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Official Discussion Thread: Survival of the Fittest (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of trans8010

    trans8010

    [21]May 18, 2012
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    I think Purgatory has some sort of barrier around it's gateway that only allows entry into the dark desolete area. The barrier prevents those from leaving kind of like salt in the doorways for demons. I'm sure Purgatory isnt like heaven or Hell. It doesnt house just the dead there are living creatures there as well. God couldn't destroy what he put in there, and their offspring is doomed to spend eternity in that place as well. Dean's not dead he's just been transported to another dimension of sorts, so if he dies he's dead unless Cas heals him over and over again.

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    Tyrathius

    [22]May 18, 2012
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    First of all, let me just say that I'm glad they decided to end the leviathan arc here rather than trying to stretch it out another season. I wasn't particularly fond of them in the first place, but with Sam and Dean finding a way to kill them and their master plan being put into motion here, there really wasn't anything else that could be done with them.


    I'm also happy it was Dean who got to kill Dick in the end, and subsequently got sent to purgatory. Dean's arc this season has basically been "react to what happens to Sam/Bobby/Castiel" and even last season he didn't get anything other than the much reviled Lisa sidestory, so hopefully this signals that the writers are going to give him an actual story next season.


    Bobby should have just stayed dead after Dick killed him (or rather, what choice he made should have been left up to the viewer). This whole ghost arc ultimately ended up being about as relevant as the Amy one was. It took up a lot of screentime and ultimately very little came out of it. His original death -fighting off a Reaper long enough to get crucial information about the leviathans to Sam and Dean- was a much better end to his character. But he'll probably be back next season anyway.


    Castiel... Well, hopefully purgatory would be good for him. This hippie version of him is an insult to the original Cas. Luckily it seemed to mostly be a way of dealing with his guilt and he seemed to be getting over it at by the end of this episode. As long as he doesn't have a relapse, we're good, but if he does he'll likely ruin what could have been an awesome plot in purgatory.


    Crowley was awesome in the episode. Doubling crossing Dick, double crossing Sam, knocking the leviathans down a notch, and just generally being a badass. The only thing that could possibly make me like him more is if the season 8 premiere began with him killing Meg after several months (decades helltime, of course) worth of horrible torture, but I don't think I'll be that lucky.


    Speaking of Meg, she really didn't need to be in this episode. Or this season, for that matter. In the end, the only significant thing she did was get captured by Crowley.... Which is a lead-in to next season's plot. They could have just done that next season. She also ruined the Impala's grand return... That seen was so perfect, with the Impala driving down the road and leeroying Dick's joint while blazing Born To Be Wild... And then Meg gets out of the car instead of Sam and Dean. Bah. Least the Impala is finally back. It's about time.


    Overall a good episode, and a better end to the leviathan saga than I'd hoped for. Still, my reaction to Dick's death was less "That was awesome!" and more "Good, they're finally done with this." Here's to a better eighth season.

    Edited on 05/18/2012 11:01pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of AnimeMadness

    AnimeMadness

    [23]May 19, 2012
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    This was the worst. I love Supernatural but even I couldn't get past how crappy this episode was and I was drunk watching it too. My standards are lowered when drunk...... You noticed during the road so far sequence they hardly put in any clips from episodes other than the beginning and the end? That's because most episodes this season sucked or were filler........

    I kept hoping the writers would make everything up to us by giving us a killer finale but I was left disappointed and bored out of my freaking mind. At this point I don't even care Dean is trapped in Purgatory. I miss the days when Supernatural finales left me screaming my head off at the TV screen in disbelief. I just hope they do a better job next season. I still say the CW fired Sera Gamble from Supermatural because she was doing a terrible job running things. That stuff about her leaving to do other projects was just a nice way of saying she got sacked. Seriously why would she leave when she was just put in charge?

    Still hate that they made Castiel nuts. They better fix that next season. I hate even more that the Leviathans are still around. They were the WORST. At times I was getting confused if I was watching Supernatural or 24..... Sad that Bobby died....again. Loved Crowley. He makes things fun. And the part where Dean said Castiel showed up naked on top of his car covered in bees was the ONLY interesting part of the episode and they don't even show that.... Meg telling Dean Cas was his boyfriend first was priceless. XD
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  • Avatar of dman_dustin

    dman_dustin

    [24]May 19, 2012
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    trans8010 wrote:


    However I do have a problem wiith the cliffhanger. Cas explains that when Dick died he sent them to purgatory and most likely himself. Wait a minute so you didnt really kill him then Unless I read things wrong that's what I got. Also if he had that ability to transport himself between demensions, gateways whatever how come he hasnt used this before? I guess it could be that it only works in death so you either have to wait for someone to open the gate, or if a levi dies they automatically go back. However this makes no sense given they have souls and when you kill the body you kill the soul. Angels die they dont go back to heaven they die, Demon's get knifed or burn they die. Ghosts are vanquished but it's still not sure where they go. So Leviathan's die they just go back to purgatory? This is a huge hole!



    Well we assume that every creature God made had a soul (except Angels, and Demons are already souls/ghosts, and ghosts are ghosts), so if we assume that Leviathans have souls, and because they are creatures, well then there is no gaping hole.


    God put the Leviathans in Purgatory. I'm assuming that's like putting a body and soul into heaven or hell. Because the Leviathans were released, they were probably more akin to "Werewolves" than "Angels/Demons" which means the Leviathans were BODY and SOUL.


    Therefore it would make sense that Dick dying meant his soul was sent to purgatory. Which makes sense, after all the only way to separate body and soul typically is to the body, and God didn't do that, he just locked them in a cage.


    But you'd probably argue about how Castiel was able to absorb "body and soul"


    So then I do understand that there is a flaw in the whole Purgatory situation. Assume for a moment that there's a werewolf killed by Sam and Dean and sent to purgatory (it's soul). It would be my understanding if it was released from purgatory (if it could) that it would be the "soul" of the werewolf, and then if it was killed it would be dead permanently, right?


    It is confusing, but backing up to my "how Castiel able to absorb body and soul" well from what we've seen, it almost seems like the Leviathans have a "spirit form" that was released when Castiel exploded in the season premier, which would explain why Castiel was to absorb the "body and soul" but only when "possessing" a body (so far humans), it might make it possible for them to gain the body and soul aspect, therefore if killed, their "soul" should be sent to Purgatory, but maybe a lot more vulnerable.


    Purgatory and the possibility that it's denizens can escape (in comparison to human souls and heaven and hell) is really what makes it all confusing. I don't think we're entirely sure how John managed to escape from hell, and then he merely vanished, and didn't look to "soul-like" especially when we saw Death putting Sam's soul back.


    Come to think of it, I think there's so much wrong with consistency, it's hard to know what's going on in the Supernatural world.

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  • Avatar of TylerA46

    TylerA46

    [25]May 19, 2012
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    What a crap episode.

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  • Avatar of kepa55

    kepa55

    [26]May 19, 2012
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    Oh dear, what a way to finish the season. I think the Story so Far portion of the episode highlighted the problem this year: the Leviathans came in the premiere, and just in the last few episodes the writers decided on some hokeypokey way to kill them/Dick. In the middle? Nothing.


    This might have been an okay episode by itself, but as a season finale... no. Where was the excitement? Where was the build-up to an epic fight? The only time I got slightly excited was when the Impala came back (and okay, Carry On Wayward Son gets me every time). But the first 30 or so minutes of the episodes were frankly boring. Dick and Crowley talking in a room for 5 minutes to start the episode? Who thought that was a good idea? And the ultimate goal to kill skinny people... weird, but I didn't care for it anymore at this point. Also getting into Sucrocorp was disappointing to say the least: drive through the gate, behead a couple of Leviathans and have Cas teleport you to Dick.


    Emotionally this was a very bland episode. If the highlight was meant to be Bobby's (second) sent-off, it failed. Why did they even brought him back if they weren't going to develop his character more (just becoming vengeful ghost.. yeah, that's exciting). Hopefully he'll stay gone this time.


    And the cliffhanger. Haven't we already dejad this vu?


    I just hope the series learns from its mistakes this year and manages to do a proper final season.

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  • Avatar of Hildetorr

    Hildetorr

    [27]May 19, 2012
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    Something that confused me is how was Cas able to get his normal personality back when himself and Dean were transported to Purgatory?



    When he was talking in Purgatory that didn't sound like "He is off his rocker" Cas. He looked completely normal when they arrived in Purgatory

    Edited on 05/19/2012 3:50am
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [28]May 19, 2012
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    I can agree with the fact that Dean ends up in Purgatory, after Heaven and Hell, it was kinda logical.

    However, killing the Chief Leviathan bringing them there, hmmm.. funny If I had to think of the reason why, I'd say it was Dick's way of revenge. He's going back and taking them with him.

    However I don't get it how you kill the Leviathan? If Dick is brought back to the Purgatory then there is a chance of him coming back again in some future...

    So I see them going around the Purgatory in which Dick hunts them for revenge.

    Also: Castiel said that it was in Purgatory where monsters pray on each other. So, for example, if one monster kills another in Purgatory, where does its prey go after it's eaten? To Meta-Purgatory?

    I'm also interested to know whether killed demons go to non-existence or to Purgatory? Also dead angels? Where do they go? Castiel was dead but resuscitated - he must have been somewhere to be brought back from...

    Also, where does Dean goes if he dies in Purgatory, does his soul get out?

    Purgatory was very hard to break in, and also hard to break out of it as well.

    I think Dick was kinda killed too quickly and too easily, he was like a Bond villain. I also think Sam and Dean and Castiel breaking in into a Purgatorial Fortress was way too easy and convenient.
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    lachlan_j_g

    [29]May 19, 2012
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    I thought the episode was great, and that's a cliffhanger and a half - definitely did not see that coming. I am glad not all the Leviathans were wiped out, cause that would have been too easy.


    I hope they find John and Mary, they both should be in purgatory. Ash didn't find them in heaven and he was there for a while - he found Sam and Dean very quickly when they arrived, so ifJohn & Marywere there he would have found them. plus Eve was able to turn into Mary, so she must have had contact with her at some point (shapeshifting powers).


    As for Sam, he is completely alone now - no Bobby, no Dean. will be interesting to see how he goes. I think getting blown back to Purgatory may have helped Cas a bit - he did seem a bit more focussed, I wonder where he went though - clearly teleportation is allowed in Purgatory. so obviously, all the monsters they killed are there - what about the dead angels? do you reckon they will be in there too? if no, where do they go when they die? they must go somewhere - when Raph killed Cas at the end of season 4, he was brought back - from where?

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  • Avatar of Tvking00

    Tvking00

    [30]May 19, 2012
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    My reaction to this episode was just WTH...
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  • Avatar of lachlan_j_g

    lachlan_j_g

    [31]May 19, 2012
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    trans8010 wrote:


    However I do have a problem wiith the cliffhanger. Cas explains that when Dick died he sent them to purgatory and most likely himself. Wait a minute so you didnt really kill him then Unless I read things wrong that's what I got. Also if he had that ability to transport himself between demensions, gateways whatever how come he hasnt used this before? I guess it could be that it only works in death so you either have to wait for someone to open the gate, or if a levi dies they automatically go back. However this makes no sense given they have souls and when you kill the body you kill the soul. Angels die they dont go back to heaven they die, Demon's get knifed or burn they die. Ghosts are vanquished but it's still not sure where they go. So Leviathan's die they just go back to purgatory? This is a huge hole!



    yes they did kill Dick, that is blatantly obvious - he isn't alive on Earth and he is now in Purgatory (or is he.....?). I would think all supernatural beings would go to purgatory, including angels (God had to resurrect Castiel from somewhere, yeah?). Ghosts would go to purgatory, as they refused to go to Heaven or Hell by running away from their reaper.


    trans8010 wrote:


    Also I'm sure this has been mentioned but if they had this ability why didnt they escape when the alpha dragons released Eve from Purgatory? After all they had every opportunity to.



    because that was a ritual specifically to bring out Eve, similar to how someone summons a specific demon.


    trans8010 wrote:


    My next problem the redundant Bobby, and Paulina arcs. Paulina is a little girl probably 13-14, she's told to undress out of her pink dress and into a drab grey one. Why? I get that Dick wants to show off his new formula that gives the levi everything they need in a half and half cup, ad it was horrifying to see a lil girl writh in pain as her nervous system collapses. However the costume change wasnt neccesary to pull this off. Also was I the only one who found it disturbing they commanded she remove the dress anyway. Really? She's a pre-teen or teenager, it's not appropriate. They could have easily had her old up her arm, or leg or bark like a dog. Sera tried to paint this ruthless picture that Dick is well a Dick and this is another reason why you should wish him dead, well when the whole arc is pointless to begin with the writer looks sleazy.


    the Paulina/Polly arc? what arc? if you count that as an arc, then there's been like 45 million arcs in the 7 seasons thus far. she definitely was not a pre-teen, teenager yes but about Kevin's age I would have thought. the other Leviathans didn't need to see her arm, (or hear her bark like a dog? wtf?), they needed to see her body type which is what they showed. as for why they needed the costume change, well how else was Kevin gonna sneak out of the locked office - the clothing change provided him with the bobby pins. maybe also, they wanted her to look plain, normal girl. that showed the effect of the additive in the food, that she would do whatever she was told.

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  • Avatar of lachlan_j_g

    lachlan_j_g

    [32]May 19, 2012
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    Tvking00 wrote:
    My reaction to this episode was just WTH...


    don't you mean WTP? lol

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [33]May 19, 2012
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    vampman87 wrote:


    Having now seen the episode, I have to admit... the episode itself was pretty standard, but the ending was AWESOME!


    Bobby managed to get a hold of himself before he went 100% pure vengeful and begged the boys to destroy him, which they reluctantly did. The actual burning of the Bobby's ghost was done off screen, which I have mixed feelings about. On one hand it gave the character some dignity, since all ghosts they've burned go out screaming, but on the other hand I would've liked to see Bobby smile at the boys as he burned up, much like how John did as he disappeared after Dean killed Yellow Eyes.


    As expected, Dick got killed (pretty easily, too) but what I don't really agree with is that it signals the end of the Leviathan threat. Crowley mentioned that the Leviathan's main weakness is they only have one king, and with the two Leviathans who had any other power (Dr. Gaines and Edgar) dead, the Levis will basically be reduced to a mere monster-of-the-week status, but what he failed to mention is that the Levis still have control over the most powerful people on the planet. And Dick's assistant Susan is still alive, she might be able to regroup the monsters and make them actually SCARY again!


    Dean and Cas are now (SPOILER) stuck in Purgatory... This was an awesome cliffhanger ending because it has sooooo much potential. Every monster that Dean fought in the past can potentially come back for revenge, and I'm hoping they bring back some old favorites, like Madison the werewolf, Lenore the vampire, the Wendigo, Dean's Amazon daughter, the Phoenix, or (God I hope she comes back) EVE!




    Yeah, but that's Sam's job to stop anyone fromreorganizingthem. While there have been a handful that we've seen that smart and forceful enough to lead the others are pretty muchhungry and just want to eat.


    Sam has to weed out the ones with the will and the intelligence to lead and keep them from leading so that they are easy to pick off.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [34]May 19, 2012
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    trans8010 wrote:


    So apparently when Dick died (great to be rid of him) he let loose a shockwave of sorts that transported Dean and Cas to Purgatory, which looks like the outskirts of Gotham City in Tim Burton's Batman. Setting fotrh now another cliffhanger that separates the boys and will no doubt have Sam searching endlessly to find Dean for half a season or so while Dean fights for his life in purgatory. Ok another one of those stories, hopefully this one will work there is great potential here. The finale has a load of problems here, not only did it not feel like a finale possibly because the final solution itself was rushed into an arc of 6 episodes so everything was dummbed down and rushed, it wasnt a terrible episode but it definitely was a luckluster finale to a mediocre season.

    However I do have a problem wiith the cliffhanger. Cas explains that when Dick died he sent them to purgatory and most likely himself. Wait a minute so you didnt really kill him then Unless I read things wrong that's what I got. Also if he had that ability to transport himself between demensions, gateways whatever how come he hasnt used this before? I guess it could be that it only works in death so you either have to wait for someone to open the gate, or if a levi dies they automatically go back. However this makes no sense given they have souls and when you kill the body you kill the soul. Angels die they dont go back to heaven they die, Demon's get knifed or burn they die. Ghosts are vanquished but it's still not sure where they go. So Leviathan's die they just go back to purgatory? This is a huge hole!

    Also I'm sure this has been mentioned but if they had this ability why didnt they escape when the alpha dragons released Eve from Purgatory? After all they had every opportunity to.

    My next problem the redundant Bobby, and Paulina arcs. Paulina is a little girl probably 13-14, she's told to undress out of her pink dress and into a drab grey one. Why? I get that Dick wants to show off his new formula that gives the levi everything they need in a half and half cup, ad it was horrifying to see a lil girl writh in pain as her nervous system collapses. However the costume change wasnt neccesary to pull this off. Also was I the only one who found it disturbing they commanded she remove the dress anyway. Really? She's a pre-teen or teenager, it's not appropriate. They could have easily had her old up her arm, or leg or bark like a dog. Sera tried to paint this ruthless picture that Dick is well a Dick and this is another reason why you should wish him dead, well when the whole arc is pointless to begin with the writer looks sleazy.

    Now Bobby, oh Bobby I was against killing him off from the beginning. I thought his role should have been limited since the boys seemed to rely on him too much these past years. Seriously Sam and Dean's intellegence was seriously lowered to support the Bobby character. Much like Rachel from friends became a total ditz when those writers tried forcing a relationship between her and Joey. So I was equally pissed when Bobby came back as a ghost since hunting them for 30 years or so, he knows what happens to them, the anger rage and hurt people. Sam and Dean also know this and instead of releasing him they let him loose even after he rages on Dick almost killing people in the process. Obviously he wants his revenge on Dick, I get it so I thought maybe he'll get his revenge and the boys would burn the flask. So come to my surprise when Bobby is released prior to them killing Dick. Plus, we DONT SEE IT! We dont see him fade away. WTF!!!!! So a whole years worth of plottig is flushed down he toilet and Bobby now joins Jo, Ritchie, and countless others as throwaway characters. Nothing amounted from this arc.


    I doubt it will last that long. Maybe a lot of time will pass off screen but there's a very vocal group who hate when Sam and Dean area apart too long so I can't see them beingseparatedfor more than an episode (two tops). Unless the writers are willing to suffer thetidalwave of whining.


    The effect was a side effect of the weapon (Crowley said so) it had nothing to do with Dick willingly doing anything. The weapon kills the leader and whoever is nearby gets sucked into Purgatory. It's the price to pay for using the weapon. Oh and Dick is dead.


    They had to show off how skinny she was. Dick said she ate like a linebacker and he was demonstrating how thin she was to the other Leviathans. An arm is only going to show she doesn't lift weights or have strong arms and when you're talking about an animal you're butchering for meat, the arm isn't good enough to judge. The bulk of the meat comes from the body and you have to see how lean or fatty the body is.


    There's not any way Bobby COULD kill Dick. Maybe he could have used the weapon but it was one shot and if he failed they would have been screwed. Maybe he could have carried a decoy weapon, maybe they all could have, but then they needed someone to be thedistractionand when the cards were down they wouldn't be able to trust Bobby to not govengefuland ruin everything. Oh and if he was in someone's body what about them?


    The thing about Bobby is that he became very popular right away so they started using him. The more popular he became the more they used him. I don't think he was as bad as Ash (who was pointless because before him Sam was doing the same thing himself so why bring in another guy they have to go and see to do all that stuff). At least with Bobby they were turning to him for things they ACTUALLY wouldn't have known about. Apprently, prior to season one Sam and Dean had mostly dealt with ghosts and knew how to handle that. When demons started showing they didn't know jack so they turned to Bobby (who was a demon hunter by trade and knew a lot about them). Then they turned to him for more obscure creatures (such as a Trickster). I don't really recall them turning to him for something that SHOULD know about.


    That said they wanted to cut back on his role so there was no real way to do that other than kill him (or maybe have him go missing but that would be John all over again).

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [35]May 19, 2012
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    trans8010 wrote:


    vampman87 wrote:


    As expected, Dick got killed (pretty easily, too) but what I don't really agree with is that it signals the end of the Leviathan threat. Crowley mentioned that the Leviathan's main weakness is they only have one king, and with the two Leviathans who had any other power (Dr. Gaines and Edgar) dead, the Levis will basically be reduced to a mere monster-of-the-week status, but what he failed to mention is that the Levis still have control over the most powerful people on the planet. And Dick's assistant Susan is still alive, she might be able to regroup the monsters and make them actually SCARY again!


    Dean and Cas are now (SPOILER) stuck in Purgatory... This was an awesome cliffhanger ending because it has sooooo much potential. Every monster that Dean fought in the past can potentially come back for revenge, and I'm hoping they bring back some old favorites, like Madison the werewolf, Lenore the vampire, the Wendigo, Dean's Amazon daughter, the Phoenix, or (God I hope she comes back) EVE!




    The problem is the Leviathan were never scary to begin with. Sure they ate a couple of people, and assumed their form but for the most part, their characters were shrouded in mystery. They didnt do anything that outlandish, or remotely horrifying until the last six episodes and by that point fans tired of them. They weren't even that different from demons even though they claim to be. Their true form is of black matter, that possess people although there are some differences from demons their intial appearances they were thought of as a super demon. Their master plan wasn't effective in scaring those because there wasnt enough build up to it. This was felt like 2 seasons of material condensed into 1. The end result was sloppy.

    An awesome season would have Dean confront those he killed in previous years really? Cmon this show has rehashed enough storylines plus getting those actors back especially Emmanuelle may be a bit tough and costly, no I expect it would be more like Smallville season 9(?) when Clark was trapped in the phantom zone a bunch of new enemies and ghosts hunted him. Expect that.


    Now THAT would be lame. A chance for some angry monsters to get even and we get a bunch of no names and never saw before monsters. That would be super lame (pun intended since you brought up "Smallville")

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [36]May 19, 2012
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    mynameisjohnas wrote:


    Good episode and, while not the best I've ever seen, an acceptable season finale (sue me, I'm a TV snob). Highlights for me are as follows:


    -Loved watching Crowley and Dick wrangle over their agreement (you could tell that while Dick was no novice in the legal department, Crowley was the more experienced- Roman looked like he was getting seriously annoyed by the time morning had arrived.)


    -The middle was a little slow, and like Vampman, I too would have liked to have seen Bobby's reaction as he burned, but other than that it was a decent season finale upon first viewing. You can tell Cas feels at least a little responsible given his reaction to Bobby's exit, he just doesn't (or at least didn't at that point) know how to express it. His reaction to it might also have played a part in him finally listening to Dean's request for help.


    -Watching everyone's reaction to Castiel's new personality, and his reactions to their reactions ("Honey?") is priceless.


    -While killing Dick did seem a little easy, at least the writers did add in a bit of a misdirect before they allowed it to happen, just so it wasn't too easy. His pulsing, while a little video game(ish), was cool to watch if for no other reason than the special effects used for it.


    -Turns out I was wrong about the boys needing Lucifer's blood instead of Crowley's, but boy am I glad I was. I was half expecting this at the end of the last season finale, but better late than never. As Libra said, Dean has been to both Heaven and Hell, so it stands to reason he'd eventually end up in Purgatory. Likewise, not only will both characters be faced against everything they ever sent there, but on the upside, they might find a few friendly faces we've been wondering about for a very long time- specifically John and Mary (or at least Mary if not John since he didn't burn up like most ghosts do and could be in Heaven already).


    You would really want to watch Bobbywritheand suffer whileburning. I was actually glad we didn't have to see that. Besides with what we have seen we can imagine it much better and the reactions of Sam, Dean and Cas were more important than seeing that.


    We know that, according to Ash, neither Mary nor John are in Heaven and since neither were really human when they kicked they SHOULD be there. That also means that Bobby COULD be there and Gordon should certainly be there being a vamp when he kicked.

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  • Avatar of gatoraderising

    gatoraderising

    [37]May 19, 2012
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    Thought this was a great end to season 7. Bobby's gone for good this time and I liked how it was his choice to leave before he went crazy.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [38]May 19, 2012
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    trans8010 wrote:


    Thinking about it some more while it does seem interesting that Dean will now face countless creatures he's put there, I just cant help but wonder how those creature's souls end up in purgatory. Purgatory hasnt really been explained too well, but I assume the soul when released from a dead body automatically is sent there, but if God created purgatory to keep the leviathan there from escaping how would letting something in not weaken that doorway somehow? I would assume it's one of those things that once it was closed it could not be opened and if so was there a special barrier in place that prevents any from leaving but allows those to enter kind of like a roach motel.

    As for John and Mary they're human spirits they shouldn't be in purgatory. Although it's clear that John and Mary have yet to be found in heaven, that doesnt mean they are not there. Ash said there is like 10 billion heavens in there and he had yet to find them. He's only been there for a short time. Add to that Mary's sacrifice in the first season episode Home. Mary destroyed herself or so I thought to kill the entity from harming those in her house esspecially her boys. Now I could be wrong, but I doubt she exists.


    There wouldn't be much point in having Ash mention them not being there if it isn't going to pay off at some point and this seems the most likely manner.


    Yeah, think of it as a roach motel. There's a way in but no way out (at least normally). Part of the issue might be the mystery of the location. A lot of mystical means of travel require knowing where you're leaving from and where you're going to. If you don't know it won't work or you will end up somewhere else (usuallyat random).

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    libra113

    [39]May 19, 2012
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    RichardCarlso wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    RichardCarlso wrote:
    Hildetorr wrote:


    Dean trapped in Purgatory I did not see that coming


    The shows writers and producers sure love to hit us with the unexpected.
    He's been to Heaven AND Hell so I guess it was the next stop on his other worlds tour.


    Now Sam gets to spend the summer alone trying to take out what left of the Leviathans and working out just where Dean and Cas went.


    Looks like Purgatory is even worse than Hell, and the most evil end up in Purgatory. Thats going to be a hard sell for the writers. But I'm pleased with the episode and it had a great ending. About the only complaint I had was with how it ended for Bobby. It was a lackluster return for the character, and the show would have been better off not bringing him back at all than just throwing the character under the bus like that.
    Well, it's like when they were Heaven. What they/we see isn't what it's really like just the best their minds can understand it. It's a common theme in horror/sci-fi when dealing with places like that (Star Trek used it for the Q Continuum once or twice).


    As for Bobby I can only assume they did it just to set up for him to show up in Purgatory and help Dean out.

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    libra113

    [40]May 19, 2012
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    trans8010 wrote:
    RichardCarlso wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    RichardCarlso wrote:
    Hildetorr wrote:


    Dean trapped in Purgatory I did not see that coming


    The shows writers and producers sure love to hit us with the unexpected.
    He's been to Heaven AND Hell so I guess it was the next stop on his other worlds tour.


    Now Sam gets to spend the summer alone trying to take out what left of the Leviathans and working out just where Dean and Cas went.


    Looks like Purgatory is even worse than Hell, and the most evil end up in Purgatory. Thats going to be a hard sell for the writers. But I'm pleased with the episode and it had a great ending. About the only complaint I had was with how it ended for Bobby. It was a lackluster return for the character, and the show would have been better off not bringing him back at all than just throwing the character under the bus like that.
    I have to agree. Bobby was one of those characters that had more significance to the show than Cas, and while Cas has his chance at redemption Bobby just walks around bitching and moaning. Seriously why did they bring him back if they were not going to utilize his character? Sera has once again proved what she does best is take memorable characters and poorly rub them out. Along with effectively and a damn lazy way of ending the civil war between the Angels, Cas will go nanners and wipe them out, well ok Sera what about the survivors they are still up there without no guidance and what about Raph? I'm pretty sure the Archangel isnt dead Cas just tore in half his meat suit, when Angels die they emit black goo or white light, this didnt happen with Raph, so I guess he's still up there or hiding down here maybe. whatever Sera took that storyline and with one line of dialogue they've been wiped out. The leviathan marched into heaven and killed all the surviving angels? Can they march into heaven? We dont know.
    I doubt it. If Raph was still alive we would know by now. Besides, Raph looked really scared, Cas had a major axe to grind and was pretty much all powerful. I don't see Cas allowing him to live unless he locked Raph up somewhere to slowly and painfully suffer for all eternity.

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