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Official Discussion Thread: Caged Heat (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of dman_dustin

    dman_dustin

    [61]Dec 5, 2010
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    jack756 wrote:


    i liked this epsiode but i only like certain parts. as a whole i found it very boring and a waste of my time this didnt really shade any light on anything new.


    I haven't read any posts after this one, so forgive me if I missed the discussion or the hint people noticed.


    But your comment can be countered with "Or did it?"



    Did anyone see the real subtle clue, which I actually think is really important to pay attention to. Now I could be wrong and everything, but what about the scared tattoo girl that was locked up that Dean noticed in the beginning of when they entered the place, and Crowley asked her "Now are going to tell me where Daddy is?"



    I think that girl plays a crucial element to the plot in some way (such as maybe her "father" is an alpha that know where Purgatory is and is willing to reveal its location), otherwise that's one hell of a red herring.

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    cherry_brandy

    [62]Dec 5, 2010
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    That was the Djinn from ep 1 wasn't it?

    libra113 wrote:
    As for Sam and Dean being like they were. Soul or no soul they will NEVER be like they were, that's just not gonna happen. It would be silly and unrealistic to think that ANYTHING could ever make them like they were before. The best that can be hoped for is for them to make some kind of peace with their past and maybe come out the otherside with some kind of relationship.


    I didn't say anything about going back to the way they were, I agree that's not going to happen, but by the end of S5 they had already got back to working together, trusting each other and being brothers again. I'd say they've deffo moved on and forgiven each other and the only thing that's cocked that up is Sam's missing soul, which as far as we know isn't his fault.

    Oh for the record I'm female and I found the pizza pron hilarious. Cas was watching it cos it was there.
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    jkpop_07

    [63]Dec 5, 2010
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    cherry_brandy wrote:
    That was the Djinn from ep 1 wasn't it?

    libra113 wrote:
    As for Sam and Dean being like they were. Soul or no soul they will NEVER be like they were, that's just not gonna happen. It would be silly and unrealistic to think that ANYTHING could ever make them like they were before. The best that can be hoped for is for them to make some kind of peace with their past and maybe come out the otherside with some kind of relationship.


    I didn't say anything about going back to the way they were, I agree that's not going to happen, but by the end of S5 they had already got back to working together, trusting each other and being brothers again. I'd say they've deffo moved on and forgiven each other and the only thing that's cocked that up is Sam's missing soul, which as far as we know isn't his fault.

    Oh for the record I'm female and I found the pizza pron hilarious. Cas was watching it cos it was there.


    I'm girl too but I found Dean's and Sam's reactions to Cas watching porn the hilarious part. Maybe our comedic tastes are differnt.
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  • Avatar of taxcat11

    taxcat11

    [64]Dec 5, 2010
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    dman_dustin wrote:


    jack756 wrote:


    i liked this epsiode but i only like certain parts. as a whole i found it very boring and a waste of my time this didnt really shade any light on anything new.


    I haven't read any posts after this one, so forgive me if I missed the discussion or the hint people noticed.


    But your comment can be countered with "Or did it?"



    Did anyone see the real subtle clue, which I actually think is really important to pay attention to. Now I could be wrong and everything, but what about the scared tattoo girl that was locked up that Dean noticed in the beginning of when they entered the place, and Crowley asked her "Now are going to tell me where Daddy is?"



    I think that girl plays a crucial element to the plot in some way (such as maybe her "father" is an alpha that know where Purgatory is and is willing to reveal its location), otherwise that's one hell of a red herring.



    I am not sure what you mean. The tattoo girl was the djinn from the first episode this season. Her actual father was killed by Dean & Sam, a couple seasons back. So naturally if Crowley referred to her father than it would be the Alpha djinn but why would you find that significant? It is supposedly the whole purpose of the prison, to hold supernatural creatures and question/torture them until they reveal the location of Purgatory. Although why any of them would know the location is strange to begin with. It's not like you could reveal the location of Heaven or Hell so why would "monsters" know where Purgatory is? It is not like they can go there when they want. Really if you wanted to know, I think the best source of information would be the Reapers as they at least seem to know where Heaven/Hell is.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [65]Dec 5, 2010
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    CharmedOneP391 wrote:

    First off..I enjoyed the episode very much. It was one of the best ones this season especially if you compare the quality of 'Caged Heat' to "Exile on Main St'...big difference. Meg and Cas? Umm....ok? I mean sure go for it...as much time as Cas the arch angel spends on Earth the more he's going to experience human desires I guess. and Meg is always horny I'm assuming being a demon and all..



    Is anyone starting to think that Sam's Soul (which is Sam ultimately..right?) isn't actually in the cage...but in Purgatory? I mean what if the cage can't hold human souls..but that would also mean that Adam would have to be in Purgatory too and if Mary is in Purgatory than i would see the whole Sam/Adam/Mary thing being a bit...awkward? Unless they all fight to survive against the monsters who are there. I hope there's an episode explaining just what Purgatory's role in Supernatural is. Is it a gateway to Heaven/Hell? or is Purgatory permanent?



    I liked the episode..Crowley I was pretty much sick of anyway..but was shocked at how quickly his death happened. Like oh damn.. go Cas. and Um..Samuel is an idiot. Mary would want to spend time with her kids after having never seen them since her death and had never been there for them. I think that if Mary were to come back to life..then maybe that would be what would make Sam want his soul back. Idk...this kinda confused me on the arc of the season..it's just like..how are they going to take Sams soul out of the cage which is probably mentally f****d and wouldn't know what to do when he got back to Earth in his own body.


    But if Sam has been in purgatory spending time with his mother and brother that he never got to know would maybe "slip back in" his body easier or somethin?

    Well, the history of this show is not to take the easy out so I assume WHEN or IF he does get his soul back it will have been in the cage all that time and he WILL be mind f'ed and really messed up for a long time. In fact, I doubt he will EVER be the same again and Dean may end up longing for the days when he had the souless, emotionless, Terminator Sam. Still, that's life and that's how the show operates so I'm prepaired to see how that plays out.

    If Purgatory is where monsters go I doubt it's a gateway to Heaven. Crowley said it's Hell adjacent (I guess the next dimension over) but I doubt it's a gateway either way anymore than Hell would be a gateway to Heaven or the other way around. It's a destination just like the others. Good humans go to Heaven, evil ones go to Hell and everything else (i.e. monsters, ghosts, oh my) go to Prugatory and just stay there.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [66]Dec 5, 2010
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    Beecharm3r2 wrote:
    The episode was 'okay' in my opinion. Not great and I was disappointed in a lot of it. I suspected what grampa Sam was doing with Mary. No surprise, and I expected him to chose her over the boys. Not surprised at all.

    Sam - cool stuff with the devil's trap and walking away (also expected).
    Dean - like that he was giving the speech to gramps about learning from their mistakes then the way he killed demon-Christian. Surprised he didn't get upset more near the end about Meg disappearing as she did help kill Ellen and Jo.

    The porn scene with Cas... is this a male thing? I was just like...okay... awkward. Totally out of character especially since there's this big war going on and Cas has TIME to watch porn? He didn't have time to chat with Sam and Dean until Sam was all threatening and lied to Cas about the Ark to get him down there. Cas normally sits there and thinks by himself when he's not doing anything...and he could have talked battle strategy or something with Sam and Dean but what does he do? Watches porn. WTF? I know it was meant to be funny, but I didn't find it at all funny. Just awkward. Plus I noticed on another board that the people that didn't think it was funny were women and the people that thought it WAS funny, were men. Mostly. just an observation. And I want to be clear, I'm not a prude but I didn't get why this was funny. I know Cas is awkward when it comes to stuff like that but I still couldn't get past WHY he was watching it when he could have done all these other things. It seemed weird and out of character.

    As for the big Meg-Cas scene. That was even more awkward and it was one of the most disappointing things I've seen the show do. SERIOUSLY Cas didn't know what she was doing? As soon as I saw Meg kiss her, I knew - "oh she's going for his sword". I mean, really. The old Cas from S4 and even S5 would have shoved her away. I mean, according to previous episodes, like in Heaven and Hell, angels (in that case, Anna) could see the true forms of angels. Anna freaked out saying Ruby was hideous. SO....why would Cas find Meg attractive then if he could see her demon self? It all just felt like a disappointing plot device. Ick. I just can't believe that someone who is thousands of years old would fall for the oldest trick in the book...even if he is clueless about women.

    Then there's that part where Meg is being tortured. Maybe its just me but it felt like this was just an excuse to show some skin. When Ruby was tortured I never got that vibe. This episode though...EVERYTHING felt out of place. What saved it were the scenes where Sam and Dean were fighting together, or on their own.

    That and Crowley. He was cool. Loved how he used the knife to break the devil's trap and loved how Cas killed him.

    Is anyone else wondering about the reference to the Ark? Castiel hurried his butt down there when he thought Sam had spotted it. Which means....someone has the all-powerful Ark of the Covenant? Yikes. I for one would steer clear. I hope they bring this artifact up again in future episodes or at least mention it because otherwise why would Cas be concerned if it wasn't really lost somewhere on Earth?

    Another question I would like to see answered: Do ANY of the characters remember that Adam is in the pit with Lucifer and Michael? He's INNOCENT and in the pit...an innocent person in Hell doesn't happen too often. Is NO one concerned about what's happening to him? Just curious but I really do hope they write him in somehow.

    *Sigh* I'm really disappointed in this episode. It confirms that the writers are getting sloppy and they're just looking for fans to react instead of giving us real story lines that keep characters IN CHARACTER.
    I think you're taking the porn thing WAY too seriously. It was just a case of Sam and Dean doing earthly research with books and stuff and Cas didn't have anything to do in that area so he was flicking through motel tv and stumbled upon the adult channel. He didn't even know what he was watching until Dean told him.

    As for the Meg/Cas stuff, he is unused to the flesh and blood, mortal world, so he doesn't know anything about tricks and lies (remember when Dean was teaching him to lie and didn't even understand WHY anyone would lie, much less HOW to lie). As for trying the kiss himself, guess he was just curious and perhaps angel CAN decided what they see or not (true face and meat suit face and he chose to see her meat suit face since she was handy and she started it).

    Really seems to me, no disrespect or anything, that the people who are complaining are making mountains out of mole hills and are just looking for things to complain about. They WANT to see trouble so they so they see it.

    To me it's all in line with the direction the show has been going in for awhile and now people are complaining becasue they got it in their heads that anything beyound season five is going to be bad so no matter what they do they see it that way.

    I saw this coming when Kripke started running his big mouth about five seasons and I knew then he should have shut his trap becasue he was dooming any other seasons sight unseen which is gravely unfair to the people working so hard to bring us this show week in and week out.

    How would any of you feel if you worked so hard on something and people were complaining about it before they even see it and ragging on it about things that are all in their own heads?

    Sorry, didn't mean to rant but all the whining from various people is getting a bit old.

    Again, I'm not talking to you specifically or anything just taking the first chance to address the issue.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [67]Dec 5, 2010
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    mynameisjohnas wrote:

    Pretty solid episode over all. SPN seems to be getting better and better at intros and I have to gives props for the continuation with Crowley interrogating himself. I have to admit though I'm mixed on my feelings about him dying at the end. On one hand I have to give the writers props for doing it because it was shocking, ballsy and realistic (in the sense that I can't stand keeping or killing characters because the "audience" likes or dislikes them) but I really did love Crowley's character (who I will now, whole heartedly, admit could not have been Death).


    I do have a few questions though.


    1-Doesn't it seem a little strange for Cas, of all people, to have killed Crowley? Granted, he cares about Dean and Sam who were being jerked around and threatened by Crowley who did try and kill them both, but it seemed rather counterintuitive and ill thought out for someone waging a war to keep Lucifer buried. After all, Crowley was trying to keep all of Hell's minions in line who probably didn't like the idea of having to obey the demon who contributed the most to Lucifer's reimprisonment. In parrallel, Cas is trying, and apparently failing, to get enough angels on his side to prevent another angel from releasing Lucifer again. By killing Crowley hasn't Cas essentially handed Raphael that much more leverage to supposedly get Lucifer and Micheal out?


    2- How did Cas find Crowley's bones? I would normally guess that someone Crowley considered an alley might have sold him out but when one considers that it seems unlikely because it's not like Crowley would have trusted any being with that kind of info.


    3- On top of everything I still can't figure out why Crowley would have admitted he couldn't get Sam's soul back when Castiel was threatening to burn his bones. He must have known what would happen if didn't provide an answer that Cas and the boys wanted to hear so unless he just couldn't think straight because he was panicked it seems like a strange moment of honesty.

    Well, it all depends on who shows up next to take control of Hell. Don't be too quick to think the next king/queen of Hell is going want to give over all that nice new power to Lucifer and destory the world when the whole plan fell flat once before and it pretty much Yellow Eyes and his people who were holding the colition of demons in line to start with.

    Given that, by all indications, Cas at full power can travel the entire Earth in seconds (remember he went to the Middle East and back in seconds to get holy oil) he could easily search everywhere on Earth in all the time he was gone. It's always in the last place you look.

    Because lying wouldn't exactly get him anything because they would have made him do it on the spot and when he failed he would have been doomed anyway. It was a true do or die moment and since he couldn't do he had to die.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [68]Dec 5, 2010
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    dman_dustin wrote:

    jack756 wrote:


    i liked this epsiode but i only like certain parts. as a whole i found it very boring and a waste of my time this didnt really shade any light on anything new.


    I haven't read any posts after this one, so forgive me if I missed the discussion or the hint people noticed.


    But your comment can be countered with "Or did it?"



    Did anyone see the real subtle clue, which I actually think is really important to pay attention to. Now I could be wrong and everything, but what about the scared tattoo girl that was locked up that Dean noticed in the beginning of when they entered the place, and Crowley asked her "Now are going to tell me where Daddy is?"



    I think that girl plays a crucial element to the plot in some way (such as maybe her "father" is an alpha that know where Purgatory is and is willing to reveal its location), otherwise that's one hell of a red herring.

    That was the Djinn from "Exile on Main Street" Dean looked at her becasue he, presumably, THOUGHT they had killed her and she was part of the group who TRIED to kill him and ruined the illousion of his happy family home life.

    Could still be something more but at first blush it looks like that was all it was.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [69]Dec 5, 2010
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    cherry_brandy wrote:
    That was the Djinn from ep 1 wasn't it?

    libra113 wrote:
    As for Sam and Dean being like they were. Soul or no soul they will NEVER be like they were, that's just not gonna happen. It would be silly and unrealistic to think that ANYTHING could ever make them like they were before. The best that can be hoped for is for them to make some kind of peace with their past and maybe come out the otherside with some kind of relationship.


    I didn't say anything about going back to the way they were, I agree that's not going to happen, but by the end of S5 they had already got back to working together, trusting each other and being brothers again. I'd say they've deffo moved on and forgiven each other and the only thing that's cocked that up is Sam's missing soul, which as far as we know isn't his fault.

    Oh for the record I'm female and I found the pizza pron hilarious. Cas was watching it cos it was there.
    Sorry guess that part wasn't for you specifially but I've seen a lot of posts whining about wanting them back the way they were.

    As for your points it's MORE than just Sam not having a soul that's bugging Dean. He's angry that Sam was back for a year without telling him, that he hid the no soul the no sleeping thing, that's STILL lying to Dean at every turn, tried to use him to get into the vampire nest and genreally being a using, lying dick. I can see WHY Dean would be angry and wouldn't expect anything less and it would be out of character for Dean to just take all that on the chin and move on as if nothing happened.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [70]Dec 5, 2010
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    taxcat11 wrote:

    dman_dustin wrote:


    jack756 wrote:


    i liked this epsiode but i only like certain parts. as a whole i found it very boring and a waste of my time this didnt really shade any light on anything new.


    I haven't read any posts after this one, so forgive me if I missed the discussion or the hint people noticed.


    But your comment can be countered with "Or did it?"



    Did anyone see the real subtle clue, which I actually think is really important to pay attention to. Now I could be wrong and everything, but what about the scared tattoo girl that was locked up that Dean noticed in the beginning of when they entered the place, and Crowley asked her "Now are going to tell me where Daddy is?"



    I think that girl plays a crucial element to the plot in some way (such as maybe her "father" is an alpha that know where Purgatory is and is willing to reveal its location), otherwise that's one hell of a red herring.



    I am not sure what you mean. The tattoo girl was the djinn from the first episode this season. Her actual father was killed by Dean & Sam, a couple seasons back. So naturally if Crowley referred to her father than it would be the Alpha djinn but why would you find that significant? It is supposedly the whole purpose of the prison, to hold supernatural creatures and question/torture them until they reveal the location of Purgatory. Although why any of them would know the location is strange to begin with. It's not like you could reveal the location of Heaven or Hell so why would "monsters" know where Purgatory is? It is not like they can go there when they want. Really if you wanted to know, I think the best source of information would be the Reapers as they at least seem to know where Heaven/Hell is.

    Actually, I don't recall them stating for sure that the Djinn that they met before was that ones father per se. As for the plan itself the idea is to capture Alphas and have THEM reveal the location (presumably since they're so old they KNOW where it is) or to capture non-Alphas to get to the Alphas for the same reason. As for the Reapers, presumably they only make deliveries to Heaven or Hell and even if they DID know where it was good luck capturing one or even being able to harm one enough to make them tell.

    Sure the preacher's wife in season one was able to bind one but we all know how well that came out and sure Crowley was able to use Death's syth to kill one but Death has that again AND killing them wouldn't get info.
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    RoKC426

    [71]Dec 5, 2010
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    Wonder if Meg's gonna be back. I kinda like her now :p

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    taxcat11

    [72]Dec 5, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    taxcat11 wrote:


    dman_dustin wrote:


    jack756 wrote:


    i liked this epsiode but i only like certain parts. as a whole i found it very boring and a waste of my time this didnt really shade any light on anything new.


    I haven't read any posts after this one, so forgive me if I missed the discussion or the hint people noticed.


    But your comment can be countered with "Or did it?"



    Did anyone see the real subtle clue, which I actually think is really important to pay attention to. Now I could be wrong and everything, but what about the scared tattoo girl that was locked up that Dean noticed in the beginning of when they entered the place, and Crowley asked her "Now are going to tell me where Daddy is?"



    I think that girl plays a crucial element to the plot in some way (such as maybe her "father" is an alpha that know where Purgatory is and is willing to reveal its location), otherwise that's one hell of a red herring.



    I am not sure what you mean. The tattoo girl was the djinn from the first episode this season. Her actual father was killed by Dean & Sam, a couple seasons back. So naturally if Crowley referred to her father than it would be the Alpha djinn but why would you find that significant? It is supposedly the whole purpose of the prison, to hold supernatural creatures and question/torture them until they reveal the location of Purgatory. Although why any of them would know the location is strange to begin with. It's not like you could reveal the location of Heaven or Hell so why would "monsters" know where Purgatory is? It is not like they can go there when they want. Really if you wanted to know, I think the best source of information would be the Reapers as they at least seem to know where Heaven/Hell is.


    Actually, I don't recall them stating for sure that the Djinn that they met before was that ones father per se. As for the plan itself the idea is to capture Alphas and have THEM reveal the location (presumably since they're so old they KNOW where it is) or to capture non-Alphas to get to the Alphas for the same reason. As for the Reapers, presumably they only make deliveries to Heaven or Hell and even if they DID know where it was good luck capturing one or even being able to harm one enough to make them tell. Sure the preacher's wife in season one was able to bind one but we all know how well that came out and sure Crowley was able to use Death's syth to kill one but Death has that again AND killing them wouldn't get info.


    I fail to see why being an Alpha would mean you know where Purgatory is - as you haven't been there or anywhere else in the afterlife - if it comes to that an Angel or one of the original Demons (fallen Angels) would have a better idea since they are older then any Alpha - at least those with a human beginning. Even fairies would be a better bet, if the Leprechaun can be believed - if you can get into Lucifer's cage, you should be able to find something the size of Purgatory. BTW if Lucifer's cage is not in Hell proper, could it be in Purgatory?

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    Copioli

    [73]Dec 5, 2010
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    I think something weird is happening to Cas. Perhaps his control over his host is weakening. I don't know. But I see him becoming more human. As someone said before, he is not supposed to found Meg attractive. So what happened? I think his body reacted by itself, wanting a woman.


    Besides, the whole Crowley's thing was...a little weird too. "Your remains were not so well hide". Really? Did Crowley let his bones in a place not angel-protected? Why would he?


    BTW, grandpa is a douchebag. Any caring mother would rather die than have one of her children soulless or even death. Besides, he has been living a year without her daughter, he could have been used to it by now. He is a hunter, a tough one. So he should be prepared to loose his loved ones. Of course, that was supposed to make him awfully sad, but not to make him a traitor to his other relatives.


    A last thing. I agree that this show seems to have forgotten Adam. And that is just wrong. I think Adam and Sam's souls are defending themselves, making bonds. And Lucifer will be more concerned fighting his brother than the two humans.



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    CaptainHarkness

    [74]Dec 5, 2010
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    I can't help but wonder who is going to step up and take over Hell now that Crowley is dead? Meg maybe? Or someone new? I can't wait to find out.


    I must admit the new actress they have for Meg that they've been using has grown on me. I didn't like her at first but I really don't mind her now.


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    libra113

    [75]Dec 5, 2010
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    taxcat11 wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    taxcat11 wrote:


    dman_dustin wrote:


    jack756 wrote:


    i liked this epsiode but i only like certain parts. as a whole i found it very boring and a waste of my time this didnt really shade any light on anything new.


    I haven't read any posts after this one, so forgive me if I missed the discussion or the hint people noticed.


    But your comment can be countered with "Or did it?"



    Did anyone see the real subtle clue, which I actually think is really important to pay attention to. Now I could be wrong and everything, but what about the scared tattoo girl that was locked up that Dean noticed in the beginning of when they entered the place, and Crowley asked her "Now are going to tell me where Daddy is?"



    I think that girl plays a crucial element to the plot in some way (such as maybe her "father" is an alpha that know where Purgatory is and is willing to reveal its location), otherwise that's one hell of a red herring.



    I am not sure what you mean. The tattoo girl was the djinn from the first episode this season. Her actual father was killed by Dean & Sam, a couple seasons back. So naturally if Crowley referred to her father than it would be the Alpha djinn but why would you find that significant? It is supposedly the whole purpose of the prison, to hold supernatural creatures and question/torture them until they reveal the location of Purgatory. Although why any of them would know the location is strange to begin with. It's not like you could reveal the location of Heaven or Hell so why would "monsters" know where Purgatory is? It is not like they can go there when they want. Really if you wanted to know, I think the best source of information would be the Reapers as they at least seem to know where Heaven/Hell is.


    Actually, I don't recall them stating for sure that the Djinn that they met before was that ones father per se. As for the plan itself the idea is to capture Alphas and have THEM reveal the location (presumably since they're so old they KNOW where it is) or to capture non-Alphas to get to the Alphas for the same reason. As for the Reapers, presumably they only make deliveries to Heaven or Hell and even if they DID know where it was good luck capturing one or even being able to harm one enough to make them tell. Sure the preacher's wife in season one was able to bind one but we all know how well that came out and sure Crowley was able to use Death's syth to kill one but Death has that again AND killing them wouldn't get info.


    I fail to see why being an Alpha would mean you know where Purgatory is - as you haven't been there or anywhere else in the afterlife - if it comes to that an Angel or one of the original Demons (fallen Angels) would have a better idea since they are older then any Alpha - at least those with a human beginning. Even fairies would be a better bet, if the Leprechaun can be believed - if you can get into Lucifer's cage, you should be able to find something the size of Purgatory. BTW if Lucifer's cage is not in Hell proper, could it be in Purgatory?

    I don't think they are. A lot of monster lore pre dates Christianity so I suspect the Alphas predate God and angels and Lucifer and Hell. They may be somewhere between all that and Death on the age scale. Being so old they probably have first hand knowledge of Purgatory itself and it seems everyone else has forgotten (or never knew) exactly where it is so the Alphas are the only lead. It's also unlikey that God or the angels would have told Crowley where it was even if they DID know and since he was bucking the whole Lucifer thing the oldest demons (even if they knew) wouldn't tell him either.

    I think the "Lepracaun" movies pretty prove you can't trust thoes things.

    From what they've been saying Lucifer's cage IS in Hell, just a region that is blocked and unreachable through Hell itself. I doubt it's in Purgatory since that wouldn't really track.
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    libra113

    [76]Dec 5, 2010
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    Copioli wrote:

    I think something weird is happening to Cas. Perhaps his control over his host is weakening. I don't know. But I see him becoming more human. As someone said before, he is not supposed to found Meg attractive. So what happened? I think his body reacted by itself, wanting a woman.


    Besides, the whole Crowley's thing was...a little weird too. "Your remains were not so well hide". Really? Did Crowley let his bones in a place not angel-protected? Why would he?


    BTW, grandpa is a douchebag. Any caring mother would rather die than have one of her children soulless or even death. Besides, he has been living a year without her daughter, he could have been used to it by now. He is a hunter, a tough one. So he should be prepared to loose his loved ones. Of course, that was supposed to make him awfully sad, but not to make him a traitor to his other relatives.


    A last thing. I agree that this show seems to have forgotten Adam. And that is just wrong. I think Adam and Sam's souls are defending themselves, making bonds. And Lucifer will be more concerned fighting his brother than the two humans.



    Cas has slowly been becoming more human since he first showed up. That's what lead to him being reprogrammed by Heaven (or they tried) and ultimatly lead to him choosing to help Dean over following orders in the first place. As for why he kissed Meg, you gotta remember he doesn't know or understand our world. Porn would give anyone unused to our ways the idea that you respond that way to that situation so when she kissed him he thought the proper response was to react the way the Pizza Guy did in the movie so he kissed her back.

    Why would he protect his bones against angels? It was Sam and Dean who were after them before and he's at war with his own kind not angels. The angels are too busy fighting each other to care about him. He probably didn't anticipate Cas leaving the battlefeild long enough to be a threat, happens when you get too sure of yourself.

    It's not about losing his daughter or about getting used to her not being around it's about her being in a dimension filled with monsters with a grudge for all eternity. You COULD say the same thing about Dean when he sold his soul to pull Sam out (why not just deal and move on) or when Sam TRIED to do the same when Dean was in Hell. Apprently, BOTH sides of the family don't deal with loss too well, meaning Sam and Dean never had a chance. It's very easy to me to see why he would sell out grandsons who are strangers to him for the sake of a daughter he obviously still loves (remember that whatshername the female cousin said he still talks about Mary all the time).

    In ragards to Adam he was still fully possessed by Micheal when he went into the pit. Assuming some sort of automatic ejection effect he's likely still in Adam and he and Lucifer are whaling on Sam's helpless soul even as we speak. It is a bit of a puzzle no one talking about him but I get a feeling that the writers are trying to forget him since they have no further use for his character. It also neatly underscores what Zac told Adam about how Dean would pick Sam over him everytime. Zac may have been a dick but he had a point. Right now all Dean can think about is getting Sam's soul back (when he's not pining over Lisa which hopefully is over by now).
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    libra113

    [77]Dec 5, 2010
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    CaptainHarkness wrote:

    I can't help but wonder who is going to step up and take over Hell now that Crowley is dead? Meg maybe? Or someone new? I can't wait to find out.


    I must admit the new actress they have for Meg that they've been using has grown on me. I didn't like her at first but I really don't mind her now.


    I would gess she was hoping to get Crowley out of the way so she could take over, but I guess that depends on if anyone else decidees to make a run and beats her to it or not.

    Guess it takes time for a new actor/actress to make a role their own especially given the circomstances. I think this new actress is doing a fine job keeping the character in line with past appreances while making it somewhat her own as well.
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    dman_dustin

    [78]Dec 5, 2010
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    taxcat11 wrote:
    I fail to see why being an Alpha would mean you know where Purgatory is - as you haven't been there or anywhere else in the afterlife



    Well think about it, they are the first of their kind, only created by some monster creator mother. And if we assume that this mother is the "God" of Purgatory, then it would make sense for Alphas to know where Purgatory is.



    I mean look at in this perspective:


    God- Angels= Angels know where heaven is.


    Lucifer-Demons= Demons know where hell is.


    "Mother"-Alphas= Wouldn't it make sense for Alphas to know where Purgatory is if in fact the "Mother" is the "God" of Purgatory?

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    libra113

    [79]Dec 5, 2010
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    dman_dustin wrote:

    taxcat11 wrote:
    I fail to see why being an Alpha would mean you know where Purgatory is - as you haven't been there or anywhere else in the afterlife



    Well think about it, they are the first of their kind, only created by some monster creator mother. And if we assume that this mother is the "God" of Purgatory, then it would make sense for Alphas to know where Purgatory is.



    I mean look at in this perspective:


    God- Angels= Angels know where heaven is.


    Lucifer-Demons= Demons know where hell is.


    "Mother"-Alphas= Wouldn't it make sense for Alphas to know where Purgatory is if in fact the "Mother" is the "God" of Purgatory?

    Makes since and even if that's not the case their sheer age would allow them to know things that other creatures (and mere humans) wouldn't be old enough to be aware of.
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    taxcat11

    [80]Dec 5, 2010
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    It is possible that Adam was not with Michael for the confrontation with Lucifer. Usually the vessel could be expected to return to their life after the angel was finished its' mission. But as this was meant to be the end of the world, there really was no reason for Adam to tag along. He could have been left in Heaven and just given Michael his meat suit. Certainly that is a nicer possibility for him if the writers continue to callously ignore him. Which given the caliber of performance of the actor, is just silly. There is no reason why room can not be found for John's youngest as part of the recurring character set.

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