A Teen Wolf Community
Monday 10:00 PM on MTV - Music Television

Teen Wolf S03E21: "The Fox and the Wolf"


HI GUYS.

Bad news and I'm very sorry, but it turns out that hexes are real and now my body is turning inside out. In other words I am sick, I was sick all night, I invented something called the cry-puke, and I was not able to recover enough to finish this photo recap. Again, I'm so sorry.

The main thing I am sorry about, though, is that "The Fox and the Wolf" was very, VERY GOOD and it's begging to be talked about. Just a devastating hour of television that was, well, sort of astounding to me. Astounding in the sense that a teen supernatural horror dramedy is one of the few pieces of pop culture in decades to address a subject as important and desperately in need of awareness as the Japanese-American internment camps during WWII. And not only address it but do it WELL. Thoughtful, artfully filmed, appropriately horrifying, and still relatable to young people. I just don't think it can be overstated what an achievement this episode (and in a larger sense this season) is. Sorry for getting real on you, but so did Teen Wolf, and I loved every second of it. Do I think actual werewolves were involved in the Japanese-American internment camps? Probably not. But emotionally Teen Wolf nailed it in a way I would have never expected.


Here are some bullet points from "The Fox and the Wolf" worth discussing:

... Kira's mother is officially amazing now. We're talking Mrs. Argent levels of perfection.

... That elevator scene with Allison and Sheriff Stilinski. What other show would take the time to check in on its characters' emotional states with such empathy? So real and so understated and so moving. 

... Soldiers are handsome.

... Did you frown very hard when the "Isaac" chess piece was just lying on the table beside the chess board?

... Does or does not the Nogitsune love to murder? It seemed like he killed A LOT of people back in the day but then the modern day gang seemed confident that he was simply a prankster. Which is it?

... Did Kira's mom look like a teenager for 840 years and then suddenly grow up? Do you think that will be addressed? Will Kira also be immortal? I'm obsessed with this family now.


ANYWAY HEY. I could use your help! Before my body was transformed into my arch-nemesis, I was just about to start the captioning phase of the recap, which means I now have 70-something images in need of words. PLEASE CAPTION THEM! You guys are funnier and smarter than I am, so if you want, please right-click and "copy image URL" or save these images to your desktop to paste/re-upload them as comments below (once you paste an image URL or upload an image, the caption field will let you write on it). Or caption them however else you'd like, I'm not the boss of you. But I'd love to see what you come up with! (Assuming I survive the day.)

Once again, sorry if I let anybody down. I hope to be back in the saddle soon. (I don't own a saddle, that was a metaphor, I currently have a restraining order against all horses.) Talk to you soon, and please have fun:



Thanks for understanding, guys. I'm off to go find a wizard or a druid or whatever to save my life. Pray for me. And thank you again, sincerely.

Price P.


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 3/8/2016

Season 5 : Episode 20

572 Comments
Comments (572)
Submit
Sort: Latest | Popular
"Is there any reason my name is on the king?" Derek asked.

'"Because Stiles is the queen." Shouted the entire Sterek community.



Teen Wolf Sterek FanFiction by Saskia Queen.
2
Reply
Flag










More+
7
Reply
Flag

"LOL OOPS"
Reply
Flag

"It's not easy being as badass as meZ"

1
Reply
Flag


"Come at me bruh"
2
Reply
Flag

"Sup pops"
Reply
Flag
.
"story time"
or "You got some splainin to do"
Reply
Flag
I know sometimes actors can put together more than one series at a time. Just noticed Noshiko, (Tamlyn Tomito) has a 4 episode arc on Resurrection.

Reply
Flag
I hope you're feeling better, Price!!
1
Reply
Flag
Take care Price, I hope you'll get well soon !
Reply
Flag
OMG! Have you seen the extended sneak peak for monday. Stiles stabs himself in front of noshiko and delivers his chaos line, she asks what have you done. A twin is in a world of hurt, looks like hes slashed across the chest. Isaac's bashing something, and holy jeez, stiles is playing chess with the nogitsune. (Its hard to catch that right at the end, its a quick flash.
Reply
Flag
Since we've hardly seen Isaac, it's hard to think he'll survive the end of the season. Plus, they've never put him into the opening credits and I thought he deserved a spot in the opening credit sequence since 3A. However, I remember Jeff Davis saying that a character that's been around since season 1 is going to die (and that the death will be final). So my vote is for Allison, though I'd much prefer Peter.
2
Reply
Flag
Me too.
I believe Allison should die but I am a bit biased as I've hated Allison since season 1
So yeah. :/
Reply
Flag
One other thing. In the clip. Why are the Oni attacking the sheriff, and people in the hospital.

Reply
Flag
I wish we could clone "evil" Stiles and keep him around for awhile. I think him stalking Lydia down that hallway is going to be a classic scene, and when he says "chaos has come again" in the clip. It gives me chills. How is Jeff going to find a more convincing, or evil villain for the future.
2
Reply
Flag

I should have accepted the role in Memoirs of a Geisha!
2
Reply
Flag

YOUU .... SHALL NOT ... PAAASS!!!

8
Reply
Flag
Damn, now when I watch Lord of the Rings I will think of this scene...
Reply
Flag


Shadow play?! ... Yes please!
2
Reply
Flag
So, "love of one's life" -- and how does the new husband feel about that -- trumps "best friend". It was eventually killed but still kept alive. Along as that fly is alive, the evil spirit will eventually continue on. Unless it's magically taken out of Stiles.

Scott and Co. clearly don't care about any body count that doesn't involve Stiles and perhaps others they love in some way. Scott didn't even seem that concerned when his father almost died.

Are we really supposed to care about Stiles and Scott this much? Kira's mother has a far more fascinating and sympathetic story than any of these people outside the Hale family. The world would probably be better off with Derek as alpha again, the Argents -- with Derek as their associate -- killing evil things, Lydia being around, and Scott dead -- or at least not an alpha. To 'outsiders', killing Stiles would be a no-brainer. And Scott and Co. would essentially all be put in prison for aiding and abetting a mass murderer.
Reply
Flag
I wasn't surprised that Scott didn't care when his father got hurt. He barely knows his father after the long absence. They don't seem to have much a of a connection since they have a broken relationship.

As for Kira's mom, I don't actually feel sorry for her at all. She was arrogantly stealing, putting everyone at risk. She's the one who incited the riot, though that wasn't her intention. And her love story didn't actually seem like a love story to me, more like a lust one. This is just my opinion.
Reply
Flag
All the screen shots from this episode are making me want to start watching this show again
3
Reply
Flag
Okay, there are just way too many comments for me to see if this has already been discussed, but can we talk about the chess board? Isaac had been removed from the board because of his recent injuries, right?

Isn't interesting then that Kate was left on the board? Even though he's been dead for over a year? Is the fox gonna somehow bring Kate back?
4
Reply
Flag
I'm not understanding that either.
Reply
Flag
Is there any way to download all these pictures.
Reply
Flag
Holy! Cow! Got to love teen wolf friends. If some of the things that are possibly leaking out of S4 production (it could all be a hoax though). S4 will be awesome. Lets just say if the ending of 3 is what has been "leaked" elsewhere or at least some it is true. i think we will be loving the episode. Because its too spoilerish, and totally not confirmed, but they do really fit the photos that have been released from S4. I'll discuss further through PM's/mail.
Reply
Flag
This comment has been removed.
Reply
Flag
Tell me more!
Reply
Flag
things that should be addressed:
1. why is it a problem that the kids gave power back to the Nemeton? When Mrs Yokimura burried that magic fly all those decades ago, the tree was at full power, huge, and green. I assumed she picked it out cuz the Nemeton having power was NOT a problem.
2. she was so grief stricken and weak and the corruption in the camp was the worse she'd ever seen so she had a momentary lapse of judgement and called forth a Nogitsune. Really? she was over 800 at that point. didn't she knwo how bad it will go? and she had never found herself in a tough spot before?! we are talking about a woman who was alive through the middle ages! she was alive during the Spanish Inquisition!!! ok, maybe she wasn't in Europe at the time, but i don't remember it being all rainbows and carefree happiness in other places on the globe circa the 1400s.
6
Reply
Flag
But isn't that possibly a big thing about every human, being human. That we can give in at any moment.
2
Reply
Flag
she's not human though. she's an immortal spirit being or magical being of 'wisdom'...aren't foxes supposed to be clever and sneaky and slippery? and at 800 plus she called forth the Nogitsune and claims ignorance of how bad it would go and that she had no other solution? it's the 800 plus that annoys me...if she had been a young fox, representing her human form age, around 20 or so, yes, i could see that...they put the 800 there to look impressive or sm? cuz it certainly screwed the story...
unless she IS a nogitsune herslef and the entity with the flies are her minions and the first time she stopped it cuz she lost control of it... she did say she's not a thunder fox. and she was stealing at the camp. and her words did ignite those riots... maybe it wasn't an accident or bad judgement. maybe she WAS going for chaos.
3
Reply
Flag
Not only does it seem she has some form of humanity, she never claimed she didn't know the terror the nogitsune could cause. its quite the contrary. She said she was so hurt and angry that she couldnt let herself die without vengeance. She had assumed she'd be possessed herself and would probably still die soon after, but her anger pushed her to do it anyway. It's once she realized the spirit would have her instead witness it all come from the hands of her then, great love that she let the anger go, that she understood she couldn't let that power continue unchecked. This offended the nogitsune and as soon as it could break free it latched onto Stiles, the least suspicious of the three whom unintentionally released it. and the most vulnerable it seems. This is all to get at Kira's mom and likely Kira as well. I know 800 sounds like she must be wise, but she could easily be the charming young fox too. It's not wisdom alone that could cause her to survive that long. a pretty smile could often give her opportunities to either charm her way out of a situation or disarm someone long enough to slip away. It's clear that shes drastically changed in the last few decades. Perhaps her outward appearance reflects her inner maturity. she was forced to accept what she did and had to move forward so maybe thats the catalyst that made her begin to age. maybe shes aging with her mate or something, in any case I think it makes a lot of sense for someone who feels so powerful to mistake that for invincibility and thus be foolish.
More +
Reply
Flag
I understand your point and I'm not sure the 800 years isn't over doing it a little. I think we've got to remember she thought it would possess her. Is Scott a human or a werewolf? Is Lydia a human or a banshee? I see the characters as humans with other forms, mostly the reason I answered like I did.
Reply
Flag
So Price has been transformed into a crying, puking, Orca? That just can't be good. Seems to be pretty common though - I know a dozen people who have come down with something as have I. No Orca symptoms yet, so I guess I should count my blessings.

On the other hand, I am thinking spin-off (like they are doing with Supernatural). Sort of like a cross between the A Team and Archer except with half-as*ed were creatures (possessive coyote, puking Orca, maybe a sleep Ox?).

I thought the focus of the episode on the internment camps was pretty amazing given the genre and the network. Another example of Teen Wolf really playing against expectations and doing something special.

In terms of the story though I was not as impressed. I thought it was a good, but not great episode. One thing I've noticed (that I am not liking) is the characters all spending time apart this Season. Maybe I'm just not remembering it as much from past Seasons, or maybe it is really about Stiles not spending as much time with Scott (which I think is really the core relationship on the show) but I am not loving that structure. I've mentioned before that it reminds me too much of the latest Season of Arrested Development.

I also had no love (no love) for the love story. Forget about the implications of the power dynamic (which is offset by her being an 850 year old supernatural creature - which actually makes her the creepy on in that relationship) I just didn't find it compelling or interesting.

I don't generally agree with Price with his worship of randomness for the sake of randomness, but I found the Nogi more interesting before I found out it was possessing her burned up lover. They mythology also doesn't really hang together that well for me at this point either, although maybe that will get explained later.

For instance, I still don't understand why killing the Nogi didn't banish it (the way killing the one in Japan did) or why she didn't use ONI the first time, or why the Nogi would use the old body as it's default once it was released etc. etc.

Still one of the Seasons I like best but this episode and the last one were solid but not outstanding (again subject to the focus on the camps which I thought was remarkable for the show).
More+
1
Reply
Flag
Jeez. Did anyone watch jeff on after after show. He definitely used deaths, not death. Although I think most of us are expecting that.
1
Reply
Flag
They'd better not kill off too many favorites! :(
Reply
Flag
Did Kira's mom look like a teenager for 840 years and then suddenly grow up? Do you think that will be addressed? Will Kira also be immortal? - My first thought is that she probably started aging when she got pregnant with Kira. Unless Kira has (had?) a bunch of extremely older siblings, then my theory is a moo point.
1
Reply
Flag
My guess is that Noshiko can choose is she wants to stay that age. Once she got married, it would seem odd to have a child at that young age (not as weird as being 840 lol)
3
Reply
Flag

follow me on tumber at everything-is-funny.tumblr.com!!!
11
Reply
Flag
"Kira's mother is officially amazing now".
Wha? By definition she admitted to being a mass murderer but whatever. Any respectable Katana wielding Samurai would've been cringing heavily at her sword play - you cut in reverse with it, ask Michonne! I thought her acting was hammy too. Not really a good mother either, as she sends her inexperienced daughter off to battle. Surely she should've trained her daughter. And didn't I hear it right when she said we (her current husband and her) imprisoned the Nogitsune under the tree - that needs explaining? Isn't it creepy for her to be with a much younger mortal?
Isaac is just a grunt/pawn of a chess piece.

"... Does or does not the Nogitsune love to murder?" Yeah well he was just reanimated in a person who'd been burned alive and lost his lover.


3
Reply
Flag
  • Well, she didn't actually murder anyone directly. She called on the Nogitsune to help avenge what had just transpired because she believed she'd die otherwise and those people would escape justice. I think she was mainly concerned about the doctor, but the Nogitsune killed EVERYONE. That's like saying Derek murdered everyone that Jackson killed while under the control of Matt and Gerard.
  • I believe they're pushing the idea that Kitsune have a natural fighting ability. Recall how Kira mentioned how she was picking swordplay really fast? And then when her mom tossed her the katana, she caught it and twirled in a way that was supposed to be impressive? Also, unlike wolves, foxes are not pack animals, so Kitsune might be expected to learn things on their own by nature.
  • To be fair, it's not like she'd be able to find a mortal much closer to her age. At some point, age becomes less of a factor. Consider a 70 year old and a 90 year old. Compare that to a 20 year old and a 40 year old. They also alluded to the fact that she doesn't really many options in terms of a mate when Kira's dad explained that he took her name because she was the only surviving member of her family. I took that to mean that she was the last Kitsune, since she and Kira are of different elements. I'm not sure why she aged so much in the past 70 years, seeing as she looked like a teenager during WW2, and was over 800 at that time. Maybe she's altering her appearance so as not to draw attention? She looks to be in her 40s now, so while there's a little fudging, maybe she started aging when she gave birth to Kira? Anyway, if she's 900, and could potentially live several more centuries, I don't see why she should sentence herself to being alone just because there no eligible 1000 year old beings out there.
  • Scott and the twins were also represented by pawns, so...
More +
2
Reply
Flag
C'mon! She summons something she knows is going to result in mass death, whether by her hand or the thing brought forth. In the eyes of the law (or lore!) it's akin to either buying a gun with the intent of using it or hiring someone. That's a murder charge plain and simple. Plus in this case, she was warned about summoning the Nogitsune but chose to ignore it. It's like what Mulder said to the Devil worshippers in The X-Files, "Don’t Call Up the Devil and Expect Him to Behave"! Her life may've been in peril but her intent was clear to kill all the Americans at the camp. Note how she was to not even consider taking out the old werewolf who burned her lover alive. The werewolf knew she was sweet on him and that he was turning a blind eye to help. It was just, yeah well some unaligned werewolves can have trouble controlling rage. Mom is still full of rage and had no sympathy for the medical staff or guards that were ok but got slaughtered. She made herself as bad, or worse, than her captors.
Jackson was an out-an-out victim, so I don't believe you can cite that reference.
At that time the guards would've more or less believed they were guarding potential hostiles/POW's. And yet compare their treatment to how the Japanese were known to be treating foreign hostiles/POW's? I'm not saying it was ok with what happened on either side btw.
A natural ability doesn't equate to outright skill. Kira may be gifted but up against a skilled veteran, of sorts, she could easily lose - think of Scott et al. Vs. Allison and her ol blue eyes dad!
She may be 900yo and get lonely but it'd still be odd, creepy and/or too painful to keep seeing your lover age and die - just ask The Highlander! Plus she talks of mortal beings with little regard at times. I can't see her having an equal respect for even her husband after centuries of watching humans destroy. she knows there are other supernaturals out there, why not look around for one? Although to me, she does appear to be somewhat racist - or specist in assigning speciesism!
The Isaac thing, I was just noting that from the reviewer's comment.


More +
2
Reply
Flag
I'm not sure you understand how guns work? I just bought one, and I intend to use it---in self-defense, should the need arise. I, however, will only use to shoot someone who tries to break into my home and/or cause me bodily harm. I will not just continue shooting everyone in the area until I'm out of bullets or someone else shoots me. That's a difference. If I shoot someone who has broken into my home, I will not face murder charges.

The mom believed the Nogitsune would possess her body, which would be risky, but she probably believed she'd eventually be able to control it due to her nature. Consider that Stiles tried to have Kira killed. She's a threat just because of what she is, not because she can twirl a sword around.

As for calling the Nogitsune, yes, she was angry, but she was also about to die. Her body had slowed down to the point where it seemed she was dead because it was healing itself from all the bullets, but she was about to get burned while her body was already in that very sensitive state, which meant she was *not* going to survive that without some sort of intervention. The Nogitsune was the only option she was able to come up with in that very specific time frame under those specific circumstances.

The guards were not guarding POWs though. They were guarding **American citizens** who happened to be of Japanese decent just because we were at war with Japan.

So. The Highlander. Creepy that he got with Tess? I mean, he was a few hundred years old, and she was... I don't know, 30? I guess in his case, he did have options closer to his age, but that pesky, "in the end there can be only one" rule could put a strain on any relationship. Same thing applies to vampires, right? Like in the Vampire Diaries, True Blood, Twilight, whatever? I mean, those are some old dudes, and they're pretty much hooking up with teenagers or 20-somethings. Creepy.
More +
Reply
Flag
Pretty much! I think she should find another super-something if she wants a relationship. But yeah, it was mentioned that her bunch should be guardians and not judgmental destroyers. If you listen to the way she talks of humans, werewolves etc., she has little regard and is more than willing to get all utilitarian it she thinks it's easier. She has lost any real sense of remorse or worth of others and that's a very bad state to be when in her position. Of course it's not a black and white area to live in, but even so.
Flag
Is she supposed to have higher morals? Did they say that somewhere? I see her as any other human-based creature--human emotions, human morals, human alignments akin to D&D. Take a look at the immortals from Highlander; as time progressed, some mellowed and gained a greater appreciation for life, while others lost sight of its value. We can also look at pretty much all of the werewolves on TW; Peter, Derek, Deucalion, and Scott? All very different. The ancients on Stargate... the vampires on the various shows... all very different in terms of morals. Why are we holding Kira's mom to a higher standard? The only difference between her and the others is that she's lived a lot longer, which you seem to think means she should just live and die alone because having a relationship with anyone under 500 is just way creepy.
Flag
I probably wouldn't but then I'm not a higher being with supposed higher morals. She, however, is supposed to represent each. I find her lack of respect for life disturbing, then and even more so now.
Flag
A snap judgment after getting shot multiple times, watching the person I loved be burned alive and then succumb to the burns without any sort of anesthesia because of a crooked doctor, who was also responsible for the death of several people I'd grown to care for because he was selling medicine they needed on the black market, and this all happened because the government decided that I other citizens who shared my racial background needed to be forced out of their homes and into "camps" that were essentially prisons all because we were at war with the country they or their ancestors originally came from. Sure, mate, let's hope I'm never placed in that situation.

Also, the situation you're trying to draw parallels to isn't quite accurate either since she was also protecting her own life by calling on the Nogitsune. Without help, she would have been burned alive by those soldiers, so she had the choice of allowing herself to be killed ortaking a chance with the Nogitsune. Are you saying you'd just be like, "well, I guess I'll just die then. Whatever."
Flag
I understand perfectly well how guns work and how the law would read it in her situation - as I already alluded to. It would be akin to you getting beaten up by a home intruder; then going out straight after and buying a gun and, hunting and killing them.
"...eventually be able to control it.."
That's hilarious in the context.
In any case, let's hope you never have to make a snap judgement mate.
1
Flag
Poor Price:( i totally know how it is when your body goes all Evil Nemesis on you so of course you didn't let anyone down...u just get better!*Sends possitive thoughts and vibes Price's way*
2
Reply
Flag







More+
20
Reply
Flag
http://ca-mi-lla.tumblr.com/post/78648804204/hales-emissary-ca-mi-lla-hales-emissary

Someone found (spotted) Gina Holden (the guest actress that was announced to be in the episode Eichen House and we never saw her. Maybe she is the Clue of "hidden in Plain sight"
3
Reply
Flag
Many TW fans speculate that this probably is Claudia Stilinski. If you look close, she is playing too (maybe chess or Go).
1
Reply
Flag



is all i could think of
4
Reply
Flag
Great theory here.
Credit to: medieval-genius





This is known as Playing Chess with Death. Its a trope that is commonly used now in many television shows and films (most famously Bill and Ted’s Bogus Journey) but all began with the 1957 film The Seventh Seal. In it a man tries to forestall his demise by challenging death to a game of chess.

And it literally explains everything.

Stiles, knowing that he has been possessed by a Nogitsune challenges him to a game of Go (sometimes referred to as the Japanese version of Chess) and being a trickster who loves games, how can the Nogitsune resist? This becomes a way for him to forestall the foxes complete take over of his mind leading to the death of himself.

Since that point literally all of 3b has been nothing more than a giant game of Go being acted out in our reality with reality being bent based on the move the player makes.This would explain a lot of the inconsistencies regarding Stiles and other characters clothing. The call backs to past episodes, the clues being left by Stiles from the numbers telling Barrow to kill Kira.

From the keys to the chemical closet mysterious appearing and disappearing, literally the entire post that I made the other day about connections has been answered. This would also explain Riddled. In this is the first time we actually see the tug of war — the game between these two being played out. You could literally do an entire meta and pick apart the moves that each player makes.


It’s all rather brilliant when you think about it. This gives the writers the ability to play and toy with reality without turning the season into a dream sequence. It also explains the behaviors of certain characters in their relationship with Stiles this season. They each are playing a role in either player’s particular strategy. For Stiles, the obvious player is Lydia.because her banshee abilities give her the advantage to see and hear things the others can’t.


Another key player, possibly the most important player revealed from the most recent episode, is Derek. This makes Derek’s sudden ability to put two and two together regarding Stiles possession by Nogitsune, his ability to sense Stiles was in a struggle, the fact that he went looking for Stiles for two days, etc. He has a key role to play in Stiles strategy to defeat the Nogitsune. His the King. The endgame. The Divine Move. To what end, I do not know, but he is Stiles’ trump card.


Again, I could meta this forever but I don’t have the patience or the time to sit and list out all the examples of the moves made by either Stiles or the Nogistune. But I figured I would put the idea forth to see if maybe other more industrious people could do what I cannot and to see if anyone agrees with my idea.

More+
29
Reply
Flag
That would be a very bad move. It would be almost the same as a dream sequence. Ive seen shows try this kind of thing your suggesting before and its never gone over well .
1
Reply
Flag
wow good theory, makes a lot of sense, where the rpevious post? i would like ot read it,
Reply
Flag
Interesting. But I suspect many people would not respond well to a variation on it all being a dream (or you know something even more lame like purgatory - yes, yes I am looking at you Lost).

So I don't think its a question of the merits of the approach, I just don't think the show would go down a road that has the potential to be that polarizing.

But it is a surprising show...
Reply
Flag
I love this suggestion.
1
Reply
Flag

33
Reply
Flag
One caption for every photo... MISTAKES WERE MADE
9
Reply
Flag
Ok. Sorry to be sort of nuts, but I tend to write what I'm thinking at the moment. And this morning getting ready for work, I thought of some open storylines, etc, etc and some questions and they are somewhat related.

#1 Was Malia introduced to replace Jackson as Peter's offspring. I was reading an old article about him leaving TW and it was partially because he wanted more episodes than he was originally getting. He was supposed to be the focal point of 3b, if you gather info from everything that was written at the time. Didn't a car crash take his parents. Interesting???????? I think I would have liked a recast Jackson instead of the Malia storyline. Why the hell is she a coyote.

These are a little smaller in nature.
#2 Was Kate really responsible for the Hale fire? If so how the heck could a super alpha like Talia not escape, while apparantly peter did. Why were their human kids inside. Where was Derek? Where was Kora? How old is Derek? What all did Talia tell Derek?

#3 Whose claw marks were in the side of Malia's mom's care. I'm sorry but those were just to big to have been an pre puberty girl.

#4 Who cut down the nemeton?

#5 Are there more Argents out there? Does Allison have some younger siblings that we haven't been introduced to. It doesn't make sense to me that such a vaunted family would be so small. Where is Gerard?

#6 Noshiko's age and tails, how doe those work anyways?

This is my biggest plot hole so far?
#7 The timing for Stiles doesn't really make sense to me. How was he leaving a note for Barrow to kill Kira, and helping him in school etc, before the 2 ever met. It seems they are wanting us to believe Stiles became the Nogitsune when Barrow tried to electrocute Kira?

Feel free to comment? There are more but they slipped my mind for now?
More+
7
Reply
Flag
i gave up on any hope of the show giving us any answers that make sense. or any answers at all really. yep.
Reply
Flag
In regards to the question about Gerard, I heard someone say he was turning into like the huge "super kanima" that Peter and Derek watched a video on a few seasons ago. Jackson was it's beta form or something, and Gerard'll be the actual Big Bad or something.

Kinda far-fetched to me, but I don't know.
Reply
Flag
1) See, I think Jackson was around too long to just recast him. I think they could've gotten away with it with Cora though. I did read something similar though. That Jackson had an important arc this season, but he left because they only wanted him for twelve episodes out of twenty four, and he wasn't going to be in the first six at all. Honestly, I can't blame him for leaving. And I agree, I think Malia is his replacement story wise.

2) We don't know how Peter made it out. Perhaps he wasn't inside when the fire started, but tried to get in to get others out? That's just speculation of course. There were kids in the fire because there were human members of the pack. I assume humans married in, and the genetic dice roll determined whether kids will be werewolf or human. Derek and Laura were allegedly at school, but that still leaves why ten year old Cora wasn't in school. It also doesn't explain why she, knowing her siblings were in school, just ran away when she got out instead of going to the police department or something to try and find them.

3) They were also in the wrong position for it to be someone trying to get out of the car. The look like something trying to get in to me. But the fact is we just don't know yet.

4) we also don't know that yet. But it's certainly been narrowed down to being between 1946 and 2002. Give or take.

5) I doubt she has any siblings, but she could certainly have other extended family we have yet to meet. I found it odd myself that the family appears so small. Gerard having only two children, one dying, presumedly, before she had any children, and the other only having one. But Chris could have other siblings that have yet to be shown. We don't know what's up with Gerard yet. I say it's safe to assume he hasn't died yet, I would think even if he died off screen they would have mentioned it on screen.

6) Noshiko is 900 years old, and you get a tail for every hundred years you live.

7) That throws me off too. My only guess is that the Nogitsune was controlling him, but to be fully powered up it needed the electric shock.
More +
2
Reply
Flag
peter was inside, remember the first season he was burned and paralyzed? he got lucky and with time he became an alpha all on his own drawing power from the moon each month
Reply
Flag
Clearly, I remember he was burnt and paralyzed. I'm saying maybe he wasn't inside when it started, but went in to try and help people out. I seem to remember him being on one side of a wall of flames from a man and a kid or two, in what I believe was the basement. It's doubtful, but possible.
Reply
Flag
I think he stole the alpha power from Laura, then healed with the moonlight.
3
Reply
Flag
I tend to think we are going to get more info on the hales, Another reason I think Derek would be safe. And normally i would say the same thing about Allison, just too much more story in there.
1
Reply
Flag
Just one more thing on this, I seem to remember jeff saying somewhere allison was going to have another moment with Gerard.

Reply
Flag
About Stiles, and the nogitsune. See Stiles was already possessed, perhaps from the very start after he woke up from the death-bath or when he got knocked-out before going to the nematon. Anyway the point I'm making is, the nogitsune was posssessing stiles already, and apparently it has the power to twist people of weak minds with those fly things? which were found in Barrow.
Derek deduced that the nogitsune somehow got powered up inside stiles through Kira's electrocution. No way of knowing if that is the actual truth or if that just bullshit.
1
Reply
Flag
From Melissa Ponzio (Mama McCall) official Tumblr:

THE SO CALLED TEEN WOLF SPOILERS

melissaponzio1:

hey guys-so i just spent some time reading some of the so-called ‘spoilers’ that are out there…please remember that these all are peoples opinion and expert guessing at best…unless someone has a script (like me) and posts a screenshot of it (not a chance in hell), then we really don’t know what’s going to happen, right? right.

we only have three episodes left…let’s enjoy them as they naturally unfold, shall we? spoilers are just that. they spoil. so just try your best to enjoy the show from here on out…

xo-mama mccallUgh, we love Melissa Ponzio. Very very much &3 &3 &3
4
Reply
Flag
Maybe Jeff shouldn't have spoiled this then.
Reply
Flag
I'm going to stay on the spoiler rant, maybe jeff will not tease such a major characters death ever again. Possible spoilers.








I was just looking over a handy little email a friend sent me and the convention season starts full steam ahead in April. I'm not going to say if it means anything or not, but I haven't seen anyone killed off come back except for Jennifer in some form, and she said it was a surprise but she really didn't talk much.

Just a few that jumped out because I thought they may die (still might) who knows maybe it is a coverup.

This is a list of all the living characters. It looks like some dead favorites may be returning for conventions as well.
Tyler Posey, Linden, Dylan O'Brien, Holland, Keahu (surprise and he is at at least 2), Max (NO Charlie: Whoops that might be bad), Sharman, Ian, JR and Hoechlin (later in the year).
Reply
Flag
"Kira's mother is officially amazing now. We're talking Mrs. Argent levels of perfection."

I thought her acting wasn't very good, and the character doesn't make much sense to me. She never told Kira that she was a Kitsune. She was apparently very concerned about Kira dating a werewolf, but still didn't say anything. Kitsune/nogitsune powers are too silly for me. They're so random, almost nonsensical. Knives in a box represent her tails? Breaking them creates Oni? "Lightning" can weld pieces of a broken sword together? And what's up with all the flies?
12
Reply
Flag











I hope you feel better soon, Price!
14
Reply
Flag
This. Was. Amazing!!! haha
1
Reply
Flag
I don't have the energy (or innate capacity) to do the captions - but I think there is something to be made out of a reference to twist off bottle caps and popping off the guy's head.
Reply
Flag
oh well... I love every character this season, but I was somehow bored during this episode. Hopefully it comes back up again next week.
3
Reply
Flag
That soldier boy/nogitsune ...he looks familiar...its eating me up. I wanna say he looks like Klaus...maybe a Klaus-Isaac baby. Ugh. Maybe he just has one of those faces.
3
Reply
Flag
I think the reason the Nogitsune slaughtered all those people in he camp was because that time he was specifically summoned for revenge. Like a genie from a bottle, he appeared to fulfil a "wish" AKA revenge. He was just working overtime and killed more than Noshiko wanted.

So this time around he's just doing it's own thing. The people it was summoned to take revenge on are all most definitely dead, so now it can do whatever it wants. Which is why it's playing deadly pranks to create chaos, just messing with everyone to cause pain and strife.

So back then it was there to kill and destroy, because that was what it was summoned for, now it's just having fun.
10
Reply
Flag
I see some comments being disappointed about this episode. I am sorry, but I really must explain some things; while I can certainly see reasons why people were at times less entertained, really, this episode is one of the most important ever made on youth television.

Yes, a few things were predictable like the relationship between our foxy mom and the soldier. But it remains a good storyline, I would say; it connected all the people involved intimately. Kira's mother is not just here to stop the nogitsune, she's the very reason it was created.

But you guys, this episode was an honest, heart-breaking descent into war crimes usually glossed over because the victors write the history books. Do you guys not understand the singular importance of this? This episode could have bored me to tears (it did not - the way that the story came full circle makes this the best sub-plot of Teen Wolf so far, much better than e.g. Jackson's weird lizard days) and I would still rate it as immensely important for that sake.

Do you not see the importance of acknowledging that something as gruesome as war turns people on both sides into villains? There were camps in Europe, yes, but also in North America (let's not forget about the British during the Boer wars). People stole medicine and sold it on the black market; exploiting the absolutely weakest people during the greatest crisis simply to earn money.

This was such a powerful tour de force into human character; people finding love in the worst of circumstances, people committing the basest of acts for their own gain, people made desperate by being treated as animals and herded together - just that one sleazy guard feeling up a female prisoner, such a brief scene and yet scathingly accurate in its depiction of power abuse and why we should always strive to avoid scenarios like this.

Even just the elevator scene between the sheriff and Allison; genuine emotion, not to have romantic angst or drama over feeling misunderstood etc. etc. This was an acknowledgement that at her age, Allison is still in some ways a child; she's being forced to mature far too fast, she's constantly thrown into situations she shouldn't have to deal with. You give that poor girl a hug, sheriff, and you make it tight.

Guys, do you not realise the cultural importance of TV? It has and will probably remain for a long time the strongest proponent of culture in our society. We need episodes like this to remind us of what the history books prefer to forget, to remind us that while we glamourise violence, it has an effect on those who are forced to commit it (remember Kira's dad's remark to his wife about sending children to war? SO SPOT ON). If you think this episode was boring because it was not mindless entertainment, you need to re-think your entire approach to culture (or just think one up in the first place).
More+
25
Reply
Flag
I agree that incorporating the camps in a real way (not just a throw away reference or even a part of an episode - but essentially for a full episode and as a core feature of the Season) is remarkable for this show, or really any show.

So on that level it was a really great episode and even an important episode, and not in a "very special episode of Blossom" way, but genuinely.

I can also understand (although I would not pretend to be able to really speak to) why this would be an even more emotional and significant episode for a lot of people. Not only people who experienced, or had family who experienced, the camps but also anyone who has faced that kind of extremism and stigma.

That being said, I don't think that labelling something (even legitimately) as important television is a good reason to shut down conversation or debate about the quality of an episode. For that matter, what anyone means by "quality" itself is open to almost endless debate.

More fundamentally, I also don't think it is an either or scenario. There is no reason you can't do something important and also make it entertaining. For me the episode gets a 9/10 (or maybe a 10/10 in the context) for "importance" but a 7/10 (maybe 1 up or down) for entertainment.
More +
1
Reply
Flag
You're right that we can still debate the entertainment value of this episode; I didn't mean to sound like I wanted to shut that down, sorry. I just got a little upset that some people seemed to think this episode was pointless without even acknowledging its relevance. But certainly, discuss its entertainment value all you want. I wasn't 100% satisfied with that part either, I found it a little predictable in some avenues, and I couldn't completely make sense of how the adult team thought they were tracking Stiles (they seemed to mostly talk without actually having a clue of what to do).
1
Reply
Flag
Fair comments, and I didn't mean to overstate your position and suggest you were trying to shut down debate.
1
Reply
Flag
Agree with you 100%. I have to admitted (I'm from another country not USA) that I never heard or read of this camps. So I'm impress like Price said that a supernatural dramedy teen show like TW addressed this important issue in the most real way (hahaha except the fox and the wolf) like you mentioned before (the doctor selling the drugs, the man trying to abuse or hinting that they abuse the women, etc.). Kudos to TW. This scenes separed and elevated you above all the supernatural shows right now.
5
Reply
Flag
Load More Comments
Follow this Show
Members
9,262
  • 8:00 pm
    America's Got Talent Live Show 3
    NEW
    NBC
  •  
    Bachelor in Paradise
    NEW
    ABC
  • 9:00 pm
    CBS
  •  
    MADtv Episode Four
    NEW
    CW
  •  
    Bachelor in Paradise: After Paradise
    NEW
    ABC
  • 10:00 pm
    Better Late than Never Episode 1
    NEW
    NBC
  •  
    The View
    NEW
    ABC