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Official Episode Thread: The Girl Next Door (possible spoilers)

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    puppybunny1

    [21]Oct 8, 2011
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    This is a terrible episode in my opinion. So Dean kills the mother so that the kid can be orphaned. What kind of logic is that? If he wanted to get rid of all monsters, then he should have done the same for the kid. It is easier than to grow up alone without a mother. Dean is becoming a monster himself. He is worst off than Amy or Sam.



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    jpi1982

    [22]Oct 8, 2011
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    lol

    poor Dean
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    dpebbleson

    [23]Oct 8, 2011
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    And poor Jensen Ackles who directed the episode and now will have to face such criticism.
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    libra113

    [24]Oct 8, 2011
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    Tyrathius wrote:

    Well, I don't think this episode was quite as good as the other two, but it wasn't bad. Just a little too much of the teen drama for my taste.

    I think they're going overboard with the leviathans eating people. I know it's kinda their thing, but it seems like they can't let a single scene pass without one of them mentioning eating someone. Do it too often and it starts becoming less scary and more narmy. Oh, and they talk on phones a lot. I guess leviathans adapt better to modern technology than angels do.

    Well angels didn't have to adapt to modern technology but either the Leviathans are doing it to better blend in or they just don't have telepathic abilities or perhaps they find it amusing.
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    libra113

    [25]Oct 8, 2011
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    Tyrathius wrote:

    I think part of the problem with this episode is they didn't bother explaining Dean's actions beyond "she might kill again".


    Thing is, it's not just an issue of whether she'll do it again. She's already done it once. Thug or not, the guy was still human. Even if we feel her reasons were justified or that he deserved it, it was still murder. And sure, she says she won't do it again, but what happens if her kid gets sick again? She trades another life for his? What gives her the right to decide who's lives are worth living?


    People kill for what they feel are justified reasons all the time. That doesn't make it any less of a crime.

    Sounds to me like you got it just fine without having to explain it in the show. If you know Dean on any level you know why he felt he had to do what he did and that's all the explination required.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [26]Oct 8, 2011
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    Beecharm3r2 wrote:
    I really liked the episode. The only drawback was basically what others have mentioned. Dean killing Amy.

    I CAN understand why he did it though. He's a pessimist and just saw Sam's other shoe drop, the Leviathan's are wreaking havoc. He's not in a good place. He probably thinks, 'hey, here's a monster that I CAN kill' and takes the easy way out. I thought it was stupid of him though not to shut the door before killing her or I dunno, make sure the kid wasn't there. He knew she had a kid and she's checking into a motel room - Dean, seriously, where do you think the kid would be? Duh.

    With that said, I don't think it was completely in character for him to kill her. Why? Vampire-Lenore. Last season (and I think, Season 1) she showed Dean she can fight her urges and prevent herself from killing. He let her go. Last season, he was talking to her, not trying to kill her - AND he looked at Castiel all shocked and bothered when she the angel smote her. I think Dean should have been more stalker-like with Amy than just knife happy. He should have followed her and watched to see if she killed, then take her out if she did, IMO. But then, that probably wouldn't have wrapped up the episode in a neat little bow.

    I liked the bits with Colin Ford, young Amy, flashbacks. Colin Ford's a good actor and I always like mini-Sam. I'm glad we got to see more about Sam growing up.

    I really want to know more about John though 'cause when Sam stated John has a bad temper, I wasn't shocked. But when he said "you don't want to see him drinking" that made me think John smacked him and Dean around. I want to know if he did hurt them or if he was just yelling a lot and waking up in his own vomit.

    Overall I really liked the episode and I was surprised to find out this is another one that Jensen directed. I thought he did a great job. My one issue with Dean's actions was with the script and not the director.
    Diffrence is Lenore hadn't actually killed anyone and Amy had. They're not the same situation at all. As for John I doubt he smacked them around (or at least there's never been any hint of that) but we do know he was hard on them both and espeically hard on Sam (presumably becasue he knew he was the key to the whole 'what killed Mary' thing) and that would be enough especially to a kid who doesn't understand what's going on.
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    libra113

    [27]Oct 8, 2011
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    Shreela wrote:
    Even though Amy did kill, it was to save her son's life and she chose a drug dealer and a drunk driver. And she planned to stop killing now that her son responded positively to fresh meat. So even though she was indeed a monster that had killed (degenerates), she developed morals and exercised restraint as much as possible. Had she lived, she surely would have tried passing these morals onto her child, most likely encouraging him to become a mortician as well. But now that Dean's killed her, that boy has no one to teach him higher morals. Not to mention he saw his own mother murdered - look what happened to Dexter.

    But I don't see Supernatural being on the air long enough for this boy to age enough to be able to take Dean on to avenge his mother.

    BTW: Seems more like a FU than a homage when the "homaged" character is killed off.
    Yeah but "Supernatural" has the recurring theme that once you kill you get a taste for it and can't stop. As another poster said what would have happened if her kid got sick again? Do you think she wouldn't kill again? What if she got fired or lost her acess to dead people, think she would turn to humans? Also, it doesn't matter who she was killing she was killing and that makes her a danger.

    As for the kid I don't know if we have to wait for him to grow up to return. He isn't human so while being a child he just might still be a physical match for a full grown adult and who is to say that the maturation rate isn't faster or that he might now have other family to join with.
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    dpebbleson

    [29]Oct 8, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    Shreela wrote:
    Even though Amy did kill, it was to save her son's life and she chose a drug dealer and a drunk driver. And she planned to stop killing now that her son responded positively to fresh meat. So even though she was indeed a monster that had killed (degenerates), she developed morals and exercised restraint as much as possible. Had she lived, she surely would have tried passing these morals onto her child, most likely encouraging him to become a mortician as well. But now that Dean's killed her, that boy has no one to teach him higher morals. Not to mention he saw his own mother murdered - look what happened to Dexter.

    But I don't see Supernatural being on the air long enough for this boy to age enough to be able to take Dean on to avenge his mother.

    BTW: Seems more like a FU than a homage when the "homaged" character is killed off.
    Yeah but "Supernatural" has the recurring theme that once you kill you get a taste for it and can't stop. As another poster said what would have happened if her kid got sick again? Do you think she wouldn't kill again? What if she got fired or lost her acess to dead people, think she would turn to humans? Also, it doesn't matter who she was killing she was killing and that makes her a danger.

    As for the kid I don't know if we have to wait for him to grow up to return. He isn't human so while being a child he just might still be a physical match for a full grown adult and who is to say that the maturation rate isn't faster or that he might now have other family to join with.


    Maybe Dean should have killed Sam first, since he started Apocalypse and brought misery to tens of thousands. Not to mention behaving unfairly to Castiel, because of which Purgatory was opened.

    I mean, where exactly does he derive his morality from? What he did by killing a mother in front of her child is shady to say the least, and as far as I've been able to see, many responded to it with disgust. Not that it proves anything, but for me it was either out of character (petty or cruel behaviour), or a signal of some darker side to Dean.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [30]Oct 8, 2011
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    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    I liked this episode - was a bit of a different monster of the week but it kept the main storyline going. I see Dean's point of killing her - remember the Rugaru episode? once they pop, they can't stop.


    I would like to know how the Leviathans knew all of the Winchester's aliases. they couldn't have found all that information at Bobby's, so maybe there's an inside man/woman?

    Maybe Bobby isn't the real Bobby, maybe he's a Leviathan and the real Bobby is dead or captured somewhere.
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    dpebbleson

    [31]Oct 8, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    I liked this episode - was a bit of a different monster of the week but it kept the main storyline going. I see Dean's point of killing her - remember the Rugaru episode? once they pop, they can't stop.


    I would like to know how the Leviathans knew all of the Winchester's aliases. they couldn't have found all that information at Bobby's, so maybe there's an inside man/woman?

    Maybe Bobby isn't the real Bobby, maybe he's a Leviathan and the real Bobby is dead or captured somewhere.


    I actually thought that for a moment. He did mysteriously appear...

    What if Bobby is the boss of Leviathans?
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    CyberMew

    [32]Oct 8, 2011
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    aww that last part got me sad
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [33]Oct 8, 2011
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    jpi1982 wrote:
    I agree that Dean not killing "the kid" is very strange..

    When writing the episode they must have forgotten that the kid actually needs to feed to survive. Dean just cut of he's only "food supply" so for him to come back as an adult, like Dean told him too, would mean him killing humans the next 6-8 years (depending on what age a monster must be for Dean to find it morally justifiable to kill it).
    If "the kid" should decide not to kill anyone, even if his mother was killed in cold blood for being a monster by a human. And why should the kid not kill by the way? His mother stopped killing but Dean killed her anyway, so he's dammed if he does and dammed if he don't... But let say that he does not kill. That means either him sneaking in to the morgue stealing dead bodies (HE'S A KID!). And since that is pretty close to impossible the only option left is for him to starve to death which is a pretty inhuman way to die. So I conclude
    In this episode I learned that: Dean is a sadistic bastard that either wants "kids" to starve them selves to death or to kill humans (which makes no sense) until they become adults so that he can kill them without feeling bad about it.
    Actually, it makes perfect sense if you know how Dean thinks. He will kill anything not human that has or is killing humans but if it's a child he will give it one chance to prove it can break the killing cycle but if it doesn't he will deal with it when it's a adult. He said himself in "Swap Meat" that you gotta be voting age (which in the US is 1. It's not literal but sums up how he thinks nicely.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [34]Oct 8, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    Shreela wrote:
    Even though Amy did kill, it was to save her son's life and she chose a drug dealer and a drunk driver. And she planned to stop killing now that her son responded positively to fresh meat. So even though she was indeed a monster that had killed (degenerates), she developed morals and exercised restraint as much as possible. Had she lived, she surely would have tried passing these morals onto her child, most likely encouraging him to become a mortician as well. But now that Dean's killed her, that boy has no one to teach him higher morals. Not to mention he saw his own mother murdered - look what happened to Dexter.

    But I don't see Supernatural being on the air long enough for this boy to age enough to be able to take Dean on to avenge his mother.

    BTW: Seems more like a FU than a homage when the "homaged" character is killed off.
    Yeah but "Supernatural" has the recurring theme that once you kill you get a taste for it and can't stop. As another poster said what would have happened if her kid got sick again? Do you think she wouldn't kill again? What if she got fired or lost her acess to dead people, think she would turn to humans? Also, it doesn't matter who she was killing she was killing and that makes her a danger.

    As for the kid I don't know if we have to wait for him to grow up to return. He isn't human so while being a child he just might still be a physical match for a full grown adult and who is to say that the maturation rate isn't faster or that he might now have other family to join with.


    Maybe Dean should have killed Sam first, since he started Apocalypse and brought misery to tens of thousands. Not to mention behaving unfairly to Castiel, because of which Purgatory was opened.

    I mean, where exactly does he derive his morality from? What he did by killing a mother in front of her child is shady to say the least, and as far as I've been able to see, many responded to it with disgust. Not that it proves anything, but for me it was either out of character (petty or cruel behaviour), or a signal of some darker side to Dean.
    and he probably would have but his morality has two blindspots, Sam and children. Just like he didn't kill the kid becasue he was a kid he wouldn't kill Sam becasue he's Sam. If you're not aware people in real life have these double standards to their morality all the time, it's never as simple as all or nothing. Double standards are how we get through our days and exsist as a socity, it's how killing can be wrong but execution isn't or killing in war isn't. Withouth double standards everything grinds to a hault and Dean's morality is anything inhuman that's killing humans (no matter who they are) must die unless they're Sam or a kid, then they get a chance.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [35]Oct 8, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    I liked this episode - was a bit of a different monster of the week but it kept the main storyline going. I see Dean's point of killing her - remember the Rugaru episode? once they pop, they can't stop.


    I would like to know how the Leviathans knew all of the Winchester's aliases. they couldn't have found all that information at Bobby's, so maybe there's an inside man/woman?

    Maybe Bobby isn't the real Bobby, maybe he's a Leviathan and the real Bobby is dead or captured somewhere.


    I actually thought that for a moment. He did mysteriously appear...

    What if Bobby is the boss of Leviathans?
    Could be, his arrival is a bit convient and sudden and he sure was gone a lot.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [36]Oct 8, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    Shreela wrote:
    Even though Amy did kill, it was to save her son's life and she chose a drug dealer and a drunk driver. And she planned to stop killing now that her son responded positively to fresh meat. So even though she was indeed a monster that had killed (degenerates), she developed morals and exercised restraint as much as possible. Had she lived, she surely would have tried passing these morals onto her child, most likely encouraging him to become a mortician as well. But now that Dean's killed her, that boy has no one to teach him higher morals. Not to mention he saw his own mother murdered - look what happened to Dexter.

    But I don't see Supernatural being on the air long enough for this boy to age enough to be able to take Dean on to avenge his mother.

    BTW: Seems more like a FU than a homage when the "homaged" character is killed off.
    Yeah but "Supernatural" has the recurring theme that once you kill you get a taste for it and can't stop. As another poster said what would have happened if her kid got sick again? Do you think she wouldn't kill again? What if she got fired or lost her acess to dead people, think she would turn to humans? Also, it doesn't matter who she was killing she was killing and that makes her a danger.

    As for the kid I don't know if we have to wait for him to grow up to return. He isn't human so while being a child he just might still be a physical match for a full grown adult and who is to say that the maturation rate isn't faster or that he might now have other family to join with.


    Maybe Dean should have killed Sam first, since he started Apocalypse and brought misery to tens of thousands. Not to mention behaving unfairly to Castiel, because of which Purgatory was opened.

    I mean, where exactly does he derive his morality from? What he did by killing a mother in front of her child is shady to say the least, and as far as I've been able to see, many responded to it with disgust. Not that it proves anything, but for me it was either out of character (petty or cruel behaviour), or a signal of some darker side to Dean.
    and he probably would have but his morality has two blindspots, Sam and children. Just like he didn't kill the kid becasue he was a kid he wouldn't kill Sam becasue he's Sam. If you're not aware people in real life have these double standards to their morality all the time, it's never as simple as all or nothing. Double standards are how we get through our days and exsist as a socity, it's how killing can be wrong but execution isn't or killing in war isn't. Withouth double standards everything grinds to a hault and Dean's morality is anything inhuman that's killing humans (no matter who they are) must die unless they're Sam or a kid, then they get a chance.


    Yeah, as myself among many others have pointed out, it adds to the complexity of his character.

    On the other hand it made him unnecessarily cruel. If he was so adamant that monsters stay monsters, then he should have killed the kid.
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  • Avatar of dpebbleson

    dpebbleson

    [37]Oct 8, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    I liked this episode - was a bit of a different monster of the week but it kept the main storyline going. I see Dean's point of killing her - remember the Rugaru episode? once they pop, they can't stop.


    I would like to know how the Leviathans knew all of the Winchester's aliases. they couldn't have found all that information at Bobby's, so maybe there's an inside man/woman?

    Maybe Bobby isn't the real Bobby, maybe he's a Leviathan and the real Bobby is dead or captured somewhere.


    I actually thought that for a moment. He did mysteriously appear...

    What if Bobby is the boss of Leviathans?
    Could be, his arrival is a bit convient and sudden and he sure was gone a lot.


    I think if he was a boss, he was there just to toy with them, to see what they're like. Or he's some Meg-like Leviathan.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [38]Oct 8, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    Shreela wrote:
    Even though Amy did kill, it was to save her son's life and she chose a drug dealer and a drunk driver. And she planned to stop killing now that her son responded positively to fresh meat. So even though she was indeed a monster that had killed (degenerates), she developed morals and exercised restraint as much as possible. Had she lived, she surely would have tried passing these morals onto her child, most likely encouraging him to become a mortician as well. But now that Dean's killed her, that boy has no one to teach him higher morals. Not to mention he saw his own mother murdered - look what happened to Dexter.

    But I don't see Supernatural being on the air long enough for this boy to age enough to be able to take Dean on to avenge his mother.

    BTW: Seems more like a FU than a homage when the "homaged" character is killed off.
    Yeah but "Supernatural" has the recurring theme that once you kill you get a taste for it and can't stop. As another poster said what would have happened if her kid got sick again? Do you think she wouldn't kill again? What if she got fired or lost her acess to dead people, think she would turn to humans? Also, it doesn't matter who she was killing she was killing and that makes her a danger.

    As for the kid I don't know if we have to wait for him to grow up to return. He isn't human so while being a child he just might still be a physical match for a full grown adult and who is to say that the maturation rate isn't faster or that he might now have other family to join with.


    Maybe Dean should have killed Sam first, since he started Apocalypse and brought misery to tens of thousands. Not to mention behaving unfairly to Castiel, because of which Purgatory was opened.

    I mean, where exactly does he derive his morality from? What he did by killing a mother in front of her child is shady to say the least, and as far as I've been able to see, many responded to it with disgust. Not that it proves anything, but for me it was either out of character (petty or cruel behaviour), or a signal of some darker side to Dean.
    and he probably would have but his morality has two blindspots, Sam and children. Just like he didn't kill the kid becasue he was a kid he wouldn't kill Sam becasue he's Sam. If you're not aware people in real life have these double standards to their morality all the time, it's never as simple as all or nothing. Double standards are how we get through our days and exsist as a socity, it's how killing can be wrong but execution isn't or killing in war isn't. Withouth double standards everything grinds to a hault and Dean's morality is anything inhuman that's killing humans (no matter who they are) must die unless they're Sam or a kid, then they get a chance.


    Yeah, as myself among many others have pointed out, it adds to the complexity of his character.

    On the other hand it made him unnecessarily cruel. If he was so adamant that monsters stay monsters, then he should have killed the kid.
    Yes logically he should have but that's just not something Dean has in him. Maybe if he didn't look human or look like a child he could have but that's not the situation.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [39]Oct 8, 2011
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    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    dpebbleson wrote:
    libra113 wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    I liked this episode - was a bit of a different monster of the week but it kept the main storyline going. I see Dean's point of killing her - remember the Rugaru episode? once they pop, they can't stop.


    I would like to know how the Leviathans knew all of the Winchester's aliases. they couldn't have found all that information at Bobby's, so maybe there's an inside man/woman?

    Maybe Bobby isn't the real Bobby, maybe he's a Leviathan and the real Bobby is dead or captured somewhere.


    I actually thought that for a moment. He did mysteriously appear...

    What if Bobby is the boss of Leviathans?
    Could be, his arrival is a bit convient and sudden and he sure was gone a lot.


    I think if he was a boss, he was there just to toy with them, to see what they're like. Or he's some Meg-like Leviathan.
    Yes, thinking back could be something even more complex than that. Clearly the Leviathans are looking for Sam and Dean and trailing behind them. That wouldn't be required if they had a spy in their midst that could just call them up and tell them exactly where they are. Maybe he's something else. Maybe he's studying humanity in some way or maybe he just wants to hide out like Bobby's friend the professor did all those years. Of course then that wouldn't solve the issue of someone on the inside giving the others information unless he's playing both sides to buy time for what he wants.
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    Tyrathius

    [40]Oct 8, 2011
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    libra113 wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    I liked this episode - was a bit of a different monster of the week but it kept the main storyline going. I see Dean's point of killing her - remember the Rugaru episode? once they pop, they can't stop.


    I would like to know how the Leviathans knew all of the Winchester's aliases. they couldn't have found all that information at Bobby's, so maybe there's an inside man/woman?


    Maybe Bobby isn't the real Bobby, maybe he's a Leviathan and the real Bobby is dead or captured somewhere.


    Thing with that is, the leviathans want Sam and Dean dead. If he was a leviathan, why would he have helped them escape? They obviously weren't going to be able to do it themselves in their current condition.


    And assuming he had some ulterior motive for helping them, Bobby knew where the Winchesters were staying. Why track them through a credit card when he could just tell them?

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