We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Supernatural Forums

Wednesday 9:00 PM on The CWIn Season

Official Discussion Thread: Mommy Dearest (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of lachlan_j_g

    lachlan_j_g

    [21]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 03/24/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 250

    well it seems the Meg & demon info that i got off the www.supernatural.tv site was completely wrong. that said, I thought that was a fantastic episode - everything is gearing up for one hell of a finale


    very well played writers of supernatural, did not see that one coming at all. Iwas prettysure that Eve would be one of the big bads of the season but she turned out to be good (sort of). 3 episodes, 3 weeks to go!


    so now that Purgatory is wide open I guess Crowley and Cas are gonna get all the souls out of there and use them for energy

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [22]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Sektos wrote:

    Even though Eve was a misdirect it still doesnt mean it wasnt incredibly disappointing! She finally became really interesting for me when she shifted into the Boys' mother and was performed perfectly; calm, caring yet creepy. She (in my opion) obviously shows she ISNT the judeo-christian Eve as she is OLDER than Angels and knows how they tick; hinting at her being more powerful than Lucifer if she could switch him off. BUT...



    ba ba ba bum baaaaaa... nothing


    One little bite and the entire set up for the season in just down the loo.



    I love the twist and i've been expecting "Evil" Cas since the Fate ep, but Crowley too I know i wasnt only one disappointed at him "dieing".



    But to just throw the MOTHER OF ALL MONSTERS and sh*t load of potential mythology out the door with her is definitely a minus for me. I'm hoping she too pulled a Crowley/Gabriel and isn't really dead. The Mother dead by little ash with whisky in blood stream? Bollocks

    I get what you're saying but she wasn't the point and never was really. We (as well as Sam, Dean and Bobby) were supposed to think she was the real threat and be distracted by her while the real threat (Cas) was standing right there 'helping' to keep them distracted.

    She's a footnote, at best.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [23]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Sektos wrote:
    kepa55 wrote:

    OK episode. The twist wasn't that interesting, because I read that Misha Collins apparently wont be in Season Seven, so I figured that either he'll be killed soon or turn evil. Also, there are so many things going on it's hard to be surprised by anything any more.


    All the Buffy references (intentional or not) were great. Shame that Amber's role was so short.



    Thats still a rumor and its only that he won't be a regular. It should be noted that (this i haven't counted myself) its been said that he appeared more often as a guest star in earlier season than a regular lately.

    With Cas praying to god to stop him in the promo it certainly is up in the air what will be happening with Cas
    I hope he makes it through and is a regular next year. I've really become attached to the character and let's face it what he's going through right now isn't that much diffrent than what Sam went through and he didn't get killed off the show or shipped off somewhere.

    Ideally, I would love to seem him stripped of most of his power (not all but most) and forced to make ammends for his actions by helping people on Earth. Although, at the same time, I don't want to see Heaven fall under the control of Raph and the old guard as they've proven they cannot be trusted or run Heaven as they should.

    Perhaps, Heaven needs a new leader, surely someone on Cas' side can step up and take control of what he, in good faith, started.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of yutg25

    yutg25

    [24]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 01/18/11
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 205

    Just watching it now:


    Shotgun Shells called it right. Still don't think it will work.


    My question is why Cas is looking for her? With Raph on the loose you think he'd be busy. Some argue in the Frontierland thread that Cas is in cahoots with her. I know Cas is crossing some lines but I don't think he'll crawl into bed with her. More likely she is in league with Raph.


    What do we call these new ones? I can't even pronounce it or write it down.


    Finished the episode:


    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CAS!


    I thought Cas is like the third Winchester threading the line between good and evil like how Sam was with the demon Blood I didn't think he already jumped in.


    I had my suspicion that Crowley died too easy. He was a great character to die like that.


    It explains why Cas was like that with Bobby in Frontierland. Rachel knew what Cas was doing but when he did it to Bobby he had problems with it.


    I get why Cas did it though. Fact is he needs a supply of Souls to charge up. Besides he and Crowley have a common purpose. If Raph wins he restarts apocalypse Lucy gets out Crowley's a deadman. Everybody dies. Crowley is the lesser evil.


    Of course Cas knows Crowley will double cross him thats why Cas tried to stock up his own supply with the Titanic incident.


    Remember when Balthazaar said Raph consolidated his power and said


    I see what Death was warning about now and Crowley why he got to top management from the crossroads desk.


    Gotta admit Crowley has a great plan Crowley loans Cas his supply so Cas can beat Raph. Cas owes him one; and even if Cas looses with Hell and Purgatories supply he wins against Raph Cas and wins all around.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of yutg25

    yutg25

    [25]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 01/18/11
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 205
    yutg25 wrote:

    Remember when Balthazaar said Raph consolidated his power and said




    Cas went deep deep underground I thought what he hid in hell but didn't think much of it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [26]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    My guess is one of heaven's weapons that Cas got is powered by the souls. We already know they are incredibly powerful due to Cas having them at his beck and call scaring Raphael, an archangel.

    3 guesses:
    1) basically a nuke that'll just basically Nuke alot of heaven and angels
    2) transform Cas into a more powerful being aka a god
    3) Perform a Wrath of Khan Genesis! - wiping out and rebuilding heaven, hell and/or earth
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [27]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    libra113 wrote:
    Sektos wrote:

    Even though Eve was a misdirect it still doesnt mean it wasnt incredibly disappointing! She finally became really interesting for me when she shifted into the Boys' mother and was performed perfectly; calm, caring yet creepy. She (in my opion) obviously shows she ISNT the judeo-christian Eve as she is OLDER than Angels and knows how they tick; hinting at her being more powerful than Lucifer if she could switch him off. BUT...



    ba ba ba bum baaaaaa... nothing


    One little bite and the entire set up for the season in just down the loo.



    I love the twist and i've been expecting "Evil" Cas since the Fate ep, but Crowley too I know i wasnt only one disappointed at him "dieing".



    But to just throw the MOTHER OF ALL MONSTERS and sh*t load of potential mythology out the door with her is definitely a minus for me. I'm hoping she too pulled a Crowley/Gabriel and isn't really dead. The Mother dead by little ash with whisky in blood stream? Bollocks

    I get what you're saying but she wasn't the point and never was really. We (as well as Sam, Dean and Bobby) were supposed to think she was the real threat and be distracted by her while the real threat (Cas) was standing right there 'helping' to keep them distracted.

    She's a footnote, at best.


    I know and I do like that, but I'm still disappointed. It could have been done and still have her FEEL like credible threat before disposing of her.

    PERSONALLY i would have liked a Three-way battle in the finale (it is a two parter after all). With Nxt wk devoted to the Behind the scenes story of Cas this season its not like we didnt have room in the finale. As for Cas, as much as it gets annoying and is a over used Trope (especially in Supernatural), I think we might get either fake-death, actual death that'll be undone eventually, OR imprisonment.

    I really hope that this twist and Cas story plays out well, because Cas as the BAD and soul-nukes have been SHOUTED for awhile now so NO surprise at all. Crowley is GREAT (and he better not be simply killed!) but at this moment (as i type) im honestly not very enthusiastic. Previously (and in many shows) everything "pays off"/"is revealed" in finale or penultimate episode. We've got one more and first part to go, so what are they going to do to rev up to the finale (that cliffhangs apparently) i wonder?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [28]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Well, it SEEMS next week Cas' evil side gets outed and I guess that forces him to go on the offensive more on Earth and of course, last we heard, things aren't going well for him in Heaven either so he's running out of options.

    As for what's going on exactly I'm still thinking he's directly absorbing the souls to increase his own power so he can fight on a more even feild with Raph (remember Raph IS an archangel and Cas, last we heard, is still just an angel and yet he seems, at time, to hold his own).

    Now I'm sure the Heavenly weapons DO play a role (and much less sure that Cas wasn't in on their theft from the start and was just playing dumb about it for Sam and Dean's benifit). However, in what way I can't be sure unless there's something that can end the war but he has to be an archangle (or have the power of one) to turn it on.

    I think it MIGHT be kind of like the Ancient Gene in "Stargate SG-1" and "Stargate Atlantis" where if you don't have the gene (which only some humans do) you can't use their technology. There are HOWEVER levels where you can have limited use without the gene but full power requires it.

    So while anyone can use SOME of the power of say The Staff of Moses (which we saw) in the hands of an archangel the effects are magnified greatly. So yeah it MIGHT be something of that nature.

    Perhaps it's even something as simple as a symbol of power that will cause all the angels and archangels to fall to his side just if he can turn it on and show he can master it's power.

    Then again maybe it's like The Ark of Truth (sorry for all the "Stargate" refrences) and it's something that if he can jus 'turn it on' in his power upped state it will allow all angels to see the truth he's seen and they will turn their backs on Raph becasue they're beeing mislead, or hey maybe it will even recall God to Heaven so he can step in and restore order.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [29]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 11/06/09
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 5,672
    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    NO!


    I am NOT okay with this!


    .....


    They seriously **** up. Yeah. The bleep. That's how much they **** up.




    I'm with you, friend.

    First I want to point out that I have nothing against Eve being just a ploy, and not the real villain of the series. They tricked us, alright. I don't have anything against her being killed this series either. They needed to clear up the space for the real villain, whether it's Raphael, Castiel or Crowley, or some combination thereof.

    I think the twist was good.

    For the first time I also liked the Eve actress, she finally got into her role. And MarEve was also good in the role.

    But the way she was killed. Just like that. You know, a being older than Castiel, probably older than most of angels, so powerful it can disable an angel's powers - killed by biting on Dean's neck. Anti-climactic.

    I regret all the info we probably won't get: about her background, who she really was, her relation to God/angels/demons/monsters; why she is called Eve; if there is actually Adam as a counterpart to her; when did she arrive to this world. I guess we also won't find out much about Purgatory either, as we're told it's not that important, it's about souls. Okay, it's about souls, but what about souls in the Purgatory? What about Mary possibly being in the Purgatory?? What about the possibility to resuscitate some old enemies/demons/monsters from Purgatory.

    What about Purgatory??

    I think they abandoned much of it for nothing. It had such a mythological potential, and after all of us here speculated to no end about Mother of All, she seemed to have the function of distracting our attention. Pretty much like Samuel Campbell was simply killed off, his arc being almost completely pointless.

    Eve's story isn't pointless, but I'm just sorry we didn't learn more.

    Hmmm.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of gamrgrl007

    gamrgrl007

    [30]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 11/16/09
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 848
    dpebbleson wrote:
    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    NO!


    I am NOT okay with this!


    .....


    They seriously **** up. Yeah. The bleep. That's how much they **** up.




    I'm with you, friend.

    First I want to point out that I have nothing against Eve being just a ploy, and not the real villain of the series. They tricked us, alright. I don't have anything against her being killed this series either. They needed to clear up the space for the real villain, whether it's Raphael, Castiel or Crowley, or some combination thereof.

    I think the twist was good.

    For the first time I also liked the Eve actress, she finally got into her role. And MarEve was also good in the role.

    But the way she was killed. Just like that. You know, a being older than Castiel, probably older than most of angels, so powerful it can disable an angel's powers - killed by biting on Dean's neck. Anti-climactic.

    I regret all the info we probably won't get: about her background, who she really was, her relation to God/angels/demons/monsters; why she is called Eve; if there is actually Adam as a counterpart to her; when did she arrive to this world. I guess we also won't find out much about Purgatory either, as we're told it's not that important, it's about souls. Okay, it's about souls, but what about souls in the Purgatory? What about Mary possibly being in the Purgatory?? What about the possibility to resuscitate some old enemies/demons/monsters from Purgatory.

    What about Purgatory??

    I think they abandoned much of it for nothing. It had such a mythological potential, and after all of us here speculated to no end about Mother of All, she seemed to have the function of distracting our attention. Pretty much like Samuel Campbell was simply killed off, his arc being almost completely pointless.

    Eve's story isn't pointless, but I'm just sorry we didn't learn more.

    Hmmm.


    Yup. I liked the twist too, but wham, bam, thank you mom?! Offed just when she perfected her craft? Offed with half an ounce of Phoenix ash? Offed without the boys wanting to know more about the mind-blowing reveal that Crowley was still alive and harvesting souls? Offed in 10 seconds after a 10 episode setup? After 'unplugging' Castiel remotely, she couldn't sniff out Phoenix blood in Dean despite rubbing her nose against his neck? (though I understand that experience can be majorly distracting Sure, I LOVE that Crowley's still out there - I was bummed when he was killed off, and even cooler that he's in some awful plot with Castiel, but Eve was summarily evicted as if she hadn't paid her rent past the grace period. She was a villain, but a counter-villain to the 'real' villains, and should've been kept on as a wild card, if not for the mythology, which of course, had major potential too.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [31]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Well, Purgatory and the souls within are still part of the story, at least I THOUGHT so.

    Isn't Cas and Crowley's ultimate goal to find Purgatory and, presumbably, Cas can use thoes souls as part of his plan.

    If that's the case then the all that is still in play. As for Eve she was just a side effect of what Cas and Crowley were doing and, thanks to Sam, Dean and Bobby, she's no longer a threat and the plan can kick into high gear.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [32]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 11/06/09
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 5,672
    gamrgrl007 wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    NO!


    I am NOT okay with this!


    .....


    They seriously **** up. Yeah. The bleep. That's how much they **** up.




    I'm with you, friend.

    First I want to point out that I have nothing against Eve being just a ploy, and not the real villain of the series. They tricked us, alright. I don't have anything against her being killed this series either. They needed to clear up the space for the real villain, whether it's Raphael, Castiel or Crowley, or some combination thereof.

    I think the twist was good.

    For the first time I also liked the Eve actress, she finally got into her role. And MarEve was also good in the role.

    But the way she was killed. Just like that. You know, a being older than Castiel, probably older than most of angels, so powerful it can disable an angel's powers - killed by biting on Dean's neck. Anti-climactic.

    I regret all the info we probably won't get: about her background, who she really was, her relation to God/angels/demons/monsters; why she is called Eve; if there is actually Adam as a counterpart to her; when did she arrive to this world. I guess we also won't find out much about Purgatory either, as we're told it's not that important, it's about souls. Okay, it's about souls, but what about souls in the Purgatory? What about Mary possibly being in the Purgatory?? What about the possibility to resuscitate some old enemies/demons/monsters from Purgatory.

    What about Purgatory??

    I think they abandoned much of it for nothing. It had such a mythological potential, and after all of us here speculated to no end about Mother of All, she seemed to have the function of distracting our attention. Pretty much like Samuel Campbell was simply killed off, his arc being almost completely pointless.

    Eve's story isn't pointless, but I'm just sorry we didn't learn more.

    Hmmm.


    Yup. I liked the twist too, but wham, bam, thank you mom?! Offed just when she perfected her craft? Offed with half an ounce of Phoenix ash? Offed without the boys wanting to know more about the mind-blowing reveal that Crowley was still alive and harvesting souls? Offed in 10 seconds after a 10 episode setup? After 'unplugging' Castiel remotely, she couldn't sniff out Phoenix blood in Dean despite rubbing her nose against his neck? (though I understand that experience can be majorly distracting Sure, I LOVE that Crowley's still out there - I was bummed when he was killed off, and even cooler that he's in some awful plot with Castiel, but Eve was summarily evicted as if she hadn't paid her rent past the grace period. She was a villain, but a counter-villain to the 'real' villains, and should've been kept on as a wild card, if not for the mythology, which of course, had major potential too.


    Exactly. So much setup wasted...

    It felt like, may you step aside, Mom, let the professionals do the rest of the season

    I was so hoping we learn more about all those things.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [33]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 11/06/09
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 5,672
    libra113 wrote:
    Well, Purgatory and the souls within are still part of the story, at least I THOUGHT so.

    Isn't Cas and Crowley's ultimate goal to find Purgatory and, presumbably, Cas can use thoes souls as part of his plan.

    If that's the case then the all that is still in play. As for Eve she was just a side effect of what Cas and Crowley were doing and, thanks to Sam, Dean and Bobby, she's no longer a threat and the plan can kick into high gear.


    No, no, I don't mean that it wasn't logical or something. I get it - she was a side-effect, I get that the real threat were other villains, possibly Castiel.

    What I think is that we won't really learn much about Purgatory from here on. I may be wrong, though, but I think it's all shifted to souls. Besides, the souls in the Purgatory are different, they are monster-souls so to say. I don't know if it counts the same, but okay, they seem to hold importance for our new dynamic duo.

    I think if the find Purgatory they'll just harvest the souls or something. Crowley might rise to become a yellow-eyed demon or a white-eyed one, Castiel may rise to an archangel. But because of such enormousness it might twist him into new Lucifer, or he may lose all goodness.

    Or god forbid, become Soulless Cas

    Anyways, so much wasted!!! And Mom was killed so so easily. In a tricky and intelligent way, but so easily... They got the powder in one episode (by time-traveling package), and in the next she's gone. I expected more struggle, and also would've wished if she sticked at least to the end of the season to make additional mess of all their lives, especially being so ancient.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [34]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Well, I can understand that I guess but with only three episodes left I don't know if I would want them to spend anymore time on someone who was a just a misderect when they could spend that time on the REAL issues.

    I don't know if she would have been much intrested in being a threat to anyone but Crowley since he was the one she stated she was gunning for the rest was apprently just to get to him.

    I'm really much more intrested in seeing what happenes with Cas than anything they could have done with Mother at this point.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [35]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 11/06/09
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
    • posts: 5,672
    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I can understand that I guess but with only three episodes left I don't know if I would want them to spend anymore time on someone who was a just a misderect when they could spend that time on the REAL issues.

    I don't know if she would have been much intrested in being a threat to anyone but Crowley since he was the one she stated she was gunning for the rest was apprently just to get to him.

    I'm really much more intrested in seeing what happenes with Cas than anything they could have done with Mother at this point.


    I don't know, I'm very interested in mythology, and Purgatory was a new concept to the show, so I was looking forward to discovering its mechanics, and especially how Eve ended up there, how old she was, what kind of being she was, and I just don't think they'll dwell on that in the future, and it's a shame, because I had high hopes for discovering their twist on Purgatory and the story of Adam and Eve.

    Next episode looks awesome though And afterwards we get a two-parter finale after a long time.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [36]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 165

    So what does killing Eve do? Is she dead or did she just get a ticket back to Purgatpry where she's Queen? Can she rustle up some more virgins, perform another ritual and come back--maybe next season?


    Btw, I thought Samantha Smith did a really nice job.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [37]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Well, it's SUPPOSED to kill her for good but given how little we actually know she COULD turn up in Purgatory after all. Might be a way to make people who wanted more information happy.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [38]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 09/28/05
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,145

    smegmag wrote:


    So what does killing Eve do? Is she dead or did she just get a ticket back to Purgatpry where she's Queen? Can she rustle up some more virgins, perform another ritual and come back--maybe next season?



    Btw, I thought Samantha Smith did a really nice job.



    Well like Libra said, she might still turn up in Purgatory. The lore on Eve, Purgatory, and all that was very thin as we've been told all season. The whole using phoenix ash to combat Eve was just two lines in an obscure text. At this point we don't know if it's permanent or not.


    I did enjoy the twist, I think it gives Castiel more depth. It's not like he's the only one on the show who hasn't given into his dark side or justified doing bad things for the greater good. As others have pointed out, Dean tortured souls because he broke and Sam powered up on demon blood. Both of their parents have made deals with demons to protect the family. So on and so forth. The whole point being that like life, most everything isn't as simple as black and white but more like distinguishing between shades of gray.


    I liked the episode,I didn't have problem with how Eve was dispatched and thought it was pretty inventive on Dean's part.


    The preview for next week's episode looks good on providing some more information. After that, it's two week till the two part finale since the two-hour Smallville series finale airs after next week.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [39]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Yeah I see two possibilities: (1) The background and info on Eve was left thin becasue the writers knew it was a decoy and didn't want to waste time going to deep into a dead end OR (2) Eve will come back to bite'em in the end and they're WANT us to think it's the first option.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of poseidondude

    poseidondude

    [40]Apr 30, 2011
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 17
    remember that episode when cas kissed meg? what if he was making a deal then?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.