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This week's episode of Teen Wolf found Stiles in Eichen House, simultaneously a smart and foolish decision, since he needs to be committed or incarcerated somewhere before the nogitsune can take over his body again but the same institution that housed Barrow was probably a poor choice even if it's only a short drive. Either way, Stiles strikes a deal with erstwhile were-coyote Malia to help her learn how to turn back into a coyote if she helps him get into the basement. One punch, a shower scene, a "quiet room" rescue, and several hours of file-reading investigation later, the two find themselves alone on a dusty chartreuse sofa, which looked like it escaped the 60s only to be exiled to a mental institution boiler room.

Then, the internet exploded. Because this happened.



The flirtation quietly and sweetly escalated. Stiles asks Malia to check the Lichtenberg figure on his back and shivers at her icy touch, since now that she doesn't have her fur coat, Malia's relentlessly cold. Stiles takes her hands to warm them, but finds Malia staring at him. She surprises him with a kiss. "Was that your first kiss?" She nods. "Would you like to try it again?" She nods. "I'd like to try something else." "Something else?" She removes her shirt, he moves in, and she slides underneath him. The two are rediscovered fully clothed and spooning on the mysteriously discarded (and even more mysteriously colored) sofa.

And no one, no one can agree on anything. Shippers are variously delighted, incensed, and confused. Doesn't Stiles love Lydia? Aren't Stiles and Derek accidentally meant to be? Why did Cora have to leave for South America? Wait, didn't Danny offer to take his flower? Whatever happened to delightful, drunk bisexual Caitlin from the black-light party? But not only that, no one is completely sure what actually happened!

Some are (perhaps justifiably) concerned about their lack of protection. After all, it's unlikely Eichen House allows its residents to carry condoms around. However, given that Teen Wolf has been responsible in the past about (rather realistically) promoting safe sex—including Allison scavenging Kate's bag early in Season 1, Melissa finding a condom box in Scott's room and then subsequently talking to Allison's mother about ensuring that they both stay safe and smart, and Stiles ransacking Heather's bathroom for her brother's stash—I doubt the show would be careless here. It's one of the reasons I lean a little more toward thinking they didn't have sex so much as do some heavy kissing and cuddling. (Also, I mean how quickly did they get re-dressed if they did have sex?!) Some are simply bewildered by their blindingly swift romance. It's true that it was hardly a romance until it really was, but it's one that impresses me. It was a simultaneously hot, intimate, and sweet moment however you slice it.

But regardless of what you make of Malia or the circumstances of their hook-up, it does little to clarify whether or not Stiles lost his virginity. I have no real dog in this fight. I don't much care whether he did or not. Even more, I think it's more important that we don't know! It's part of a pervasive and sensible attitude toward sex that Teen Wolf has cultivated from the beginning, one that doesn't make a spectacle of sexual experience, especially losing one's virginity. Sex—whether you're having it or not—is an important part of maturing into an adult, and Teen Wolf treats it with its due respect, but like shattering the myth of the "first love," it doesn't unduly elevate the loss of one's virginity (an idea that is necessarily variable anyway) to some importance that it doesn't and shouldn't have.



We get some glimpses into the characters' sexual lives. We know, for instance, that Lydia and Jackson were lovers, that Lydia and Aidan have had sex, and that Scott and Allison were sexually active together. But no show is made of their "first time". We never know when Scott and Allison start having sex, but like a parent might discover, we just find out eventually that they are. And aside from the deliberately antiquated druid sacrifices, there's little discussion of a character's virginity. Is Isaac a virgin? Danny? Kira? We may assume one way or the other, but, really, what does it matter?

So, did Stiles and Malia have sex? Did Stiles lose his virginity? I don't know. But quite frankly, either way it's just none of my business!


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Sorry just started watching Teen Wolf so I'm a little late to the party. It seems like there's a lot of people on this forum who are very quick to defend themselves as uncaring about Stiles' virginity because they feel the article's calling them out about it and they don't want to be labeled as superficial drones in this incredibly sex-obsessed society. The fact of the matter is it's okay to care or be interested or speculate. We humans are naturally inquisitive beings. So relax guys.

Personally I like how Teen Wolf never established when Alison and Scott first made love, and would have no problem if they did the same with Stiles, but I would have a problem with the show if we had no idea who Stiles lost his virginity to. Even though virginity is hard to pin down, losing it does still hold some significance for a lot of people and Stiles is the type of person who would feel that way, so he would look back on that experience and the person he shared it with fondly. E.g. the number of times he went on about how much Heather meant to him and how quickly he and Caitlin bonded over a mutual tragedy at the rave.

As of right now Stiles has had so many love interests (Lydia, Heather, Caitlin, Malia, even Cora) that I don't think it would be true to his character for him just sleep with one of them and then move on to the next. He would grow attached. In response to the aching question I think they probably slept together just because the whole pulling off the shirt thing and fading to black seemed pretty self-explanatory. What I mainly have a problem with is the condom issue. Stiles is not stupid, and even if he feels like it might be coming to the end of his life, he's not irresponsible enough to risk burdening Malia with single motherhood just because he might die, so their having unprotected sex seems untrue to his character. My guess is simply because presumably neither of them have had sex they figured STDs were not a huge problem and I'm hoping he was smart enough to pull out or she was on birth control. Also I'm only at the end of season 3 so if there have been developments no spoilers please. K thx.
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So, I was just revisiting a few of my former posts, and I found your comment. YES! First of all. This is a very fine, thoughtful response, and I agree fully with nearly all of it.

I absolutely concur that Stiles would find significance in losing his virginity, however he might define that, as I'm sure did both Scott and Allison. It would have great meaning for him, and I suspect he would always regard his first lover with great fondness. Whether that means she would be someone he wouldn't let go is harder to say. (If, for example, he and Heather had had sex in the cellar, I don't know if or how their friendship would have changed. She means a lot to him, but she meant a lot to him before their almost-sex, even though they rarely saw one another.)

I don't mean to suggest that sexual experience isn't meaningful, because I think for most people most of the time, it is, even if they think that it's not. What I take issue with is the mythology and ceremony around the "first time", especially in pop culture. (Consider all of the "lose your virginity" comedies, some satirical about it but most are disturbingly straight-faced.)

I look forward to knowing what you think after Season 4.
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I doubt Kira is a virgin, don't get me wrong I love Kira alot i'm not trying to bash her because she is hands down one of my favorite characters but idt she's a virgin and they probably would of made it obvious like they do with Stiles and idt they would put someone like that to date Stiles knowing how mature and Stuff Scott is. Of course Isaac isn't a virgin, hello?!?! and Danny if hes the one putting in well he isn't a virgin but if it's the other way around well he is o.o
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So, I'm not even sure I can untangle all of that, though I think you're inadvertently raising some of the cultural confusion about sex that Teen Wolf is slyly undoing or undermining. I don't think it says anything moral about any of the characters whether or not they've ever had sex. Whether or not Kira is a "virgin" (however we define that), it doesn't have any bearing at all on whether I like her. While Stiles' virginity status was a thing during the darach killings, I don't know that they've been "obvious" about it since. (The actors, particularly Shelley Hennig, seem convinced, and the suggestions are there, but it's not indisputable.) As for Isaac, he certainly had sex with Allison during "De-Void" (after I originally posted), but there's no indication one way or the other about whether or not that was his first time. And Danny. I don't think I understand your rationale...maybe not even your tone...but that in itself is probably an indication of just how erratic and different definitions of "sex" and "virginity" can be. We talk about it like it's something real, something inherent in sexual experience, but really it's something we've more or less made up.
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stfu if u read the ending you would of seen the writer ask if kira or danny or whoever else was a virgin
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Whoa. First of all, I AM the writer of the post. The part I think you're referring to:

"Is Isaac a virgin? Danny? Kira? We may assume one way or the other, but, really, what does it matter?"

They were rhetorical questions, as the subsequent comment makes clear. The point being: we may make intuitive judgments or draw conclusions based on assumptions and biases, but for most of the characters not only is their "virginity" status unknown, it's unimportant.

While I disagree (sometimes fervently) with several underlying principles and assumptions your comment above makes, my reply was intended to raise discussion and elicit clarification, not start a fight or cut you off. But I will not "shut the fuck up," and I won't respond further to hostility.
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Does anyone else notice we rarely see Stiles shirtless?
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In the past all the half naked eye candy has been were wolves, egotists and super fit people [i.e Danny]. Stiles is beloved for being the awkward, fumbling human that does not have a physical presence [being the nogitsune was all about mind games and not physical dominance, too]. They dress him in wacky and loose fitting shirts, they make him self deprecating, slouchy and 'dorky'. It's his character, and so far there hasn't really been a reason for him to get his kit off, in my opinion.

They are just trying to distract us form the fact that Dylan O'Brien is sporting some goods under all that plaid ;)

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It's true. For as much upper-body skin as Teen Wolf regularly shows, Dylan O'Brien doesn't get much of it. Even his sliced t-shirt—from his virtual self-disembowelment—showed up later with an undershirt. I don't mind, necessarily, but the shirt was close enough to flesh-toned that it actually distracted me because it looked wrong. It may be that O'Brien's requested to eliminate or minimize these scenes for him. I don't know whether or not this is the case, but he has to know he'll never have an audience more invested in fake-crushing on him than most of Teen Wolf's fanbase.

Or perhaps it's just one really, really long tease.
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I think the undershirt was more about continuity than anything. He probably filmed those scenes and the ones with the cut on his stomach at the same time and they needed to cover up the gash because at that point he wasn't supposed to have it anymore (remember, Deaton made a comment about it healing).
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I think whether Stiles did or did not lose his virginity should not matter. I always love how the show doesn't make a big deal out of their characters being sexually active. It's true to real life and being a teenager, unlike how the show 7th Heaven (hoechlin was on it!) tried to force abstinence. The choice is purely up to you and your preference. Plus I also love how chill Teen Wolf is when it comes to same sex couples. It's refreshing and true to our generation, and gives you moments like when Stiles is asked if he is into guys and he contemplates an answer! So instead of asking whether he lost his virginity or not, we should be praising the show for making this a "no big deal" moment. It allows us to focus on whats really important to the show, the amazing acting chops of Dylan O'Brien!
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I don't think they went all the way, but I'm not really too invested in the answer either. :)
I just think that while first times don't have to be (and rarely are) "magical" or particularly successfull, for Stiles to be up for something like this while tired, ill and terrified, without protection, with a girl he hardly knows would be quite out of character for him.
Seriously.
He wants to get laid, I get that.
But I just don't think he had it in himself - and I DON'T think he'd do that to MALIA.
Who has been "human" for all of a couple of months, at most, and has a sh*tload of issues, and is probably, for all intents and purposes about 12 emotionally (she remained a coyote mostly so she wouldn't have to deal with the fallout of "causing" her family's death, i.e. she hasn't handled human emotions since the crash 8 years ago - she was like 9 or so at the time, wasn't she?) - and has probably just had her period for the first time ever.
Give the girl a break, huh?
I just don't think she's up for sexing.
Cuddling, yes - while coyotes have smaller packs and are generally less tightly organized than wolves, they DO tend towards small packs or pairs rather than solitude, meaning that Malia is probably particularly touch-starved and skin-hungry - but sexing?
Just not seeing it.

So I'm going with two desperate, damaged individuals finding a moment of solace and connection, giving in to a bit of that "OMG I'm going to die let's get it ON"-instinct that humans often get in a crisis, while still being both fragile and sensible enough that they keep it in their pants.

Doesn't mean I would mind them developing more of a relationship later.
You know, when it wouldn't seem quite so much like Stiles perving on a minor...
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I do believe Stiles got laid and I'm glad. Stiles is a great guy and finally someone in that universe saw it! I have begun to truly like Lydia and I know there are a bunch of Stydia fans out there, but come on folks, she keeps overlooking Stiles time and time again. If the dude has brooding chiseled features and a six pack she is totally happy. Malia is a supernatural hottie tottie and Stiles finally got his due. I also think if the Malia/Stiles thing moved forward we could have some great Peter/Stiles moments with this set-up! Kudos all around and I hope after this whole evil nongitsune thing is over we get to develop this whole angle.
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I've changed my mind. While watching this episode, I was thinking "Please tell me this isn't how Stiles loses his virginity". I felt completely disappointed. But now I'm thinking he didn't actually have sex.

He and Malia barely know each other. I would hope they're not that desperate for (unprotected!) sex. Also, Stiles is like the last remaining virgin in Beacon Hills. When he finally has sex, it should be memorable and he should be able to talk to Scott about it. Or, at the very least, have Scott and the guys tease him about it. This has been a long time coming. And lastly, I know this is the romantic in me talking, but he shouldn't lose his virginity in some dank basement of a mental institution while he's institutionalized.

I kind of hope that he and Malia actually do it in the future, but under better circumstances! :)
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well to me it was obvious that they had sex. i think the whole reason the had her take off her shirt was so it would give us the signal that it was about to happen without having to say or show more than they did. i know many of the girls, and some guys, here are in love with stiles and want him for themselves but he had sex that day.
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I guess what I love most about this scene is that it leaves room to change your mind. And re-change your mind. I kinda hope it stays that way.
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Yes, I've changed my mind a couple of times already :P
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Truthfully I don't think he did... He was still fully dressed after, and I think she still had her pants on. I'm not saying it can't be done like that, but if seemed more like a heavy make out session to me. I also don't think Stiles would have without a condom, remeber the last time?
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In truth, I tend to agree. But thinking back, the moral of the last time is: you stop to go get a condom and your would-be lover ends up garotted by a homicidal druid. It's a little bit of a mixed message. ;)
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Yeah i think he did got laid. Now, to be honest i didn't like it. It was cute but it wasn't okay. I think it was rushed and kind of unrealistic. So this girl goes back to her human form and one of the first things she wants to do is have sex with a guy? I think the main reason i didn't like it was because of her. She looked so normal after all she've been through. Maybe if it was a little bit later (season 4 lets say) then i would have like it. But this is just my opinion so...
Oh and they didn't even got undressed.
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but you have to add in that its peter hales child.... peter hales for crying out load what do you think she going to be like with that DNA running wild
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haha yeah i give you that point
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They didn't have sex Dylan obrien confirmed at alphacon but I hope they have sex in season 4.. U no this is teen wolf and we haven't seem a teen pregnancy haha lol out saying I want that to happen at all it just kind of funny
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good then!
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i just cant believe stiles would just do it with a girl he just met, i dont know...and without protection ugh it felt like they just needed this out of the way and with malia ? wtf .
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But it can make sense if you think about dramatics and dynamics of desperation: Stiles has just learned that he will most probably die, either to dementia or just mentally die giving his body to the kitsune. Malia was forced out of his animal form. Also they were in an isntitution where you are basically at the authority's mercy. So, both of them had some major body autonomy issues, which makes it believable that they would just let the moment to take control and just for a moment do something with their bodies that was theirs and theirs only.

Even the lack of protection is believable, but only if the series will get back to it. The series' level of realism in these things is in line with this scene, but only if Stiles will freak out about it afterwards when there isn't things like a threat of dying at first in his mind.
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They looked way to happy just to have made out
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In real life whether or not someone is a virgin is none of my business. However this is not real life, this is Teen Wolf, and every single thing that happens to these characters is my complete and total business.
People, such as myself, might not be that interested if they had not made such a thing of Stiles being a virgin. Stiles is a virgin, Stiles is a virgin, Stiles could be a human sacrifice because he is a virgin....OMG, I get it! Now I care....
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I take your point. Stiles' panic during the darach's virgin attacks put it front and center. Heather gets snatched right before having sex with Stiles. Emily is attacked right before having sex with Caitlin. (Both of which make me curious about just what was going on at the pool!) Like an inverted echo of the semi-moralizing horror trope of killing off teenagers right after they have sex, the darach's first triptych definitely made something of virginity.

Would you be disappointed if you never found out when Stiles' first time was/is? If, like Scott and Allison, at some point it's just confirmed that he's been having sex for a while? Or discovering, for instance, that even in all the hubbub with the alphas, the darach, and the nogitsune, he already lost his virginity to someone else? I'm sincerely curious. Is this really important to other viewers? I guess I could see the show-writers making an exception for Stiles, making his first time more of a "thing" than the other characters', but I could also see them not.

For me, what I liked most about the scene was that Malia's first kiss acted as a sort of surrogate for sexual "first"s. Stiles' charming and thoughtful and generous reaction to her overtures worked the same way a sex scene might without there necessarily being sex involved. But the same is true for any sexual experimentation, from first kiss, to first fondle, to first penetration and so on. It's more about the dynamic between the lovers than the act itself.
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I would find it disappointing if they suddenly stated that he had sex or was in a relationship without building up to it because I don't see Stiles-the-character as capable of doing something like that without tying himself emotionally to that character - and we all know he's loyal TO A FAULT.
So while he might sex someone who isn't an integral part of his life or his One True Love, just by sexing them he would become emotionally invested in them and so leaving them completely out of the story would feel very OOC and jolt me out of the narrative.
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I think I might be disappointed because It seems to have been really important to Stiles throughout the show. Also it has been made so clear that he is a virgin that him losing that status has become important to the development of his character.(IMO) It's kind of funny when you think about that fact.
On a side note I am interested why people care more about the fact that he might have lost his virginity than the fact that he has dementia.
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So true about the dementia, but what that means is as yet still weirdly undefined (or perhaps under-explained). Is it genuinely a normal biological disorder he inherited from his mother? Are the patches of brain atrophy visible on Stiles' MRI caused by the nogitsune in his head? Some combination thereof? Would the healing abilities of a werewolf counteract the effects of the dementia and/or exorcise the nogitsune? Though, I suppose, a post titled "Dementia in Teen Wolf, or Is the Problem with Stiles' Brain a Pathology?" could also be an interesting topic.

I guess my personal reluctance for a Stiles-loses-his-virginity plot is that those kinds of stories are so very, very rarely any good and almost always played as slapstick or the precursor to some massive romance drama. Nor ultimately do they add much to how I understand the characters. I, for one, don't think Stiles will change by having sex.
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@Wivil

I really like your points below. Part of the progression of Stiles this season (both 3A and 3B) has, I think, been exactly that, moving away from some distant smitten puppy-love crush on Lydia to a deepening friendship with her, which is largely independent from (though not exclusive of) sexual attraction. I also think this has corresponded with his growing interest in other women and other women's growing interest in him. (Although I cannot stress enough the power of his summer hair re-style.)

I mean, for all the chatter about Stiles being hopeless with women, he certainly gets most of the random attention. Out of an entire party of people, Heather chooses Stiles as the guy she wants to have sex with. Stiles may be surprised, but he handles himself well. In an entire room of people, Caitlin spontaneously kisses Stiles. And Malia is strongly attracted to Stiles after only a short time. However you cut it, Stiles is getting a lot of almost-play. And when given the chance—again, more and more frequently—he seems quite adept at it. Stiles could easily be becoming Teen Wolf's most unexpected ladies' man. (Or, as a generous amount of fan fiction would have it, everyone's man.)
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When I said it would be an important development to his character I didn't think that by itself would change his character but it is sort of the beginning of a change. Stiles lack of interaction with woman(and as some keep praying for men) has been pointed out over and over.Throughout the whole show it has always been Lydia that Stiles has wanted. Maybe the development is more that he is branching out in general when it comes to woman. I'm not saying that Stiles will no longer love Lydia but maybe he will stop waiting around.
In the end this might not be a losing ones virginity plot that leads to some massive romance drama but a character branching out.
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Looking at the poll results as I write this, I'm struck: Fourteen whole people actually think Stiles losing his virginity---a fan-favorite plot point that nearly made a whole episode last season---would be hand-waved aside with a vague fade-to-black, under the eyes of a demon voyeur in the basement of a mental asylum, while also carelessly casting aside the "safe sex" stance the show has done an admirably subtle and consistent job of maintaining?

Really?

Fourteen whole people?

For shame, Internets, you disappoint me.
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"Demon voyeur"! I love it. (Is a demon voyeur worse than other kinds of voyeurs?)

I guess my main point—and one that apparently only one person sympathizes with—is that, in my opinion, Stiles losing his virginity mostly shouldn't be a "fan-favorite plot point", at least in the layered (and sometimes cagey) representation of sex in Teen Wolf. There's only so much you can actually show on television—unless you're HBO—but most shows are unambiguous about whether sex has been had. Teen Wolf's different. And its opacity on the subject rightly recognizes sexual experience as a continuum rather than a binary. Sex encompasses a range of activities that one may continue to discover and explore long into adulthood, making the idea of a "first time" somewhat arbitrary and poorly defined. The cultural importance it has garnered, the need to make it somehow more special than every other time, doesn't fit in well with Teen Wolf's general depiction of sex, so I think the show's been circumspect about making that moment unequivocal for any of its characters.
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I think only like second base was reached. Basically I had this whole silly idea that they might eventually have sex, but it will be the Nogistune and that will 'change' Stiles enough to eject it (if we take Deaton at his word that his Japanese isn't that great and he was sort of summarizing what he thought it did). Plus, we know Stiles, Our Stiles, knows enough about protection since he stopped the whole Heather thing from happening (and I don't see him having the thought process that he should hurry with Malia so an evil entity won't sacrifice her). But I don't have any of the consent issues that people have talked about (or the who Stiles belongs with issues because, come on, totally normal teenager otherwise) because even though Malia's mental development might be a little stunted, she is not actually nine nor mentally nine, she tortured herself so much as a coyote and who knows what the coyote might have done.
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From teen wolf to teen mom.

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In which pregnant Malia returns home to Papa Tate, and bio-dad Peter moves upstairs to help her raise a litter of were-coyote pups and teach them how to wear v-necks.
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AND she gets to rant publicly and extensively about how Stiles got selfish and mean after he knocked her up, like he's an entirely different person who doesn't care about her or the kids. He's erratic, unreliable, and a terrible father.
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