Official Discussion Thread - Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep (spoilers)

  • Avatar of lowriderz95s10

    lowriderz95s10

    [1]Feb 27, 2009
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    Please direct all discussion for "Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep" here.
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  • Avatar of ilee1990

    ilee1990

    [2]Feb 27, 2009
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    Can someone post some info? I'm still an hour away from broadcast time here.
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  • Avatar of Auriken

    Auriken

    [3]Feb 27, 2009
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    That was a disturbingly cute and authentic smile Cameron gave to John at the beginning of the episode. I had the same reaction John did to a scantily clad Cameron. I swear, she does it on purpose.
    Edited on 02/27/2009 8:30pm
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  • Avatar of ilee1990

    ilee1990

    [4]Feb 27, 2009
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    Not my favorite episode. The entire story about the sleep clinic was actually the drug induced dream. But who was the guy talking to? They had to be humans since the wharehouse was blown up by the terminator. This guy is trying to find out who Sarah's accomplice is because he thinks *she* is responsible. So now they want John.

    Interesteing turn of events. But where is it going?

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  • Avatar of kidkiffin

    kidkiffin

    [5]Feb 27, 2009
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    good not great, i did love the deception. were we supposed to believe that the sleep clinic was real. but it was all a drug induced dream. i gotta admit a lot of posters probably got dreams of summer glau in lingerie.

    anyways... the plot was good to close the whole factory storyline and move forward.

    it did raise questions. so there are survivors of the plant that are looking for the HK or weaver? is there a company under zeira corp looking after the destruction of the factory? probably the insurance companies are lookin for that. that is something weave can't really contain. too many questions.

    i missed the previews for next week my DVR cut it off. i just saw cammeron talk to sarah and blam cut off. i probobably should DVR dollhouse too.

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  • Avatar of therealcromar

    therealcromar

    [6]Feb 28, 2009
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    Well I must be in the minority because I loved this episode. It was loaded with symbolism and Sarah's subconscience. By the way, I was watching this with a friend who said about 10 minutes into the episode "I bet the sleep clinic is the dream, and the van is real". I put my bets on the van being a repressed (drug induced or otherwise) memory and not a dream. I lost the bet!

    Anyway, there were a few events that were shown to the viewer that were not visible by Sarah, though she was the 95% centerpoint of the episode. Those scenes, with the nurse, with John + Cameron, and so on showed a lot of her paranoia and general instability. It tells me she is jealous of Cameron for a lot of reasons, and not just the obvious one (imagining all the flirtation between them). John points to Cameron and says "you're not her"; Sarah wishes she were, though. She has a mission and she wishes she had the determination of a machine. Sleep is a waste of time that could be spent hunting Skynet. The whole scenario in her dream is based around her perceived faults.

    But what struck me even more was Nurse Terminator's lines at the end: they were all Cameron lines! Thank you for explaining, etc. In the way that nurses have total control over sick patients, she is very, very paranoid over Cameron having total control over both of their lives. Dana was unable to defend herself as she slept, Sarah is worried she could not defend John against Cameron whether awake OR asleep! It also played into Sarah's paranoia of Skynet being EVERYWHERE; she can't even go to a random sleep clinic without it being some Skynet test.

    On a side note, this episode was very painful to watch live, as the commercials were more aggressive than usual. Definitely not watching live next week.

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  • Avatar of hakkersszz

    hakkersszz

    [7]Feb 28, 2009
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    Loved the episode. I actually believed the clinic was real, and was like "wtf..." when it turned out not to be.
    It hit me immediatly after John and Sarah got killed. I mean, killing the main characters? Right...

    Anyways, I made a nice cap of the highlight of the episode.
    Guy's, don't choke your chicken

    Edited on 02/28/2009 7:44am
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  • Avatar of jjrrffkk

    jjrrffkk

    [8]Feb 28, 2009
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    I thought the episode was a doozy. I would like to submit the hypothesis that BOTH the sleep deprivation clinic and the off-site sotrage unit/garage were real.

    But since we know that Sarah has been sleep deprived for at least two weeks already, the reality and unreality (of a dream state) would meld together.

    I think that John did erase Sarah's data from the database. But the end part of the sequence showed that some of it was not what it seemed. (I think that their being discovered, and the shooting by John and the rest wasn't there. The Terimantor Nurse didn't behave like a Terminator--you can shoot them, and they keep coming. Like the comment in a previous episode--"They always come through the front door."

    The van hostage thing was also real, and unreal. She had killed the guy at the plant. But remember she has a high threshhold for pain, and has been sleep deprived. How do you think tasering such an individual would affect their perception of reality? Stabbing the guy in the eye with a hyperdermic needle, and he doesn't fall down? Then he removes it from his eye, and proceeds to fight her down to the ground? Her biting through her artery/vein in her wrist to remove her hand-cuff manacle?

    Not real. I think she was taken hostage, but not by the guy she killed. When you are in her state of mind, she started putting elements of her "emotional memory" into play, and started imprinting on the person who was torturing her. (He was.) He also smacked her around, and the blood on her face probably came from that.

    I also have to put in this comment: When Cameron came walking through the one scene in her underwear, I went "What????!!!!" LOL It was so incongruous. But in light of the fact that reality/unreality was melding together, perhaps Sarah is worried that Cameron will seduce her son. AND CAMERON MAY YET DO THAT> But Kudoes to the person who posted the video grab. Summer is definitely "hotttttt".

    Doozy of an episode.

    Side comment on trend: Later yesterday evening, I happened to watch a little bit of the TV show "Numb3rs." In that episode too, a hottt girl strips down to her lingerie and turns around for a character to gawk at her (including the males in the TV audience). She looked good in the underwear, I thought. But it got me wondering if the writers of these episodes are so bored out of their minds, that they have decided to throw in gratuitous scenes of girls in their underthings. Does that really spark ratings? What's going on with that? Is there now going to be a trend of actresses getting down to their underthings? Will this further the plot?

    Side comment

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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [9]Feb 28, 2009
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    I also thought this was a great episode (even if it was once again all about Sarah). I loved the smile Cameron gave John in the cafeteria. And yes hakkersszz you are completely right =)

    I still have a question though: Was Sarah raped in that van? I mean her pants were open... That was a little disturbing...

    Also: Wouldn't a taser be the perfect weapon against a terminator?

    Edited on 02/28/2009 7:12am
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  • Avatar of JJMPB

    JJMPB

    [10]Feb 28, 2009
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    i guess that is why she got captured cause she should have seen that comin a mile away
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  • Avatar of sittolytic

    sittolytic

    [11]Feb 28, 2009
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    The "Sixth Sense" revelation we have at the end was exciting, but for the most part this episode was just a lot of Sarah doing everything while nothing actually happens! They really need to step it up with the action if they're going to give us a worthwhile end to the season--because so far, the show is probably getting canned after this season, so it needs to go out fighting.
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  • Avatar of Bloodbath_87

    Bloodbath_87

    [12]Feb 28, 2009
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    hakkersszz wrote:

    Loved the episode. I actually believed the clinic was real, and was like "wtf..." when it turned out not to be.
    It hit me immediatly after John and Sarah got killed. I mean, killing the main characters? Right...

    Anyways, I made a nice cap of the highlight of the episode.
    Guy's, don't choke your chicken


    Nice.
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  • Avatar of hakkersszz

    hakkersszz

    [13]Feb 28, 2009
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    Thanks for the comments guy's.
    I alway's cap my favorite moments of the show.

    I just wished Summer would get more screen time.
    Lately it seems they focus more and more on Sarah and her unstable mass they call a brain.

    I mean, make Cameron go evil again, or make people discover she's a robot.
    There are so many things they can do with the character.

    Btw, what was with the smile?
    Since when does she show emotion to people that know she's a machine?
    What's the use of it?

    Edited on 02/28/2009 7:46am
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  • Avatar of jjrrffkk

    jjrrffkk

    [14]Feb 28, 2009
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    I think you're right, that the guy may have taken off some of her clothing. I don't know if he raped her or not, but that's a possibility. A dark possibility.

    But again, how much of her van hostage experience was completely real, or part of her in-and-out dream state (due to sleep deprivation), don't know.

    I can tell you that I spent a 30 hour awake period about 2 years ago. I had to drive home (about 3 hours) from an international airport. I got home about 1 AM (after being in Las Vegas--I then landed at an airport in the East). On the last 10 miles or so, I was seeing blocky, jumpy, jerky dark animal-like things getting onto the road. I knew that they weren't real, as they followed my eye movement.

    But if I was having that, and if our heroine was sleep deprived for 2 weeks, was tortured and beat up, and perhaps raped, then everything that happened would appear natural....
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  • Avatar of BiniBeans

    BiniBeans

    [15]Feb 28, 2009
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    Talk about an involved episode, man! They do do know how to obscure it up.
    I guess I had my doubts when the guy in the clinic showed up with the coyote tattoo and then when he later warned Sarah to take charge.
    But well done overall.
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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [16]Feb 28, 2009
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    Btw, what was with the smile?
    Since when does she show emotion to people that know she's a machine?
    What's the use of it?

    If you watch her carefully, I think she does this on a very regular basis (show emotion). especially in regards to John. If u can, go back and watch/study her interaction with the family members(John,Sarah & Derick)in past episodes. You will see a full range of very human emotional responses like feelings of rejection, subtle emotional replies to insulting remarks including sarcasm ( In one ep. Sarah made a comment toward her using the term "tin man", after Cam inquired as to what she meant by that Sarah came off her "high horse" rephrased her comment and Cam simultaneously said almost sarcastically said "thanks for explaining" as she walked away), signs of being emotionally hurt by the other family members "comments" at times, etc. Notice her body language, vocal tones..it's very subtle but iit's there. When ever another family member says anything negative against John behind his back, she almost always defends him..Sarah.."Johns not listening", Cam.."Johns always listening"..Cam.."John wont be seeing Riley anymore"..Sarah.."we'll see" (or something like that) Cam.."snaps back" at her "Johns not stupid!" ..Sarah."I don't like the way he responds to you"...Cam...in a very "cutting" tone of voice.."you got what you wanted" as she "stomps" off. It's also Worthy to note she shows a very human weakness here, that is over confidence, as John did the exact opposite as to what she thought he would. There was a brief encounter with Derick at their ammo stash where she shows fear, on an emotional level (remember she could snap his neck with one quick grasp), and again defending John from his comment "John needs to get his head in the game"

    The scenes at the Mexican jail, I think, not only show her emotional feelings toward john, but a turning point in the way Derick feels about her. The only words out of his mouth were very sensible and logical.."we need to take cover".."we need to get out of here".."were no good to him dead" Cam, on the other hand was almost at a state of total panic as she examined bullet ridden corpses.."Jonh Baum..where is he!".."I got to find John!"...."I can't let anything happen to him!". Derick was watching this like he couldn't believe what he was seeing, also as they walking toward the jail he was "covering her back"..not that she would need it..but still..

    I think she is a very special type of cyborg that is so close to being human that she almost is, more than she even realizes, has the capability of every human emotion and quality, love, hate, happiness, loneliness, pride, a sense of right and wrong..you name it. These things are slowly developing in her and its as if she doesn't know how to deal with these changes. This, I think, was also one of the reasons she was sent back, as the post J-day world seems to be a rather poor place to lean these things. If physical protection was the only reason why not just get another "Arnold" type to look after him?

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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [17]Feb 28, 2009
    • member since: 02/19/09
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    Sahlinrob wrote:

    Btw, what was with the smile?
    Since when does she show emotion to people that know she's a machine?
    What's the use of it?

    If you watch her carefully, I think she does this on a very regular basis (show emotion). especially in regards to John. If u can, go back and watch/study her interaction with the family members(John,Sarah & Derick)in past episodes. You will see a full range of very human emotional responses like feelings of rejection, subtle emotional replies to insulting remarks including sarcasm ( In one ep. Sarah made a comment toward her using the term "tin man", after Cam inquired as to what she meant by that Sarah came off her "high horse" rephrased her comment and Cam simultaneously said almost sarcastically said "thanks for explaining" as she walked away), signs of being emotionally hurt by the other family members "comments" at times, etc. Notice her body language, vocal tones..it's very subtle but iit's there. When ever another family member says anything negative against John behind his back, she almost always defends him..Sarah.."Johns not listening", Cam.."Johns always listening"..Cam.."John wont be seeing Riley anymore"..Sarah.."we'll see" (or something like that) Cam.."snaps back" at her "Johns not stupid!" ..Sarah."I don't like the way he responds to you"...Cam...in a very "cutting" tone of voice.."you got what you wanted" as she "stomps" off. It's also Worthy to note she shows a very human weakness here, that is over confidence, as John did the exact opposite as to what she thought he would. There was a brief encounter with Derick at their ammo stash where she shows fear, on an emotional level (remember she could snap his neck with one quick grasp), and again defending John from his comment "John needs to get his head in the game"

    The scenes at the Mexican jail, I think, not only show her emotional feelings toward john, but a turning point in the way Derick feels about her. The only words out of his mouth were very sensible and logical.."we need to take cover".."we need to get out of here".."were no good to him dead" Cam, on the other hand was almost at a state of total panic as she examined bullet ridden corpses.."Jonh Baum..where is he!".."I got to find John!"...."I can't let anything happen to him!". Derick was watching this like he couldn't believe what he was seeing, also as they walking toward the jail he was "covering her back"..not that she would need it..but still..

    I think she is a very special type of cyborg that is so close to being human that she almost is, more than she even realizes, has the capability of every human emotion and quality, love, hate, happiness, loneliness, pride, a sense of right and wrong..you name it. These things are slowly developing in her and its as if she doesn't know how to deal with these changes. This, I think, was also one of the reasons she was sent back, as the post J-day world seems to be a rather poor place to lean these things. If physical protection was the only reason why not just get another "Arnold" type to look after him?

    I was thinking the EXACT same thing. She is obviously evolving somehow. It was quite obvious in the Mexico episode and the one after that, where she asks about that tortoise, sticks her foot out of the window, or changes radio stations. I wondered why they didn't continue that storyline, because I think it is one of (if not THE) most interesting on the whole show. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure that they will pick it up again in the upcoming episodes. The question is if it is part of her programming (we still don't know how advanced she is) or if it is a glitch on her chip (which I think is more likely). Personally I hope to see her getting human in the end(like she did in the episode where she lost her memories).

    I also can't get rid of the feeling that Cameron might die in the last episode (We know someone does, we know it's shocking, and she could also be brought back if it comes to a 3rd season).

    Edited on 02/28/2009 1:39pm
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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [18]Feb 28, 2009
    • member since: 02/25/09
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    The question is if it is part of her programming (we still don't know how advanced she is) or if it is a glitch on her chip (which I think is more likely). Personally I hope to see her getting human in the end(like she did in the episode where she lost her memories).

    No..I don't think the glitch in Cams chip is why she"s unique..but rather an accident from the Jeep explosion that will prove to be tragic for her at some point. The technology at the time I'm sure is non-existent to repair it as well, meaning she would have to be shut down permanently. But maby not. I cant help to think that the "Weaver" character may at some time come into play on this as that would seem to be the only possible source that her chip might be able to be fully repaired.

    While she (Weaver) is truly a cold blooded killer, we really don't know the truth about her. She seems to have a real concern for her human daughter, but killed the guy in the head without a second glance. It was also clear that that killing was an act of "passion" he was no threat, she just didn't like him..."sorry I piss you off".."the feeling's mutual". At the plant she killed everyone then blew it up..but she did this to protect (Keep it in secret) what ever it is she's trying to do. Could it be that like Cam her main problem is simply a total lack of socialization?..simply not knowing any better? As lovable as Cam is you need to remember that she can be just as cold blooded (execution style murder of the kids in the bowling ally) and we can excuse it on the grounds that she simply dosn't know any better at this point as we are aware of her motives. In her heart(or whatever) she believed she was doing the right thing, protecting her family, and not just an evil cyborg. With Weaver, on the other hand, were not given any background so we really don't know. Also a little more on Cam's human side. In the ep. where she was visiting the library at night it seems to me that she really liked and cared for the guy that worked there, as if she felt a need for companionship. "no it is a big deal, I don't have many friends, actually I don't have any friends." She let him fire her gun..sharing something with him that she thought he might like. Being very concerned about his cancer and wanting him to make an appointment with his doctor. I suppose one could say that it was just to keep on good terms with him for library access, but when he disappeared she had no problem getting past the new person and im sure she was confident that she could. I think she really liked the guy and looked forward to seeing him. John had been treating her rather poorly since Riley showed up, Sarah was and still is openly hostile toward her and Derick..well I need not even talk about him. Who could blame her?

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  • Avatar of KCW1985

    KCW1985

    [19]Feb 28, 2009
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    I just hope they get back to the old style of TSCC soon.

    hakkersszz: THANK YOU!

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  • Avatar of liacmf

    liacmf

    [20]Feb 28, 2009
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    in regards to this episode, some people are wondering why cam would walk around in her underwear. i had thought in the beginning of the episode that the whole clinic sequence might be a dream, but then gave up on that theory when we started seeing scenes just between john and cam. then it occurred to me that we didn't see any other characters outside of the van so now we were being shown only what sarah could see or imagine - back to the theory of the clinic being a dream. so it makes sense that cam would act more out of character in this episode. here she did everything that sarah fears she will do in her absence - create a deeper connection with john, seduce him.
    so i'm attributing all strange behaviors of cam in this ep to sarah's imagination. not that we aren't all hoping that she'll eventually actually do these things, because that would make it so much more interesting... but it's true, she's getting there.
    Edited on 02/28/2009 5:22pm
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