreciate it.

    The fans greatly appreciated the big change with introducing the angels (even after Kripke stated he would never introduce angels), so with a quality solution comes a quality response.
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    supernaturalhot

    [29]Jun 18, 2010
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    I don't mind Lisa at all. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the situation, but I'm hoping it will be something new because the killing her off and Dean sets out for revenge thing seems a bit old to me. I loved this season, it will be hard to top, but I'm looking forward to the new direction they will be taking with the show. I can't wait.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [30]Jun 20, 2010
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    Swordstress wrote:
    libra113 - No one is confusing anything, and your opinion is just that. I don't happen to agree. And killing everyone in sight so the guys stay alone isn't "narrative style." It's a storyline choice and one that doesn't have to be beaten with a stick until it stops moving.
    It IS a narrative style. Part of the theme of the show is that they are doomed to live the life they live. They are forever denied the very life they fight to protect for others. They struggle and put themselves on the line to protect families so they don't have endure what they lived with and yet, at the same time, are not allowed to enjoy that very thing. They are not allowed to settle down and have families of their own and must forever wander the country fighting evil. That's their lot in life and they have spent the past five seasons telling us thus, to change that now would be silly and pointless.

    Anyway, what would make a more dramatic and startling opening to the new season: Lisa being brutally murdered by the new bad ass demon in town or them just agreeing to go their own way? Seems an obvious choice.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [31]Jun 20, 2010
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    I dunno with whose point here to agree Personally I don't like Lisa, so I would want her out of the picture - but, hey, it's just me, and it's not like I'm the writer, or the writers should adapt to what I like or want, which is a mistake they did with Bela, kicking out a perfectly fine character.

    As for Libs' arguments, I would have to say that he is right in the way that it is a sort of a sub-theme of the series. The theme is - family is all that matters - but the sub-theme or the counter-theme would be that founding a family is a hard business for hunters, especially Sam and Dean. To them people close to them are just like the grains of golden sand in Poe's poem:

    How few! yet how they creep
    Through my fingers to the deep,
    While I weep- while I weep!
    O God! can I not grasp
    Them with a tighter clasp?
    O God! can I not save
    One from the pitiless wave?

    So they desire family but their loved ones keep dying. They can't keep them close to themselves, they are really doomed in way to lose all that's dear to them.

    On the other hand, as Swordstress said, that's a story-line choice that doesn't have to be beaten with a stick until it stops moving. The show has just finished its main arc, and is stepping into a new territory. In order to still attract audience, in order to remain fresh, it HAS to change. If they begin S6 like they began S1, they are already predisposing the same ends - this time it would be Lisa that will be avenged instead of Mary or John Winchester. So it would be more of the same. I guess if they tried to find another solution rather than already cliched 'kill the loved ones, it must work for the angst and the tension', and if that solution was clever, then the fans would surely appreciate it.

    The fans greatly appreciated the big change with introducing the angels (even after Kripke stated he would never introduce angels), so with a quality solution comes a quality response.
    That's all well and good but the REAL reason everyone around Sam and Dean die is becasue the writer's know two things: (1) Sam and Dean ARE the show and (2) Sam and Dean can NEVER really die.

    Further, the options of how to deal with the Lisa/Ben situation are kinda limited. If they DON'T kill them off that just leaves having them mysteriously dissppear like Ava Wilson did which means the show becomes about finding them which is bound to get tedious fast. They COULD just have them break up and go their seperate ways but that likes power and flies in the face of their world and how it works. So she spends all this time with the hunter who played a hand in stopping the demons' plans and throwing Lucifer back into his cage and who has tons of enemies and yet no one is going to go after her or the kid or go after him while they're together. It doesn't fly.

    Sure they COULD come up with something else but it's going to have to something REALLY amazing to equal the power of her being killed.

    About the only option I can see is for her become the new Meg so she can taunt and attack Dean at every turn but I don't think the chick playing her has the acting chops to pull it off, I hate to lose the current Meg (who is outstanding) and even that would get old pretty fast.

    The quickest, cleanist and most consistant with the past way for them to go is brutial and quick death.
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    RachelleMcAdams

    [32]Jun 20, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    I dunno with whose point here to agree Personally I don't like Lisa, so I would want her out of the picture - but, hey, it's just me, and it's not like I'm the writer, or the writers should adapt to what I like or want, which is a mistake they did with Bela, kicking out a perfectly fine character.

    As for Libs' arguments, I would have to say that he is right in the way that it is a sort of a sub-theme of the series. The theme is - family is all that matters - but the sub-theme or the counter-theme would be that founding a family is a hard business for hunters, especially Sam and Dean. To them people close to them are just like the grains of golden sand in Poe's poem:

    How few! yet how they creep
    Through my fingers to the deep,
    While I weep- while I weep!
    O God! can I not grasp
    Them with a tighter clasp?
    O God! can I not save
    One from the pitiless wave?

    So they desire family but their loved ones keep dying. They can't keep them close to themselves, they are really doomed in way to lose all that's dear to them.

    On the other hand, as Swordstress said, that's a story-line choice that doesn't have to be beaten with a stick until it stops moving. The show has just finished its main arc, and is stepping into a new territory. In order to still attract audience, in order to remain fresh, it HAS to change. If they begin S6 like they began S1, they are already predisposing the same ends - this time it would be Lisa that will be avenged instead of Mary or John Winchester. So it would be more of the same. I guess if they tried to find another solution rather than already cliched 'kill the loved ones, it must work for the angst and the tension', and if that solution was clever, then the fans would surely appreciate it.

    The fans greatly appreciated the big change with introducing the angels (even after Kripke stated he would never introduce angels), so with a quality solution comes a quality response.
    That's all well and good but the REAL reason everyone around Sam and Dean die is becasue the writer's know two things: (1) Sam and Dean ARE the show and (2) Sam and Dean can NEVER really die.

    Further, the options of how to deal with the Lisa/Ben situation are kinda limited. If they DON'T kill them off that just leaves having them mysteriously dissppear like Ava Wilson did which means the show becomes about finding them which is bound to get tedious fast. They COULD just have them break up and go their seperate ways but that likes power and flies in the face of their world and how it works. So she spends all this time with the hunter who played a hand in stopping the demons' plans and throwing Lucifer back into his cage and who has tons of enemies and yet no one is going to go after her or the kid or go after him while they're together. It doesn't fly.

    Sure they COULD come up with something else but it's going to have to something REALLY amazing to equal the power of her being killed.

    About the only option I can see is for her become the new Meg so she can taunt and attack Dean at every turn but I don't think the chick playing her has the acting chops to pull it off, I hate to lose the current Meg (who is outstanding) and even that would get old pretty fast.

    The quickest, cleanist and most consistant with the past way for them to go is brutial and quick death.




    Why in the almighty universe are they going to kill a kid off? That be too sad too see and SPN would lose many of it's viewers. Come on even Jason Vorhees doesn't kill children and the demons so far on the show haven't killed any kids so the idea is way bizarre.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [33]Jun 20, 2010
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    Um have you seen "Something Wicked"? They danced around it but thoes kids DID eventually die and there are other cases I'm sure (just have to think back over the show).

    Lisa and Ben are anchors that hold Dean in place and you can't have "Supernatural" with Dean anchored in place. They have to go and it has to be done in a dramatic and powerful and lasting way.

    Having them just go away lacks the 'pull no punches' attitude the show has had from day one.

    "Supernatural" has NEVER played it safe or done what everyone else would do. People die on the show all the time and in horrible and graphic ways.

    Anyone the boys care about and get close to is fair game and to suddenly change the rules for no reason would be the wrong move.
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    dpebbleson

    [34]Jun 20, 2010
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    Heh, it's not gonna be so powerful and dramatic if it's done before. Someone mentioned demons on the other thread, how they aren't as scary as they had been at the beginning. Well, it's because we've seen them a lot and saw there are worse things than them.

    So is it with this kind of beginning - it's in the narrative style of the story very natural, as you say - but kinda used, and wouldn't have the same power as the first time it was used.

    Been there-done that! - effect
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [35]Jun 20, 2010
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    The what would you have them do with these characters.

    Having them just walk away doesn't seem final enough, they CAN'T just wait in the wings for Dean to come back because even if this season ends up being the last I just don't see it going down that way.

    Again, about the only viable option other than just killing them outright that I see is to have Lisa become possessed by the new big bad but then the kid has to be taken out of things as well. A kidnap plotline is even more unworkable than the other options.

    Again, what would YOU have them do? The options are limited and frankly the whole Lisa/Ben thing was never realistic from the jump and the more they kept bringing it up the more unreal it seemed.
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    RachelleMcAdams

    [36]Jun 20, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    Um have you seen "Something Wicked"? They danced around it but thoes kids DID eventually die and there are other cases I'm sure (just have to think back over the show).

    Lisa and Ben are anchors that hold Dean in place and you can't have "Supernatural" with Dean anchored in place. They have to go and it has to be done in a dramatic and powerful and lasting way.

    Having them just go away lacks the 'pull no punches' attitude the show has had from day one.

    "Supernatural" has NEVER played it safe or done what everyone else would do. People die on the show all the time and in horrible and graphic ways.

    Anyone the boys care about and get close to is fair game and to suddenly change the rules for no reason would be the wrong move.



    Actually all those kids recovered and lived because the witch wasn't sucking away the life out of them anymore and the lady of the one kid said so herself that kids were released from the hospital. I could see teenagers dying but kids? Supernatural wouldn't go there
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [37]Jun 20, 2010
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    Yeah but they WOULD have died AND many died off screen between John's first encounter and Sam and Dean's final encounter with the creature.

    I'm not saying they have to make a meal out of it but they have to get rid of these characters as quickly and dramatically as possible so Sam and Dean can get back on the road and on with the hunting evil for revenge thing that they do.
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    dragon22a

    [38]Jun 21, 2010
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    I hope she and her son live but either they go missing and that is what spurs Dean back to hunting or he leaves her behind to go with Sam and she stays behind to wait for him while he takes care of things.
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    dpebbleson

    [39]Jun 21, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    The what would you have them do with these characters.

    Having them just walk away doesn't seem final enough, they CAN'T just wait in the wings for Dean to come back because even if this season ends up being the last I just don't see it going down that way.

    Again, about the only viable option other than just killing them outright that I see is to have Lisa become possessed by the new big bad but then the kid has to be taken out of things as well. A kidnap plotline is even more unworkable than the other options.

    Again, what would YOU have them do? The options are limited and frankly the whole Lisa/Ben thing was never realistic from the jump and the more they kept bringing it up the more unreal it seemed.


    That's a fair question to ask. I thought about it a lot.

    Firstly, I wouldn't start it as S1 started, because that would be too predictable, and used. It would drive Dean into revenge mission, and would replicate entire season 1 and 2 which were sort-of revenge seasons.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't do something totally unexpected just for the sake of surprise. So nothing too drastic. The way they introduced angels in S4 was kinda drastic, but again, not TOO drastic, since when you have demons it's logical you have angels.

    That's about what I wouldn't do. What I WOULD do... It's a hard question, and saying, oh let's just go the way S1 went is a bit too easy solution. But let me say a few suggestions:

    - They become possessed and try to kill Dean; or, Sam comes with the proof that they are possessed, Dean won't listen, and pays dearly, by almost getting killed. They did say that in S6 "nothing is as it seems". Maybe Lisa never was what she seemed to be. They did it a lot in the show, so it would be a narrative style, so to say.

    - I know you dislike the idea, but they could get kidnapped. Or they could just disappear, and leave Dean wondering what happened.

    - Or maybe we are looking in the wrong direction. Maybe there is something drastically wrong with Sam, something mysterious and ominous, and Dean has got to help his brother. Maybe there is no problem with Lisa and the kid, and Dean is attracted to the life of hunting because of Sam being different, or being in a tragic situation, or someone else being in a tragic situation - like for example, Crowley wouldn't let go of Bobby's soul, and they both go in a hunt to make him to it.

    Just to note in the end that I dislike Lisa and how she was introduced. That does not mean, however, that she must necessarily be the one to send Dean back into hunting. It could be a myriad of other options, and we'll just have to wait and see.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [40]Jun 21, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,385
    Oh I agree about Dean's motives, they don't NEED to be driven by revenge per se however, there ARE a couple of issues kind of haning in the air that SHOULD be dealt with:

    (1) Lisa and Ben themselves- As I said they are anchors that hold Dean in place and this is a road show so they HAVE to be removed in some way. Now I'm NOT a fan of either of them so yeah a brutial death would be my perfect option. I've also, suggested possession (in fact having her possessed from the start, maybe right after her first on screen appearance or even before WOULD explain some issues I have with her as a character), maybe they could BOTH be possessed by survents of the new big bad and try to carry out a hit on Dean which fails and leads him to try and save them (of corse the longer that drags out the more tedius it will become AND the less likely he will succseed given how hard demons are on their host bodies). A plan old kidnapping is kind of limiting becasue then if Dean doesn't focus on getting them back 24/7 it won't seem real and it would severally handicap his character from being himself. Maybe if it turns out that Lisa has been possessed from the start and it turns out everything they had was a lie then it would allow him a clean break since he never really knew the REAL Lisa after all and even if the demon is removed it would be unlikely that the REAL Lisa would be the same or want to hang around. The kid is a trickier issue but must be gotten rid of as well. Perhaps in a switch HE is the big bad leader and the demon inside Lisa is his servant playing a part.

    (2) Whatever they do will (and must) have a profound effect on Dean's characters. He MUST morn their passing, be angry at their abuduction, etc... So the Dean we get is not going be the Dean we've seen before but someone new.

    No matter what they do they have their work cut out for them AND things aren't going to be the same, I don't envy their postion at all.
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