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Do you think the character of Ruby brought a gray shade to demons?

Do you think the character of Ruby brought a gray shade to demons?

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    RachelleMcAdams

    [121]Jan 23, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    [QUOTE=") Can't wait to see it and see why it's an issue now. I'm sure they're going to make a lot of Ruby fans happy by redeeming her but I still find it hard to swallow so it will just be one of thoes things they do to make a group fans happy but makes no real sense.
    A demon can NEVER be redeemed especially since they had their humanity burned away from them in hell and don't remember who they were as humans Ruby mislead and betrayed Sam by guiding him to unreleash a evil in the world that would destroy all humanity so even if Ruby loved/ feel for Sam what she did was horrendous and put her on the same scale of bad as Azazel though the difference isshe cared for Sam and had the decency not to harm his loved ones

    Edited on 01/23/2011 7:03pm
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    libra113

    [122]Jan 23, 2011
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    RachelleMcAdams wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    [QUOTE=") Can't wait to see it and see why it's an issue now. I'm sure they're going to make a lot of Ruby fans happy by redeeming her but I still find it hard to swallow so it will just be one of thoes things they do to make a group fans happy but makes no real sense.
    A demon can NEVER be redeemed especially since they had their humanity burned away from them in hell and don't remember who they were as humans Ruby mislead and betrayed Sam by guiding him to unreleash a evil in the world that would destroy all humanity so even if Ruby loved/ feel for Sam what she did was horrendous and put her on the same scale of bad as Azazel though the difference isshe cared for Sam and had the decency not to harm his loved ones

    Well, I meant redeem her in the eyes of some fans not in a get her soul into Heaven thing. Wouldn't matter anyway since her soul was likely destroyed by her own knife.

    Of course she didn't kill his loved ones, it wouldn't have gained her anything. They tried the hard sell so they sent her in there to do the soft sell.
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    basenji529

    [123]Jan 24, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I meant redeem her in the eyes of some fans not in a get her soul into Heaven thing. Wouldn't matter anyway since her soul was likely destroyed by her own knife. Of course she didn't kill his loved ones, it wouldn't have gained her anything. They tried the hard sell so they sent her in there to do the soft sell.


    Yeah, she's not a sentai villain. (For those who don't know, sentai villains typically declare their ideology to be "evil".) She's more subtle than that. But she's a villain, no less.


    Ruby is what we call a Sixth Column. And like many Sixth Columns (Nagisa Kaoru, I'm looking at you.), one of the main characters falls in love with her. Making it all the more painful when he realizes they're doomed to fight.

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    libra113

    [124]Jan 24, 2011
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    Well, don't know if I put them in the Batman/Catwoman area (although I would have put Dean and Bela in that catigory).

    They always say the best villains are the ones who see them selves as heroes. It's always more intresting when the villain thinks they're doing what has to be done and what's right when they're really being all evil and twisted. That's really something she and Sam had in common he was doing evil (at her behest however) but didn't see it.
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    RachelleMcAdams

    [125]Jan 24, 2011
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    I thinkthe best villians are the ones whodon't care Crowley didn't care about Lucifer and just wanted him either waygone Crowley also didn't care about humans but he didn't hate them like most demons

    Edited on 01/24/2011 4:13pm
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    libra113

    [126]Jan 24, 2011
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    RachelleMcAdams wrote:

    I thinkthe best villians are the ones whodon't care Crowley didn't care about Lucifer and just wanted him either waygone Crowley also didn't care about humans but he didn't hate them like most demons

    Well no he didn't hate humans they were his customers and the customer is always right.

    He didn't want Lucifer around becasue it was bad for his business and, of course, with him out of the way it opened the door for his hostile take over.
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    RachelleMcAdams

    [127]Jan 24, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    RachelleMcAdams wrote:

    I thinkthe best villians are the ones whodon't care Crowley didn't care about Lucifer and just wanted him either waygone Crowley also didn't care about humans but he didn't hate them like most demons

    Well no he didn't hate humans they were his customers and the customer is always right.

    He didn't want Lucifer around becasue it was bad for his business and, of course, with him out of the way it opened the door for his hostile take over.
    I take it that most demons either hate humans or see them as insignificant even before Lucifer released demons were celebrating on the fact that one day they would burn this earht
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    libra113

    [128]Jan 25, 2011
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    Well yeah Lucifer hated humans and I guess as he goes so goes most demons. Still, Crossroads Demons need humans to do what they do and would be pretty useless in a world without them. I can only assume that any Crossroads Demon who knew what was good for'em would be opposed to ending the world. Lilith wasn't because while she was Queen of the Crossroads she was also Lucifer's first demon and all that which makes her the exception that proves the rule I guess.
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    RachelleMcAdams

    [129]Jan 25, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well yeah Lucifer hated humans and I guess as he goes so goes most demons. Still, Crossroads Demons need humans to do what they do and would be pretty useless in a world without them. I can only assume that any Crossroads Demon who knew what was good for'em would be opposed to ending the world. Lilith wasn't because while she was Queen of the Crossroads she was also Lucifer's first demon and all that which makes her the exception that proves the rule I guess.



    But in the bigger pitcure I think they want to meet their maker and bring death/destruction to the world like all demons do ,the male crossroad demon in season 4 told Sam "If you when kill me go ahead but i haveserved peace with my lord" so i think the crossroad demons with exeception of Crowley were fanatics of Lucifer

    Edited on 01/25/2011 1:56pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    basenji529

    [130]Jan 25, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well, don't know if I put them in the Batman/Catwoman area (although I would have put Dean and Bela in that catigory). They always say the best villains are the ones who see them selves as heroes. It's always more intresting when the villain thinks they're doing what has to be done and what's right when they're really being all evil and twisted. That's really something she and Sam had in common he was doing evil (at her behest however) but didn't see it.


    It's twisted, but it works. Ruby seems to have been just another pawn for Lucifer. Or rather, for the demons who thought he'd be their bestest friend when he was resurrected. (Granted, Lucifer didn't like demons all that much, but they completely forgot that.)

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    libra113

    [131]Jan 25, 2011
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    RachelleMcAdams wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    Well yeah Lucifer hated humans and I guess as he goes so goes most demons. Still, Crossroads Demons need humans to do what they do and would be pretty useless in a world without them. I can only assume that any Crossroads Demon who knew what was good for'em would be opposed to ending the world. Lilith wasn't because while she was Queen of the Crossroads she was also Lucifer's first demon and all that which makes her the exception that proves the rule I guess.



    But in the bigger pitcure I think they want to meet their maker and bring death/destruction to the world like all demons do ,the male crossroad demon in season 4 told Sam "If you when kill me go ahead but i haveserved peace with my lord" so i think the crossroad demons with exeception of Crowley were fanatics of Lucifer

    Well, maybe but what exactly would a deal cutting demon do in a world with no one to deal with? They would be about obselete and pointless and have no role.
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    libra113

    [132]Jan 25, 2011
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    basenji529 wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    Well, don't know if I put them in the Batman/Catwoman area (although I would have put Dean and Bela in that catigory). They always say the best villains are the ones who see them selves as heroes. It's always more intresting when the villain thinks they're doing what has to be done and what's right when they're really being all evil and twisted. That's really something she and Sam had in common he was doing evil (at her behest however) but didn't see it.


    It's twisted, but it works. Ruby seems to have been just another pawn for Lucifer. Or rather, for the demons who thought he'd be their bestest friend when he was resurrected. (Granted, Lucifer didn't like demons all that much, but they completely forgot that.)

    Well, no more a pawn than the rest of them and it's not so much that they forgot he didn't like them so much as they didn't know or accept it.

    Imagine how much denial there would be if it got around that God hated people and wanted to kill them all. The most devoute wouldn't accept that at all.
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    basenji529

    [134]Jan 26, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well, no more a pawn than the rest of them and it's not so much that they forgot he didn't like them so much as they didn't know or accept it. Imagine how much denial there would be if it got around that God hated people and wanted to kill them all. The most devoute wouldn't accept that at all.


    Given that fundies were up in arms over Pokemon, yeah.


    It's actually interesting. God is a weird mixture of Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, and Yog-Sothoth (all of which have Semitic names to sound extra-ancient), if you actually read the Bible. The angels, Ziz, Behemoth, and Leviathan are all pretty weird, too. And the image of Jesus in Revelation has a sword coming out of his mouth. Of course, God plays favorites, and much of theTorah has Jews playing the role of proud warrior race/master race villain protagonist, killing all comers. Now, of course, this is a mythic history, not a real history, but still, nightmare fuel.


    Come to think of it, if God is a Lovecraftian horror, that would explain why the Middle East can't have five minutes of peace.

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    libra113

    [135]Jan 26, 2011
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    No, they can't have five minutes of peace because they hold grudges that last for centeries and follow closely connected but divergent religions that make them all want acess to the same locations but not tolerent enough to share them with each other.
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    basenji529

    [137]Jan 30, 2011
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    True, but eldritch madness explains it so much better.

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    libra113

    [138]Jan 30, 2011
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    basenji529 wrote:

    True, but eldritch madness explains it so much better.

    Well, I guess in the end it's all the same. I mean if you're holding a grudge for something that happened hundres of years before you were even born then there's something kind of wrong with that.

    Of course some of us aren't much better, it's just the length of the grudge holding is shorter because the U.S. hasn't been around as long.
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