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Season 8+ News Speculation etc. Thread (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of KS_Winchester

    KS_Winchester

    [61]Jun 28, 2012
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    I was talking about Viewership ratings, not critical ratings. Nobody is apparently interested to watch the great return of Castiel.

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    Tyrathius

    [62]Jun 29, 2012
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    I still can't find any listed drops in viewership for that episode on TV.com, nielsen, or Super-Wiki. Perhaps you could link your source.


    Getting back to your previous post, there actually is something they still need to do with him: Redemption. Part of the reason his death got so much flak was not just that he was killed off, but the way he was killed off: Randomly turning evil due to a deus ex machina, killing a bunch of people and then releasing the leviathans. This did not sit well with a lot of the fanbase. Season 6 also thoroughly wrecked his friendship with Dean, something that still needs to be addressed even now that the leviathans have been dealt with. Locking him in purgatory with Dean gives him a chance to accomplish this, not to mention gives the brothers some frankly needed time away from each other, so as long as they don't rush it out of the way in the premiere like last time I think it'll be fine.

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    libra113

    [63]Jun 30, 2012
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    Yes, Cas needs a chance to earn his way back to the side of right. Hopefully he can do that this coming season.
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    No1Slayerette

    [64]Jul 9, 2012
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    Apparently Sam's getting a love interest: http://tvline.com/2012/07/09/supernatural-casts-liane-balaban-sams-new-love-interest/

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    lachlan_j_g

    [65]Jul 10, 2012
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    No1Slayerette wrote:


    Apparently Sam's getting a love interest: http://tvline.com/2012/07/09/supernatural-casts-liane-balaban-sams-new-love-interest/



    from her description of the character, it sounds a little bit like Dean - she is a tragedy damaged soul, who is brave and sarcastic

    Edited on 07/09/2012 11:48pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [66]Jul 10, 2012
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    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    No1Slayerette wrote:


    Apparently Sam's getting a love interest: http://tvline.com/2012/07/09/supernatural-casts-liane-balaban-sams-new-love-interest/



    from her description of the character, it sounds a little bit like Dean - she is a tragedy damaged soul, who is brave and sarcastic


    Okay that sounds really weird and wrong. I can see the fan reaction now about how Sam's hooking up with female Dean.

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    lachlan_j_g

    [67]Jul 10, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:


    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    No1Slayerette wrote:


    Apparently Sam's getting a love interest: http://tvline.com/2012/07/09/supernatural-casts-liane-balaban-sams-new-love-interest/



    from her description of the character, it sounds a little bit like Dean - she is a tragedy damaged soul, who is brave and sarcastic


    Okay that sounds really weird and wrong. I can see the fan reaction now about how Sam's hooking up with female Dean.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wz2KWCixtE

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [68]Jul 10, 2012
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    Yes, I remember that episode well.

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    No1Slayerette

    [69]Jul 11, 2012
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    Haha! I love it when Supernatural goes meta.

    lachlan_j_g wrote:
    from her description of the character, it sounds a little bit like Dean - she is a tragedy damaged soul, who is brave and sarcastic
    I didn't think of that...
    libra113 wrote:
    Okay that sounds really weird and wrong. I can see the fan reaction now about how Sam's hooking up with female Dean.
    Has fan reaction ever been positive when the either of the guys gets a love interest? I've only watched the show full-on since season five so I don't know if that's actually the case, but on the outside looking in, and looking at that hilarious clip, it just seems to me fans have never really reacted positively to a love interest. Is this the case?

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    smegmag

    [70]Jul 11, 2012
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    No, in general fan reaction hasn't been that good but show hasn't handled it that well either. Moreover, now as the characters have evolved they've been so marginalized from normal society I can't see them forming long (or even medium) term relationships with normal women--a hunter--one's who's been in the life for awhile--not a MarySue but no more freaking damsels--and please Sam no monsters.


    Cassie - she had naked Dean and then had the audacity to turn down his offer of a drive by relationship. (Same offer Lisa snatched up after a year of live in --compare self esteem) There were shouts of mean to Dean and calls for her head on a pike. I thought she just didnt want the kind of relationship Dean could offer and had self esteem.


    Jo- fans thought she was an annoying bratty child--btw she was. They brought her back in S5 rehabilitated her and killed her--show did that not fans.


    Sarah- fans liked her, Sam liked her, but he left and didn't go back because of all the same reasons he shouldn't be starting up a relationship with this new woman. He was bad news, he knew it then, wonder what's going to change his mind about that?


    Madison- fans liked her I think, but then she was a tragic monster figure and Sam had to put her down--Old Yaller style


    Hollywood Babylon actress--hookup with a name and I've forgotten it.


    Bela- there was bad fan reaction to her, but I dont see how there would ever have been a relationship with her 1) she shot Sam--grazes count 2) she stole the Colt which was Dean's best line of defense against going to hell. After that you couldnt have convinced Dean to have even angry sex with her.


    Ruby - I believe (though all would deny it now) there actually was some positive reaction early on to Sam and his pet demon. I was NEVER among them. I mean really--necrophilia, piquerism, haemotolanglia--they really had Sam circling the toilet bowl on that one. Great relationship if you like being lied to, manipulated and played for the biggest fool of ALL TIME.


    Anna - it seemed kind of "fox holey" to me (and thanks for the metaphor "Of Grave Imporance") Plus she seemed to lose all interest in things human when she got her grace back. And whatever lingering interest Dean might have had quickly dissipated when she tried to kill 1) Sam and 2) Mary and John. I dont recall much initial fan reaction to the relationship other than "Boom, chick a boom, boom" in response to more naked Dean.


    Jamie - I think the fans liked her, she was smart, brave and cool with the concept of Dean just passing through--unfortunately Dean was just passing through.


    Cara - Sam's mutual hookup who he didn't even bid farewell, again because he knows his lifestyle is bad news and this time I don't think he invested any feelings at all.


    Lisa/Ben--I thought it was wrong on so many levels, however there was a big split among the fandom--some loved her others hated her. Some thought she was cool and super understanding, I thought she was an AWFUL mother and as for being understanding I thought she acted like she was on PROZAC (A friend of mine once explained antidepressants dont really remove depression, you still see all the awful conditions around you, you just lose the ability to react to them appropriately) I just hope they are gone.


    Jessica - I almost forgot her, everybody loved her but she was gone practically from the opening credits--which I thought was cool.


    Was there anyone else--I'm not counting random flirtations, Sam's first monster-kiss or Dean's Amazon baby-momma.



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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [71]Jul 11, 2012
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    Well, I think the big mistake the show has made in this regard is setting out to make a character a 'love interest' first and either a fully realized character on her own later (or not at all).

    The one episode, woman of the week characters who have worked the best are the ones who bring something to the table and aren't just there to fawn and look nice.

    What they need to do is make sure the character is a fully realized and independent entity then see what happens naturally with the actors chemistry, the way the scripts start to fall and all that. It also might get the character past the initial wall of hate.
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    No1Slayerette

    [72]Jul 11, 2012
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    Thanks for the list smegmag! I sort of only skimmed over it though... I didn't want to get spoiled because I plan to go back and watch the show from the beginning soon.


    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I think the big mistake the show has made in this regard is setting out to make a character a 'love interest' first and either a fully realized character on her own later (or not at all). The one episode, woman of the week characters who have worked the best are the ones who bring something to the table and aren't just there to fawn and look nice. What they need to do is make sure the character is a fully realized and independent entity then see what happens naturally with the actors chemistry, the way the scripts start to fall and all that. It also might get the character past the initial wall of hate.
    You make a good point, but from what I've seen/ heard, on many television shows the writers just decide that a character needs a love interest, and that's how the character is born. I think it's very rare that writers create a character and then later on decide that, yes, the chemistry is good, and yes, the fan reaction is positive so we'll keep them around. They just don't have the time or money to introduce characters like that and wait for something to occur naturally. It is really very unfortunate that they don't, because television characters might be a lot more three-dimensional then they currently are if things were done that way, but that's just how things are done.

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    tvtome_xena321

    [73]Jul 11, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I think the big mistake the show has made in this regard is setting out to make a character a 'love interest' first and either a fully realized character on her own later (or not at all).

    The one episode, woman of the week characters who have worked the best are the ones who bring something to the table and aren't just there to fawn and look nice.

    What they need to do is make sure the character is a fully realized and independent entity then see what happens naturally with the actors chemistry, the way the scripts start to fall and all that. It also might get the character past the initial wall of hate.


    I prefer they simply introduce and develop the character first, love interests should be thought after we see how the chemistry goes. But the fans are not really to blame in some cases even if they do complain, they have a habit of killing off females before they can get to shine. But to be honest 8 seasons in, I don't know, it seems really late for us fans to invest in new female characters, since all of them are dead, unless your Meg lol
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    No1Slayerette

    [74]Jul 12, 2012
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    tvtome_xena321 wrote:
    But to be honest 8 seasons in, I don't know, it seems really late for us fans to invest in new female characters, since all of them are dead, unless your Meg lol
    And I wish she was dead...

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    lachlan_j_g

    [75]Jul 12, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I think the big mistake the show has made in this regard is setting out to make a character a 'love interest' first and either a fully realized character on her own later (or not at all). The one episode, woman of the week characters who have worked the best are the ones who bring something to the table and aren't just there to fawn and look nice. What they need to do is make sure the character is a fully realized and independent entity then see what happens naturally with the actors chemistry, the way the scripts start to fall and all that. It also might get the character past the initial wall of hate.


    although not a love interest, I think Ellen has been the best recurring female character for exactly those reasons.

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    smegmag

    [76]Jul 12, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I think the big mistake the show has made in this regard is setting out to make a character a 'love interest' first and either a fully realized character on her own later (or not at all).

    The one episode, woman of the week characters who have worked the best are the ones who bring something to the table and aren't just there to fawn and look nice.

    What they need to do is make sure the character is a fully realized and independent entity then see what happens naturally with the actors chemistry, the way the scripts start to fall and all that. It also might get the character past the initial wall of hate.


    I agree, but I don't think that's how they operate. In fact, the only character I believe they actually followed your formula with was Jody Mills--and it was a success. She was introduced as a full-albeit minor character,returned as a player-not eye candy in WAB and before that ep was over I was totally thinking "Bobby forget that Marcy chick, cool-a$$ Sherrif Mills is standing right in front of you" Of course, this was a relationship with Bobby a secondary character, but it worked. I don't think---hell I know this isn't how they are approaching the introduction to this character (i.e. the press release)and its too bad. I don't think I have a wall of hate, just an attitude of "ok, make it work--surprise me" I think it may be because this show requires such a large measure of suspension of disbelief to work at all given its major theme, I like to see other aspects--for example relationship aspects ring true. They totally managed it in the development of the Bobby/Boys father/son relationship and the Cas/Dean (and lesser extent Sam) mentor/friend relationship. I don't think they've shown themselves as good in the love relationships. If anything I have a bias for smart women, and most smart women when confronted with them would regretfully show their tantalizing a$$es to the door. They need to develop a plot line that would overcome this and not the feablea$$ "he saved me, I'm his" they need to "put their back into it" and some how I don't think they will.
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  • Avatar of smegmag

    smegmag

    [77]Jul 12, 2012
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    [QUOTE="No1Slayerette"]

    Thanks for the list smegmag! I sort of only skimmed over it though... I didn't want to get spoiled because I plan to go back and watch the show from the beginning soon.


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    smegmag

    [78]Jul 12, 2012
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    Sorry I screwed that up, I meant to say SORRY I never meant to spoil show for you.
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    No1Slayerette

    [79]Jul 12, 2012
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    Nah, don't worry about it... this is a speculation/ spoiler thread after all Smile. I have been watching the show on and off since it started, but only properly since season five, so I'm hoping when I go back that while I would have seen some of it, that some other parts might still be new to me.

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    libra113

    [80]Jul 12, 2012
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    No1Slayerette wrote:


    Thanks for the list smegmag! I sort of only skimmed over it though... I didn't want to get spoiled because I plan to go back and watch the show from the beginning soon.


    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I think the big mistake the show has made in this regard is setting out to make a character a 'love interest' first and either a fully realized character on her own later (or not at all). The one episode, woman of the week characters who have worked the best are the ones who bring something to the table and aren't just there to fawn and look nice. What they need to do is make sure the character is a fully realized and independent entity then see what happens naturally with the actors chemistry, the way the scripts start to fall and all that. It also might get the character past the initial wall of hate.
    You make a good point, but from what I've seen/ heard, on many television shows the writers just decide that a character needs a love interest, and that's how the character is born. I think it's very rare that writers create a character and then later on decide that, yes, the chemistry is good, and yes, the fan reaction is positive so we'll keep them around. They just don't have the time or money to introduce characters like that and wait for something to occur naturally. It is really very unfortunate that they don't, because television characters might be a lot more three-dimensional then they currently are if things were done that way, but that's just how things are done.


    Well yeah but it happens and I didn't mean they had to do it that way. I meant the design phase of the character. Make a strong,independentcharacter who adds to the show first then add on the loveinterestbit second. They don't need such characters to be one note.


    The big thing in the past was all they had to offer was the loveintereststuff and had no place in the rest of the show and that's a major issue with the way this show is set up and written. If the character just fades into the background when Sam and Dean aren't around and can't do anything useful to the main story then it grinds everything to ahalt.

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