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Official Discussion Thread: Family Matters (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [81]Nov 8, 2010
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    OctoberGirl9 wrote:
    I can't help myself I really do love this season. Can not for the life of me give it up. This ep made me happy...very much so. Sam with no soul lol, sorry but I love that. Crowley coming on back, soo freaking sweet. Since I have a lazy habit of not learning anything about the eps before I see them I get that clean fresh feeling. Seeing the King out and about gave me a sugar rush Purgatory is sexy, just the idea and scope of mythology on the show...sexy. For me though I like to think that the world did end. Just not so literally. Season six, I've come to think about it like a new beginning for the whole universe. Heaven is in chaos and for some reason God refuses to play boss so we get Angels lose across the board. Not to mention Hell going to...Hell and the humans are just stuck in the middle of all these superpowers with no one pulling the strings and the wheels busting off. A clean slate where very few rules still apply and some have changed. I can't put my finger on why I do but thinking this way makes the show tastier for me. Like all things written in fate and destiny are over. There isn't a outline made for this new chapter, and the bosses are struggling for control and scratching their heads waiting for answers. But thats me. Still haven't got my Cas fix, I'm suffering from major withdrawl here folks. Anyway this was a great one and waiting for another week has set my teeth on edge, that's fun when shows do that. Thumbs up and loving it!! out
    You talking about the monsters or the writers there.
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    Copioli

    [82]Nov 8, 2010
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    Data didn't obey the 3 laws, so Sam is very similar to him (eyes and skin aside)
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    OctoberGirl9

    [83]Nov 8, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    OctoberGirl9 wrote:
    I can't help myself I really do love this season. Can not for the life of me give it up. This ep made me happy...very much so. Sam with no soul lol, sorry but I love that. Crowley coming on back, soo freaking sweet. Since I have a lazy habit of not learning anything about the eps before I see them I get that clean fresh feeling. Seeing the King out and about gave me a sugar rush Purgatory is sexy, just the idea and scope of mythology on the show...sexy. For me though I like to think that the world did end. Just not so literally. Season six, I've come to think about it like a new beginning for the whole universe. Heaven is in chaos and for some reason God refuses to play boss so we get Angels lose across the board. Not to mention Hell going to...Hell and the humans are just stuck in the middle of all these superpowers with no one pulling the strings and the wheels busting off. A clean slate where very few rules still apply and some have changed. I can't put my finger on why I do but thinking this way makes the show tastier for me. Like all things written in fate and destiny are over. There isn't a outline made for this new chapter, and the bosses are struggling for control and scratching their heads waiting for answers. But thats me. Still haven't got my Cas fix, I'm suffering from major withdrawl here folks. Anyway this was a great one and waiting for another week has set my teeth on edge, that's fun when shows do that. Thumbs up and loving it!! out
    You talking about the monsters or the writers there.

    Took me a min to get that, maybe a little of both lol.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [84]Nov 8, 2010
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    OctoberGirl9 wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    OctoberGirl9 wrote:
    I can't help myself I really do love this season. Can not for the life of me give it up. This ep made me happy...very much so. Sam with no soul lol, sorry but I love that. Crowley coming on back, soo freaking sweet. Since I have a lazy habit of not learning anything about the eps before I see them I get that clean fresh feeling. Seeing the King out and about gave me a sugar rush Purgatory is sexy, just the idea and scope of mythology on the show...sexy. For me though I like to think that the world did end. Just not so literally. Season six, I've come to think about it like a new beginning for the whole universe. Heaven is in chaos and for some reason God refuses to play boss so we get Angels lose across the board. Not to mention Hell going to...Hell and the humans are just stuck in the middle of all these superpowers with no one pulling the strings and the wheels busting off. A clean slate where very few rules still apply and some have changed. I can't put my finger on why I do but thinking this way makes the show tastier for me. Like all things written in fate and destiny are over. There isn't a outline made for this new chapter, and the bosses are struggling for control and scratching their heads waiting for answers. But thats me. Still haven't got my Cas fix, I'm suffering from major withdrawl here folks. Anyway this was a great one and waiting for another week has set my teeth on edge, that's fun when shows do that. Thumbs up and loving it!! out
    You talking about the monsters or the writers there.

    Took me a min to get that, maybe a little of both lol.
    Yeah, couldn't resist the joke really.
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  • Avatar of xanderodell

    xanderodell

    [85]Nov 9, 2010
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    so what happens to the heavenly weapons and balthazar if this season is about alphas and Sam's soul. they're juggling too much stuff like they don't know what to do next.
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  • Avatar of tobsh

    tobsh

    [86]Nov 9, 2010
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    I think the writers tried to fit too many things into this season because they are afraid of the show being too boring compared to the last season, which, after all, had the apocalypse happening.


    I mean, we got Sam back having no soul, we got civil war in heaven and items from heaven's armory scattered on earth, we got alpha monsters (which is a great idea), we got Crowley being king of hell, we got Crowley mysteriously hinting that Samuel knows much more than we think and, come on, we got friggin' purgatory. These are all really great story lines but in my opinion it's just too much to fit into just 20 or so episodes thus leading to rushed revelations like in this episode.


    Considering all this though, the show's producers still do an awesome job leading these story lines together, but it just seems to me that they - maybe because they think many fans want that - make it epic, epicer, the epicest. I personally could settle with a little lower level of epicness and a nice story buildup throughout the season concentrating on one or two of the above mentioned story lines.


    Just to be clear, I believe for example the horsemen were killed off too fast, too, and I still loved season 5 and season 6 will be great as well. Just maybe not that great.

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    sinjaceheroes

    [87]Nov 9, 2010
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    Roz7 wrote:


    Not sure if this is exactly what you were getting at, but when the Alpha vamp said he had a mother, I was fully expecting one of them to say it was Lillith, since she's referred to as the mother of monsters (the Lilim) in a whole bunch of mythology, and as one of the first humans, (Adam's first wife) who rebelled against god, that would fit in with the idea that demons were originally human, but that there are monsters who aren't and were created/born that way by other demons and monsters. Lillith could be in Purgatory – that would be why the alphas don't want to give away it's location, to protect their mother?



    Well, I would say no. I think that by establishing a separate afterlife from monsters, they (the writers) have separated demons and monsters as two separate species or genus or whatever they wanna call it. So, a demon making monsters and then making an entire separate dimension for them, it just seems like a bit too much for any demon. Its a job only God or God powered being could do.


    That's how I see it, at least. Thus my theory of the Mother being created by God before anything else as a same level, or near, of power companion.

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    basenji529

    [88]Nov 9, 2010
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    I was thinking "Mother" could be something vaguely Lovecraftian. I mean, theoretically it has to be a bigger threat than Satan.


    If Death dies (with strange aeons, of course) I'll know I'm right.*


    *That's a reference to Lovecraft's short story, "The Call of Cthulhu". The in-universe book that is so rare every crackpot has a copy (and being fiction, every crackpot is partially right), the Necronomicon, gives us this charming couplet:


    That which is not dead can eternal lie
    Andwith strange aeons, even death may die


    Every SF/fantasy franchise seems to have a "Lovecraft episode".

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [89]Nov 9, 2010
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    xanderodell wrote:
    so what happens to the heavenly weapons and balthazar if this season is about alphas and Sam's soul. they're juggling too much stuff like they don't know what to do next.
    Maybe it's all interconnected. Maybe, as I've said, Crowley is a front man for Balthazar and he's collecting Alphas. Maybe it's NOT really about Pergatory but about having the Alphas like he has the Heavenily weapons. That or perhaps Bathazar figures he can only hide out on Earth for so long and wants to have a place to run to where no one can find him (since Purgatory seems to be lost). There's also the chance that he's just trying to re-establish the status qou and bring everything back to the way they were in the 'good old days'.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [90]Nov 9, 2010
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    tobsh wrote:

    I think the writers tried to fit too many things into this season because they are afraid of the show being too boring compared to the last season, which, after all, had the apocalypse happening.


    I mean, we got Sam back having no soul, we got civil war in heaven and items from heaven's armory scattered on earth, we got alpha monsters (which is a great idea), we got Crowley being king of hell, we got Crowley mysteriously hinting that Samuel knows much more than we think and, come on, we got friggin' purgatory. These are all really great story lines but in my opinion it's just too much to fit into just 20 or so episodes thus leading to rushed revelations like in this episode.


    Considering all this though, the show's producers still do an awesome job leading these story lines together, but it just seems to me that they - maybe because they think many fans want that - make it epic, epicer, the epicest. I personally could settle with a little lower level of epicness and a nice story buildup throughout the season concentrating on one or two of the above mentioned story lines.


    Just to be clear, I believe for example the horsemen were killed off too fast, too, and I still loved season 5 and season 6 will be great as well. Just maybe not that great.

    Well, I'm not convinced that all this stuff isn't interconnected on some level and I'm also not totally sold that they're planning for just this one season.

    I do surveys online for fun and I did one awhile back for "Supernatural" and all the questions were about what characters you like, what characters you don't and kept talking about additional seasons. Still they ALSO called Crowley an angel so...
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [91]Nov 9, 2010
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    Roz7 wrote:


    Not sure if this is exactly what you were getting at, but when the Alpha vamp said he had a mother, I was fully expecting one of them to say it was Lillith, since she's referred to as the mother of monsters (the Lilim) in a whole bunch of mythology, and as one of the first humans, (Adam's first wife) who rebelled against god, that would fit in with the idea that demons were originally human, but that there are monsters who aren't and were created/born that way by other demons and monsters. Lillith could be in Purgatory – that would be why the alphas don't want to give away it's location, to protect their mother?



    Well, I would say no. I think that by establishing a separate afterlife from monsters, they (the writers) have separated demons and monsters as two separate species or genus or whatever they wanna call it. So, a demon making monsters and then making an entire separate dimension for them, it just seems like a bit too much for any demon. Its a job only God or God powered being could do.


    That's how I see it, at least. Thus my theory of the Mother being created by God before anything else as a same level, or near, of power companion.

    Well, that's a nice thought and all but there's nothing (at least that I know of) in any mythology about a female counterpart to God. There are female goddessess in various myths but, as we've seen, the fallen gods are not anywhere near as powerful as God himself or even the archangels (at least not Lucifer who cut through the gods and goddesses in "Hammer of the Gods" like they were nothing).

    Either they're going to do WAY off book on this one or this mother isn't someone on God's level but someone lesser but near. Maybe another fallen archangel? I know a lot of the other mythologies have mother figures that would fit but again other gods aren't that powerful.
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    sinjaceheroes

    [92]Nov 9, 2010
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    tobsh wrote:


    Just to be clear, I believe for example the horsemen were killed off too fast, too, and I still loved season 5 and season 6 will be great as well. Just maybe not that great.



    My thoughts as well. I dont know why, but so much more could have been done with them. I am still on the thought that the writers themselves were a bit lost on how to do it and kind of went along with it. Too may stand alones were done in that season. :/

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    sinjaceheroes

    [93]Nov 9, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well, that's a nice thought and all but there's nothing (at least that I know of) in any mythology about a female counterpart to God. There are female goddessess in various myths but, as we've seen, the fallen gods are not anywhere near as powerful as God himself or even the archangels (at least not Lucifer who cut through the gods and goddesses in "Hammer of the Gods" like they were nothing). Either they're going to do WAY off book on this one or this mother isn't someone on God's level but someone lesser but near. Maybe another fallen archangel? I know a lot of the other mythologies have mother figures that would fit but again other gods aren't that powerful.


    Well, seeing as they are making Purgatory a dimension instead of a process, Im guessing they could make their own God as well. I know there's a rule in SPN that everything has to have a real life base, as in nothing is completely made up for the show, but Im sure that if good research is done they could find a goddess to make the cut.


    Thing is that as far as I know, God is the only deity that is actually described as being the mightiest and best in everything with no limits, which I say is poor story telling--pardon to those who actually follow the religion--but thats my take on it. On other mythologies Ive read about deities always have boundaries, or at least, they can only govern some territories but not all and every single one. They all have a beginning as well, not just "they have always been and always will be"--which Im glad SPN broke last season after Death's testimony.


    But since the show is so good at altering some things (purgatory, ) then Im sure the Mother theory could come through.


    We'll just have to see and wait.

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    danharr

    [94]Nov 9, 2010
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    Good episode the one we've been waiting for okay no soul for Sam confirmed, grand pa is ridin dirty confirmed, and we now have the basis for a big bad season arc the hunt for Purgatory. I love the way the turn theology on it's head purgatories for monsters not humans nice and the story of Crowley wanting it because hell it's purgatory is perfect. The biggest thing the origin of monsters now this is going to be fun I doubt it's anything we've seen thus far that would be too easy and weak I trust the writers to do better.

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    JoshSutton

    [95]Nov 9, 2010
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    This just doesn't have the awesomeness of the other seasons yet it's had it's moments. I miss Supernatural seasons 1 and 2.
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    libra113

    [96]Nov 9, 2010
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    Well, that's a nice thought and all but there's nothing (at least that I know of) in any mythology about a female counterpart to God. There are female goddessess in various myths but, as we've seen, the fallen gods are not anywhere near as powerful as God himself or even the archangels (at least not Lucifer who cut through the gods and goddesses in "Hammer of the Gods" like they were nothing). Either they're going to do WAY off book on this one or this mother isn't someone on God's level but someone lesser but near. Maybe another fallen archangel? I know a lot of the other mythologies have mother figures that would fit but again other gods aren't that powerful.


    Well, seeing as they are making Purgatory a dimension instead of a process, Im guessing they could make their own God as well. I know there's a rule in SPN that everything has to have a real life base, as in nothing is completely made up for the show, but Im sure that if good research is done they could find a goddess to make the cut.


    Thing is that as far as I know, God is the only deity that is actually described as being the mightiest and best in everything with no limits, which I say is poor story telling--pardon to those who actually follow the religion--but thats my take on it. On other mythologies Ive read about deities always have boundaries, or at least, they can only govern some territories but not all and every single one. They all have a beginning as well, not just "they have always been and always will be"--which Im glad SPN broke last season after Death's testimony.


    But since the show is so good at altering some things (purgatory, ) then Im sure the Mother theory could come through.


    We'll just have to see and wait.

    It's always been my understanding that Purgatory is a place. My understanding is that Purgatory is a place that you go as a step toward either Heaven or Hell. All they've REALLY done is make it monster afterlife instead of that and have it lost to all but the oldest lifeforms (the Alphas).

    Not really sure what deity would be up to creating ALL monsters (even if, as I suspect, it was just a matter of creating the Alphas and letting them loose on the world) AND creating Purgatory as their own privet afterlife. Now maybe they created the Alphas, who created the monsters and was banished to Purgatory for this action and Purgatory was intentionally hidden to keep her out of circulation.
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    WCSU1987

    [97]Nov 9, 2010
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    Definitely hope it will all be interconnected. Balthazar seems vaguely familiar to Crowley. However, I am still wondering where Death is in the show; just left after that one episode. Also, will the Civil War in Hev. have any conflictions going on with everything else.

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    xanderodell

    [98]Nov 9, 2010
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    i kinda loved how they ended Season 5, with Chuck narrating about their 1967 chevy impala till the end where he spoke of what happened to Dean. remove Sam appearing out of nowhere and it was the perfect end. i dont know if they're ever gonna top that or come close to it. and oh, Sam and Dean should really have a bungee strung on their weapons! haha!
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    CJJohanson

    [99]Nov 9, 2010
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    I recently read an interview with Misha stating which characters will be back, and that he will have a more prominant role in the second part of the season. Which to me says thatall the storylinesare going to betied together in a semi-nice bow. At least I hope, just assuming here.


    I, personally, think Crowley is lying about his part in resurrecting Sam and Grandpa, but that doesn't mean he is lying about owning Sams soul. I think it's fairly obvious he's working with someone. He was fairly quick to write off Deans question about how he did bring them back, he seems the type to boast about his powers.


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    presario111

    [100]Nov 10, 2010
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    basenji529 wrote:


    I was thinking "Mother" could be something vaguely Lovecraftian. I mean, theoretically it has to be a bigger threat than Satan.


    If Death dies (with strange aeons, of course) I'll know I'm right.*


    *That's a reference to Lovecraft's short story, "The Call of Cthulhu". The in-universe book that is so rare every crackpot has a copy (and being fiction, every crackpot is partially right), the Necronomicon, gives us this charming couplet:


    That which is not dead can eternal lie
    Andwith strange aeons, even death may die


    Every SF/fantasy franchise seems to have a "Lovecraft episode".



    i would love it if they brought cthulhu or something like that into the story. in human form of course. i mean when i first read some of the lovecraft mythos he describes some of these beings including cthulu as being so terrifying that one look causes instant insanity to bad south park is already having its fun with cthulu. i mean everyone seems to think that monsters origin needs to be related to heaven or hell which they really dont the mother could be something as old or close to as old as god hell wut if its a creation of gods gone wrong like a prototype human or angel. but when i hear the word mother i think of gaia from greek mythology.


    p.s. does anyone think the reason the alphas dont want purgatory found is because opening it or entering it when ur not destined to go there is a bad thing

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