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Official Discussion Thread: Reading is Fundamental (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [41]May 5, 2012
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    Tyrathius wrote:


    gatoraderising wrote:
    Well Eve's reason to why she could block Cas power was that she was older and knew how angels worked/ticked. So why wouldnt something thats OLDER then Eve know the samething she did.


    Two problems with this. One, it was never actually stated in the show that this was the reason the angels were helpless against the leviathans, and unless it is in one of the next couple, this is just fan speculation.


    Two, assuming it is correct, why does it only work on angels? They're also older than demons and ghosts and witches, but didn't/couldn't nullify them.


    vampman87 wrote:
    mattgus wrote:
    there was a flaw that i can't overlook...the word keeper (and this was a big part of thr story)was to be protected by these angels who were called especially for this and him...soooo,if this word is about and how to kill leviathans why in all creation would he be protected by the one supernatural that is helpless in the face of what he needs protection from. am i missing something or do we just pretend that since we like this series the writers can mess up and we are suppose to look the other way. and yes they will fix it next episode we know that,but............it feels weak or false or lazy...something??? or like i said i am missing somethig syaring me in the face?
    I'm guessing the angels didn't really know about Leviathans or what they could do. Other than Cas, no angel has been on screen with them. I'm guessing the angels believed that there are only 3 realms (Heaven, Earth/our universe, and Hell) and have been trained specifically to fight demons or, if need be, other angels. Hell, if you look at every episode Cas has been in (excluding the monsters that work directly with Lucifer, like the Whore, or the final fight with Eve) Cas has NEVER been on a regular monster hunt. Almost every episode he's been in has him feuding with demons or other angels, even though he was strong enough to wipe out an entire diner full of Jefferson Starships. I'm guessing this is why Edgar was able to take out the angels so easily... they were expecting demons, but they got something far older and stronger.


    Castiel killed a vampire in Mommy Dearest, and once Eve was dealt with in the same episode, immediately decimated all of her remaining Jefferson Starships. Angels are clearly able to deal with most monsters, Eve was the exception (and apparently so are leviathans).


    Though really, that thing with Eve being immune to Castiel's powers because she's older than him was just a hand wave to explain why he didn't just teleport in and shove the ashes down her throat before she could process what was going on. It's a bit depressing that we're having to use it to justify the leviathans now.


    Better to speculate than just complain.


    I don't think it's just a matter of being older (never bought that). I think being older gives them special insight in what to do to mess with their powers but just being older isn't the whole thing. We don't really know it doesn't work on demons just because Dick ALLOWED Crowley to leave is limo doesn't mean he couldn't have stopped him if he wanted to (just was no point in it).


    Also it likely wouldn't work on ghostsbecausepresumablythey've never had to deal with them. Leviathanswere banished before humans were made so they would never have dealt with an actual ghost before and thus would have no idea how it works or how to defend from it.


    Even so Bobby's attack too a lot of energy out of him so we was still dealing with a massive resistance but not a knowledgeable or skilled one.

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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [42]May 5, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:

    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    dpebbleson wrote:
    Tyrathius wrote:


    But the angels had just used their teleportation getting Kevin in the room, and in the Becky episode Crowley was able to teleport in and out of Dick's car without problem. If the leviathans have some sort of power nullifier, not only has it never been mentioned, it's not applied consistently. Hell, why would leviathans be given power over angels and demons to begin with? They didn't exist when the leviathans were made.


    And then there's the issues of why God would leave angels, which are apparently powerless against leviathans, to guard a tablet about how to kill leviathans. Surely he must have seen the issue with that, so why not assign something else, or give angels the power to fight leviathans? And yeah, leviathans are the oldest known creatures in the supernatural universe barring Death and God, so why would they be vulnerable to the bone and blood of creatures created much later?


    It just seems like the writers haven't put much thought into the leviathan arc and are trying to force how dangerous they are on the audience instead of really showing it.


    I believe that Leviathans somehow cancel the angelic powers, and we've witnessed this with the Mother of All, and with this Leviathan. However, I have to agree with your remark about teleporting into the leviathan-area with no problem, but having trouble to teleport back. One answer could be that "you can get in, but you can't get out" to paraphrase the Eagles song. Castiel was able to teleport himself and the Winchesters to Meg's experimental town, but once there he couldn't do anything. Still, just why these two angels didn't notice anything weird is beyond me. As for the tablet, hmm, you might be right, it's kinda paradoxical all in all, and does sound like an afterthought. Interestingly enough, the humans had not yet been created, but a human will be able to read the tablet, and not an angel I think you raise some interesting issues, I might not agree with everything, but there's definitely something there.
    Of course it's obvious. The cancel effect is short range. You can get there but once in range you have no power and of course they wouldn't realize it until they tried to do something with their powers and found them gone. You mean the Mother don't you? Meg never had an experimental town.


    Yeah, Mother's experimental town, my mistake
    Still your point was correct. The effect wouldn't kick in until the angel was there and then they couldn't leave. It's not like they can cancel their powers out everywhere all at once. Wouldn't really need to either.



    Yeah, makes sense.

    I think Leviathans are very adaptable. They try to understand how things function, so they can evolve, so to speak, and be able to battle them. Remember how they wanted to learn how that girl's mind functioned? Even Mother of All had this scientific edge, turning an entire town into experimental ground, as noted above. Not to mention turning people into cattle, discovering cures so that cattle would be healthy and docile and similar
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  • Avatar of SohiHien

    SohiHien

    [43]May 5, 2012
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    I really hope the Cas/Meg thing does not continue. It just seems weird to me like "if we can't have Dean or Sam be in a relationship we might as well make Cas be in one!" I hate Meg enough as it is, don't make some relationship between the two. If they do I would rather have Cas die to be honest. He's already kinda insane and I'm not sure about his new attitude, I miss the old Cas. I sort of wish he almost hadn't come back now since it's almost like a new character and it still seems to awkward and strange between him and Dean. SInce Dean is still being rude and like an upset preteen about what happened between them. If Sam can forgive and understand Cas why can't Dean get off his high horse and treat Cas with some respect or at least understanding if not full forgiveness.
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  • Avatar of WCSU1987

    WCSU1987

    [44]May 5, 2012
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    Meg and Castiel spinoff anyone???

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [45]May 5, 2012
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    dpebbleson wrote:
    Tyrathius wrote:


    But the angels had just used their teleportation getting Kevin in the room, and in the Becky episode Crowley was able to teleport in and out of Dick's car without problem. If the leviathans have some sort of power nullifier, not only has it never been mentioned, it's not applied consistently. Hell, why would leviathans be given power over angels and demons to begin with? They didn't exist when the leviathans were made.


    And then there's the issues of why God would leave angels, which are apparently powerless against leviathans, to guard a tablet about how to kill leviathans. Surely he must have seen the issue with that, so why not assign something else, or give angels the power to fight leviathans? And yeah, leviathans are the oldest known creatures in the supernatural universe barring Death and God, so why would they be vulnerable to the bone and blood of creatures created much later?


    It just seems like the writers haven't put much thought into the leviathan arc and are trying to force how dangerous they are on the audience instead of really showing it.


    I believe that Leviathans somehow cancel the angelic powers, and we've witnessed this with the Mother of All, and with this Leviathan. However, I have to agree with your remark about teleporting into the leviathan-area with no problem, but having trouble to teleport back. One answer could be that "you can get in, but you can't get out" to paraphrase the Eagles song. Castiel was able to teleport himself and the Winchesters to Meg's experimental town, but once there he couldn't do anything. Still, just why these two angels didn't notice anything weird is beyond me. As for the tablet, hmm, you might be right, it's kinda paradoxical all in all, and does sound like an afterthought. Interestingly enough, the humans had not yet been created, but a human will be able to read the tablet, and not an angel I think you raise some interesting issues, I might not agree with everything, but there's definitely something there.
    Of course it's obvious. The cancel effect is short range. You can get there but once in range you have no power and of course they wouldn't realize it until they tried to do something with their powers and found them gone. You mean the Mother don't you? Meg never had an experimental town.


    Yeah, Mother's experimental town, my mistake
    Still your point was correct. The effect wouldn't kick in until the angel was there and then they couldn't leave. It's not like they can cancel their powers out everywhere all at once. Wouldn't really need to either.


    Yeah, makes sense. I think Leviathans are very adaptable. They try to understand how things function, so they can evolve, so to speak, and be able to battle them. Remember how they wanted to learn how that girl's mind functioned? Even Mother of All had this scientific edge, turning an entire town into experimental ground, as noted above. Not to mention turning people into cattle, discovering cures so that cattle would be healthy and docile and similar
    Yeah, they're very inquisitive and want to learn all about what they're deal with.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [46]May 5, 2012
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    SohiHien wrote:
    I really hope the Cas/Meg thing does not continue. It just seems weird to me like "if we can't have Dean or Sam be in a relationship we might as well make Cas be in one!" I hate Meg enough as it is, don't make some relationship between the two. If they do I would rather have Cas die to be honest. He's already kinda insane and I'm not sure about his new attitude, I miss the old Cas. I sort of wish he almost hadn't come back now since it's almost like a new character and it still seems to awkward and strange between him and Dean. SInce Dean is still being rude and like an upset preteen about what happened between them. If Sam can forgive and understand Cas why can't Dean get off his high horse and treat Cas with some respect or at least understanding if not full forgiveness.
    Well, Sam can forgive and forget because he's been there. Dean wan't happy with what Sam did for a long time and it's going to take a long time for him to reach that point with Cas. He will probably come around sooner or later, just takes him time. I don't really see the whole thing the Cas and Meg as being (or becoming) romantic or physical. She just happened to be there when he woke up and given his mental state he bonded with her like a mother chick. However, given that they've parted company now, not sure it will hold.

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  • Avatar of WickedNix

    WickedNix

    [47]May 5, 2012
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    A Meg & Castiel hook-up? Nope. Not a snowball's chance in Hell. Tongue out


    Meg is an opportunist first, foremost and last, nuff said. Castiel is asexual even in this altered state, so right away that puts a crimp in the works. Just the idea of them being in any kind of relationship makes me want to toss my cookies.


    Other than Cas showing the boys which markings to use inside the cabin to hide them from the angels and telling the boys about God's scribe, he really didn't serve that much purpose in this eppy, which disappointed me since I'm a rabid Castiel fan. I have given up on the writers restoring Cas to an important role again. Seemed like his role was for some kind of twisted comic relief.


    I enjoy the different viewpoints here. Makes for some good reading.


    The Tran kid was really good. Am I to understand that there are other hidden tablets scattered about on Earth?

    Edited on 05/05/2012 6:04pm
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  • Avatar of yutg25

    yutg25

    [48]May 5, 2012
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    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [49]May 5, 2012
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    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.

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  • Avatar of lachlan_j_g

    lachlan_j_g

    [50]May 5, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:


    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.



    the thing I don't get is that yes, Dick would want to keep it (how to kill them) out of the hands of his enemies - but it was already out of their hands to begin with. nobody could read it except old angels, god, death (maybe) and the prophet. so maybe there is more to it than just how to kill them, maybe it has instructions on how to breed or something, I dunno.


    as for everyone who are complaining that Leviathans didn't show their power off before, it's because they wanted to stay under the radar. gee, it was only mentioned like a gazillion times in the earlier episodes. it's kind of similar to the alternate universe in Buffy where she had never come to Sunnydale - the vamps had taken over and weren't concerned about hiding themselves because they were in control. but until that point, they had to stay hidden.


    as for Edgar, is it just me or does he seem a bit disillusioned with 'Dick'? there is a point where he says something derogatory about Dick, and it gave me the impression he didn't like him. we will find out next week if that's the case I'm betting.

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  • Avatar of vampman87

    vampman87

    [51]May 5, 2012
    • member since: 04/22/12
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    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    libra113 wrote:


    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.



    the thing I don't get is that yes, Dick would want to keep it (how to kill them) out of the hands of his enemies - but it was already out of their hands to begin with. nobody could read it except old angels, god, death (maybe) and the prophet. so maybe there is more to it than just how to kill them, maybe it has instructions on how to breed or something, I dunno.


    as for everyone who are complaining that Leviathans didn't show their power off before, it's because they wanted to stay under the radar. gee, it was only mentioned like a gazillion times in the earlier episodes. it's kind of similar to the alternate universe in Buffy where she had never come to Sunnydale - the vamps had taken over and weren't concerned about hiding themselves because they were in control. but until that point, they had to stay hidden.


    as for Edgar, is it just me or does he seem a bit disillusioned with 'Dick'? there is a point where he says something derogatory about Dick, and it gave me the impression he didn't like him. we will find out next week if that's the case I'm betting.



    I think Edgar disagrees with Dick's policies of mass-production of the human slaughterhouses. Dick's policy has always been not to draw attention to their existence, and so huge slaughterhouses and rounding out humans like cattle might go against his own policy. Plus, Dick seems to have the biggest ego out of ANY of the Big Bads, which might finally start rubbing Edgar the wrong way.

    Personally I love the thought of Edgar killing Dick in the end and becoming the main villain of season 8. He's quiet, creepy, and so far the physically strongest of the Leviathans. Dick may be more powerful (given the fact that he actually seems to enjoy getting Boraxed in the face) but as a Big Bad he hasn't done anything except kill Bobby (with a gun). Edgar burned down Bobby's house, nearly beat to death Sam and Dean, survived a car falling on him, took out a Turduken berserker with one punch, and killed two angels. He deserves to lead the Leviathans because he's actually SCARY.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [52]May 6, 2012
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    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    libra113 wrote:


    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.



    the thing I don't get is that yes, Dick would want to keep it (how to kill them) out of the hands of his enemies - but it was already out of their hands to begin with. nobody could read it except old angels, god, death (maybe) and the prophet. so maybe there is more to it than just how to kill them, maybe it has instructions on how to breed or something, I dunno.


    as for everyone who are complaining that Leviathans didn't show their power off before, it's because they wanted to stay under the radar. gee, it was only mentioned like a gazillion times in the earlier episodes. it's kind of similar to the alternate universe in Buffy where she had never come to Sunnydale - the vamps had taken over and weren't concerned about hiding themselves because they were in control. but until that point, they had to stay hidden.


    as for Edgar, is it just me or does he seem a bit disillusioned with 'Dick'? there is a point where he says something derogatory about Dick, and it gave me the impression he didn't like him. we will find out next week if that's the case I'm betting.


    Well yeah but as long as it was out there, there was always a chance some angel or something might unearth it and use it against them. Better to have it in their safe keeping. Maybe there's more, perhaps, but that's reason enough.


    Finally, somebody get it. Jeeze like just having power means they have some come down to Earth and flaunt it all over the place. There's no reason for them to use their power like that (until the angels showed up) and it wouldn't have served their agenda to do so.


    Sure they could come down and just start a mass killing but they would rather do it quietly. They may not know a lot about humans but, judging from theirconversations, they know enough to know it would be easier to do it on the sly than by force.


    Yeah he said something about not understanding why anyone would want to be called Dick. Either it was just a throwaway joke or perhaps there isdissensionin the ranks.

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  • Avatar of yutg25

    yutg25

    [53]May 6, 2012
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    I think Edgar is high up but I doubt he will challenge Dick at best he'll wait until the boys do their dirty work.

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  • Avatar of taxcat11

    taxcat11

    [54]May 6, 2012
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    Why is anyone surprised that leviathans are stronger than angels? It wouldn't have been necessary to lock leviathans up in purgatory if angels were safe from them. Castiel didn't know of their existence - why would anybody from his garrison know? The angels had no clue what happened to Castiel. The angels appear to have been busy dealing with the fall out from their civil war, I doubt they know about what the leviathans have been up to on earth. Those two angel guards had no way to understand their danger or defend themselves against it. Hopefully the second had the presence of to warn the garrison of danger to the "prophet".

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [55]May 6, 2012
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    vampman87 wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    libra113 wrote:


    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.



    the thing I don't get is that yes, Dick would want to keep it (how to kill them) out of the hands of his enemies - but it was already out of their hands to begin with. nobody could read it except old angels, god, death (maybe) and the prophet. so maybe there is more to it than just how to kill them, maybe it has instructions on how to breed or something, I dunno.


    as for everyone who are complaining that Leviathans didn't show their power off before, it's because they wanted to stay under the radar. gee, it was only mentioned like a gazillion times in the earlier episodes. it's kind of similar to the alternate universe in Buffy where she had never come to Sunnydale - the vamps had taken over and weren't concerned about hiding themselves because they were in control. but until that point, they had to stay hidden.


    as for Edgar, is it just me or does he seem a bit disillusioned with 'Dick'? there is a point where he says something derogatory about Dick, and it gave me the impression he didn't like him. we will find out next week if that's the case I'm betting.


    I think Edgar disagrees with Dick's policies of mass-production of the human slaughterhouses. Dick's policy has always been not to draw attention to their existence, and so huge slaughterhouses and rounding out humans like cattle might go against his own policy. Plus, Dick seems to have the biggest ego out of ANY of the Big Bads, which might finally start rubbing Edgar the wrong way. Personally I love the thought of Edgar killing Dick in the end and becoming the main villain of season 8. He's quiet, creepy, and so far the physically strongest of the Leviathans. Dick may be more powerful (given the fact that he actually seems to enjoy getting Boraxed in the face) but as a Big Bad he hasn't done anything except kill Bobby (with a gun). Edgar burned down Bobby's house, nearly beat to death Sam and Dean, survived a car falling on him, took out a Turduken berserker with one punch, and killed two angels. He deserves to lead the Leviathans because he's actually SCARY.
    Well, it doesn't really violate his own policy as the idea is to get people to go in willingly by making them think they're going to get cured of what ails them or that it's a spa or something.


    Of course Edgar was concerned about what would happen once the killing started and there's always the chance of people wondering why grandma didn't come home but that's what the food addiative is for, to make people so complanct they don't care why grandma didn't come back.


    Could be a power struggle in the offing but, again, don't discount Dick because we haven't seen him flash any power. There's a reason he's in charge and there's a majordifferencebetween not having power and not using power.

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  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [56]May 6, 2012
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 164
    vampman87 wrote:

    I'm a little confused as to all the Meg hate going on. I think her character is one of the most developed on the show. She started season 1 a heartless monster who took orders from her father, Azazel; after she was exorcised her primary goal was just simple revenge, not staying to her father's plan; in season 5 her father's master plan took full effect and so she remained loyal to Lucifer, her dad's boss; when Lucifer was defeated she pretty much lost all purpose, until Crowley took the throne and placed a hit on her. Meg is a pretty selfish person, same as Crowley. She does things to suit her own self interest, and right now all she cares about is bringing down the King of Hell. She realized that Castiel could be a great way to actually taking Crowley down, so she's made it her goal to protect him (and possibly emotionally manipulate him) until he's 100%. Although it LOOKS like she's starting to have romantic feelings for Cas, I'm pretty much betting that she's playing him just like Ruby did. Once Crowley's gone, she'll revert to the old Meg.








    You pretty much summed up all the reasons I hate her--no apologies here. Slight correction she is NOT a person, the person is the woman she is inhabiting who given the events in Caged Heat is probably dead.
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  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [57]May 6, 2012
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 164
    libra113 wrote:

    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.



    I don't think Cas and Meg are romantically involved, but they are involved --like I'm not sure who but someone mentioned like a chick who woke up and that's who he saw first--its called primary imprinting. Obviously he has her number and apparently if you want to summon an angel its a simple spell. She, being Meg, would not hesitate to summon him if she was in need, and he, being Cas, would respond.
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  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [58]May 6, 2012
    • member since: 10/16/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 164
    vampman87 wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    libra113 wrote:


    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.



    the thing I don't get is that yes, Dick would want to keep it (how to kill them) out of the hands of his enemies - but it was already out of their hands to begin with. nobody could read it except old angels, god, death (maybe) and the prophet. so maybe there is more to it than just how to kill them, maybe it has instructions on how to breed or something, I dunno.


    as for everyone who are complaining that Leviathans didn't show their power off before, it's because they wanted to stay under the radar. gee, it was only mentioned like a gazillion times in the earlier episodes. it's kind of similar to the alternate universe in Buffy where she had never come to Sunnydale - the vamps had taken over and weren't concerned about hiding themselves because they were in control. but until that point, they had to stay hidden.


    as for Edgar, is it just me or does he seem a bit disillusioned with 'Dick'? there is a point where he says something derogatory about Dick, and it gave me the impression he didn't like him. we will find out next week if that's the case I'm betting.



    I think Edgar disagrees with Dick's policies of mass-production of the human slaughterhouses. Dick's policy has always been not to draw attention to their existence, and so huge slaughterhouses and rounding out humans like cattle might go against his own policy. Plus, Dick seems to have the biggest ego out of ANY of the Big Bads, which might finally start rubbing Edgar the wrong way.

    Personally I love the thought of Edgar killing Dick in the end and becoming the main villain of season 8. He's quiet, creepy, and so far the physically strongest of the Leviathans. Dick may be more powerful (given the fact that he actually seems to enjoy getting Boraxed in the face) but as a Big Bad he hasn't done anything except kill Bobby (with a gun). Edgar burned down Bobby's house, nearly beat to death Sam and Dean, survived a car falling on him, took out a Turduken berserker with one punch, and killed two angels. He deserves to lead the Leviathans because he's actually SCARY.


    Not sure but I don't think Leviathan leadership is based on meritocracy. The leader is the leader and according to Kevin's interpretation--the only way to kill the levia is to kill the leader and the only way he can be killed is with the bone of a righteous mortal washed in the 3 bloods. So killing Dick kills them all.
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  • Avatar of RichardCarlso

    RichardCarlso

    [59]May 6, 2012
    • member since: 05/05/12
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 38

    "SInce Dean is still being rude and like an upset preteen about what happened between them. If Sam can forgive and understand Cas why can't Dean get off his high horse and treat Cas with some respect or at least understanding if not full forgiveness."


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Dean has always pretty much treated Castiel like crap. He has no use for Castiel except when he wants him to do a favor for him. Deans attitude toward Castiel is,,,"hey, buddy, when I snap my fingers you drop everything and get down here, understand?" Dean can be a real dick at times, and he showed it again when he threw the game board off the table.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [60]May 6, 2012
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388

    smegmag wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    yutg25 wrote:


    I think those angels were just incapable stupid I mean where are the quality angels. There were two of them unless they were completely out of the loop wouldn't one of them had the presence of mind to get the Prophet and his mom out. I knew that the FBI guy was Leviathan I just knew Dick wouldn't take it lying down. Why do I think there was more to that word of God than we translated. WHy would Dick want that rock if all it had was a way to kill them and why do they need to send the Prophet to the desert to learn something.


    From a writers pov they needed to make the Leviathans immune to Angels so that Cas couldn't just go terminator on Dick's ass. They could have explained it in other ways though like when we were riding on Cas we learned a lot of Angel intel and made ourselves immune to Angel ass kicking moves or just say Eve learned her protection from us.


    I am worried about Cas and Meg's influence over him.


    Blame Sam and Dean they made the deal with them not to take him to the desert like they wanted to. Perhaps if they had let the angels have their way they wouldn't be dead now.


    You really have to ask WHY Dick wouldn't want the way to kill him in the hands of his enemies? Really?


    Cas and Meg went theirseparateways I doubt she has influence over him anymore. He may be crazy, he may be weird but he's not an idiot.


    I don't think Cas and Meg are romantically involved, but they are involved --like I'm not sure who but someone mentioned like a chick who woke up and that's who he saw first--its called primary imprinting. Obviously he has her number and apparently if you want to summon an angel its a simple spell. She, being Meg, would not hesitate to summon him if she was in need, and he, being Cas, would respond.
    That was me. I said the bonded with her like a mother chick. Think that's as far as it goes however and given that they parted ways I doubt it will be an issue anymore (even in his state he knows what she is and 'sees everything' so I don't see him helping her unless it serves the greater good in some way).

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