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Official Discussion Thread: How ti Win Friends... (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [61]Nov 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
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    smegmag wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:

    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?



    Hmmmmm,interesting question, I think show has been purposely obscure on the subject, but at least we can try to piece together some things:

    The only angel that's been brought back (I think) is Cas. I think the general consensus is he was brought back by God. However there was the insinuation by Raph that Cas was brought back by Lucifer, which means 1) an angel (or more specifically an arch angel) can bring an angel back or 2) Raph was lying to Cas to confuse him with disinformation. As for demons, I don't think any demon who has been killed has been brought back to life By killed I mean shot by the Colt, killed (distinguish stabbed which didn't kill Alistair) by the Ruby knife, bones burned, smited by an angel or psychically killed by our own demon enhanced Sammy. It is a little unclear if Cas killed Crowley and brought him back, but I personally tend to think they faked the death. So I don't know if it could be done, just that to date nobody who possibly could (God,archangel, angel, Death) has bothered.
    Well, you have to remember that at the time that Raph said that the rebellious angels had fallen under the sway of Zac and the higher ups and they all beleaved that God was dead (in fact Raph said as much himself) so naturally he would just assume that Lucifer rasied Cas because the alternative would be unthinkable to him. I think we have a pretty good idea at this point that he was wrong. As for Cas killing Crowley I'm sure that was staged but I guess it's possible otherwise but I doubt it.
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  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [62]Nov 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 164

    [QUOTE="gatoraderising"]

    WickedNix wrote:


    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?


    [/QU Well Anna thought she could kill Sam and spread his cell's around the The Universe so even Lucifer couldnt bring him back to life. Now if something could do that to a angel or demon maybe Micheal or Lucifer couldnt bring them back.

    I dunno, that was just Anna's theory that she could scatter Sam's atoms so far and wide Lucifer would spend the rest of eternity trying to reassemble him. I say theory because 1) it would be a case of first impression since no one had tried it before(at least I don't think so) and 2) although Anna was a higher level angel she wasn't an archangel and don't know if she really understood the extent of his powers 3) Anna was pretty far gone (Glenn Close) at the time since she also believed her plan to change history would work (which wasn't possible at least before the Apocalypse got derailed) and 4) even if her plan would've worked Sam was/is human and we don't know if angels or demons are made of the type of stuff that can be scattered in a similar manner. I forget, why are we concerned about this? If it's about Cas coming back--if he is dead I'm pretty sure the only one who would bring him back is God. I don't think Michael or Lucifer would be inclined to bring him back if they could. Maybe Death could but I don't think he would be inclined to. However, if he's not dead--we have only the Leviathans word that he is--maybe he's really, really injured and is trying to piece himself back together--I do want him back the way he went out was sad and unworthy. As for Crowley, at some point I want him very, very dead.

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  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [63]Nov 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 164
    libra113 wrote:
    smegmag wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:

    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?



    Hmmmmm,interesting question, I think show has been purposely obscure on the subject, but at least we can try to piece together some things:

    The only angel that's been brought back (I think) is Cas. I think the general consensus is he was brought back by God. However there was the insinuation by Raph that Cas was brought back by Lucifer, which means 1) an angel (or more specifically an arch angel) can bring an angel back or 2) Raph was lying to Cas to confuse him with disinformation. As for demons, I don't think any demon who has been killed has been brought back to life By killed I mean shot by the Colt, killed (distinguish stabbed which didn't kill Alistair) by the Ruby knife, bones burned, smited by an angel or psychically killed by our own demon enhanced Sammy. It is a little unclear if Cas killed Crowley and brought him back, but I personally tend to think they faked the death. So I don't know if it could be done, just that to date nobody who possibly could (God,archangel, angel, Death) has bothered.
    Well, you have to remember that at the time that Raph said that the rebellious angels had fallen under the sway of Zac and the higher ups and they all beleaved that God was dead (in fact Raph said as much himself) so naturally he would just assume that Lucifer rasied Cas because the alternative would be unthinkable to him. I think we have a pretty good idea at this point that he was wrong. As for Cas killing Crowley I'm sure that was staged but I guess it's possible otherwise but I doubt it.


    Agreed can add to previos comment 3) Raph thought Lucifer actually did raise Cas. And yeah I think Cas and Crowley faked the death, just included possibility Cas killed/ raised him to cover all the bases.
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  • Avatar of gatoraderising

    gatoraderising

    [64]Dec 1, 2011
    • member since: 02/23/11
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 431
    [QUOTE="libra113"]
    smegmag wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:

    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?



    Hmmmmm,interesting question, I think show has been purposely obscure on the subject, but at least we can try to piece together some things:

    The only angel that's been brought back (I think) is Cas. I think the general consensus is he was brought back by God. However there was the insinuation by Raph that Cas was brought back by Lucifer, which means 1) an angel (or more specifically an arch angel) can bring an angel back or 2) Raph was lying to Cas to confuse him with disinformation. As for demons, I don't think any demon who has been killed has been brought back to life By killed I mean shot by the Colt, killed (distinguish stabbed which didn't kill Alistair) by the Ruby knife, bones burned, smited by an angel or psychically killed by our own demon enhanced Sammy. It is a little unclear if Cas killed Crowley and brought him back, but I personally tend to think they faked the death. So I don't know if it could be done, just that to date nobody who possibly could (God,archangel, angel, Death) has bothered.
    Well, you have to remember that at the time that Raph said that the rebellious angels had fallen under the sway of Zac and the higher ups and they all beleaved that God was dead (in fact Raph said as much himself) so naturally he would just assume that Lucifer rasied Cas because the alternative would be unthinkable to him. I think we have a pretty good idea at this point that he was wrong. As for Cas killing Crowley I'm sure that was staged but I guess it's possible otherwise but I doubt it. [/Q

    Was it that Raph really thought God was dead when he said that to Cas or the fact that he lost faith in God and was weary of his duties and the fact that he supported Michael and the plan to bring paradise to Earth.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [65]Dec 1, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,385
    [QUOTE="smegmag"]

    gatoraderising wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:


    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?


    [/QU Well Anna thought she could kill Sam and spread his cell's around the The Universe so even Lucifer couldnt bring him back to life. Now if something could do that to a angel or demon maybe Micheal or Lucifer couldnt bring them back.

    I dunno, that was just Anna's theory that she could scatter Sam's atoms so far and wide Lucifer would spend the rest of eternity trying to reassemble him. I say theory because 1) it would be a case of first impression since no one had tried it before(at least I don't think so) and 2) although Anna was a higher level angel she wasn't an archangel and don't know if she really understood the extent of his powers 3) Anna was pretty far gone (Glenn Close) at the time since she also believed her plan to change history would work (which wasn't possible at least before the Apocalypse got derailed) and 4) even if her plan would've worked Sam was/is human and we don't know if angels or demons are made of the type of stuff that can be scattered in a similar manner. I forget, why are we concerned about this? If it's about Cas coming back--if he is dead I'm pretty sure the only one who would bring him back is God. I don't think Michael or Lucifer would be inclined to bring him back if they could. Maybe Death could but I don't think he would be inclined to. However, if he's not dead--we have only the Leviathans word that he is--maybe he's really, really injured and is trying to piece himself back together--I do want him back the way he went out was sad and unworthy. As for Crowley, at some point I want him very, very dead.

    Well, I'm not sure about the not being able to change the past thing. Clearly HUAMNS can't but Cas once described angels as agents of fate and there's a lot of real life lore that seems to suggest that they can at least shape fate if not change it and given how worried Cas was about Anna's plan I gotta think it had a chance of working. Although intrestingly when Anna was trying to kill young Mary her vision kept blurring and she kept missing her shot. That's something that's never been commented on but it would seem to be fate ensuring it's own path.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [66]Dec 1, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,385
    smegmag wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    smegmag wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:

    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?



    Hmmmmm,interesting question, I think show has been purposely obscure on the subject, but at least we can try to piece together some things:

    The only angel that's been brought back (I think) is Cas. I think the general consensus is he was brought back by God. However there was the insinuation by Raph that Cas was brought back by Lucifer, which means 1) an angel (or more specifically an arch angel) can bring an angel back or 2) Raph was lying to Cas to confuse him with disinformation. As for demons, I don't think any demon who has been killed has been brought back to life By killed I mean shot by the Colt, killed (distinguish stabbed which didn't kill Alistair) by the Ruby knife, bones burned, smited by an angel or psychically killed by our own demon enhanced Sammy. It is a little unclear if Cas killed Crowley and brought him back, but I personally tend to think they faked the death. So I don't know if it could be done, just that to date nobody who possibly could (God,archangel, angel, Death) has bothered.
    Well, you have to remember that at the time that Raph said that the rebellious angels had fallen under the sway of Zac and the higher ups and they all beleaved that God was dead (in fact Raph said as much himself) so naturally he would just assume that Lucifer rasied Cas because the alternative would be unthinkable to him. I think we have a pretty good idea at this point that he was wrong. As for Cas killing Crowley I'm sure that was staged but I guess it's possible otherwise but I doubt it.


    Agreed can add to previos comment 3) Raph thought Lucifer actually did raise Cas. And yeah I think Cas and Crowley faked the death, just included possibility Cas killed/ raised him to cover all the bases.
    Yeah for whatever reason Raph seemed so sure that God was dead and remember even Zac was stunned by the mear chance that God brought Cs back from the dead so it's most likely that Raph was just assuming based on faluty information. As for the Cas/Crowley thing. It COULD be that Cas killed him and raised up later. Might actually be easier given Cas' power at the time then just faking it.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [67]Dec 1, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,385
    [QUOTE="gatoraderising"]
    libra113 wrote:
    smegmag wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:

    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?



    Hmmmmm,interesting question, I think show has been purposely obscure on the subject, but at least we can try to piece together some things:

    The only angel that's been brought back (I think) is Cas. I think the general consensus is he was brought back by God. However there was the insinuation by Raph that Cas was brought back by Lucifer, which means 1) an angel (or more specifically an arch angel) can bring an angel back or 2) Raph was lying to Cas to confuse him with disinformation. As for demons, I don't think any demon who has been killed has been brought back to life By killed I mean shot by the Colt, killed (distinguish stabbed which didn't kill Alistair) by the Ruby knife, bones burned, smited by an angel or psychically killed by our own demon enhanced Sammy. It is a little unclear if Cas killed Crowley and brought him back, but I personally tend to think they faked the death. So I don't know if it could be done, just that to date nobody who possibly could (God,archangel, angel, Death) has bothered.
    Well, you have to remember that at the time that Raph said that the rebellious angels had fallen under the sway of Zac and the higher ups and they all beleaved that God was dead (in fact Raph said as much himself) so naturally he would just assume that Lucifer rasied Cas because the alternative would be unthinkable to him. I think we have a pretty good idea at this point that he was wrong. As for Cas killing Crowley I'm sure that was staged but I guess it's possible otherwise but I doubt it. [/Q

    Was it that Raph really thought God was dead when he said that to Cas or the fact that he lost faith in God and was weary of his duties and the fact that he supported Michael and the plan to bring paradise to Earth.
    I don't know he SEEMED convinced and pretty matter of fact about his statement and somewhat suprised Cas beleaved otherwise actually.
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  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [68]Dec 2, 2011
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 4
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    • posts: 164
    libra113 wrote:
    smegmag wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    smegmag wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:

    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?



    Hmmmmm,interesting question, I think show has been purposely obscure on the subject, but at least we can try to piece together some things:

    The only angel that's been brought back (I think) is Cas. I think the general consensus is he was brought back by God. However there was the insinuation by Raph that Cas was brought back by Lucifer, which means 1) an angel (or more specifically an arch angel) can bring an angel back or 2) Raph was lying to Cas to confuse him with disinformation. As for demons, I don't think any demon who has been killed has been brought back to life By killed I mean shot by the Colt, killed (distinguish stabbed which didn't kill Alistair) by the Ruby knife, bones burned, smited by an angel or psychically killed by our own demon enhanced Sammy. It is a little unclear if Cas killed Crowley and brought him back, but I personally tend to think they faked the death. So I don't know if it could be done, just that to date nobody who possibly could (God,archangel, angel, Death) has bothered.
    Well, you have to remember that at the time that Raph said that the rebellious angels had fallen under the sway of Zac and the higher ups and they all beleaved that God was dead (in fact Raph said as much himself) so naturally he would just assume that Lucifer rasied Cas because the alternative would be unthinkable to him. I think we have a pretty good idea at this point that he was wrong. As for Cas killing Crowley I'm sure that was staged but I guess it's possible otherwise but I doubt it.


    Agreed can add to previos comment 3) Raph thought Lucifer actually did raise Cas. And yeah I think Cas and Crowley faked the death, just included possibility Cas killed/ raised him to cover all the bases.
    Yeah for whatever reason Raph seemed so sure that God was dead and remember even Zac was stunned by the mear chance that God brought Cs back from the dead so it's most likely that Raph was just assuming based on faluty information. As for the Cas/Crowley thing. It COULD be that Cas killed him and raised up later. Might actually be easier given Cas' power at the time then just faking it.



    Yeah it might have been easier (don't know for sure since no other demon who had been killed had been brought back--he'd be the first on the show--I really don't even like to think about it because it would raise the spectre of the return of Alistair, Lillith, Ruby I'll admit I kinda would like to see YED again) But mostly I think it's unlikely because Crowley would have to trust Cas to kill him and then BRING HIM BACK--that's a lot of trust especially between a demon and an angel no matter what kind of deal they had going.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [69]Dec 2, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,385
    smegmag wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    smegmag wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    smegmag wrote:
    WickedNix wrote:

    gatoraderising wrote:
    Are you guys talking about in season 6 when Cas said Crowley "If we fail we will die over and over again till the end of time". If so I always thought Cas was talking about Michael or Lucifer killing them and bringing them back over and over. I guess the same thing smegmag said



    Thank you guys for clarifying that for me. Smile One more question...does that mean Cas & Crowley can be permanently killed by other beings and then not even M. or L. can bring them back? I wonder if only Michael and Lucifer have the ability to bring them back after they personally kill them, or do only the upper tierangels have that nifty talent?



    Hmmmmm,interesting question, I think show has been purposely obscure on the subject, but at least we can try to piece together some things:

    The only angel that's been brought back (I think) is Cas. I think the general consensus is he was brought back by God. However there was the insinuation by Raph that Cas was brought back by Lucifer, which means 1) an angel (or more specifically an arch angel) can bring an angel back or 2) Raph was lying to Cas to confuse him with disinformation. As for demons, I don't think any demon who has been killed has been brought back to life By killed I mean shot by the Colt, killed (distinguish stabbed which didn't kill Alistair) by the Ruby knife, bones burned, smited by an angel or psychically killed by our own demon enhanced Sammy. It is a little unclear if Cas killed Crowley and brought him back, but I personally tend to think they faked the death. So I don't know if it could be done, just that to date nobody who possibly could (God,archangel, angel, Death) has bothered.
    Well, you have to remember that at the time that Raph said that the rebellious angels had fallen under the sway of Zac and the higher ups and they all beleaved that God was dead (in fact Raph said as much himself) so naturally he would just assume that Lucifer rasied Cas because the alternative would be unthinkable to him. I think we have a pretty good idea at this point that he was wrong. As for Cas killing Crowley I'm sure that was staged but I guess it's possible otherwise but I doubt it.


    Agreed can add to previos comment 3) Raph thought Lucifer actually did raise Cas. And yeah I think Cas and Crowley faked the death, just included possibility Cas killed/ raised him to cover all the bases.
    Yeah for whatever reason Raph seemed so sure that God was dead and remember even Zac was stunned by the mear chance that God brought Cs back from the dead so it's most likely that Raph was just assuming based on faluty information. As for the Cas/Crowley thing. It COULD be that Cas killed him and raised up later. Might actually be easier given Cas' power at the time then just faking it.


    Yeah it might have been easier (don't know for sure since no other demon who had been killed had been brought back--he'd be the first on the show--I really don't even like to think about it because it would raise the spectre of the return of Alistair, Lillith, Ruby I'll admit I kinda would like to see YED again) But mostly I think it's unlikely because Crowley would have to trust Cas to kill him and then BRING HIM BACK--that's a lot of trust especially between a demon and an angel no matter what kind of deal they had going.
    That's assuming, of course, that Cas gave Crowley a choice. He could have just killed him then brought him back later without even telling him the plan or anything. That would make Crowley's reaction more real.
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [70]Dec 16, 2011
    • member since: 04/30/05
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    Now that was good doubt Bobby is dead and correct me if I'm wrong but did we see the Leviathans withstand the mighty kill everything colt?

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [71]Dec 16, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
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    danharr wrote:

    Now that was good doubt Bobby is dead and correct me if I'm wrong but did we see the Leviathans withstand the mighty kill everything colt?

    No it was just any old antique gun.
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