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Official Discussion Thread: And Then There Was None (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of CharmedOneP391

    CharmedOneP391

    [82]Mar 6, 2011
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    The episode was good..kinda bold to kill off 3 characters in one episode..something about season six of shows and having characters killed off. (the episode "The Candidate" from Lost season 6, "Seeing Red" from Buffy come to mind) but 'And Then There Were None' did seem a little weird throughout..like sam and dean weren't taking it seriously or something..idk. there was something off though.



    When the Mother of All called herself Eve I didn't really know what to think. I expected thats who it was..but the explanation wasn't really there so I guess that's whats frustrating the most out of the episode. I thought about it and kinda figured maybe it has something to do with Eve eating the fruit and technically creating sin...but i dont know how that turns her into the mother of all monsters. Maybe it's from Adam and Eve's kids having kids and so on..eventually created a monster lol.



    overall i'd give the episode an 8.5-9.0 IMO..the best episode of the season so far is 'Appointment in Samarra'. It just sticks out the most to me so far. Hopefully the two hour finale will do this season some justice

    Edited on 03/06/2011 7:08pm
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    RachelleMcAdams

    [83]Mar 6, 2011
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    "I do expect some backstory, cause truth be told, there was none with Lilith. We just let it slide cause there was azazel, lucifer and alaistair with her. But now, Eve is alone. Shes a standalone evilness. Not easy to ignore the missing reasons as to why she would do all of this. But its EVE, and she already gave some sort of hint in this episode--god abandoned her, im guessing after the whole tree & serpent thing--but we need more, a lot more."



    Writers don't liketo answer questions like that, because that could cause a contradiction later, IMHO. But, they would answer that if it'd add depth or drama to an episode.

    Personally, I'd think that those demons would have to be over 2000 years old.



    It was confirmed that Castiel is millions of years old so I would imagine Lucifer and Micheal to be gazillions or trillions years oldUndecided


    Edited on 03/06/2011 7:30pm
    Edited 5 total times.
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  • Avatar of Copioli

    Copioli

    [84]Mar 6, 2011
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    I have two little theories about the nonsensical introduction of the Campbell's only to kill them very quickly.


    1) meta: Public hate them.


    2) in the story: Perhaps they were doomed to purgatory for some reason. So they will help Mary to fight monsters or somethink like that until the kids come to the rescue.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [85]Mar 6, 2011
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    SnarkBC wrote:

    She's not going to get spontaneously better in the course of a few episodes, and I don't think the writing will either.


    Season 6 is a failure.

    Don't watch then.

    She can get better as she understands her character and gets more comfortable with her. The guys weren't exactly all that great as Sam and in Dean in season one but they got better as time passed.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [86]Mar 6, 2011
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    Ok...so,


    -I'll eat my words and accept that she's Eve, I mean, after all this isnt Naruto where people go around calling themselves Madara who are not Madara, so fine. Eve. Right. Castiel's comment that the bible is wrong sometimes can't always be the scapegoat.


    - On the upside, Dean finally called her Big Momma!! I am completely satisfied.


    - Ok, so, what I said before about her being a mix of others, well, they did Mix Eve with Lilith, since it is AFTER ALL Lilith the one who creates demons in the bible... >_>


    - They cannot get away with saying, "yep, Im eve." no. It cannot be that cut and dried. Eve was not evil, nor wronged any more than Adam, unlike Lilith. I am thinking that maybe the writers will do this: when adam and eve "ate" from the "fruit" its actually metaphors for entering purgatory, or being banished to it by god for "eating the fruit".


    - I am very much expecting Adam, maybe Adam is one of the things that she wants released from Purgatory? O.o Could be interesting, to say the least.


    - New monsters....not a bad thought.


    - The most important thing is; why and why now? Answer me this, and I will be satisfied with whatever they throw at me.

    Eve was SO wronged in the Bible. She's blamed for the world being the way it is today (if Eve had not tricked Adam into eating from the tree we would all be living in a paradise today and all suffering and discomfort in the world is all her fault). If that's not being wronged I don't know what is.

    It's not like she willfilly did what she did, she was tricked and then scapegoated and used as a symbol of the 'faliure' of women in the eyes of the church for centeries. Can't imagine she wouldn't want to rip the world apart.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [87]Mar 6, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    - On the upside, Dean finally called her Big Momma!! I am completely satisfied.



    Lmao, they're totally reading your posts!

    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    - They cannot get away with saying, "yep, Im eve." no. It cannot be that cut and dried. Eve was not evil, nor wronged any more than Adam, unlike Lilith. I am thinking that maybe the writers will do this: when adam and eve "ate" from the "fruit" its actually metaphors for entering purgatory, or being banished to it by god for "eating the fruit".



    I agree. They tried to mitigate it with Grandpa explaining the story (btw, how does grandpa know all that - he was basically Bobby's age, when he got killed, so...), still, they should give us more backstory.

    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    - I am very much expecting Adam, maybe Adam is one of the things that she wants released from Purgatory? O.o Could be interesting, to say the least.



    That's an interesting one!! If there's Adam there should be Eve... Maybe Adam is the good one, who will be able to save the world from Eve (kinda like Michael and Lucifer). Though if they made Adam a prick I wouldn't be surprised, they made angels evil

    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    - The most important thing is; why and why now? Answer me this, and I will be satisfied with whatever they throw at me.



    I've asked the same thing. Especially why now?

    ---

    I always forgot to mention. I'm not sure they could do that with electric cable without killing themselves, especially without knowing voltage and whatever. My father's electrical engineer so I have a natural fear of getting near bare cables. I'm not saying it's not possible, still, I'm very suspicious...
    Why now? It's obvious why now: Heaven is in dissray, now that Crowley is gone Hell is looking for a new leader. Neither side is paying attention to what's going on outside their own domains and there was a failed end of the world. Why NOT now?
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [88]Mar 6, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    SnarkBC wrote:

    It's TV. The boys bleed internally every single week.



    Yeah, I know, willing suspense of disbelief and all. And there could be an explanation how it didn't affect them that much, weaker current or whatever. But still a bit too far-fetched for my taste. Not impossible but improbable.
    Well, I accidently did that with a lamp a few years ago and I lived.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [89]Mar 6, 2011
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    CharmedOneP391 wrote:

    The episode was good..kinda bold to kill off 3 characters in one episode..something about season six of shows and having characters killed off. (the episode "The Candidate" from Lost season 6, "Seeing Red" from Buffy come to mind) but 'And Then There Were None' did seem a little weird throughout..like sam and dean weren't taking it seriously or something..idk. there was something off though.



    When the Mother of All called herself Eve I didn't really know what to think. I expected thats who it was..but the explanation wasn't really there so I guess that's whats frustrating the most out of the episode. I thought about it and kinda figured maybe it has something to do with Eve eating the fruit and technically creating sin...but i dont know how that turns her into the mother of all monsters. Maybe it's from Adam and Eve's kids having kids and so on..eventually created a monster lol.



    overall i'd give the episode an 8.5-9.0 IMO..the best episode of the season so far is 'Appointment in Samarra'. It just sticks out the most to me so far. Hopefully the two hour finale will do this season some justice

    We're supposed to be the offsring of Adam and Eve so we would be the monsters (poetic I guess).

    Let's put it this way: eating the forbidden fruit created sin and I guess sin leads to evil which leads to monsters. It's just now she's got a more direct route. Perhaps it's poetic punishment.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [90]Mar 6, 2011
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    RachelleMcAdams wrote:


    "I do expect some backstory, cause truth be told, there was none with Lilith. We just let it slide cause there was azazel, lucifer and alaistair with her. But now, Eve is alone. Shes a standalone evilness. Not easy to ignore the missing reasons as to why she would do all of this. But its EVE, and she already gave some sort of hint in this episode--god abandoned her, im guessing after the whole tree & serpent thing--but we need more, a lot more."



    Writers don't liketo answer questions like that, because that could cause a contradiction later, IMHO. But, they would answer that if it'd add depth or drama to an episode.

    Personally, I'd think that those demons would have to be over 2000 years old.



    It was confirmed that Castiel is millions of years old so I would imagine Lucifer and Micheal to be gazillions or trillions years oldUndecided


    Well writers certainly don't want to give away all the secrets in one episode just like that.

    What happened to letting the story unfold? Finding out little bits here and there? Trying to theorize and work things out on our own?

    I seem to remember a time where, rather than complain that they're not giving us all the explaintions right out of the gate, we would sit around and therorize and sift through the clues and stuff. That was fun in the good old days.
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  • Avatar of Copioli

    Copioli

    [91]Mar 6, 2011
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    Do you happen to know when will Supernatural return?

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [92]Mar 6, 2011
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    Copioli wrote:

    Do you happen to know when will Supernatural return?

    April 15th I THINK.
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  • Avatar of Copioli

    Copioli

    [93]Mar 6, 2011
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    Thank you!

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  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [94]Mar 7, 2011
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    THe posters in this thread brought up interesting points about certain things:

    This show seems to be able to build up events, but fails entirely on delivering them:
    - OMG their father is gone! -> Nah he is just feeling down, let's kill him ^_^
    - OMG something is wrong with Sam! Azazel planned something! => "nah, its just Demonic Idol competition, let's kill azazel so you forget about it all^_^"
    - OMG this ruby knows something about Azazel's plan and supposed AZazel/Lilith rivalry and implies multiple factions in hell?!? -> "nah lets retool the show so you forget about that.
    - OMG lilith is planning something bad and something is REALLY wrong with sam!!!! -> "nah, here lets kill lilith so you forget about her oh and sam was just a junkie".
    - OMG Sam and dean will clash against each other, its impending doom ,how will they solve this terrible terrible inescapable thing! ->"oh hello Adam and four mcguffins".
    - OMG CROWLEY AND PURGATO..."lets kill him.This is not the plot you are looking for"
    - OMG SAMUEL and...."lets kill him.This is not the plot you are looking for"
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [95]Mar 7, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    SnarkBC wrote:

    She's not going to get spontaneously better in the course of a few episodes, and I don't think the writing will either.


    Season 6 is a failure.

    Don't watch then.

    She can get better as she understands her character and gets more comfortable with her. The guys weren't exactly all that great as Sam and in Dean in season one but they got better as time passed.


    She might get better, but given that in SPN you see villains only for glimpses, she won't have many opportunities to do so.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [96]Mar 7, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    Ok...so,


    -I'll eat my words and accept that she's Eve, I mean, after all this isnt Naruto where people go around calling themselves Madara who are not Madara, so fine. Eve. Right. Castiel's comment that the bible is wrong sometimes can't always be the scapegoat.


    - On the upside, Dean finally called her Big Momma!! I am completely satisfied.


    - Ok, so, what I said before about her being a mix of others, well, they did Mix Eve with Lilith, since it is AFTER ALL Lilith the one who creates demons in the bible... >_>


    - They cannot get away with saying, "yep, Im eve." no. It cannot be that cut and dried. Eve was not evil, nor wronged any more than Adam, unlike Lilith. I am thinking that maybe the writers will do this: when adam and eve "ate" from the "fruit" its actually metaphors for entering purgatory, or being banished to it by god for "eating the fruit".


    - I am very much expecting Adam, maybe Adam is one of the things that she wants released from Purgatory? O.o Could be interesting, to say the least.


    - New monsters....not a bad thought.


    - The most important thing is; why and why now? Answer me this, and I will be satisfied with whatever they throw at me.

    Eve was SO wronged in the Bible. She's blamed for the world being the way it is today (if Eve had not tricked Adam into eating from the tree we would all be living in a paradise today and all suffering and discomfort in the world is all her fault). If that's not being wronged I don't know what is.

    It's not like she willfilly did what she did, she was tricked and then scapegoated and used as a symbol of the 'faliure' of women in the eyes of the church for centeries. Can't imagine she wouldn't want to rip the world apart.


    Yeah, but that's in the Bible. Angels in the Bible and in SPN are radically different. We need the show to tell us their version
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [97]Mar 7, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    SnarkBC wrote:

    It's TV. The boys bleed internally every single week.



    Yeah, I know, willing suspense of disbelief and all. And there could be an explanation how it didn't affect them that much, weaker current or whatever. But still a bit too far-fetched for my taste. Not impossible but improbable.
    Well, I accidently did that with a lamp a few years ago and I lived.


    I remember accidentally touching electric heater which pushed a meter back! Accidentally is one thing, but they kept electrocuting themselves persistently! They are miracle workers indeed!

    Remember that Dean got a heart attack in S1 when he got electrocuted.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [98]Mar 7, 2011
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    Kitanishi wrote:
    THe posters in this thread brought up interesting points about certain things:

    This show seems to be able to build up events, but fails entirely on delivering them:
    - OMG their father is gone! -> Nah he is just feeling down, let's kill him ^_^
    - OMG something is wrong with Sam! Azazel planned something! => "nah, its just Demonic Idol competition, let's kill azazel so you forget about it all^_^"
    - OMG this ruby knows something about Azazel's plan and supposed AZazel/Lilith rivalry and implies multiple factions in hell?!? -> "nah lets retool the show so you forget about that.
    - OMG lilith is planning something bad and something is REALLY wrong with sam!!!! -> "nah, here lets kill lilith so you forget about her oh and sam was just a junkie".
    - OMG Sam and dean will clash against each other, its impending doom ,how will they solve this terrible terrible inescapable thing! ->"oh hello Adam and four mcguffins".
    - OMG CROWLEY AND PURGATO..."lets kill him.This is not the plot you are looking for"
    - OMG SAMUEL and...."lets kill him.This is not the plot you are looking for"


    This is very interesting summing up. I think that the thing with Crowley isn't completely dropped, and the biggest hole is in the case of the Campbells. In my humble opinion
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [99]Mar 7, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    SnarkBC wrote:

    She's not going to get spontaneously better in the course of a few episodes, and I don't think the writing will either.


    Season 6 is a failure.

    Don't watch then.

    She can get better as she understands her character and gets more comfortable with her. The guys weren't exactly all that great as Sam and in Dean in season one but they got better as time passed.


    She might get better, but given that in SPN you see villains only for glimpses, she won't have many opportunities to do so.
    True, maybe some of this feedback will get back to the proper people and they will work with her or maybe she will read it herself and work on the character more off camera.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [100]Mar 7, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    Ok...so,


    -I'll eat my words and accept that she's Eve, I mean, after all this isnt Naruto where people go around calling themselves Madara who are not Madara, so fine. Eve. Right. Castiel's comment that the bible is wrong sometimes can't always be the scapegoat.


    - On the upside, Dean finally called her Big Momma!! I am completely satisfied.


    - Ok, so, what I said before about her being a mix of others, well, they did Mix Eve with Lilith, since it is AFTER ALL Lilith the one who creates demons in the bible... >_>


    - They cannot get away with saying, "yep, Im eve." no. It cannot be that cut and dried. Eve was not evil, nor wronged any more than Adam, unlike Lilith. I am thinking that maybe the writers will do this: when adam and eve "ate" from the "fruit" its actually metaphors for entering purgatory, or being banished to it by god for "eating the fruit".


    - I am very much expecting Adam, maybe Adam is one of the things that she wants released from Purgatory? O.o Could be interesting, to say the least.


    - New monsters....not a bad thought.


    - The most important thing is; why and why now? Answer me this, and I will be satisfied with whatever they throw at me.

    Eve was SO wronged in the Bible. She's blamed for the world being the way it is today (if Eve had not tricked Adam into eating from the tree we would all be living in a paradise today and all suffering and discomfort in the world is all her fault). If that's not being wronged I don't know what is.

    It's not like she willfilly did what she did, she was tricked and then scapegoated and used as a symbol of the 'faliure' of women in the eyes of the church for centeries. Can't imagine she wouldn't want to rip the world apart.


    Yeah, but that's in the Bible. Angels in the Bible and in SPN are radically different. We need the show to tell us their version
    Yeah and give it time. We didn't learn anything about Yellow Eyes for a LONG time (didn't even know his name until he was dead). They can't just tell us anything all at once, better to give bits here and there and build to it.
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