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Official Discussion Thread: Survival of the Fittest (possible spoilers)

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    Gislef

    [1]May 16, 2012
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    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 5/18/12 episode "Survival of the Fittest" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
    Edited on 05/16/2012 9:45pm
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    Tyrathius

    [2]May 17, 2012
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    Castiel really needs to get his suit back. He looks so weird wearing the trenchcoat over his mental patient clothes.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [3]May 17, 2012
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    Tyrathius wrote:


    Castiel really needs to get his suit back. He looks so weird wearing the trenchcoat over his mental patient clothes.


    At least with the coat he won't flash everyone whenever he turns his back on them.

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  • Avatar of RichardCarlso

    RichardCarlso

    [4]May 18, 2012
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    Gislef wrote:


    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 5/18/12 episode "Survival of the Fittest" to this thread.

    Enjoy!


    Really excited about it. Should be a cliff hangar! And this is good to hear:

    CW president Mark Pedowitz -"I'm not looking at Season 8 as the final year in any way, shape or form."
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    Hildetorr

    [5]May 18, 2012
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    I bet the cliffhanger will have something to do with Bobby going all evil because he is a ghost. (Castiel last season and Bobby this season)

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  • Avatar of RichardCarlso

    RichardCarlso

    [6]May 18, 2012
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    Hildetorr wrote:

    I bet the cliffhanger will have something to do with Bobby going all evil because he is a ghost. (Castiel last season and Bobby this season)



    I don't know why most people, and Sam and Dean in the show itself, think Bobby is going to go evil so fast. Sam's been wanting to kill Bobby's ghost from the moment he saw him. If he had his way he would have burned the flask immediately. Remember the haunted house a few weeks ago. The ghosts had been in that house for decades, and they didn't look bat crap nuts or evil,,,except for just the one that screamed and the one that was feeding off the others. If anything, they looked bored.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [7]May 18, 2012
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    RichardCarlso wrote:
    Hildetorr wrote:


    I bet the cliffhanger will have something to do with Bobby going all evil because he is a ghost. (Castiel last season and Bobby this season)


    I don't know why most people, and Sam and Dean in the show itself, think Bobby is going to go evil so fast. Sam's been wanting to kill Bobby's ghost from the moment he saw him. If he had his way he would have burned the flask immediately. Remember the haunted house a few weeks ago. The ghosts had been in that house for decades, and they didn't look bat crap nuts or evil,,,except for just the one that screamed and the one that was feeding off the others. If anything, they looked bored.
    Yeah, but as that episode showed, the rate of decline varies greatly from one ghost to another and with his hate for Dick and how his anger and emotion are driving him down that path he's going darker and darker, faster than he otherwise would.


    If he was just sitting around somewhere haunted a place he would probably be fine of years (even decades) but the way he's fueling his powers with his rage he's slipping away in days or weeks.


    It's kind of like he's channeling the dark side of the force and we know how that corrupts and destroys those who use the dark side.

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    Hildetorr

    [8]May 18, 2012
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    Dean trapped in Purgatory I did not see that coming

    Edited on 05/18/2012 7:08pm
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    WickedNix

    [9]May 18, 2012
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    Okay, I'll say it in ten words or less.


    I found the finale a bit ho-hum. Undecided

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  • Avatar of RichardCarlso

    RichardCarlso

    [10]May 18, 2012
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    Hildetorr wrote:

    Dean trapped in Purgatory I did not see that coming



    The shows writers and producers sure love to hit us with the unexpected.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [11]May 18, 2012
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    RichardCarlso wrote:
    Hildetorr wrote:


    Dean trapped in Purgatory I did not see that coming


    The shows writers and producers sure love to hit us with the unexpected.
    He's been to Heaven AND Hell so I guess it was the next stop on his other worlds tour.


    Now Sam gets to spend the summer alone trying to take out what left of the Leviathans and working out just where Dean and Cas went.

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  • Avatar of vampman87

    vampman87

    [12]May 18, 2012
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    Having now seen the episode, I have to admit... the episode itself was pretty standard, but the ending was AWESOME!


    Bobby managed to get a hold of himself before he went 100% pure vengeful and begged the boys to destroy him, which they reluctantly did. The actual burning of the Bobby's ghost was done off screen, which I have mixed feelings about. On one hand it gave the character some dignity, since all ghosts they've burned go out screaming, but on the other hand I would've liked to see Bobby smile at the boys as he burned up, much like how John did as he disappeared after Dean killed Yellow Eyes.


    As expected, Dick got killed (pretty easily, too) but what I don't really agree with is that it signals the end of the Leviathan threat. Crowley mentioned that the Leviathan's main weakness is they only have one king, and with the two Leviathans who had any other power (Dr. Gaines and Edgar) dead, the Levis will basically be reduced to a mere monster-of-the-week status, but what he failed to mention is that the Levis still have control over the most powerful people on the planet. And Dick's assistant Susan is still alive, she might be able to regroup the monsters and make them actually SCARY again!


    Dean and Cas are now (SPOILER) stuck in Purgatory... This was an awesome cliffhanger ending because it has sooooo much potential. Every monster that Dean fought in the past can potentially come back for revenge, and I'm hoping they bring back some old favorites, like Madison the werewolf, Lenore the vampire, the Wendigo, Dean's Amazon daughter, the Phoenix, or (God I hope she comes back) EVE!



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  • Avatar of trans8010

    trans8010

    [13]May 18, 2012
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    So apparently when Dick died (great to be rid of him) he let loose a shockwave of sorts that transported Dean and Cas to Purgatory, which looks like the outskirts of Gotham City in Tim Burton's Batman. Setting fotrh now another cliffhanger that separates the boys and will no doubt have Sam searching endlessly to find Dean for half a season or so while Dean fights for his life in purgatory. Ok another one of those stories, hopefully this one will work there is great potential here. The finale has a load of problems here, not only did it not feel like a finale possibly because the final solution itself was rushed into an arc of 6 episodes so everything was dummbed down and rushed, it wasnt a terrible episode but it definitely was a luckluster finale to a mediocre season.

    However I do have a problem wiith the cliffhanger. Cas explains that when Dick died he sent them to purgatory and most likely himself. Wait a minute so you didnt really kill him then Unless I read things wrong that's what I got. Also if he had that ability to transport himself between demensions, gateways whatever how come he hasnt used this before? I guess it could be that it only works in death so you either have to wait for someone to open the gate, or if a levi dies they automatically go back. However this makes no sense given they have souls and when you kill the body you kill the soul. Angels die they dont go back to heaven they die, Demon's get knifed or burn they die. Ghosts are vanquished but it's still not sure where they go. So Leviathan's die they just go back to purgatory? This is a huge hole!

    Also I'm sure this has been mentioned but if they had this ability why didnt they escape when the alpha dragons released Eve from Purgatory? After all they had every opportunity to.

    My next problem the redundant Bobby, and Paulina arcs. Paulina is a little girl probably 13-14, she's told to undress out of her pink dress and into a drab grey one. Why? I get that Dick wants to show off his new formula that gives the levi everything they need in a half and half cup, ad it was horrifying to see a lil girl writh in pain as her nervous system collapses. However the costume change wasnt neccesary to pull this off. Also was I the only one who found it disturbing they commanded she remove the dress anyway. Really? She's a pre-teen or teenager, it's not appropriate. They could have easily had her old up her arm, or leg or bark like a dog. Sera tried to paint this ruthless picture that Dick is well a Dick and this is another reason why you should wish him dead, well when the whole arc is pointless to begin with the writer looks sleazy.

    Now Bobby, oh Bobby I was against killing him off from the beginning. I thought his role should have been limited since the boys seemed to rely on him too much these past years. Seriously Sam and Dean's intellegence was seriously lowered to support the Bobby character. Much like Rachel from friends became a total ditz when those writers tried forcing a relationship between her and Joey. So I was equally pissed when Bobby came back as a ghost since hunting them for 30 years or so, he knows what happens to them, the anger rage and hurt people. Sam and Dean also know this and instead of releasing him they let him loose even after he rages on Dick almost killing people in the process. Obviously he wants his revenge on Dick, I get it so I thought maybe he'll get his revenge and the boys would burn the flask. So come to my surprise when Bobby is released prior to them killing Dick. Plus, we DONT SEE IT! We dont see him fade away. WTF!!!!! So a whole years worth of plottig is flushed down he toilet and Bobby now joins Jo, Ritchie, and countless others as throwaway characters. Nothing amounted from this arc.

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  • Avatar of trans8010

    trans8010

    [14]May 18, 2012
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    vampman87 wrote:


    As expected, Dick got killed (pretty easily, too) but what I don't really agree with is that it signals the end of the Leviathan threat. Crowley mentioned that the Leviathan's main weakness is they only have one king, and with the two Leviathans who had any other power (Dr. Gaines and Edgar) dead, the Levis will basically be reduced to a mere monster-of-the-week status, but what he failed to mention is that the Levis still have control over the most powerful people on the planet. And Dick's assistant Susan is still alive, she might be able to regroup the monsters and make them actually SCARY again!


    Dean and Cas are now (SPOILER) stuck in Purgatory... This was an awesome cliffhanger ending because it has sooooo much potential. Every monster that Dean fought in the past can potentially come back for revenge, and I'm hoping they bring back some old favorites, like Madison the werewolf, Lenore the vampire, the Wendigo, Dean's Amazon daughter, the Phoenix, or (God I hope she comes back) EVE!




    The problem is the Leviathan were never scary to begin with. Sure they ate a couple of people, and assumed their form but for the most part, their characters were shrouded in mystery. They didnt do anything that outlandish, or remotely horrifying until the last six episodes and by that point fans tired of them. They weren't even that different from demons even though they claim to be. Their true form is of black matter, that possess people although there are some differences from demons their intial appearances they were thought of as a super demon. Their master plan wasn't effective in scaring those because there wasnt enough build up to it. This was felt like 2 seasons of material condensed into 1. The end result was sloppy.

    An awesome season would have Dean confront those he killed in previous years really? Cmon this show has rehashed enough storylines plus getting those actors back especially Emmanuelle may be a bit tough and costly, no I expect it would be more like Smallville season 9(?) when Clark was trapped in the phantom zone a bunch of new enemies and ghosts hunted him. Expect that.

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    mynameisjohnas

    [15]May 18, 2012
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    Good episode and, while not the best I've ever seen, an acceptable season finale (sue me, I'm a TV snob). Highlights for me are as follows:


    -Loved watching Crowley and Dick wrangle over their agreement (you could tell that while Dick was no novice in the legal department, Crowley was the more experienced- Roman looked like he was getting seriously annoyed by the time morning had arrived.)


    -The middle was a little slow, and like Vampman, I too would have liked to have seen Bobby's reaction as he burned, but other than that it was a decent season finale upon first viewing. You can tell Cas feels at least a little responsible given his reaction to Bobby's exit, he just doesn't (or at least didn't at that point) know how to express it. His reaction to it might also have played a part in him finally listening to Dean's request for help.


    -Watching everyone's reaction to Castiel's new personality, and his reactions to their reactions ("Honey?") is priceless.


    -While killing Dick did seem a little easy, at least the writers did add in a bit of a misdirect before they allowed it to happen, just so it wasn't too easy. His pulsing, while a little video game(ish), was cool to watch if for no other reason than the special effects used for it.


    -Turns out I was wrong about the boys needing Lucifer's blood instead of Crowley's, but boy am I glad I was. I was half expecting this at the end of the last season finale, but better late than never. As Libra said, Dean has been to both Heaven and Hell, so it stands to reason he'd eventually end up in Purgatory. Likewise, not only will both characters be faced against everything they ever sent there, but on the upside, they might find a few friendly faces we've been wondering about for a very long time- specifically John and Mary (or at least Mary if not John since he didn't burn up like most ghosts do and could be in Heaven already).

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    trans8010

    [16]May 18, 2012
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    Thinking about it some more while it does seem interesting that Dean will now face countless creatures he's put there, I just cant help but wonder how those creature's souls end up in purgatory. Purgatory hasnt really been explained too well, but I assume the soul when released from a dead body automatically is sent there, but if God created purgatory to keep the leviathan there from escaping how would letting something in not weaken that doorway somehow? I would assume it's one of those things that once it was closed it could not be opened and if so was there a special barrier in place that prevents any from leaving but allows those to enter kind of like a roach motel.

    As for John and Mary they're human spirits they shouldn't be in purgatory. Although it's clear that John and Mary have yet to be found in heaven, that doesnt mean they are not there. Ash said there is like 10 billion heavens in there and he had yet to find them. He's only been there for a short time. Add to that Mary's sacrifice in the first season episode Home. Mary destroyed herself or so I thought to kill the entity from harming those in her house esspecially her boys. Now I could be wrong, but I doubt she exists.

    Edited on 05/18/2012 8:32pm
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  • Avatar of RichardCarlso

    RichardCarlso

    [17]May 18, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:

    RichardCarlso wrote:
    Hildetorr wrote:


    Dean trapped in Purgatory I did not see that coming


    The shows writers and producers sure love to hit us with the unexpected.
    He's been to Heaven AND Hell so I guess it was the next stop on his other worlds tour.


    Now Sam gets to spend the summer alone trying to take out what left of the Leviathans and working out just where Dean and Cas went.



    Looks like Purgatory is even worse than Hell, and the most evil end up in Purgatory. Thats going to be a hard sell for the writers. But I'm pleased with the episode and it had a great ending. About the only complaint I had was with how it ended for Bobby. It was a lackluster return for the character, and the show would have been better off not bringing him back at all than just throwing the character under the bus like that.
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  • Avatar of trans8010

    trans8010

    [19]May 18, 2012
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    RichardCarlso wrote:
    libra113 wrote:

    RichardCarlso wrote:
    Hildetorr wrote:


    Dean trapped in Purgatory I did not see that coming


    The shows writers and producers sure love to hit us with the unexpected.
    He's been to Heaven AND Hell so I guess it was the next stop on his other worlds tour.


    Now Sam gets to spend the summer alone trying to take out what left of the Leviathans and working out just where Dean and Cas went.



    Looks like Purgatory is even worse than Hell, and the most evil end up in Purgatory. Thats going to be a hard sell for the writers. But I'm pleased with the episode and it had a great ending. About the only complaint I had was with how it ended for Bobby. It was a lackluster return for the character, and the show would have been better off not bringing him back at all than just throwing the character under the bus like that.


    I have to agree. Bobby was one of those characters that had more significance to the show than Cas, and while Cas has his chance at redemption Bobby just walks around bitching and moaning. Seriously why did they bring him back if they were not going to utilize his character? Sera has once again proved what she does best is take memorable characters and poorly rub them out.

    Along with effectively and a damn lazy way of ending the civil war between the Angels, Cas will go nanners and wipe them out, well ok Sera what about the survivors they are still up there without no guidance and what about Raph? I'm pretty sure the Archangel isnt dead Cas just tore in half his meat suit, when Angels die they emit black goo or white light, this didnt happen with Raph, so I guess he's still up there or hiding down here maybe. whatever Sera took that storyline and with one line of dialogue they've been wiped out. The leviathan marched into heaven and killed all the surviving angels? Can they march into heaven? We dont know.
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    WCSU1987

    [20]May 18, 2012
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    I have to say one of the best endings to Supernatural. Continuing on Sam's storyline throughout the past seven seasons, and leaving so many questions what as to what happen to Dean. Can he just keep being shredded where he is? With Eve and the Lev.'s they left Purgatory by two different doors. Is Purgatory a prison with an individual key to let that one person out? Will Sam let loose all of Purgatory? Why does Crowley need the prophet? Does he know more on where Dean is? Does he have more plans? What did Crowley mean with the Angels and Leviathans gone he is the ruler of Earth? With the Angels destroyed figure they were summoned by the Lev.'s. Wow, this was an awesome episode.

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