Supernatural Forums

Wednesday 9:00 PM on The CWBetween Seasons

Official Discussion Thread: You Can't Handle the Truth (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of vellarod

    vellarod

    [41]Oct 31, 2010
    • member since: 02/01/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 96
    Shikady wrote:
    Neh, he wouldn't care if he doesn't have a soul.

    Supernatural is going downhill fast. Gamble, I'm really hoping you know what you're doing...because sadly It's getting unwatchable.


    Agree

    Can't understand why dean kept hitting sam. I would accept one punch but not a dozen.....
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [43]Oct 31, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    That and Dean has a lot of repressed rage and negitive emotions both directly and indrectly regarding Sam.

    No matter what he MIGHT say it's been at least hinted that, one some level, he blames Sam for the death of their mother, that he doesn't trust him anymore, doesn't regard him as human, has had major abondonment issues since he chose Ruby over himself and a million other things.

    I'm not so much suprised that Dean kept whaling on Sam but that he was able to stop without someone there to stop him. I'm suprised he didn't keep going until he was just too tired to punch anymore.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jack756

    jack756

    [44]Oct 31, 2010
    • member since: 02/10/08
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,509

    i love this epsiode but the dean hitting sam over and over i can understand but that jus reminds me how much i hate sam and dean realtionship now.there relationship havent been the same since i would say season 3 and now i wish they would go back to what the relationship was b/c i hate there realtionship now it so hard to watch...Cry(dean hitting sam i understand but itwas hard to watch)

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of cherry_brandy

    cherry_brandy

    [45]Oct 31, 2010
    • member since: 08/04/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 711

    libra113 wrote:
    That and Dean has a lot of repressed rage and negitive emotions both directly and indrectly regarding Sam. No matter what he MIGHT say it's been at least hinted that, one some level, he blames Sam for the death of their mother, that he doesn't trust him anymore, doesn't regard him as human, has had major abondonment issues since he chose Ruby over himself and a million other things. I'm not so much suprised that Dean kept whaling on Sam but that he was able to stop without someone there to stop him. I'm suprised he didn't keep going until he was just too tired to punch anymore.


    I disagree. Ever since I saw that clip in the promo I thought it looked controlled not born of anger. The ep confirmed this. He turns away, sets down the knife then calmly turns back and hits Sam with as much force as he can. It clearly is designed to put Sam under, not an attack based on fury. If you've seen the promo I'd say this also confirms and explains why Dean knocks him out.


    If you haven't seen the promo this could be slightly spoilery:



    ***SPOILER***



    Oh and he stops hitting Sam as soon as he looses consciousness - again suggesting the beating had a purpose and not for Dean to yet again use his fists to ease his frustrations. He didn't need anyone to stop him because he didn't lose control.

    Edited on 10/31/2010 5:15pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of valenerramouspe

    valenerramouspe

    [46]Oct 31, 2010
    • member since: 11/26/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 191
    So maybe that's all that's wrong with Sam, but how is it different from having sold your soul, like Dean and Bobby did? I mean, their respective demons were holding their souls until the deadline, right? But they were normal and very able to feel while they didn't have them. So I don't know, maybe there IS something else going on that Sam knows and won't tell, something that even Cas might not be able to realize
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [47]Oct 31, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    valenerramouspe wrote:
    So maybe that's all that's wrong with Sam, but how is it different from having sold your soul, like Dean and Bobby did? I mean, their respective demons were holding their souls until the deadline, right? But they were normal and very able to feel while they didn't have them. So I don't know, maybe there IS something else going on that Sam knows and won't tell, something that even Cas might not be able to realize
    No, tradionally the demon doesn't collect the soul until the contract comes due or the seller dies. Until then it stays wherever it is. I'm also wondering if Sam's situation is deeper than just not having a soul. I wonder if it's a combination of that and everything that Sam has done and had done to him over the years. It just all culminated in making him something that no one can identify or even fully understand (at least not yet).
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [48]Oct 31, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    cherry_brandy wrote:

    libra113 wrote:
    That and Dean has a lot of repressed rage and negitive emotions both directly and indrectly regarding Sam. No matter what he MIGHT say it's been at least hinted that, one some level, he blames Sam for the death of their mother, that he doesn't trust him anymore, doesn't regard him as human, has had major abondonment issues since he chose Ruby over himself and a million other things. I'm not so much suprised that Dean kept whaling on Sam but that he was able to stop without someone there to stop him. I'm suprised he didn't keep going until he was just too tired to punch anymore.


    I disagree. Ever since I saw that clip in the promo I thought it looked controlled not born of anger. The ep confirmed this. He turns away, sets down the knife then calmly turns back and hits Sam with as much force as he can. It clearly is designed to put Sam under, not an attack based on fury. If you've seen the promo I'd say this also confirms and explains why Dean knocks him out.


    If you haven't seen the promo this could be slightly spoilery:



    ***SPOILER***



    Oh and he stops hitting Sam as soon as he looses consciousness - again suggesting the beating had a purpose and not for Dean to yet again use his fists to ease his frustrations. He didn't need anyone to stop him because he didn't lose control.

    I haven't had time to watch the episode more than once and if you mean the ad at the end of the episode I've seen it when it aired, but since when does it take Dean more than one punch to knock someone out? Guess it's Sam being whatever he is now,it's made him more resiliant and able to take a punch.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of cherry_brandy

    cherry_brandy

    [49]Nov 1, 2010
    • member since: 08/04/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 711

    Well yes anyone else would probably be half dead after that beating, I mean talk about brutal. I re-watched it though cos people have been saying that Sam was out long before Dean stopped. BUT if you watch the very last bit, Sam lifts his head just before the last punch. He's almost out but not quite. Dean pauses thinking that's it, then you see him pull back, the camera flits to Sam raising his head, then Dean's fist puts him out.


    Oh and yeah I meant the preview/ad. I knew you'd seen it but I put the spoiler in in case others hadn't. Just to be safe

    Edited on 11/01/2010 4:37am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [50]Nov 1, 2010
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    As for the whole mind/soul debacle, way I see it (in supernatural, and other fantasy/sci-fi) the mind is "backed up" into the soul; all their thoughts and feelings, and when a person dies their mind is saved within the soul. As such, if a person was 2 get amnesia in life, once they die their memories will return to them when they exist as purely a soul. Biologically speaking a soul is not present in the body nor required for the mind to exist (thats where neurons come in ). The soul is typically presented as something different in many religions, mythology etc.
    For example the Vamps in Buffy have a mind but do not have a soul, which leaves them typically having a very low moral compass
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [51]Nov 1, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Well, I guess what I'm getting at is that Sam is something diffrent. Either he's something totally new and unpresidented OR, he's something very old that hasn't exsisted in centeries and been forgotten.

    I also, tend to wonder if it's not JUST the missing soul thing that makes him whatever he is. It's sort of a culmination of everything he's been through since Yellow Eyes showed up in his nursery and fed him that first bit of demon blood and ending with coming back from Lucifer's cage changed.

    I gotta think since the ad blew the whole soul thing right out of the gate that it's just the tip of the iceburg.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of pgsuperfan

    pgsuperfan

    [52]Nov 1, 2010
    • member since: 02/04/06
    • level: 25
    • rank: Coconut Phone
    • posts: 4,361

    I am liking this season reminds me of season 1

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [53]Nov 1, 2010
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I guess what I'm getting at is that Sam is something diffrent. Either he's something totally new and unpresidented OR, he's something very old that hasn't exsisted in centeries and been forgotten.

    I also, tend to wonder if it's not JUST the missing soul thing that makes him whatever he is. It's sort of a culmination of everything he's been through since Yellow Eyes showed up in his nursery and fed him that first bit of demon blood and ending with coming back from Lucifer's cage changed.

    I gotta think since the ad blew the whole soul thing right out of the gate that it's just the tip of the iceburg.


    YEAH, i too was waiting for an epic reveal about Sam. I'd hypothesized like many that it was lack of soul, but was hoping for more. ESPECIALLY because sam does seem to have some emotion; HE SMILED at Dean being turned and being able to lie to him!

    And from next week [Spoilers\] Alpha vamp tells Sam that he'd be his perfect Animal because he doesnt have a soul. [/Spoilers]

    From this it seem that Sam is human, but being souless might have some special effect, such as the Supernatural not effecting him as we saw by Goddess of Truth.

    Prehaps (i hope) Sam himself has become an Alpha? the first of a new line of creatures/monsters. He's certainly has had his fair share of supernatural tinkering by Demons and Lucifer.

    It raises some questions about the relationship between Alpha's and the Gods of Supernatural. Are gods Alphas, or do they have their own Alpha?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [54]Nov 1, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    Your spoiler is showing.

    Since they gave away the soul thing so easily I suspect there's WAY more to it and that's just the smallest part of the issue.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [55]Nov 2, 2010
    • member since: 04/30/05
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 11,074

    That was good finally a new monster type I always wanted more demi-god killing and the thing with Sam is out in the open. Great ending a beat down and cut to credits loved the truth themed episode Bobby's first girlfriend was a what? Always fun messing with Bobby and I know most pagan rituals involved human sacrifice but really do all these gods need to eat humans do we need Gaea to show up to gives us a vegetarian or vegan?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [57]Nov 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    sramv9 wrote:

    what I'm curious about is what all this Sam weirdness will turn out to have to do with Crowley being king of hell, and the weird exchanged look between sam and crowley after sam prevented (dissuaded) Dean from burning Crowley's remains (in "Weekend at Bobby's").

    Might be nothing, might be a misdirect. Could also be they both know full well what Sam is and have a hidden alliance of some sort that would make him expect Sam's protection.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of sramv9

    sramv9

    [58]Nov 2, 2010
    • member since: 01/13/09
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 1,792
    libra113 wrote:
    sramv9 wrote:

    what I'm curious about is what all this Sam weirdness will turn out to have to do with Crowley being king of hell, and the weird exchanged look between sam and crowley after sam prevented (dissuaded) Dean from burning Crowley's remains (in "Weekend at Bobby's").

    Might be nothing, might be a misdirect. Could also be they both know full well what Sam is and have a hidden alliance of some sort that would make him expect Sam's protection.


    It was so pointed that it should turn out to mean something relevantbut if not I'd say it's a loose end
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of OctoberGirl9

    OctoberGirl9

    [59]Nov 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/11/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 328
    Loving this season more and more, havn't found much yet to complain about and this ep was soo fun Please tell me other's figured out that Sam wasn't gonna have a soul before the teaser for next week showed...cause that would make me feel...strange. Hey is that Cas we get this friday?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [60]Nov 2, 2010
    • member since: 10/04/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 24,388
    sramv9 wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    sramv9 wrote:

    what I'm curious about is what all this Sam weirdness will turn out to have to do with Crowley being king of hell, and the weird exchanged look between sam and crowley after sam prevented (dissuaded) Dean from burning Crowley's remains (in "Weekend at Bobby's").

    Might be nothing, might be a misdirect. Could also be they both know full well what Sam is and have a hidden alliance of some sort that would make him expect Sam's protection.


    It was so pointed that it should turn out to mean something relevantbut if not I'd say it's a loose end
    Well loose end or misdirect?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.