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Are we being lied to?

  • Avatar of MicViv

    MicViv

    [21]Oct 10, 2007
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    Yep, I agree with you Temp Scars and I am disappointed as well.

    The episode clearly shows him enjoying night six and the morning after (do they label it seven?) it shows him finding the millipede and checking his water. He also mentions on tv that day going 48 hours without water.

    The thing is, why make it up? The whole premise is to see if he can or can't survive... it's not a competition.

    However, I do think he walked back to camp. It doesn't say that he didn't... it says that he doesn't want the crew to come and find him passed out and he doesn't want to go another day...

    What a bummer... I expected more of this show...

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  • Avatar of Temporaryscars

    Temporaryscars

    [22]Oct 10, 2007
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    I don't know the details behind it, but it makes you wonder. It could all just be a mistake in editing or even blogging, or, they could be lying to us. Still, I love the show and it won't stop me from watching it, I just wish I could believe it was 100% real. Maybe those are lofty goals.
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  • Avatar of jzack1017

    jzack1017

    [23]Oct 14, 2007
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    I don't mean to justify the show for misrepresenting the first released episode of the new season; however, I do see a bit of the rationale that was possibly behind the decision to do such a deed.

    For the most part, yes, the show seems to misrepresent the fifth day completely – the day where Les Stroud should be shown setting up his water stills, eating scorpions and the ostrich egg, etc. Instead, the show conveyed only a 5-10 minute 'Day 5' interval (according to the aired show: he just chewed on root pulp and had his first failed attempt at hunting weaver birds)

    All the food/water-still stuff was moved to the 'Day 6' label. The 'Night 6' footage is probably from his fifth night.

    To Les Stroud's defense, he never says he stayed for a full seven days throughout his entire narration – even on 'Day 7' his narration and his on-camera dialogue seemed to indicate that he was leaving unexpectedly. Stroud, at the beginning of 'Day 6,' specifically narrates that he was 12+ hours without water (he ran out on Day 4), and FIVE days with little food (the locust and some beans).

    The editor(s) of the show (of both the four cameras and Stroud's after-event narration/commentary) probably thought it was in the show's best interest to create a 'Day 7.'

    I mean, Les Stroud stated that the editing process usually happens at the same time as planning for the next adventure (a period of five weeks after the previous adventure, according to an interview on 'The Science Channel' ).

    Bear in mind that the Kalahari Desert episode was filmed AFTER the Amazon episode, which Stroud, again, does not complete a full 7 days. Yes, the Amazon episode was shown after the Kalahari Desert episode; however, in a 'Behind the Scenes' episode, Stroud reiterates his experience with fishing for catfish in the Amazon to his Kalahari Desert survival trainer. Also, the third episode (in Labrador) he also does not complete a full 7 days due to the melting sea ice. With that knowledge, the show's other producer probably feared that the first three aired episodes of the new season would make it appear that 'survival is impossible' … which is a message that contraries the mantra of the show ('stay positive to survive' ).

    I guess it was possible that there was a period where Stroud may have objected to this decision-- however, I am willing to give him a benefit of the doubt since he is usually in bad condition after every show/adventure to do much else besides narrating and getting mentally/physically prepared for the next endeavor.

    In any case, I can easily see some editor/director making these kinds of calls to edit the show in a more favorable light or justifying it that way. Though I may not condone it, I really don't think this single lapse in judgment makes this show close to being as misrepresentative as 'Man vs. Wild'. I mean, Stroud is starving most of the time and almost dying in every other episode… yet he tries to keep going on (despite drawbacks) unless he knows he can't do so without risking his own life. I really can't say the same of 'Man vs. Wild' and its legitimacy.

    Edited on 10/14/2007 6:06am
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  • Avatar of Temporaryscars

    Temporaryscars

    [24]Oct 15, 2007
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    Well, like I said, i'm a big fan of the show, and never did I compare it to the Man vs Wild fiasco, but I think it light of that, it's in the show's best interest to be completely honest about everything. I don't care who did it, whether it were Les or some lowly editor, it shouldn't have happened.
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  • Avatar of jzack1017

    jzack1017

    [25]Oct 17, 2007
    • member since: 10/14/07
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    Temporaryscars wrote:
    Well, like I said, i'm a big fan of the show, and never did I compare it to the Man vs Wild fiasco, but I think it light of that, it's in the show's best interest to be completely honest about everything. I don't care who did it, whether it were Les or some lowly editor, it shouldn't have happened.

    I don't know if hot-linking is okay here, but:

    http://survivorman.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127

    The moderator (editor: Andy Peterson) over at the SurvivorMan forums made a statement. It was an oversight on the editor's part and they apologized for it -- basically saying that it was an editorial error. I think being lied to is a serious offense; however, if they are willing to admit to fault and citing a very reasonable explanation, then I don't associate their actions to an outright betrayal of our trust unless proven otherwise. If there is no intent to deceive, then that's not lying.

    I mean, for the most part, you per se didn't compare the show to Man vs. Wild (and I apologize if you thought I did). However, I believe other users have made the comparison with the same 'mistrust' issue that 'Man vs. Wild' carries; I brought it up as it seemed relevant (if we can't trust the show's sincerity, then the show doesn't need to exist).

    In any case, I think if they really wanted to lie to us, they could've done it explicitly so (and made sure the journal and the show was consistent at all times, but we would've caught on at some point just by small hints in the video clips).

    However, since the evidence cited for 'lying' is from the show itself AND the blog entry from the host of the show (rather than only in-show points of discrepancy--like him running out of water in the 3rd day and still having some on the 4th or something like that, or having a crew hold his hand when he specifically says he's alone), I can let them get away for this single 'editorial oversight/error.'

    If they are honest about the mistake, then I can't fault them unless it happens again. If they weren't responsive to this issue, then I'd just chalk it up with a vote of 'no confidence.' However, they did respond... and to me, that's a big deal.

    There are many safer ways of doing a 'survival' show; they really don't have to carry this premise. However, people enjoy the show based on the premise's sincerity and genuineness: I would think they (the editors/producers/host of the show) would really care if people thought otherwise. Since these types of people are the show's target audience, I am sure if people were consistently vocal about 'keeping the show real' ... the show would accommodate.

    I think it is good to point out these flaws -- it makes the show a whole lot better when they know their audience expects quality and honesty.

    Edited on 10/17/2007 2:49am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of ha-Y-n1

    ha-Y-n1

    [26]Oct 17, 2007
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    hey, nice find zack. I finally watched the episode and Temp was right, but I am glad that the editors know that it happened and owned up to it.

    Survivorman FTW!
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  • Avatar of Temporaryscars

    Temporaryscars

    [27]Oct 17, 2007
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    Way to hijack my discovery! You could have at least given me credit.
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  • Avatar of ha-Y-n1

    ha-Y-n1

    [28]Oct 18, 2007
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    Temporaryscars wrote:
    Way to hijack my discovery! You could have at least given me credit.

    Good Job, here's a cookie. Good Job, Have a Cookie!

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  • Avatar of Temporaryscars

    Temporaryscars

    [29]Oct 19, 2007
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    Oh man...I wish...
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [30]Mar 22, 2008
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    I watch this show on an occasional basis, usually through holiday marathons. Even if there was a discrepancy here, I don't care that much. The bottom line is that Les is actually out there in the wilderness or on the ocean or wherever, with very few resources, struggling to survive. If the producers clarified the discrepancy on the official forum, then that's good enough for me.

    I've only seen a couple scenes of Man vs. Wild, maybe a more recent show. It looks like they aren't even trying to hide the fact that he has a complete camera crew with him anymore, at least from the scenes that I saw.

    Les is a bit of an extreme individual but I think he's really experiencing everything you see on the show, minor details aside.
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  • Avatar of lennydonkey

    lennydonkey

    [31]Mar 25, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    I watch this show on an occasional basis, usually through holiday marathons. Even if there was a discrepancy here, I don't care that much. The bottom line is that Les is actually out there in the wilderness or on the ocean or wherever, with very few resources, struggling to survive. If the producers clarified the discrepancy on the official forum, then that's good enough for me. I've only seen a couple scenes of Man vs. Wild, maybe a more recent show. It looks like they aren't even trying to hide the fact that he has a complete camera crew with him anymore, at least from the scenes that I saw. Les is a bit of an extreme individual but I think he's really experiencing everything you see on the show, minor details aside.

    Agreed. And I definitely count a mislabel in post production that they immediately responded to in the official forum as a "minor error."

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  • Avatar of BrainiacMM

    BrainiacMM

    [32]Apr 2, 2008
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    Still way better then man vs wild!

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  • Avatar of serasuzie

    serasuzie

    [33]May 8, 2008
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    Ya know, I noticed something in previous eps where he is paddling and such and claims to only have one cam w/him but yet, it shows an underwater shot. Not sure if that;s been discussed already and I'm sick right now, so I don't feel like looking but I found it odd that he would take the time to place a cam that way and then come back for it. I mean, I thought he was supposed to be when he went out....not to mention tired. Doesn't seem to make sense. Love the show, I just think they might be fudging a bit.
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  • Avatar of serasuzie

    serasuzie

    [34]May 8, 2008
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    I meant to say "I thought he was supposed to be alone when he went out" sorry...sick.
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  • Avatar of lennydonkey

    lennydonkey

    [35]May 15, 2008
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    serasuzie wrote:
    Ya know, I noticed something in previous eps where he is paddling and such and claims to only have one cam w/him but yet, it shows an underwater shot. Not sure if that;s been discussed already and I'm sick right now, so I don't feel like looking but I found it odd that he would take the time to place a cam that way and then come back for it. I mean, I thought he was supposed to be when he went out....not to mention tired. Doesn't seem to make sense. Love the show, I just think they might be fudging a bit.

    Actually setting up a camera then going back for it is exactly what he does. There's a "Behind the Scenes" episode where he shows his rigs and set-ups. And at one point he even says that when you see a long shot of him hiking or climbing to realize he had to do it twice, once to set up the camera, another to do it on film.

    Another reason he's way more hardcore then Man vs Wild.

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  • Avatar of serasuzie

    serasuzie

    [36]May 19, 2008
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    Cool. I'm going to keep an eye out for that one to re-air. I saw it was on a while back but was on my way out the door and forgot to dvr it. Thanks.
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  • Avatar of kim39

    kim39

    [37]Jun 2, 2008
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    his editors says that it was a mistake. he only made it 6 days witch is longer then I expected.
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  • Avatar of Smokin32

    Smokin32

    [38]Jun 2, 2008
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    Well a lil slack is deserved here. If this is the biggest discrepency that people can come up with, then he deserves alot of respect compared to the "other guy" who is only acting like a survival expert. Even when Les "cheats" by giving up or using equipment he shouldnt be, they make sure to air that.

    As for 6 or 7 days, I guess it just depends on how one counts. If I spend a night at a hotel, thats a day to me, but in the eyes of a hotel thats 2days plus one night.

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  • Avatar of Intranetusa

    Intranetusa

    [39]Jun 11, 2008
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    lennydonkey wrote:
    Actually setting up a camera then going back for it is exactly what he does.


    He probably spends 4 of the 7 days setting up and retrieving the cameras. lol
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  • Avatar of dirtydog1992

    dirtydog1992

    [40]Jun 21, 2008
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    If Les Stroud does end up having to "quit" or anything like that he does a heck of a lot better than that Bear Grylls guy. That is hands down my vote. 6 days or 7 days he does an excellent job with this show and I love watching it. I have about 7 - 9 episodes recorded onto my DVR.
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