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Official Discussion Thread: The Third Man (possible spoilers)

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    idjitlovers

    [61]Oct 10, 2010
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    AnimeMadness wrote:
    The only thing is I was a little disappointed to see Dean doesn't have Castiel's handprints on his shoulders anymore...


    Maybe it's because Dean died again? Remember that ep where the hunters found him and Sam and they both went to heaven? Maybe they're in new bodies already. Or maybe Angel "scars" do fade...lol. In all likelihood, make-up crew just forgot.

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    idjitlovers

    [62]Oct 10, 2010
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    libra113 wrote:
    Given the way Cas was acting in that episode he would have likely put Dean to sleep or sent him away before Dean could cut his palm, draw the symbol then place his bloody palm in it. It's a matter of who would be faster and, as we see, angels are VERY quick on the draw.


    I guess. Though he could have tried harder. We've seen him do stupid things before.



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    caz74

    [63]Oct 10, 2010
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    How do we know the handprint has gone. the opening scene of Dean in bed was a dream so he may stil have it.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [64]Oct 10, 2010
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    Scorpwanna wrote:

    The only problem I had with this episode:


    Sam "You sold your soul to an Angel?"


    Dean "Can that even happen?"


    Cas "It's never happened before."


    But, Lucifer is an Angel and he started taking souls before demons did...

    But he didn't start that until AFTER he was cast down into Hell and thus wasn't considered part of the company anymore and therefore wasn't an angel taking souls. Technically the statement is correct.
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    libra113

    [65]Oct 10, 2010
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    idjitlovers wrote:

    AnimeMadness wrote:
    The only thing is I was a little disappointed to see Dean doesn't have Castiel's handprints on his shoulders anymore...


    Maybe it's because Dean died again? Remember that ep where the hunters found him and Sam and they both went to heaven? Maybe they're in new bodies already. Or maybe Angel "scars" do fade...lol. In all likelihood, make-up crew just forgot.

    Never known THIS show to make a mistake like that. More than likely the handprint faded over time, or when Cas returned to Heaven and the whole thing was thought to be over the Earthly link was severed and the handprint was gone. In either case I'm sure there's a reason for it other than a goof (if not they SHOULD come up with one to cover the goof ASAP).
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    libra113

    [66]Oct 10, 2010
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    idjitlovers wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    Given the way Cas was acting in that episode he would have likely put Dean to sleep or sent him away before Dean could cut his palm, draw the symbol then place his bloody palm in it. It's a matter of who would be faster and, as we see, angels are VERY quick on the draw.


    I guess. Though he could have tried harder. We've seen him do stupid things before.



    Well, there's a lot of times on this show (and others)where characters just stand around when they SHOULD do something but that's the nature of the beast. Yeah, in 'real life' he might have made a move but Cas would have stopped him and done what he wanted anyway but in 'tv world' it would just make the scene longer and awkward so they just leave it out and move on.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [67]Oct 10, 2010
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    caz74 wrote:
    How do we know the handprint has gone. the opening scene of Dean in bed was a dream so he may stil have it.
    That's true, I kinda forgot about that (been that kind of weekend), could be that in his dreams he doesn't have the handprint. Have to wait and see what the reality is.
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    AmeliaCarter

    [68]Oct 10, 2010
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    This episode was way better than the previous two. Glad to see that the grandad and the cousins weren't in it and Castiel finally making an appearance. I burst out laughing at Dean's 'call' to Castiel and the way he uses the air quotations Although the whole Sam thing is starting to annoy me. At least when Dean got out of hell we had a few flashbacks, but with Sam we have nothing; not even the amount of time he was there. There is the possibility that time could flow differently in the different parts of hell, like it goes faster in the cage, and Sam did have Lucifer controlling him which would have left him emotionally scarred. I just hope it that Sam opens up to Dean soon (which, if the 'soon' thing is anything to go by, he will) so that this will all get cleared up.

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    Copioli

    [69]Oct 10, 2010
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    I loved episode3. Cass is back, and even when he is colder, I agree (with Libra?) that he only needs some time to adjust. But I think he didn't answer Sam during the year for a reason he wouldn't tell the boys.


    I agree about the openings. They are too revealing and spoil much of the fun.


    I think the hooker part was very good to show how changed is Sam. And I liked the dialogue of the boys in the end. In real life, Dean just would have to ask. So it is believable for me.


    About the handprints: I have 3 theories. 1) they fade away. I am not very sure about that, but it is possible I guess. 2) He still have them, only his dream-self has not them. 3) Cass erased them an the end of last season, while fixing Dean's beaten face. He was a "improved" Castiel, with the power to raise Bobby from death, so I think a cosmetic thing like that would be easy.


    About the amulet: I do hope that it would be shown again. I miss it and I guess it would be important. My theory is that Raphael has it now, but it wouldn't work well with him, for some reason.


    Next week: Bobby again. I hope Grandpa and the Campbell's won't be there, though. This week was great without them.

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    libra113

    [70]Oct 10, 2010
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    Ironic that so many people are opposed to Gramps and the cousins and don't want them around but the gripe is that we don't know anything about them.

    How are they supposed to develop and become, fully realized characters if they can't have the airtime to do that? Can't exactly have character devlopment by osmosis, it takes screen time and patients.
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    Copioli

    [71]Oct 10, 2010
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    Some of us don't want character development. We want less characters. As I said before, I can accept the incorporation of a grandad. Perhaps even one cousin besides grampa. So they become a sort of male Helen and Jo. But 3+? (Grampa talks as if they were more or them). I am glad one of them is dead, even if it is the one I liked more. Now I hope the girl or the other one dies too.
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    WCSU1987

    [72]Oct 10, 2010
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    Will have to see, but still think something came with Sam. We will have to wait and see. With Sam not talking about it could possibly be he does not have a clue. Who ever brought him up could have erased his memories or placed certain memories in? If an angel did raise Sam are there prints on him as well?

    Edited on 10/10/2010 2:28pm
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [73]Oct 10, 2010
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    WCSU1987 wrote:

    Will have to see, but still think something came with Sam. We will have to wait and see. With Sam not talking about it could possibly be he does not have a clue. Who ever brought him up could have erased his memories or placed certain memories in? If an angel did raise Sam are there prints on him as well?

    Juding from the exchange with the hooker in the motel room and that whole scene not in the same place where Dean has his. Maybe the angel lifted him by he backside and there are handprints on his butt cheeks.
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    Sagerian

    [74]Oct 11, 2010
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    Well it took 3 episodes, but I finally get to say "Oh hey, Supernatural is back"

    Very happy now.
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    buffyangel4evr_

    [75]Oct 11, 2010
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    I'll go through the comments later, but FINALLY! An ep to sink your teeth into. Super grody, I loved it. I was saying EWWWW throughout. The humor and comeraderie are back. And CAS! *squeees* Laters.....

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    PutSthCoolHere

    [76]Oct 11, 2010
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    To put this episode into words it's simply; Castiel is back.

    It was epic really, "I was kicking your ass." and the scene when they are sommening Castiel were hilarious.

    Wish to stay in track.

    3 episodes have shown but still nobody has any idea what its going to be in this season. Although the "soon" part revealed something about Sam. We'll wait and see i suppose.
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    Copioli

    [77]Oct 11, 2010
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    Well, there are two storylines. The Alpha monsters and the search for the heaven arsenal. I found both of them very interesting.


    I wonder what will happen if you kill an Alpha monster. All its offsprings die? Another one take the place of Alpha? The offsprings don't die but couldn't reproduce themselves?

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    libra113

    [78]Oct 11, 2010
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    Copioli wrote:

    Well, there are two storylines. The Alpha monsters and the search for the heaven arsenal. I found both of them very interesting.


    I wonder what will happen if you kill an Alpha monster. All its offsprings die? Another one take the place of Alpha? The offsprings don't die but couldn't reproduce themselves?

    All I hope is that it doesn't turn into a senerio where they trace the Alphas back to one creature and that killing it destorys all monsters so that Dean can go back to Lisa and live happily ever after. That would be SO lame.

    The Heaven arsenal sounds intresting as well and should be fun to see what new things come out of that.

    However there is also what's up with Sam and what are the new family members up to.
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    mynameisjohnas

    [79]Oct 11, 2010
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    dman_dustin wrote:


    I disagree with all the "negative" comments on the brother interaction at the end.


    You can argue that as an audience you don't need/want to hear it. but is that actually the best argument against them?


    I mean take this episode for example. Dean knows something is wrong with Sam, and Dean wants to know what the "hell" is going on with Sam. Why would they not show Dean's concerns verbally to Sam? I mean after all Dean had concerns with Sam and Dean wanted answers, how is Dean going to get answers if he just looks the other way (just for the sake of not annoying the TV audience with another boring talk).




    Lol, well argued. Let me rephrase my earlier post. It's not so much that I have a problem with Dean voicing his concerns to Sam or that I think it's unrealistic he would. I don't even have a problem with the dialogue itself. My gripe is with where, how and why the dialogue takes place. As Dpebbleson already noted before me, it's almost always at the end of of the episode or when they're near/in the Impala and when you use a setting or a time period too often for a certain action or event it, to me at least, makes the action/event feel less organic/real when watching it. Likewise, I'll reiterate that I find the whole "our relationship is strained" thing to be boring. I don't deny that given the circumstances Dean should want some answers, but the fact that he's in a position where he the lack of those answers are straining his and Sam's relationship is simply a little old.


    Libra113, you make a good point when noting that it's not always easy for writers to gage how well an audience is going to understand or interpret certain elements of a show and as such sometimes might feel it necesarry to make sure things are clear. It's also true most TV shows do follow a certain formula even if they're good at hiding it. I'm certainly not saying I could do better myself. However, as with any trade whether it be in the sciences or arts, the best way to approach and understand how to do something properly (at at least well in the case of something subjective like the arts) is to simply look at the way others who have gotten it right in the past were able to do so and to me writing for a TV show should be no different. There are lots of series that have been able to make the playing out of their story lines from episode to episode seem more life like even if they followed well masked formulas. Angel, The West Wing, Alias (perhaps one of the most fomulaic shows of the 2000s), Law and Order, Lost, Entourage, Boardwalk Empire, Smallville, True Blood etc- they all (despite some of them being as far away from believable as a soap opera might be) were and still are able, for me at least, to present a certain feeling of reality because the interactions between the characters were/are fluid (both in the settings and time archs of the episode) and the relationships between them were dynamic rather than stoic (I had to chuckle to myself when Gamble was pitching season 6 to everyone saying it was "going to be about the brothers realtionship" because it's not like the past 5 seasons were about that). To an extent SPN does those things, but to an extent it doesn't.


    As such, I'd simply make the argument that if they need to impliment the arguments between the brothers somewhere in the show the writers should at least make it random. Place it in the middle of an episode; place it somewhere else other than near the Impala; have Dean vent to Bobby or Cas about Sam; and maybe, just maybe (although this has nothing to do with the arguments between the brothers) have the balls or breasts to ditch the formula story arch and make the episodes a little more tricky for audiences to guess what's coming on a scene to scene basis. I'm not saying Supernatural hasn't done this in the past, just that they should do it more often because when they do they seem to do it fairly well.


    Like I said, that's just my opinion. Some poeple like that whole monster of the week thing and the formula plots do suit those well so kudos to everyone who does enjoy watching SPN because of it. I have just have different tastes is all.



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    Copioli

    [80]Oct 12, 2010
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    [QUOTE="libra113"]
    Copioli wrote:

    All I hope is that it doesn't turn into a senerio where they trace the Alphas back to one creature and that killing it destorys all monsters so that Dean can go back to Lisa and live happily ever after. That would be SO lame.



    Actually, I would like it. It would be a good ending for the series that hunters were no longer needed.
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