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Official Discussion Thread: The Third Man (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of mynameisjohnas

    mynameisjohnas

    [41]Oct 9, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    aussiemovieguy wrote:
    tbh, im getting so sick of Sam and Dean and having issues with one another. I mean cmon, we already know they keep secrets from each other, that they dont listen to each other, why do they have to keep on with this crappy "over the roof of the car", or "sitting in the motel room" drama moments where its clear something is wrong we just have to wait for them to argue 3 or 4 times before the truth comes out. besides that this episode was much better and seemed to be much more like the season 5 supernatural.
    How else would you expect guys like them to handle situations like this? Dean has always been the stoic type and, in my experiance, they're the type who keep all their emotion bottled up until it explodes (useally violently or at least verbally). Sam USED to be better but it takes more than one to have a converastion like that and NOW he's more like Dean in keeping things to himself. They HAVE to work through this path becasue it's their nature, changing that out of story convience would be untrue to their nature.



    While I respect that opinions are entirely subjective, and that it's cool you feel that way, I have to completely disagree with you and side with aussie movieguy on this one. The whole tension between Dean and Sam thing has been beaten to death and it's not interesting to watch the way it's being portrayed right now. To be honest it's not so much that I have a problem with the brothers having tension, it's just that the way the writers choose the setting and dialogue to explain said tension to the audience. It feels formulaic and contrived. "Oh look, we're sitting by the Impala. Let's discuss our feelings and explain to the audience what's going on between our characters because they're stupid and need to have things spelled out for them like 10 year olds despite our situation being quite clear from our actions earlier on in the episode and earlier episodes that have passed". Once again this is just my opinion but having to spell things out verbatum for an audience is one the few things that, for me, keeps this show from being on par with other high quality shows on TV, both past and present. Don't get me wrong, SPN has great story lines, great characters, great mystery, great action and great philosophy, but the playing out the the story lines in each individual episode sometimes feels too forced. With the exception of the season premieres and season finales in almost every episode I expect to see a murder at the beggining which the brothers will have to solve, research and discussion between the brothers, a slight twist in the plot, a climax of the episode where the bothers and a few other characters help fight the antagonist, and then a denouement where the brothers discuss their feelings and remind the audience of the bigger picture. Now, this is certainly done in a way that makes it better than most series on TV, and there is the odd episode where they don't follow that kind of path, but it still feels like the show is too afraid to stray from a safe formula that has worked for it in the past. Feel free to blast me for saying all that, just my two cents.


    That being said, I still did enjoy this episode. Nice addition to the story which they can use later on with the missing weapons and I liked Balthezar's character. Cas, as usual, is great and his exasperation with the rest of the angels (both Balthezar and those on Raphael's side) was well played. Kind of makes me wonder if there are less angels on Cas's side than he says.


    On another matter, did anyone else find any similarities between Balthezar and Crowley (who I still believe is actually Death)? Both morally ambigious, both collect souls, both have a similar accent, etc. Or am I just looking too much into that?

    Edited on 10/09/2010 12:07pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of presario111

    presario111

    [42]Oct 9, 2010
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    im kinda sad that they destroyed ralphs vessel like and now there gonna have to find someone else. i mean i thought the guy playing ralph was perfect he had such an intemidating presence about him.

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  • Avatar of Merlin4421

    Merlin4421

    [43]Oct 9, 2010
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    I liked the episode, but it still seems off and I can't put my finger on it. The dialogue everything seems off...I dunno maybe i'm just annoyed I have to watch it in SD on the crappy CW.

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  • Avatar of CaptainHarkness

    CaptainHarkness

    [44]Oct 9, 2010
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    Best episode of the season so far. Loved having Castiel back. But I do think they need to do something about their opening recaps. Raphael coming back would have been a huge surprise had it not been for the recap. Same thing happened when Lisa came back in season 5.

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  • Avatar of caz74

    caz74

    [45]Oct 9, 2010
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    Loved this episode. I must admit I liked it when Cas responded to Dean and said they have a deeper bond.

    Love that they are both back inthe Impala now. Hope I am not the only one, but I thought it just didn't look right not seeing the amulet onDean. I know it seems strange but throughout the motel scene I just kept thinking wherw's the amulet! As said prev, really loved this episode and cannot wait for more.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [46]Oct 9, 2010
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    mynameisjohnas wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    aussiemovieguy wrote:
    tbh, im getting so sick of Sam and Dean and having issues with one another. I mean cmon, we already know they keep secrets from each other, that they dont listen to each other, why do they have to keep on with this crappy "over the roof of the car", or "sitting in the motel room" drama moments where its clear something is wrong we just have to wait for them to argue 3 or 4 times before the truth comes out. besides that this episode was much better and seemed to be much more like the season 5 supernatural.
    How else would you expect guys like them to handle situations like this? Dean has always been the stoic type and, in my experiance, they're the type who keep all their emotion bottled up until it explodes (useally violently or at least verbally). Sam USED to be better but it takes more than one to have a converastion like that and NOW he's more like Dean in keeping things to himself. They HAVE to work through this path becasue it's their nature, changing that out of story convience would be untrue to their nature.



    While I respect that opinions are entirely subjective, and that it's cool you feel that way, I have to completely disagree with you and side with aussie movieguy on this one. The whole tension between Dean and Sam thing has been beaten to death and it's not interesting to watch the way it's being portrayed right now. To be honest it's not so much that I have a problem with the brothers having tension, it's just that the way the writers choose the setting and dialogue to explain said tension to the audience. It feels formulaic and contrived. "Oh look, we're sitting by the Impala. Let's discuss our feelings and explain to the audience what's going on between our characters because they're stupid and need to have things spelled out for them like 10 year olds despite our situation being quite clear from our actions earlier on in the episode and earlier episodes that have passed". Once again this is just my opinion but having to spell things out verbatum for an audience is one the few things that, for me, keeps this show from being on par with other high quality shows on TV, both past and present. Don't get me wrong, SPN has great story lines, great characters, great mystery, great action and great philosophy, but the playing out the the story lines in each individual episode sometimes feels too forced. With the exception of the season premieres and season finales in almost every episode I expect to see a murder at the beggining which the brothers will have to solve, research and discussion between the brothers, a slight twist in the plot, a climax of the episode where the bothers and a few other characters help fight the antagonist, and then a denouement where the brothers discuss their feelings and remind the audience of the bigger picture. Now, this is certainly done in a way that makes it better than most series on TV, and there is the odd episode where they don't follow that kind of path, but it still feels like the show is too afraid to stray from a safe formula that has worked for it in the past. Feel free to blast me for saying all that, just my two cents.


    That being said, I still did enjoy this episode. Nice addition to the story which they can use later on with the missing weapons and I liked Balthezar's character. Cas, as usual, is great and his exasperation with the rest of the angels (both Balthezar and those on Raphael's side) was well played. Kind of makes me wonder if there are less angels on Cas's side than he says.


    On another matter, did anyone else find any similarities between Balthezar and Crowley (who I still believe is actually Death)? Both morally ambigious, both collect souls, both have a similar accent, etc. Or am I just looking too much into that?



    I concur. That's what I said in my previous post. I think it's a good episode, but these brotherly dialogues are just too repetitive and formulaic.

    What is also formulaic is how they put the most important characters at the endings of the episodes. Like, Lucifer, Raphael or Gabriel, or any other very important character - you anticipate them during the episode, then they appear, say a few lines, and then disappear - all in a minute! Sometimes that can be excruciating, and it is what ruined Lucifer in last season. We were supposed to sympathize with him, but no one really talked about him, we didn't hear story from his point of view.

    It's like I read "Crime and Punishment" and actually sympathized with the murderer because I read how much he is suffering and how that is already too much a punishment. Maybe if we had known more about Lucifer we'd have started to sympathize.

    As per Raphael - they brought him for a minute and destroyed him - pretty much like in his first appearance.
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  • Avatar of gyrados12786

    gyrados12786

    [47]Oct 9, 2010
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    Interesting episode overall, one that had Ben Edlund written all over it. Seeing Sam shirtless with a hooker was a little bit strange to me, but I didn't mind seeing him shirtless. For once it was a pleasure to have an episode sans Grandpa Campbell and those annoying cousins. Totally loved the part where Dean cut Sam off as they were going to interrogate the witnesses. But there is definitely something up with Sam this season, and this episode proved what I've already been suspecting. Hearing Sam lie outright to Dean for the second time this season, was what bothered me the most. Obviously whatever happened to Sam in hell is so bad that he is denying his feelings.


    Balthazar is a very refreshing character, and I look forward to seeing more from him later on.


    mynameisjohnas wrote:
    Nice addition to the story which they can use later on with the missing weapons and I liked Balthezar's character. Cas, as usual, is great and his exasperation with the rest of the angels (both Balthezar and those on Raphael's side) was well played. Kind of makes me wonder if there are less angels on Cas's side than he says.



    On another matter, did anyone else find any similarities between Balthezar and Crowley (who I still believe is actually Death)? Both morally ambigious, both collect souls, both have a similar accent, etc. Or am I just looking too much into that?


    Actually yes, now that you mention it I do find some similarities between the two. Both of them do kinda seem to have their own agenda, though it will be interesting to find out more about Crowley. Balthazar seems to have a rather philosophical, manifest destiny type of air about him when it comes to approaching conflict. But his motive for stealing heaven's armory and pawning them off to humans for their souls didn't quite add up. Something tells me that like Crowley, he may have a bigger part in the overall mythology than what he appears to do initially.



    Cass really needs to brush up on his social skills this season. But his conversation with Sam was priceless and had me laughing the whole way through. Also, it was very cleaver how the show brought back Raphael as a villain this season. Though I'm not sure how his plan to reinstate Armageddon will work out with Lucifer back in the cages, and the boys still holding the key. Unless someone or something manages to steal the rings from the boys, I'm pretty sure the angels are gonna be hard-pressed in their plan for the apocalypse. Also, I'm kinda wondering if maybe Raphael's "Panic Button Plan" might have something to do with why Sam was raised from the dead. Although, it does seem that Castiel would've heard something if Raphael was involved in bringing Sam back.


    Does anyone think that Raphael might have something to do with Grandpa Campbell being brought back from the dead? Somehow it seems to me like maybe Raphael or one of his goons might've been the person Samuel was talking to on the phone in the last episode. Additionally, capturing and populating hordes of monsters might prove useful for someone trying to throw an apocalypse.

    Edited on 10/09/2010 6:35pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of WCSU1987

    WCSU1987

    [48]Oct 9, 2010
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    So with Sammy what if he has no clue what is going on. Sam fell into a cage and to let him out someone had to open that cage. What if the other 2 in the cage hitched a ride with Sam?

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  • Avatar of gyrados12786

    gyrados12786

    [49]Oct 9, 2010
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    WCSU1987 wrote:

    So with Sammy what if he has no clue what is going on. Sam fell into a cage and to let him out someone had to open that cage. What if the other 2 in the cage hitched a ride with Sam?



    If something hitched a ride with Sammy when he was pulled out of the cage I think we would've at least seen some hints. Even though Sam is acting weird this season, it doesn't exactly seem like he's totally evil.
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  • Avatar of idjitlovers

    idjitlovers

    [50]Oct 9, 2010
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    Absolutely loved this episode! Have to say it's a great relief as the season premiere did scare me a little. I think credit to everyone involved in the show is due, given how they went the extra mile with the scenes in this one. Usually there's only 3 or 4 settings, and mostly talking heads but I think they had more locations and action sequences this time around (love how Cas and unnamed Raphael minion fell of the building).


    Love Balthazar. I think he's Ben Edlund's second attempt at "Bella." LOL.


    I only have one issue with this episode. How come Dean didn't try harder to stop Castiel when he was torturing the kid? Dean as I know him would do the angel-be-gone spell thingie with his blood on the wall to try to stop an innocent from being hurt --- especially now that he's raising a child of his own. I don't think Dean is that soft. The director could have tried harder to show how Dean was resisting Cas' actions. His attempt seemed half-hearted and convenient.


    I agree with the person who said they shouldn't have killed off Raphael's vessel. He was a good actor. Very intimidating.


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  • Avatar of dman_dustin

    dman_dustin

    [51]Oct 9, 2010
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    I disagree with all the "negative" comments on the brother interaction at the end.


    You can argue that as an audience you don't need/want to hear it. but is that actually the best argument against them?


    I mean take this episode for example. Dean knows something is wrong with Sam, and Dean wants to know what the "hell" is going on with Sam. Why would they not show Dean's concerns verbally to Sam? I mean after all Dean had concerns with Sam and Dean wanted answers, how is Dean going to get answers if he just looks the other way (just for the sake of not annoying the TV audience with another boring talk).


    And who knows maybe Sam's eyes could've turned black and Sam responds with "Nothing, Dean, nothing is wrong with me at all *cue evil laugh*), show Dean with a shocked face followed by a "to be continued" sure it probably won't happen at all, and it could be as simple as Sam's soul was "fractured" or something from the transfer out of the cage that caused him to act differently. but still we can't know if we ignore the ending few moments of the episode.

    Edited on 10/09/2010 9:18pm
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  • Avatar of AnimeMadness

    AnimeMadness

    [52]Oct 9, 2010
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    The episode was amazing. Loved Cas! I can't wait to see how they tie in everything together this season. The only thing is I was a little disappointed to see Dean doesn't have Castiel's handprints on his shoulders anymore... Though the part where Castiel said he shares a more "profound bond" with Dean made me squeal like a fangirl. My roommate thinks I'm insane. XD She just doesn't understand Supernatural. And I really wish I wasn't eating during the part with the boils... Ugh... Balthazar really is like Bela, he reminds me a lil of Crowely too. Hope to see more of him soon. And Castiel too! It seems like he's not going to be in any of the episodes coming up. T__T
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [53]Oct 9, 2010
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    I liked this episode. It's been long since any horror managed to really scared me, and while the first scene wasn't scary, it was effectively disgusting. Actually all three Egyptian curses were very imaginative, so kudos to that!

    Raphael is back, and he is a traditionalist who wants to restart the Apocalypse? How? Does he really intend to open up Lucifer's cage and release both brothers + Adam? But again, how? Now there aren't those typical seals I guess, and no Lilith for the final seal. Actually, I think now it will be even easier to release Lucifer next time.

    Balthazar is an interesting addition. Very insightful of you Libra to call him new Bela. He really is a new Bela. And he collects valuable stuff, such as Heaven's weapons, people's souls... What for? I instantly remembered how Grandpa Campbell talked with someone and promised to wrap it (like a package - he meant a monster, I think). Could Balthazar be this mysterious person for whom Samuel is working? Angels can resurrect people, and Balthazar could do just that.

    I don't trust him that he is doing it "just because".

    Question remains about who brought Sam back. Castiel does not know. Sam doesn't know - or pretends not to know. That flickering light is still in my memory and for me it meant that there's something more wrong with Sam than his indifferent personality.

    And while we're at Sam, the whole thing "Sam got back changed" or "not 100% pure Sammy" becomes a bit boring. It goes from season to season, maybe they should have given us relief by doing that with Dean. Not to mention that Dean is more and more infallible. He always does the right thing.

    I agree about constant arguing between the brothers. Even if that is the only way for them to function, we don't have to see it in every episode at the standard time two minutes before the ending of the episode. I just know how almost every episode ends, with them arguing about them being brothers, but one of them doesn't understand the other, blah blah blah. It is logical, it can be derived from the plot, but I don't see why it must be put, especially if it doesn't further the story, which it doesn't in half the cases. I agree with you Libs and with your creative writing teacher about showing and not explaining. They showed unemotional Sam, why waste two minutes on Dean pointing that out again?

    I usually mentally tune out during these last two or three minutes, 'cause mostly I don't hear anything new or important for the plot, and save myself from listening to rehashed argues all over again.

    But this was on a side note actually. I pretty much enjoyed the episode and like where the show is going so far.
    Well, that is a good point maybe HE is the one who brought back gramps and set him up with the cousins to collect Alphas, or maybe it was Raph and the Alphas have something to do with restarting the end of the world. Yeah, you're right that it's bad that the talk is ALWAYS in the same point of the episode and seems to be the same converastion restated in diffrent ways over and over again.

    It CAN be difficult to work that stuff into a script thought. I'm doing one right now where I have to introduce a handful of new characters and start to establish who they are and all that and it's hard to walk that line between boring the audience or not getting the job done.

    Maybe it would be nice if they started an episode with a little talk then sort of spun the talk into what's going on (maybe they will in the episode that's coming 'soon'). Hard to say.

    You're right they need another way to do the job, maybe something will shake out before it's too late. Still, this is a situaiton has been plauging the show for a long time now (at least back to Dean's deal and Sam wanting to push the issue and Dean not wanting to talk about it) so it's likely to not change TOO soon.

    Oh and about Belthazar being the new Bela, I don't know if it's intentional or if it's an accident but he's got a British accent, that line about being a theif could just as easily have come out of her mouth (indeed didn't she have a line like that at one point). He's so Bela I would almost think it was her in some kind of disquise but it wouldn't make any sense.
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  • Avatar of sunnykimmy

    sunnykimmy

    [54]Oct 9, 2010
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    caz74 wrote:
    Loved this episode. I must admit I liked it when Cas responded to Dean and said they have a deeper bond. Love that they are both back inthe Impala now. Hope I am not the only one, but I thought it just didn't look right not seeing the amulet onDean. I know it seems strange but throughout the motel scene I just kept thinking wherw's the amulet! As said prev, really loved this episode and cannot wait for more.


    The amulet that he got from Sam and whichwas supposed to glow or get warm when close to God? I think Dean threw that away.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [55]Oct 9, 2010
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    mynameisjohnas wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    aussiemovieguy wrote:
    tbh, im getting so sick of Sam and Dean and having issues with one another. I mean cmon, we already know they keep secrets from each other, that they dont listen to each other, why do they have to keep on with this crappy "over the roof of the car", or "sitting in the motel room" drama moments where its clear something is wrong we just have to wait for them to argue 3 or 4 times before the truth comes out. besides that this episode was much better and seemed to be much more like the season 5 supernatural.
    How else would you expect guys like them to handle situations like this? Dean has always been the stoic type and, in my experiance, they're the type who keep all their emotion bottled up until it explodes (useally violently or at least verbally). Sam USED to be better but it takes more than one to have a converastion like that and NOW he's more like Dean in keeping things to himself. They HAVE to work through this path becasue it's their nature, changing that out of story convience would be untrue to their nature.



    While I respect that opinions are entirely subjective, and that it's cool you feel that way, I have to completely disagree with you and side with aussie movieguy on this one. The whole tension between Dean and Sam thing has been beaten to death and it's not interesting to watch the way it's being portrayed right now. To be honest it's not so much that I have a problem with the brothers having tension, it's just that the way the writers choose the setting and dialogue to explain said tension to the audience. It feels formulaic and contrived. "Oh look, we're sitting by the Impala. Let's discuss our feelings and explain to the audience what's going on between our characters because they're stupid and need to have things spelled out for them like 10 year olds despite our situation being quite clear from our actions earlier on in the episode and earlier episodes that have passed". Once again this is just my opinion but having to spell things out verbatum for an audience is one the few things that, for me, keeps this show from being on par with other high quality shows on TV, both past and present. Don't get me wrong, SPN has great story lines, great characters, great mystery, great action and great philosophy, but the playing out the the story lines in each individual episode sometimes feels too forced. With the exception of the season premieres and season finales in almost every episode I expect to see a murder at the beggining which the brothers will have to solve, research and discussion between the brothers, a slight twist in the plot, a climax of the episode where the bothers and a few other characters help fight the antagonist, and then a denouement where the brothers discuss their feelings and remind the audience of the bigger picture. Now, this is certainly done in a way that makes it better than most series on TV, and there is the odd episode where they don't follow that kind of path, but it still feels like the show is too afraid to stray from a safe formula that has worked for it in the past. Feel free to blast me for saying all that, just my two cents.


    That being said, I still did enjoy this episode. Nice addition to the story which they can use later on with the missing weapons and I liked Balthezar's character. Cas, as usual, is great and his exasperation with the rest of the angels (both Balthezar and those on Raphael's side) was well played. Kind of makes me wonder if there are less angels on Cas's side than he says.


    On another matter, did anyone else find any similarities between Balthezar and Crowley (who I still believe is actually Death)? Both morally ambigious, both collect souls, both have a similar accent, etc. Or am I just looking too much into that?

    I don't disagree but to me it's two issues. The stuff between Sam and Dean always having an episode ending 'heart to heart' is, likely, a matter of not having any other way to do it. I agree they don't have to have them sit around telling us how they feel when the whole episode already SHOWS us exactly what's going on (at least as much as we need to now at any given time). I can only assume the writers are worried that the finer points are getting lost so they do these talks. As for them alway being at the end it would be kind of awkward have them stop everything to have one in the middle or something. They have attempted to start these talks during the show but then something happens. Perhaps the writers worry that having them sit around too much during the show would bore the casual viewer so they stick it at the end. In any case, as I said elsewhere, this is a long standing issue the show has had for years so likely it's just part of the show, like "Smallville" ending every episode with drippy music and Clark whining about whatever.

    As for the other stuff (every episode starting with a murder, etc...). That's the show's formula. All shows have one and that's how this show works. "CSI" starts with a body and a crime scene. "Law and Order" starts with someone finding a body. That's just the nature of the beast, all shows have a pattern they follow. Some are better at hiding them and others like to experiment with them but that's always risky so a lot don't.

    I still say he's the new Bela, in spirit if not actuality.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [56]Oct 9, 2010
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    CaptainHarkness wrote:

    Best episode of the season so far. Loved having Castiel back. But I do think they need to do something about their opening recaps. Raphael coming back would have been a huge surprise had it not been for the recap. Same thing happened when Lisa came back in season 5.

    Yeah, then again all shows have this issues too. They have to recap for anyone who might have missed an episode so they don't look at Raph (for example) and say "who is that guy?" It's kinda a trade off. Can't tell ya' how many suprise John appearances were ruined by thoes recaps (or seeing JDM's name in the credits).
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [57]Oct 9, 2010
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    idjitlovers wrote:

    Absolutely loved this episode! Have to say it's a great relief as the season premiere did scare me a little. I think credit to everyone involved in the show is due, given how they went the extra mile with the scenes in this one. Usually there's only 3 or 4 settings, and mostly talking heads but I think they had more locations and action sequences this time around (love how Cas and unnamed Raphael minion fell of the building).


    Love Balthazar. I think he's Ben Edlund's second attempt at "Bella." LOL.


    I only have one issue with this episode. How come Dean didn't try harder to stop Castiel when he was torturing the kid? Dean as I know him would do the angel-be-gone spell thingie with his blood on the wall to try to stop an innocent from being hurt --- especially now that he's raising a child of his own. I don't think Dean is that soft. The director could have tried harder to show how Dean was resisting Cas' actions. His attempt seemed half-hearted and convenient.


    I agree with the person who said they shouldn't have killed off Raphael's vessel. He was a good actor. Very intimidating.


    Given the way Cas was acting in that episode he would have likely put Dean to sleep or sent him away before Dean could cut his palm, draw the symbol then place his bloody palm in it. It's a matter of who would be faster and, as we see, angels are VERY quick on the draw.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [58]Oct 9, 2010
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    sunnykimmy wrote:

    caz74 wrote:
    Loved this episode. I must admit I liked it when Cas responded to Dean and said they have a deeper bond. Love that they are both back inthe Impala now. Hope I am not the only one, but I thought it just didn't look right not seeing the amulet onDean. I know it seems strange but throughout the motel scene I just kept thinking wherw's the amulet! As said prev, really loved this episode and cannot wait for more.


    The amulet that he got from Sam and whichwas supposed to glow or get warm when close to God? I think Dean threw that away.

    Yeah the tossed in the trash after "Darkside of the Moon" when he and Cas both gave up on God doing anything for them. They both lost faith after that and neither saw fit to keep it around. Maybe it will pop again though, especially if the God thing becomes an issue again.
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  • Avatar of Scorpwanna

    Scorpwanna

    [59]Oct 10, 2010
    • member since: 05/06/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 21

    The only problem I had with this episode:


    Sam "You sold your soul to an Angel?"


    Dean "Can that even happen?"


    Cas "It's never happened before."


    But, Lucifer is an Angel and he started taking souls before demons did...

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  • Avatar of caz74

    caz74

    [60]Oct 10, 2010
    • member since: 08/30/10
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 17
    Yeah I know what happened to the amulet. It just didn't look right with Dean without it.
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