Supernatural Forums

Wednesday 9:00 PM on The CWIn Season

''I'll see you again Cassie, I will''

  • Avatar of zunshine

    zunshine

    [1]Mar 16, 2008
    • member since: 08/14/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 113

    I get that the boys are in a state of war against "evil" while at the same time they are attempting of saving Dean from going to hell. Since Dean situation seems to be more and more grim with dear ole Bella stealing the cult (that probably could have been used to kill the demon contractor or at least used as a leverage, etc) and Ruby admitting to Dean she can't really save him etc. Dean might have to die & become a demon himself (I shiver at the thought of it! but it looks like it might happen much to my dismay)... Anyways someone had a thread of what Dean might do on his last day, we have already seen what he has been doing over the past "year"... enjoying life as much as possible by doing all these crazy things as well as calling up a couple of his old flames, etc However, since his run in with Lisa and realizing some of the things he never got to experience and would now be missing out on... I think it would only be natural for him to go back to the one he loved?

    Like a soldier going to fight in a war where he might be killed or like someone whose dying of an illness shouldn't he be saying farewell to his one true love or at least try to see her one last time? Now I know all of the haters going to jump on me for daring to suggest that the writers should bring back Cassie and provide some form of closure to her character once and for all. Especially, since things were left on Dean's note: ''I'll see you again Cassie, I will'' to me it felt like he really meant it and I would hate to believe that Dean is not a man of his words

    Some may disagree and say that he is over her, I beg to differ I think the only reason we never heard Dean mention her ever since has to do with the fact that she was his weak spot (with exception to Dean's fear of flying and his family). One could tell from when they sadly departed how deeply Dean was affected by it that he wasn't willing to even address it. As we are all aware of, Dean doesn't allow himself to show such tender and affectionate emotions that easily. Hence I think she is still stashed somewhere in the back of his mind (especially with him now possibly "dying"). It would only be logical, in my opinion to have him say his good bye to the one lady in his life that wasn't a mere one night stand. This is why it would be interesting to bring Cassie back in season 3, like they have done with the other of the characters.

    Now the question isn't whether you liked Cassie or not, but story wise is it not only reasonable that Dean would think of reaching out to her either in/directly in his coming final days?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of pumacat7

    pumacat7

    [2]Mar 16, 2008
    • member since: 02/06/08
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 919
    I can see where you're coming from. I liked Cassie and Dean. Or maybe it was the vulnerability Dean showed around her. Not really sure which. But in any case he did seem to really have feelings for her. And normally if someone was going to die and they had the opportunity to bring closure on some things in there life they would. The problem with that, in this situation, is we are on limited airtime. Maybe if we were getting all the episodes we should in season 3 there might be time to explore such things. For me it seems things will be rushed as is. And that using up airtime to bring closure with Cassie is just not feasible.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of hikinggirl70

    hikinggirl70

    [3]Mar 16, 2008
    • member since: 08/14/07
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 2,474

    pumacat7 wrote:
    I can see where you're coming from. I liked Cassie and Dean. Or maybe it was the vulnerability Dean showed around her. Not really sure which. But in any case he did seem to really have feelings for her. And normally if someone was going to die and they had the opportunity to bring closure on some things in there life they would. The problem with that, in this situation, is we are on limited airtime. Maybe if we were getting all the episodes we should in season 3 there might be time to explore such things. For me it seems things will be rushed as is. And that using up airtime to bring closure with Cassie is just not feasible.

    I agree, even if Dean still loves Cassie and wanted to say good-bye to her, I don't think we will see it since there is not enough time for it. I do believe if the writers were thinking of having Cassie back they would of done it already since Dean was revisiting old flames in the Kids one.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [4]Mar 16, 2008
    • member since: 08/17/07
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 13,423
    I really liked Cassie, but I doubt Dean's gonna be spending the last day he may have with an old girlfriend rather then either with Sam spending a brotherly last day or trying frantically to save Dean right up until the last minute. I would like to see her come back, but if she does which is pretty unlikely, I think it'll be later and not at such an unconvinient time.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of paleogymnast

    paleogymnast

    [5]Mar 16, 2008
    • member since: 01/19/07
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 8,343

    Somehow I think the reason we didn't see Dean visit Cassie is more because it would hurt too much, or she would hurt him too much. Unlike Lisa and possibily some of the old hookups Dean visited, Cassie wasn't a purely happy memory. She was all tied up in pain, confusion, rejection, self-loathing, loss, and loneliness... not exactly something Dean would try to relive or recapture. I don't think we've really seen Dean go around saying "goodbye" to people either. I'm not sure that's something he would want to do. Not because he doesn't think he's going to die, but because that's the kind of emotionally uncomfortable, vulnerable chick flick moment Dean desperately tries to avoid... and with so much out of his control and his constant need to be in control, doing something like visiting Cassie or saying goodbye to other people is not something he would do. It's something he would avoid.

    Take Lisa as an example. Dean went to visit Lisa because she was a really great lay from back when he was not-quite 20. They had some wild sex and a lot of fun, and it was something hedonistic, positive, and unrestrained that he wanted to loose himself in... of course, when he got to Cicero, IN, what he found was something much more profound... a kid that either might be his or might be someone he could be a father to, a more mature, restrained, loving Lisa, and a lot of reasons to remember why he always saved people and hunted things and even more reasons to regret or rather wish he wasn't going to die. Lisa is the represenation of a mature relationship Dean could have had and would have wanted had his life been different. So, now she's his fantasy, the beautiful lie he retreats to in his mind. Cassie, couldn't be that. Even if their relationship had been more positive or if she had been more understanding of what he did (because even the second time around, she just wasn't fitting in that world) and why he did it, Dean and Cassie weren't that type of couple... they were a much more immature, inexperienced, first love kind of mess.

    So, while I'm sure Dean is thinking about her, I doubt he'd visit Cassie to say goodbye.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [6]Mar 16, 2008
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    I can go along with that. Seeing Lisa wasn't saying good bye it was perhaps one last great fling before he buckled down to the war and went out with a bang (no pun intended). I also agree the idea of her and that life (not so much the REAL her and her life, the IDEA) is what he's latched on to now and why he dreams of her. It's not because he wants her but the life she is a symbol of.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zunshine

    zunshine

    [7]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 08/14/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 113

    pumacat7,:

    Guess you are right (the strike did affect us more than one way) but I think there could be like 3 sec of him at least leaving a message or something. To me that is just the typical human nature.

    hikinggirl70:

    I agree with "paleogymnast" in that the reason Dean hasn't visited Cassie so far is probably because its easier to hooking up with old flames that didn't mean anything than rehashing the past with someone that meant more than one nightstand. Hence to why I said that though it is very typical of Dean to try to have as much fun as possible in the beginning things are slightly different/murky for him now... so to me it would only be natural to take things seriously (which we are beginning to see him do) and leave without any regrets.

    ToxicAngel503

    I didn't mean he should spend his final hours with Cassie (definitely not!... that so should be a Sammy&Dean moment for better or worst I wouldn't want it any other way). However, I do agree with you that this might be an inconvenient time for Cassie to show up... my suggestion is to only make a subtle indication of him doing something to reach out, something we all (even tough guys like Dean) would do in time of despair.

    paleogymnast

    Yes. Cassie did scar Dean for life, very true. I think in the end Cassie understood that hunting was his fate and let him go because she knew she would stand in his way... or else she would have been another person for him to protect, to worry about (and very possibly someone the demons & what not, could posses/capture to get to him, etc). Hence it could be claimed that for his own good (and even her own) it was best for her to stay out of his life. Because she did say they could try to make it work but he replied that he was still very much involved in his "dad's work". Anyways, I do agree that Dean and Cassie had the "first love kind of mess" but then again many have had it yet ended up with their first love and Dean hasn't been quite close with anyone as he had been with Cassie ever since (and he has had plenty of opportunities).

    I didn't mean Dean should go telling people good bye... pity me kind of way (because that would be more than a corny chick flick moment and I most definitely don't want that.). I'm only saying that if you know you might be dying you would want to see the one you loved one last time, despite the good/bad times you might have been through together (again this applies even to tough/macho guys like Dean since in the end he's only human). I just think it would add another depth to Dean's crises (... another layer to the story). She doesn't even need to be on the show (he doesn't need to go visit her) but it could be indicated implicitly by some other way... that would make things more realistic. No matter how much one would like to avoid something in the end "you can run but you can't hide" as in this case one's feelings.

    Just a thought

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [8]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 08/17/07
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 13,423
    Then let him reach out to Bobby. We all could use a little Bobby love!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of hikinggirl70

    hikinggirl70

    [9]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 08/14/07
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 2,474

    ToxicAngel503 wrote:
    Then let him reach out to Bobby. We all could use a little Bobby love!

    I second that motion.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zunshine

    zunshine

    [10]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 08/14/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 113
    ToxicAngel503 wrote:
    Then let him reach out to Bobby. We all could use a little Bobby love!
    You're hilirious! Although Dean kinda did that in Dream a Little Dream with the whole "you're like a father to me" ... however it wasn't quite the kind of loved one I was implying
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ToxicAngel503

    ToxicAngel503

    [11]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 08/17/07
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 13,423
    I know, but the only one he's ever truly loved that we know of is Cassie and I see that as a closed door. And he could see Lisa, but I can't see him putting himself in the position to go through the awkwardness of explaining this to her. Besides, that's what that first visit was intended to be, why would he do that again?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of pumacat7

    pumacat7

    [12]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 02/06/08
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 919
    hikinggirl70 wrote:

    ToxicAngel503 wrote:
    Then let him reach out to Bobby. We all could use a little Bobby love!

    I second that motion.

    I guess I always assumed Bobby with be there in the final episode - don't ya think?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of fplaci1

    fplaci1

    [13]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 07/13/07
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 261
    zunshine wrote:

    I get that the boys are in a state of war against "evil" while at the same time they are attempting of saving Dean from going to hell. Since Dean situation seems to be more and more grim with dear ole Bella stealing the cult (that probably could have been used to kill the demon contractor or at least used as a leverage, etc) and Ruby admitting to Dean she can't really save him etc. Dean might have to die & become a demon himself (I shiver at the thought of it! but it looks like it might happen much to my dismay)... Anyways someone had a thread of what Dean might do on his last day, we have already seen what he has been doing over the past "year"... enjoying life as much as possible by doing all these crazy things as well as calling up a couple of his old flames, etc However, since his run in with Lisa and realizing some of the things he never got to experience and would now be missing out on... I think it would only be natural for him to go back to the one he loved?

    Like a soldier going to fight in a war where he might be killed or like someone whose dying of an illness shouldn't he be saying farewell to his one true love or at least try to see her one last time? Now I know all of the haters going to jump on me for daring to suggest that the writers should bring back Cassie and provide some form of closure to her character once and for all. Especially, since things were left on Dean's note: ''I'll see you again Cassie, I will'' to me it felt like he really meant it and I would hate to believe that Dean is not a man of his words

    Some may disagree and say that he is over her, I beg to differ I think the only reason we never heard Dean mention her ever since has to do with the fact that she was his weak spot (with exception to Dean's fear of flying and his family). One could tell from when they sadly departed how deeply Dean was affected by it that he wasn't willing to even address it. As we are all aware of, Dean doesn't allow himself to show such tender and affectionate emotions that easily. Hence I think she is still stashed somewhere in the back of his mind (especially with him now possibly "dying"). It would only be logical, in my opinion to have him say his good bye to the one lady in his life that wasn't a mere one night stand. This is why it would be interesting to bring Cassie back in season 3, like they have done with the other of the characters.

    Now the question isn't whether you liked Cassie or not, but story wise is it not only reasonable that Dean would think of reaching out to her either in/directly in his coming final days?

    Hmmmm... I think Dean was about 20 when he met with Lisa. If I remember right, his dad had let him travel by himself to let him spread his wings (I guess.)

    He was still young (barely legal) when he and Lisa hook-up. He knew that he'd be going back to his dad and Sammy, so falling in love was the last thing on his mind with Lisa.

    When he met Cassie, he was much older. If Sam left for college when he was 17, then Dean would have been 21. So, he could have been between the ages of 21 and 25 since we don't know exactly when they met (only that Sam was at Stanford at the time.)

    When he met Cassie, he fell head over heals for her, had a relationship with her, and told her about the "family business."

    After their sexual encounter, they're talking in bed. Cassie asked him why he told her about his "family business" to which he replied that he didn't know (along with "I could never lie to you.")

    When leaving Lisa, she told him that he could stay with her for a couple of days, he told her that he can't because her life was not his.

    When leaving Cassie, he promised her that he would come back. However, Cassie stated that she was a realist. She knew she had to let him go because of his job.

    Even though he promised that he would be back after she ended their rekindled relationship, he knew that she was probably right (50 ways to leave your lover, anyone?)

    So, I think Dean loved Cassie whereas Lisa was only a fling. However, if Ben turned out to be his, I think Dean would step up to the plate, try to take some responsibility (no matter how small it would be.)

    However, I do wonder if he and Cassie were to meet again before his time is up, what he would say to her

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zunshine

    zunshine

    [14]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 08/14/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 113
    fplaci1 wrote:

    When he met Cassie, he was much older. If Sam left for college when he was 17, then Dean would have been 21. So, he could have been between the ages of 21 and 25 since we don't know exactly when they met (only that Sam was at Stanford at the time.)

    When he met Cassie, he fell head over heals for her, had a relationship with her, and told her about the "family business."

    After their sexual encounter, they're talking in bed. Cassie asked him why he told her about his "family business" to which he replied that he didn't know (along with "I could never lie to you.")

    When leaving Lisa, she told him that he could stay with her for a couple of days, he told her that he can't because her life was not his.

    When leaving Cassie, he promised her that he would come back. However, Cassie stated that she was a realist. She knew she had to let him go because of his job.

    Even though he promised that he would be back after she ended their rekindled relationship, he knew that she was probably right (50 ways to leave your lover, anyone?)

    However, I do wonder if he and Cassie were to meet again before his time is up, what he would say to her

    Yup, I wonder about that too and for the record I'm not excepting her to be a cast member or anything as that would seriously undermine what the show is all about but I'm only suggesting they ought to bring some kind of closure to her character (hence the title of the topic).

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zunshine

    zunshine

    [15]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 08/14/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 113
    ToxicAngel503 wrote:
    I know, but the only one he's ever truly loved that we know of is Cassie and I see that as a closed door. And he could see Lisa, but I can't see him putting himself in the position to go through the awkwardness of explaining this to her. Besides, that's what that first visit was intended to be, why would he do that again?
    I don't think you guys get what I mean. Let me put it this way... for sake of argument lets say Sam never joined Dean to go hunting (period) and after 3years Dean is diagnosed with some terminal illness... now it is very unlikely he would go and tell him outright that he's dying etc but he would be calling (at least) to Sam to see how is doing and so forth. That is kinda what I mean
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [16]Mar 17, 2008
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Yeah but it kind of looks to me like they've done that already. Dean wanted them to try, she didn't see it working, he got in the car and left. He seemed to still be determined and Dean does have a hard time letting go when he wants something but I think perhaps once some time had passed and he had time to think he might have come to the same conclusion that she did. As for Lisa, that's pretty much closed too. I also don't think for a second they have any intention whatsoever of seriously revisiting that issue meaning the kid isn't going to suddenly turn out to be his and outside another trip to dreamland or some demon trick we're not going to see her or the kid again. I really think if they have any intent of having him settling down to a normal life (at the end of the series) it will be with someone brand new that he (or we) have not met yet. They're going to have the experience of falling in love for real before our eyes and he will make a family with her from scratch and be there for whole thing. The whole instant family, just add Dean, thing feels like a cheat and this show doesn't cheat.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of paleogymnast

    paleogymnast

    [17]Mar 18, 2008
    • member since: 01/19/07
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 8,343
    zunshine wrote:
    *snip*

    paleogymnast

    Yes. Cassie did scar Dean for life, very true. I think in the end Cassie understood that hunting was his fate and let him go because she knew she would stand in his way... or else she would have been another person for him to protect, to worry about (and very possibly someone the demons & what not, could posses/capture to get to him, etc). Hence it could be claimed that for his own good (and even her own) it was best for her to stay out of his life. Because she did say they could try to make it work but he replied that he was still very much involved in his "dad's work". Anyways, I do agree that Dean and Cassie had the "first love kind of mess" but then again many have had it yet ended up with their first love and Dean hasn't been quite close with anyone as he had been with Cassie ever since (and he has had plenty of opportunities). Yes, many people (or at least some people) do end up with their "first love"... my point wasn't to say that first loves are always a mess, but that Dean and Cassie's relationship was one of those very messy ones that sometimes come up with your first love. There's a lot of self-discovery involved on the part of both parties and often a lot of very unclear expectations which can all too often lead to broken hearts and much angst. And that's pretty much what happened between Dean and Cassie. When they met the second time around, they definitely still had the chemistry, but were mature and self-aware enough at that point to recognize that sometimes even the best of chemistry and honest loving feelings can still be a bad, bad, very bad idea, and in their case, exactly for the reasons you stated. I don't think Cassie ever quite got the full *why* behind Dean's crusade, but she did understand/recognize that it was his life's mission and that she didn't fit in his world and that neither of them was going to change to suit the other.

    I didn't mean Dean should go telling people good bye... (I understood that, sorry that I wasn't more specific with my point) pity me kind of way (because that would be more than a corny chick flick moment and I most definitely don't want that.). I'm only saying that if you know you might be dying you would want to see the one you loved one last time, despite the good/bad times you might have been through together (again this applies even to tough/macho guys like Dean since in the end he's only human). (Ah, but it has nothing to do with Dean's toughness... that's all a silly facade anyway.) I just think it would add another depth to Dean's crises (... another layer to the story). She doesn't even need to be on the show (he doesn't need to go visit her) but it could be indicated implicitly by some other way... that would make things more realistic. No matter how much one would like to avoid something in the end "you can run but you can't hide" as in this case one's feelings.

    Just a thought

    Dean isn't the kind of person to visit people to say good-bye even (or perhaps especially) in the "I love you and I want to see you one last time" fashion... at least not outside of very, very specific exceptions. I get the feeling that depending on his mood, he might even try to avoid Sam and/or Bobby at the very end (and definitely leave it at a "see you around" rather than anything definite)--but that's a question open for much discussion and totally beside my point.

    Here, I'm saying that seeing people one last time would put Dean in an incredibly emotionally vunlerable, naked, and out-of-control situation. That's something he shies away from under the best of circumstances, not because he doesn't feel emotions very deeply or because he actualy is some big brutish "tough guy," but rather the whole reason for his persona and his insistance on "no chick flick moments" is because he is very, very private with his emotions. He is not comfortable expressing or showing them in front of others (Sam and Bobby being pretty much the only ones who get close enough on a regular basis to actually see what's going on). Doing so is painful in and of itself. Worse than that, in his present situation, he's completely lacking in control in so many ways (he is going to die and there's nothing he can do about it; he's going to leave his brother behind and there's nothing he can do about it; his brother may be going to the darkside and there's nothing he can do about it; he's leaving the job undone and there's nothing he can do about it; it's all finite, certain, and his life at the very least is completely out of his hands). So, while it's very tempting (and at least in some cases necessary) to see some loved ones one last time, for Dean, it's an incredibly painful and out-of-control prospect. (That's why he played for so very long as if nothing was happening... it's not just denial or hedonism, but rather facing his death with seriousness, certainty, and helping Sam plan for life beyond that... that's almost like selling his soul all over again for the amount of control he has to give up, the vulnerability he feels, and the amount of inependent pain it causes.) So, I just don't see him seeing Cassie one last time. They left it on a fairly neutral or at least not bad note with some mutual understanding between them. It wouldn't be beneficial to Dean in anyway to see her again. It would open a new can of worms emotionally, put Cassie in a very awkward and uncomfortble place, an probably leave Dean feeling even more frustration with the brevity and course of his life. So, I think he'd be more likely to just leave it with the fairly happy (or at least not abjectly miserable) memory of their last meeting.

    Replying directly to your thoughts above in blue...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of paleogymnast

    paleogymnast

    [18]Mar 18, 2008
    • member since: 01/19/07
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 8,343

    zunshine wrote:
    ToxicAngel503 wrote:
    I know, but the only one he's ever truly loved that we know of is Cassie and I see that as a closed door. And he could see Lisa, but I can't see him putting himself in the position to go through the awkwardness of explaining this to her. Besides, that's what that first visit was intended to be, why would he do that again?
    I don't think you guys get what I mean. Let me put it this way... for sake of argument lets say Sam never joined Dean to go hunting (period) and after 3years Dean is diagnosed with some terminal illness... now it is very unlikely he would go and tell him outright that he's dying etc but he would be calling (at least) to Sam to see how is doing and so forth. That is kinda what I mean

    Yeah, he'd call Sam... but Sam and Cassie aren't even in the same galaxy let alone the same league of importance to Dean.

    And like toxic said, Cassie's a closed door. Yep, Dean said "I'll see you again" but that's one of those non committal "have a nice life" statements you say when you don't necessarily want to walk away, but you know things are never going to work out. (Like Cassie's reply.) Cassie isn't a loose end, but more of a scabbed wound (probaby a pretty decently healed scar at this point)... not a wound that Dean is going to be looking to reopen in his last months. He's got enough closure. It's good enough (never gonna be perfect, because there's alwas gonna be feelings there and it's never gonna work out). There's nothing more to gain by revisiting her.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [19]Mar 18, 2008
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Kind of like when you say you will call but deep down you know you won't or when you and a friend just grow apart and promise to keep in touch but don't. You know when you say these things it's done even if you don't want to say it out loud.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of paleogymnast

    paleogymnast

    [20]Mar 18, 2008
    • member since: 01/19/07
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 8,343
    libra113 wrote:
    Kind of like when you say you will call but deep down you know you won't or when you and a friend just grow apart and promise to keep in touch but don't. You know when you say these things it's done even if you don't want to say it out loud.
    Just like Dean told Jo that he'd call her in BUABS...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.