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Season 8+ News Speculation etc. Thread (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [81]Jul 12, 2012
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    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    libra113 wrote:
    Well, I think the big mistake the show has made in this regard is setting out to make a character a 'love interest' first and either a fully realized character on her own later (or not at all). The one episode, woman of the week characters who have worked the best are the ones who bring something to the table and aren't just there to fawn and look nice. What they need to do is make sure the character is a fully realized and independent entity then see what happens naturally with the actors chemistry, the way the scripts start to fall and all that. It also might get the character past the initial wall of hate.


    although not a love interest, I think Ellen has been the best recurring female character for exactly those reasons.


    Yeah but then I thing they bungled her by making her a stranger to Sam and Dean. They should have given them a personal history like with Bobby so there would be the shared past. It also bugged me because the stuff with her husband could have been handled exactly the same that way so there was no reason to make some stranger.

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    WickedNix

    [82]Jul 12, 2012
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    I double over laughing just at the thought of a genuine, longtermlove interest for Dean or Sam.


    A smart woman would suss out the situation and immediately say, "Feet, don't fail me now."


    Tossing in a possible love interest now and then does serve the purpose of reinforcing the futility of the boys ever having anything in life that hints of normal.

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    libra113

    [83]Jul 13, 2012
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    WickedNix wrote:


    I double over laughing just at the thought of a genuine, longtermlove interest for Dean or Sam.


    A smart woman would suss out the situation and immediately say, "Feet, don't fail me now."


    Tossing in a possible love interest now and then does serve the purpose of reinforcing the futility of the boys ever having anything in life that hints of normal.


    Agreed. The whole point is that they can never have a normal life or family and yet struggle and fight to allow others to have those things.

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    WickedNix

    [84]Jul 13, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:


    WickedNix wrote:


    I double over laughing just at the thought of a genuine, longtermlove interest for Dean or Sam.


    A smart woman would suss out the situation and immediately say, "Feet, don't fail me now."


    Tossing in a possible love interest now and then does serve the purpose of reinforcing the futility of the boys ever having anything in life that hints of normal.


    Agreed. The whole point is that they can never have a normal life or family and yet struggle and fight to allow others to have those things.



    Exactly.


    They are noble, elite fighters, but they still retain their flawed humanity characteristics which makes them larger than life heroes.

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    smegmag

    [85]Jul 13, 2012
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    Exactly, can you imagine googling "Sam Winchester", DAMN 3 million hits!! First hit a U-Tube video of LeviaSam and LeviaDean massacring innocents by the dozen, next a front page report of their most recent death. The smartest woman already has her bag packed and is phoning in that anonymous tip on her way to the airport. Her less smart sister confronts him, demanding an explaination. Using the full "puppy dog eye" effect, Sam explains about shape shifters, leviathans, purgatory, the apocalypse, and Lucifer. She slowly backs away, before she turns to run, hoping her "feet won't fail her now". The duller(Fredo-er Lisa) sister offers him a beer and her heaving busom to rest his weary head on.
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    libra113

    [86]Jul 13, 2012
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    The most realistic reaction was Cassie from season one. Assume Dean is crazy, maybe dangerous and break it off.
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    smegmag

    [87]Jul 15, 2012
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    Yeah, and back then he was just self-reporting crazy to her, now there's TONS of easily accessible corroborating evidence. And, for Cassie even the second time when he came back and she knew he wasn't crazy, his lifestyle was still crazy--dangerous too--best to break it off.

    Edited on 07/15/2012 8:22am
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    libra113

    [88]Jul 15, 2012
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    smegmag wrote:


    Yeah, and back then he was just self-reporting crazy to her, now there's TONS of easily accessible corroborating evidence. And, for Cassie even the second time when he came back and she knew he wasn't crazy, his lifestyle was still crazy--dangerous too--best to break it off.


    Yeah and I wassurprisedat how much hate she got for that. It's real and level headed and somehow she's wrong. Meanwhile you got Lisa who was willing to put herself, and worse, her son at risk for some guy she really didn't know. It was just really weird and made her look needy and unstable.

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    smegmag

    [89]Jul 16, 2012
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    Exactly, "needy and unstable" and yet a sizeable portion of the fans thought she was "the perfect woman" for Dean.

    Also, check out http://www.tv.com/news/comic-con-2012-flashbacks-will-be-huge-in-supernaturals-next-season-29115/ and other articles coming out of Comic-Con. Seems to be a pretty mixed bag. ****SPOILER ALERT**** just thought I'd give a heads up even though this is a spoiler/spec thread.

    Positive note, although looks like season might start out with Dean out of purgatory the season will actually reveal what happened to him there via a series of flashbacks throughout the season (unlike his hell experience).

    More problematic, Dean goes to purgatory and Sam gets out of hunting??????? Yes, Sam Winchester apparently accepts Dean being trapped in purgatory and decides to "get on with his life" --hence the new love interest I guess? My opinion, my opinion only--stinks to high heaven. Recreating the worst of S6, wow let's just call it a bold creative choice and see how it plays out.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [90]Jul 16, 2012
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    smegmag wrote:
    Exactly, "needy and unstable" and yet a sizeable portion of the fans thought she was "the perfect woman" for Dean. Also, check out http://www.tv.com/news/comic-con-2012-flashbacks-will-be-huge-in-supernaturals-next-season-29115/ and other articles coming out of Comic-Con. Seems to be a pretty mixed bag. ****SPOILER ALERT**** just thought I'd give a heads up even though this is a spoiler/spec thread. Positive note, although looks like season might start out with Dean out of purgatory the season will actually reveal what happened to him there via a series of flashbacks throughout the season (unlike his hell experience). More problematic, Dean goes to purgatory and Sam gets out of hunting??????? Yes, Sam Winchester apparently accepts Dean being trapped in purgatory and decides to "get on with his life" --hence the new love interest I guess? My opinion, my opinion only--stinks to high heaven. Recreating the worst of S6, wow let's just call it a bold creative choice and see how it plays out.
    Well a lot of the pro Lisa crowd was still wrapped up in the fantasy that Ben was Dean's kid and just would not let that one go (not that the writers helped much in that regard).


    It's all in how they present it. Did Sam really just give up or try everything he knew to then had no other options? Just how much time did it take to work up to the lifestyle change? Anyway, I don't think Sam knows Dean's in Purgatory does he or does he just know he's missing?

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    lachlan_j_g

    [91]Jul 16, 2012
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    I know it's unrelated but I just watched an episode of Without A Trace which featured both actors who portrayed Crowley and Lucifer. was an interesting sight, seeing them together

    Edited on 07/16/2012 8:01am
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    smegmag

    [92]Jul 16, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:

    smegmag wrote:
    Exactly, "needy and unstable" and yet a sizeable portion of the fans thought she was "the perfect woman" for Dean. Also, check out http://www.tv.com/news/comic-con-2012-flashbacks-will-be-huge-in-supernaturals-next-season-29115/ and other articles coming out of Comic-Con. Seems to be a pretty mixed bag. ****SPOILER ALERT**** just thought I'd give a heads up even though this is a spoiler/spec thread. Positive note, although looks like season might start out with Dean out of purgatory the season will actually reveal what happened to him there via a series of flashbacks throughout the season (unlike his hell experience). More problematic, Dean goes to purgatory and Sam gets out of hunting??????? Yes, Sam Winchester apparently accepts Dean being trapped in purgatory and decides to "get on with his life" --hence the new love interest I guess? My opinion, my opinion only--stinks to high heaven. Recreating the worst of S6, wow let's just call it a bold creative choice and see how it plays out.
    Well a lot of the pro Lisa crowd was still wrapped up in the fantasy that Ben was Dean's kid and just would not let that one go (not that the writers helped much in that regard).


    It's all in how they present it. Did Sam really just give up or try everything he knew to then had no other options? Just how much time did it take to work up to the lifestyle change? Anyway, I don't think Sam knows Dean's in Purgatory does he or does he just know he's missing?



    I think super smart Sam could figure out at least that Dean is in purgatory, average smart me figured that out before they came back from commercial showing Dean and Cas in purgatory. Whether or not he gives up based on his inability to access purgatory is another matter--the article just makes it seem kind of blase, blase. I wonder if they'll have some brother angst about that after a year Dean and maybe Cas manage to claw themselves out of purgatory and find Sam living that apple pie life--or in his case maybe more chardonnay and brie, or wheatgrass and power smoothies.

    Good news is we'll see purgatory (not like I originally hoped with first few eps dedicated to the story) but still. Better news, they don't say it but the hints seem like bad ghosts go there too. So Dean will hopefully have Bobby (many of us already assumed this much) Bad news is all the other bad ghosts Dean has vanquished will be there too, in addition to the monsters he's killed. So far at least for me, Dean will have the much better storyline. So for me that would make them 50% improved over the beginning of season 6 when I didn't think either of them had a good storyline.
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    smegmag

    [93]Jul 16, 2012
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    lachlan_j_g wrote:

    I know it's unrelated but I just watched an episode of Without A Trace which featured both actors who portrayed Crowley and Lucifer. was an interesting sight, seeing them together



    I didn't see that episode of Without a Trace, but I've seen them both in other parts and they are excellent actors. I've seen the actress who played Bela in other parts and she's very good too, as is Katie Cassidy and of course Jim Beaver.
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [94]Jul 16, 2012
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    smegmag wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    smegmag wrote:
    Exactly, "needy and unstable" and yet a sizeable portion of the fans thought she was "the perfect woman" for Dean. Also, check out http://www.tv.com/news/comic-con-2012-flashbacks-will-be-huge-in-supernaturals-next-season-29115/ and other articles coming out of Comic-Con. Seems to be a pretty mixed bag. ****SPOILER ALERT**** just thought I'd give a heads up even though this is a spoiler/spec thread. Positive note, although looks like season might start out with Dean out of purgatory the season will actually reveal what happened to him there via a series of flashbacks throughout the season (unlike his hell experience). More problematic, Dean goes to purgatory and Sam gets out of hunting??????? Yes, Sam Winchester apparently accepts Dean being trapped in purgatory and decides to "get on with his life" --hence the new love interest I guess? My opinion, my opinion only--stinks to high heaven. Recreating the worst of S6, wow let's just call it a bold creative choice and see how it plays out.
    Well a lot of the pro Lisa crowd was still wrapped up in the fantasy that Ben was Dean's kid and just would not let that one go (not that the writers helped much in that regard).


    It's all in how they present it. Did Sam really just give up or try everything he knew to then had no other options? Just how much time did it take to work up to the lifestyle change? Anyway, I don't think Sam knows Dean's in Purgatory does he or does he just know he's missing?


    I think super smart Sam could figure out at least that Dean is in purgatory, average smart me figured that out before they came back from commercial showing Dean and Cas in purgatory. Whether or not he gives up based on his inability to access purgatory is another matter--the article just makes it seem kind of blase, blase. I wonder if they'll have some brother angst about that after a year Dean and maybe Cas manage to claw themselves out of purgatory and find Sam living that apple pie life--or in his case maybe more chardonnay and brie, or wheatgrass and power smoothies. Good news is we'll see purgatory (not like I originally hoped with first few eps dedicated to the story) but still. Better news, they don't say it but the hints seem like bad ghosts go there too. So Dean will hopefully have Bobby (many of us already assumed this much) Bad news is all the other bad ghosts Dean has vanquished will be there too, in addition to the monsters he's killed. So far at least for me, Dean will have the much better storyline. So for me that would make them 50% improved over the beginning of season 6 when I didn't think either of them had a good storyline.
    Yeah but you have thebenefitof looking at it as a story of aTVshow and in that context there'sreallynowhere else Dean would have gone. However, as a character in the story thepossibilitiesare a bit more open. Purgatory is certainly number one but not the only one and given how hard it is to even find it would leave Sam little to no options.


    Anyway Dean lived with Ben and Lisa for a year thinking Sam was suffering in Lucifer's cage so....


    For some reason I flashed on that episode of the "Ghostbusters" cartoon where they had to go inside the containment unit to find a particular ghost.

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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [95]Jul 16, 2012
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    smegmag wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    I know it's unrelated but I just watched an episode of Without A Trace which featured both actors who portrayed Crowley and Lucifer. was an interesting sight, seeing them together


    I didn't see that episode of Without a Trace, but I've seen them both in other parts and they are excellent actors. I've seen the actress who played Bela in other parts and she's very good too, as is Katie Cassidy and of course Jim Beaver.
    Bela is on "Walking Dead" right now with short hair and a Georgian accent. She's VERY good.

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    smegmag

    [96]Jul 16, 2012
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    [QUOTE="libra113"]


    [QUOTE="smegmag"][QUOTE="libra113"]


    Anyway Dean lived with Ben and Lisa for a year thinking Sam was suffering in Lucifer's cage so....


    Yeah, Dean did live with Lisa/Ben for a year knowing Sam was in Lucifer's cage HOWEVER, he only supposedly did this because of some ridiculous promise Sam extracted that he get out of hunting and even then Dean (lamely and gamely)continued trying to get him back. I believe we've had this discussion in the past, and we mostly agreed that this behavior was highly uncharacteristic of the Dean that had been portrayed up to that point. I personally believed the Dean/Lisa-Ben storyline was poorly conceived, poorly executed, awkward and almost amounted to character assassination of Dean.



    Maybe they can write/portray it better than they did with Dean, but a similar character assassination of Sam would be equally sad especially after all he's done to redeem his character since S4. Perhaps even more so since Sam would have Dean's failure to make it work and the danger he inevitably put Lisa/Ben in (and they are still in)as an object lesson--oh, but yeah, Sam did always think he could do anything better than Dean.

    Edited on 07/16/2012 4:04pm
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  • Avatar of libra113

    libra113

    [97]Jul 16, 2012
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    [QUOTE="smegmag"]


    [QUOTE="libra113"]


    [QUOTE="smegmag"]

    libra113 wrote:


    Anyway Dean lived with Ben and Lisa for a year thinking Sam was suffering in Lucifer's cage so....


    Yeah, Dean did live with Lisa/Ben for a year knowing Sam was in Lucifer's cage HOWEVER, he only supposedly did this because of some ridiculous promise Sam extracted that he get out of hunting and even then Dean (lamely and gamely)continued trying to get him back. I believe we've had this discussion in the past, and we mostly agreed that this behavior was highly uncharacteristic of the Dean that had been portrayed up to that point. I personally believed the Dean/Lisa-Ben storyline was poorly conceived, poorly executed, awkward and almost amounted to character assassination of Dean.



    Maybe they can write/portray it better than they did with Dean, but a similar character assassination of Sam would be equally sad especially after all he's done to redeem his character since S4. Perhaps even more so since Sam would have Dean's failure to make it work and the danger he inevitably put Lisa/Ben in (and they are still in)as an object lesson--oh, but yeah, Sam did always think he could do anything better than Dean.


    Can't disagree with that at all.

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    smegmag

    [98]Jul 17, 2012
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    libra113 wrote:

    smegmag wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    I know it's unrelated but I just watched an episode of Without A Trace which featured both actors who portrayed Crowley and Lucifer. was an interesting sight, seeing them together


    I didn't see that episode of Without a Trace, but I've seen them both in other parts and they are excellent actors. I've seen the actress who played Bela in other parts and she's very good too, as is Katie Cassidy and of course Jim Beaver.
    Bela is on "Walking Dead" right now with short hair and a Georgian accent. She's VERY good.



    BTW, "actress who played Bela" = Lauren Cohen. (thought she deserved an actual name--had to check the S3 dvd box)
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    libra113

    [99]Jul 17, 2012
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    smegmag wrote:
    libra113 wrote:


    smegmag wrote:
    lachlan_j_g wrote:


    I know it's unrelated but I just watched an episode of Without A Trace which featured both actors who portrayed Crowley and Lucifer. was an interesting sight, seeing them together


    I didn't see that episode of Without a Trace, but I've seen them both in other parts and they are excellent actors. I've seen the actress who played Bela in other parts and she's very good too, as is Katie Cassidy and of course Jim Beaver.
    Bela is on "Walking Dead" right now with short hair and a Georgian accent. She's VERY good.


    BTW, "actress who played Bela" = Lauren Cohen. (thought she deserved an actual name--had to check the S3 dvd box)
    I'm not where I could check so I just went with what I knew

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    Tyrathius

    [100]Jul 17, 2012
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    Holy blonde cheerleader Batman! Activity!


    I think they're wasting potential getting Dean out of purgatory so quickly, but I guess they just don't have the budget for a full arc set there. I also find it hard to believe Sam apparently just up and retired after the season 7 -Even if Dean was out of his reach, wouldn't he have had to deal with the aftermath of the leviathan situation? What about Crowley? Did he just grab Kevin, give an evil speech and then leave and do nothing for a year? How's the alpha vamp supposed to fit into all this?


    Least they're admitting that maybe the leviathans didn't work so well after all (I liked the line about them being B-movie villains). First step to improvement is acknowledging you screwed up. There's still definitely potential for a good story here. I will approach this season with something vaguely resembling cautious optimism.

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