Official Discussion Thread: Swan Song (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of SatanicChild12

    SatanicChild12

    [181]May 14, 2010
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    I like that Chuck could be God, since I see him as being a perfect God for the Supernatural universe, imperfect and awesome. But I can see why many feel cheated, since there were nothing more than throwaway comments that pointed to him maybe being God. For most, that's not enough.
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  • Avatar of knoffihoffi

    knoffihoffi

    [182]May 14, 2010
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    LordSothe wrote:


    knoffihoffi wrote:


    Hello everyone,


    Ok guys, here comes something most of you seem to miss on your search for God:


    "...No one gave two craps about her. But they should have. because that 1967 Chevrolet Impala would turn out to be the most important car--no, the most important object--in pretty much the whole universe."


    Chuck does not to speak of the car as car, but as object. And what´s possibly the most important "object" in "in pretty much the whole universe" ? Yeah, your right, it could be said it´s God.


    To merely think of God showing up in a human form is quite narrow minded.


    This "car" protected and accompanied them on their whole journey, and it gave Sam, in the end, the strength to beat Lucifer, by giving off a nice bright glow (oha!) and showing him all that is and was dear to Sam.



    "maybe they never really had a roof and four walls but they were never, in fact, homeless."


    In God we dwell...



    (just read the signs )


    Greetings!



    God's been around a lot longer then the Impala has. While the car isn't much older than 40, God is at least several millennia. I guess you could argue that he took the car's form after it was built, but that begs the question of why it was built in the first place? Why didn't he just pull it out of nowhere?

    Chuck, on the other hand, makes much more sense. We already know he's a recluse; he writes under a pen name, rarely leaves his home, and has no known friends or relatives (other than Becky, who "didn't work out"). God could have been living as Chuck for centuries and no one would have noticed. Plus, we already know he was watching Sam and Dean through his "visions."


    And finally, Joshua said that God is lonely. For Chuck, this makes sense. He lives by himself, never goes out, and doesn't seem to have much of a life outside his writing. If God was the Impala, however, he wouldn't be lonely -He'd be spending hours every day with Sam and Dean.


    Hello, I really stick to my interpretation of the car/object/God theory, but (oh how I hate buts ) I must admit I now find Chuck complaining about tying up loose ends and so on a bit strange.


    I for one expect of an Prophet to merely write down/speak of the things that will surly happen (somehow). It´s a person you can compare to one reading an FINISHED book or seeing an already finished film and telling about it. A Narrator.


    But surely no Prophet has to hassle with the problem of tying up loose ends, for then he would actively engage in the happenings, which would only the the so called false prophets do, cause they try to write their own "story".


    For a true Prophet, everything in itself is the perfect end, cause so shall it be. I am not quite certain IF Chuck actually did tie up some loose ends or was just bi***ing about it (it´s really not obvious in this episodes end), but if he did the first, he can only be God cause only God could tie up loose ends for real, or a false Prophet, which is absolutly ridiculous.


    I for one am of the opinion, that Chuck was only bi***ing about "his readers expectations" and is "solely" a Prophet.


    How often have we seen the brothers vanish with the help of Demons, Angels and even one time God´s intervention? yeah, often.


    To take a person (trusted Prophet) to somewhere else (hopefully Paradise ) after his finished work is one of the easy exercises of otherworldly creatures, as seen in many episodes before.


    Greetings!

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  • Avatar of JosephShoemaker

    JosephShoemaker

    [183]May 14, 2010
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    GreenyFool wrote:


    Dare2Devil88 wrote:
    Name :God Actor :Rob Benedict Dates :The Beginning Of Time - ? Location Earth (currently) Occupation Deity, The Creator. Episodes 5.22 Swan Song CHUCK IS GOD!!!!ok ppl just deal with it.Its been confirmed.


    Oh boy! An improparly formatted block of information! What a reliable source! Please link to the source where it was apparently verified...



    I'm guessing he got that from this site. But considering that site is just a Wiki site that anyone can edit, I would just take it with a grain of salt. It does appear that Chuck is God, but I personally don't like that idea at all. But we'll just have to find out I guess.


    Remember when Sam and Dean first met Chuck though? He said, "I'm some sort of God... a cruel capricious God." Maybe there was more to that line than we thought.

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  • Avatar of aaronmcc

    aaronmcc

    [184]May 14, 2010
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    I liked it more or less. Not sure about Chuck being God though.



    I'll be happy to watch season 6 so long as the first episode isn't Lisa being pinned to the ceiling and bursting into flames.

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  • Avatar of tanneretc

    tanneretc

    [185]May 14, 2010
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    i just watched it, I really think last 6 mins was just Chuck making stuff up, to try and get a happy ending or something, because otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever.


    (Dean would choose peace over freedom for 7 minutes, max, unless he took a nap)


    I was very suprised that it didn't end with Dean sitting in a field all alone covered in blood, i thought that was perfect.



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  • Avatar of Clarabell11

    Clarabell11

    [186]May 14, 2010
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    Gosh, so much whining.I loved it. I couldn't really see any other way it could've gone down. While the specific details suprised me (like a fool I thought either Cas or Bobby would die, so when the both bit it within minutes of each other I actually yelped), the story as a whole was pretty much what I expected. That's not necessarily a bad thing though. Like I said, it still kept me gripped.



    I'm also thinking S6 might pick up a year or so down the line. We don't know when the scene with Sam outside was. Lisa is wearing different clothes than in the scene where Dean first goes back to her, so it's not that same night. For all we know we've been given a peek at Dean's life further down the track. He still doesn't look happy.



    Chuck=God? Maybe not, but I'm fairly convinced. I did just realise too that he's the only one (as far as I recall, please correct me if i'm mistaken) that we've ever actually seen 'poof' away. We're given the impression of it all the time, but what we actually see is a clever camera shot (eg the camera pans from one side of Dean with an angel/demon/whatever further back, to the other side using Dean to obscure the one about to 'poof', then they're gone. Magic.). The camera stayed with Chuck and he 'poofed' in front of our eyes. Might not mean anything, but weirdly it may be what convinced me.



    One last thing: Army man = Sam's yellow crayon. The whole army men, legos, carving their intials made me squee like the shamelesslittle fan-girl I am Laughing

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  • Avatar of MaxCrazy7

    MaxCrazy7

    [187]May 14, 2010
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    You are kidding me while he was standing in front of that hole I would push him through it. Anyway we all know how that plan would work.
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  • Avatar of dimos222

    dimos222

    [188]May 14, 2010
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    It was a very good episode that gave an ending and a new start....



    Chuck being God fits almost perfectly.... As both Lucifer and Chuck said the "end" was a test - Luci thought it was for the two angel brothers , Chuck explained it was for the 2 human brothers (a test like Adam and Eve but in a more twisted way)... Also the fact that Castiel said near the end about God "He helped , maybe even more than we realized" fits nicely cause Chuck helped many ways and also as God He gave free will (or the illusion of free will) by not telling him what's going to happen...


    Supernatural is the only show that can make angels look bad and even Lucifer look good... His speech to Michel about avoiding the fight gave Lucifer a different side... He already have shown sings by telling earlier this season that he was punished by God "for loving Him too much" but after all that has happened after all this years he still has a good side , tries to avoid the fight tries to get the acceptance of his brother.


    Next season it will be interesting to see how Sam was brought back and why... Did God do it or he just become an angel. Is he Sam or is he back as Lucifer.... My prediction is that he won't be Lucifer since the devil war was supposed to end this season... I d like Sam being back as a normal person so the hunt will continue but it will be awesome if he had some angelic powers...


    I was only disappointed that there was no major death... Both Cas and Booby where brought back so did Sam , so Adam dying doesn't really strike me as a major death....


    The comments about the end and loose ends where kinda epic... The writer put his voice in the show , and he even teased some of the more demanding fans...


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  • Avatar of tanneretc

    tanneretc

    [189]May 14, 2010
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    People have been saying that they can't see how they can top Lucifer, but I've seen several heavy hints over last few episodes and longer that they intend to kill, or at least go after, God, which I'd quite like to see.


    Saying that though, I'd hope that the boys would be a bit more proactive next season, and maybe even put their thinking caps on occasionally!


    It would also be nice if they could fight some interesting baddies who weren't so powerful that they found it less hassle to give them cancer or syphilis than rough them up a bit, fisticuffs are always entertaining.

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  • Avatar of SohiHien

    SohiHien

    [190]May 14, 2010
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    Chuck is totally God at the end it's so obvious. As he finishes his narration talking about how hard it is to make an ending where everyone is happy and everything makes sense he looks totally different. He is in a clean white dress shirt and is nicely groomed instead of scruffy. He also looks different, he seems so sure and wise. His facial expression looks more calm and has that sorta ancient all knowing look that alot of the angels have but with more compassion, if that makes sense. He's happy with his work, and he knows what is to come, it is not the end. I knew even before he poofed away that Chuck wasn't the same Chuck anymore and was God.
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  • Avatar of Dare2Devil88

    Dare2Devil88

    [192]May 14, 2010
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    SohiHien wrote:
    Chuck is totally God at the end it's so obvious. As he finishes his narration talking about how hard it is to make an ending where everyone is happy and everything makes sense he looks totally different. He is in a clean white dress shirt and is nicely groomed instead of scruffy. He also looks different, he seems so sure and wise. His facial expression looks more calm and has that sorta ancient all knowing look that alot of the angels have but with more compassion, if that makes sense. He's happy with his work, and he knows what is to come, it is not the end. I knew even before he poofed away that Chuck wasn't the same Chuck anymore and was God.
    Finally someone gets it
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  • Avatar of dilking2002

    dilking2002

    [193]May 15, 2010
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    I LOVED this ep from soup to nuts! It was amazing to see everything play out in such an emotionally turbulent yet satisfying way. My personal favorite moment of the ep was at the beginning, with Lucifer quoting from "The Devil Went Down To Georgia". That moment set the tone of the rest of the episode for me. As always Mark Pellegrino plays Lucifer beautifully. And his signature how casual he makes the most VICIOUS acts. Cas's gruesome death at just a snap of his fingers. Much more chilling than any grand gesture.


    As for the fight between Michael & Lucifer not happening, it wasn't EVER going to happen. If you thought that it was going to get that far, you were deluding yourself. If that fight STARTED then the planet would be OVER. The whole point was to NEVER let the fight between Lucifer and Michael occur.


    I also LOVED how they resolved the storyline. Sam & Dean set in motion the events that let Lucifer out, and Sam & Dean stood together and took the steps necessary to put Lucifer back! Dean not being Michael's vessel only ENHANCED his role in the final moments. Because he proved what he told Pestilence's minion a couple eps back, it's HUMANS you have to be afraid of! And Dean, only human, brought forth the tools Sam needed to help him beat back the devil. And speaking of Dean, he didn't go back to Lisa JUST because Sam made him promise to. Sam made Dean promise to not waste his life trying to bring him back. Going to Lisa was a secondary thing.Plus, Dean was tired of hunting. He went to Lisa because he wanted to, Sam's promise just gave him an excuse to do it.


    I think Chuck as God is perfect. Kind of in the same vein as The Trickster as an archangel. Adding to its perfection is all the moments in the previous episodes. Sam & Dean intimidating Chuck into not publishing any more books! Chuck sitting there as Becky made googly eyes at Sam. The toilet paper conversation in the five years in the future ep!! And yes, even the ordering of the hookers. After all, God invented sex. Why shouldn't He enjoy it?And the line..."I'm the prophet... Chuck!"


    The ending of the show was fantastic in so many ways. One for providing a framework that elicits such amazing debate! For me, the most interesting angle comes from Castiel's last statement to Dean. Dean got exactly what he wanted. Freedom to do what he wants. Life on Earth going on as it has. He was dying for a family, and to not be in heaven reliving his "greatest hits". He got it all. The cost: Not being with Sam.


    Sam got exactly what he's wanted his entire life. He's on his own. Away from the "tyranny" of his family and the control & legacy of his father. He can be normal now, and not a freak. The cost: Dean.


    They got what they wanted, as payment for their services in putting Lucifer back in his cage. But like so many things in life, what they wanted didn't make them happy. That's why I think it was truly Sam Winchester standing under that light at the end. (Which burned out due to whatever mode of transportation got Sam there) It highlights the fact that the things the brothers SAY the want, even if they can fool themselves into believing they ACTUALLY want those things, aren't what they REALLY want. And that expression on Sam's face is due to the emotional turmoil of wanting to be with his brother but not being able to anymore.


    As for Season 6, I'll be right there on premiere night waiting with baited breath for the show to restart. What can they do? Lots of stuff. Adam's presence in the show brings up a powerful theme, namely the consequences of Hunting. As the bad ass Hunters they are, the Winchesters have racked up a HUGE list of enemies. Now that they've beaten Lucifer, they're most likely going to have to deal with a series of challengers. Supernatural baddies that want to take down the ones who put Lucifer back in the box.


    Plus, there's the "true believers" of the demon world who will wish to take revenge on the Winchesters for locking their "god", Lucifer, back up. In fact, I think that's what will force Dean back on the road. He's going to try to make a life with Lisa, and hopefully get to the point where he'll allow himself to be happy with her. But then supernatural badness will start coming at him. And after a little while, he'll come to the conclusion that he can't stay with her because he's always going to be a target.


    The other thread that I see coming up in Season 6 has also to do with the "things never really end" bit of Chuck's speech. Just because Lucifer is back in the box doesn't mean all the evil in the world is gone. The good fight does go on. The Winchesters took down Lucifer, and faced up the consequences of their mistakes. Cue the scene with the brothers standing at the trunk of the Impala. Dean tosses a gun into the trunk, and as Sam slams the trunk shut, Adam says "We've got work to do."

    Edited on 05/15/2010 12:26am
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  • Avatar of Katz_uk27

    Katz_uk27

    [194]May 15, 2010
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    It was sooo good and made me cry. Loved the use of mirrors for the Sam/Luci conversation.


    Heaven and Hell having their show down interrupted by the roar of the Impala great and Deans screw it approach with Rock of Ages.


    Dean and Sam brothers, protecting and looking out for each other till the end. Dean wouldn't let Sam die alone and Sam justs wants him to have a family. In contrast Michael and Lucifer get to play out their fight forever in the prison I thought that was fitting.


    Seriously people can't see why Dean went to Lisa, after all the stuff he has been through why would he want to hunt. He has been tired since before he went to hell, it may not be forever but he needs it right now. I think the Winchesters have given enough.


    The Impala, was great to have its back story running through the episode I have always loved that car but this really made it stand out it's their world and is part of them flaws and all. Great flashback as well.


    As the narrator Kripke is God of this universe and liked how he spoke to us directly in the episode, he is honest and understanding but its his story.


    Jared and Jensen did so well, can't wait to see where the writers take us next.

    Edited on 05/14/2010 11:30pm
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  • Avatar of Hildetorr

    Hildetorr

    [195]May 15, 2010
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    Hmm if Castiel is now in charge of Heaven wouldn't that mean he is quite possibly as strong as Lucifer and Michael now? If Castiel does appear next season it will be interesting to see how this turns out. With his strengh rivaling Lucifer and Michaels Castiel is now most likely the most powerful angel in Heaven.



    I really love how they done it with Castiel



    Castiel appears as a regular angel sent to Dean as a request from God. Castiel over time eventually loses his grace and has almost no Angelic powers. Then later promoted to the most powerful angel in Heaven by God himself. I wonder why God chose to make him as strong as Lucifer and Michael. IIRC Castiel has been the only Angel through the whole series who has never threatened to harm a human but help them. I guess God probably thought it serves Michael right if Castiel threw a molotav cocktail at him (Well we know by the end of the episode Castiel has become Gods favourite angel now)



    I suspect another reason why God made Castiel much stronger is with Michael and Gabriel gone (Not like Gabriel actually did anythign in Heaven) there are Archangels lacking. Raphael is probably still bound to the circle of Holy Fire when Dean and Castiel trapped him. So there are probably no archangels in Heaven at the time.

    Edited on 05/14/2010 11:54pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of englishshewolf

    englishshewolf

    [196]May 15, 2010
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    Hildetorr wrote:


    Hmm if Castiel is now in charge of Heaven wouldn't that mean he is quite possibly as strong as Lucifer and Michael now? If Castiel does appear next season it will be interesting to see how this turns out. With his strengh rivaling Lucifer and Michaels Castiel is now most likely the most powerful angel in Heaven.



    I really love how they done it with Castiel



    Castiel appears as a regular angel sent to Dean as a request from God. Castiel over time eventually loses his grace and has almost no Angelic powers. Then later promoted to the most powerful angel in Heaven by God himself. I wonder why God chose to make him as strong as Lucifer and Michael. IIRC Castiel has been the only Angel through the whole series who has never threatened to harm a human but help them. I guess God probably thought it serves Michael right if Castiel threw a molotav cocktail at him (Well we know by the end of the episode Castiel has become Gods favourite angel now)



    Is Cas much stronger??? I thought he was just back to full strength.


    I suspect another reason why God made Castiel much stronger is with Michael and Gabriel gone (Not like Gabriel actually did anythign in Heaven) there are Archangels lacking. Raphael is probably still bound to the circle of Holy Fire when Dean and Castiel trapped him. So there are probably no archangels in Heaven at the time.


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  • Avatar of carnaby12

    carnaby12

    [197]May 15, 2010
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    It wasn't the series finale or was it??? =/
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  • Avatar of roxieree

    roxieree

    [198]May 15, 2010
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    huh.


    it's been a really long time since i have posted anything on this board, but i kinda wanted to see people's reaction and after reading, i kinda wanna write. ;P


    ok, so this episode left me feeling very weird.


    first of all, i have to say that i think that this season lacked a flow in general, although it never lost its direction, but it just didn't move forward smoothly. each episode had its moments, and some scenes were truly awesome and memorable and very supernatural in a very winchetery way, but as much as i loved those scenes, i really think that they were very choppy ina big picture.


    The big picture that I think they were trying to draw for this season was mirroring Sam&Dean and Luci&Mikey. Well, they did okay with former, but they totally sucked at the latter. L&M's story was interesting only because they were trying to wear S&D for the prom not because they were trying to destroy the earth.


    Which is why i thought that this episodewas kind of anticlimatic.like,Michael and Lucifer meetingat the cemetery and did anyone really feel like they were gonna start the battle that was gonna torchhalf the planet??i don't really think so. no.


    But on theother hand,with the wincheter storyline,Dean didn't leave Sam, Sam came back because he had always had Dean,and Dean went to Lisa because he promised Sam to, and all these things make sense to me and I can feel for both of them and it was a satisfying story.


    So I am notsold but content at the same time. I don't know what to do. lol


    But I like that the Lucifer arc is done. I really think that the things got way to big to deal with. So I like that we can start afresh.


    By the way, the I-don't-know-what-he-is!Sam looked very blank to me. like empty? I'm thinking amnesia?

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  • Avatar of roxieree

    roxieree

    [199]May 15, 2010
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    carnaby12 wrote:
    It wasn't the series finale or was it??? =/


    no it's not XD as far as I know, there is a season 6, thus the clifhunger at the end... it that was the end for real i would go nuts.

    Edited on 05/15/2010 7:44am
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  • Avatar of SohiHien

    SohiHien

    [200]May 15, 2010
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    roxieree wrote:

    huh.


    it's been a really long time since i have posted anything on this board, but i kinda wanted to see people's reaction and after reading, i kinda wanna write. ;P


    ok, so this episode left me feeling very weird.


    first of all, i have to say that i think that this season lacked a flow in general, although it never lost its direction, but it just didn't move forward smoothly. each episode had its moments, and some scenes were truly awesome and memorable and very supernatural in a very winchetery way, but as much as i loved those scenes, i really think that they were very choppy ina big picture.


    The big picture that I think they were trying to draw for this season was mirroring Sam&Dean and Luci&Mikey. Well, they did okay with former, but they totally sucked at the latter. L&M's story was interesting only because they were trying to wear S&D for the prom not because they were trying to destroy the earth.


    Which is why i thought that this episodewas kind of anticlimatic.like,Michael and Lucifer meetingat the cemetery and did anyone really feel like they were gonna start the battle that was gonna torchhalf the planet??i don't really think so. no.


    But on theother hand,with the wincheter storyline,Dean didn't leave Sam, Sam came back because he had always had Dean,and Dean went to Lisa because he promised Sam to, and all these things make sense to me and I can feel for both of them and it was a satisfying story.


    So I am notsold but content at the same time. I don't know what to do. lol


    But I like that the Lucifer arc is done. I really think that the things got way to big to deal with. So I like that we can start afresh.


    By the way, the I-don't-know-what-he-is!Sam looked very blank to me. like empty? I'm thinking amnesia?



    OMG you are a genious!! Amnesia would be perfect! He has no memory but he feels he should know who that guy in the window is. The brothers would kinda have to start over and get back on the road to try and find a way to get his memory back. I like it.
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