Official Discussion Thread - Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep (spoilers)

  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [41]Mar 4, 2009
    • member since: 02/25/09
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 49
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    DBizTV wrote:

    If you look back at some of the things Jesse said earlier as to why she's here, Cameron's Terminator may have become John's main (only) squeeze in the future. It makes sense. He would not have to protect her, and she could be protecting him at his most "vulnerable" moments. And Cameron has indicated several times, in direct comments, that she does indeed have emotions. As Sahlinrob indicated, they're not toasters, people, not Cameron or her generation anyway.

    Cameron has many private moments of self-satisfaction in Season 1. My favorite was when she terrorized the guy in Heavy Metal just by looking at him while he's driving the truck. Another notable one is in Automatic for the People, when she is counting her pool winnings. In Self-Made Man, she seems to be genuinely trying to figure out how to befriend the librarian, and her actions are those of a friend, but her ... execution (no pun intended) is off. MORE CAMERON!!!

    Also, on Self-Made Man, the librarian asked her if her brother was still seeing "That crazy blond" indicating they had talked about this before, showing a need to have someone just to talk to about things that were bothering her. She also shared the fact that as a result of the "crazy blond" they got broken it to and robed. Divulging this much information you would think be something that she may not approve of being the security "Nazi" she normally is. This indicates that along with having human emotions and feelings she also has the human "weaknesses" that they can bring about. When asked if they got their stuff back she said, with a little smile, " It all worked out" with a flash back of her "executing" the thieves. This brings up another point. Cameron seems to have quite an extensive wardrobe as you hardly ever see her in the same outfit. One that I think she is very proud of and is precious to her. The first words out of her mouth in the bowling ally were "give me back my jacket", and while I don't think she ever had any intention to let them live, it's when the guy got "smart" with her that she pulled her gun and repeated her "request" in a much more "forceful" manor.....she was flat pissed off and wanted her jacket back....very emotional.

    Oh yes..forgot, when they first discovered the break in Camaron went up to her room and came back down anouncing "my leather jackets gone". while they were rousting people they thought might be responsible, Sarah was asking about credit cards, diomonds, cash, IDs etc. the only thing Cam had to say was "and my leather jacket".
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  • Avatar of m00nshadow

    m00nshadow

    [42]Mar 4, 2009
    • member since: 12/06/08
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 226
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    DBizTV wrote:

    If you look back at some of the things Jesse said earlier as to why she's here, Cameron's Terminator may have become John's main (only) squeeze in the future. It makes sense. He would not have to protect her, and she could be protecting him at his most "vulnerable" moments. And Cameron has indicated several times, in direct comments, that she does indeed have emotions. As Sahlinrob indicated, they're not toasters, people, not Cameron or her generation anyway.

    Cameron has many private moments of self-satisfaction in Season 1. My favorite was when she terrorized the guy in Heavy Metal just by looking at him while he's driving the truck. Another notable one is in Automatic for the People, when she is counting her pool winnings. In Self-Made Man, she seems to be genuinely trying to figure out how to befriend the librarian, and her actions are those of a friend, but her ... execution (no pun intended) is off. MORE CAMERON!!!

    Also, on Self-Made Man, the librarian asked her if her brother was still seeing "That crazy blond" indicating they had talked about this before, showing a need to have someone just to talk to about things that were bothering her. She also shared the fact that as a result of the "crazy blond" they got broken it to and robed. Divulging this much information you would think be something that she may not approve of being the security "Nazi" she normally is. This indicates that along with having human emotions and feelings she also has the human "weaknesses" that they can bring about. When asked if they got their stuff back she said, with a little smile, " It all worked out" with a flash back of her "executing" the thieves. This brings up another point. Cameron seems to have quite an extensive wardrobe as you hardly ever see her in the same outfit. One that I think she is very proud of and is precious to her. The first words out of her mouth in the bowling ally were "give me back my jacket", and while I don't think she ever had any intention to let them live, it's when the guy got "smart" with her that she pulled her gun and repeated her "request" in a much more "forceful" manor.....she was flat pissed off and wanted her jacket back....very emotional.

    Oh yes..forgot, when they first discovered the break in Camaron went up to her room and came back down anouncing "my leather jackets gone". while they were rousting people they thought might be responsible, Sarah was asking about credit cards, diomonds, cash, IDs etc. the only thing Cam had to say was "and my leather jacket".

    Those are all excellent points, Sahlinrob! I never thought about the jacket thing that way, but you're right. She's very self-aware about her wardrobe, and about figuring out what is an "effective strategy" for appealing to John. It backfired on her a little in "Mr Ferguson" when she took off her jacket before entering John's room. (And, welcome to the forum! See my first blog entry for some thoughts on the way food is treated on the series, if you're interested.)

    *****

    DBiz: I do agree with you, that Cameron may be, probably is, John's closest ally and, uh ... etc. ... in the future. In "Mr Ferguson" she tells Sarah, "He's always listening." Then she goes upstairs to talk to him, and in that conversation, she says, "I understand that being John Connor can be lonely."

    John: Oh, yeah? How do you understand that?

    Cameron: You and I talk about it a lot.

    John: We do?

    Cameron: We do. ... We will.

    So, yes. Of course, in this same conversation, she says, "Im a machine. I can't be happy." Maybe, but she also told John once that she lies to him about "important things" when her mission parameters make it a priority.

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  • Avatar of DBizTV

    DBizTV

    [44]Mar 4, 2009
    • member since: 02/14/07
    • level: 43
    • rank: K.I.T.T
    • posts: 382
    m00nshadow wrote:
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    DBizTV wrote:

    If you look back at some of the things Jesse said earlier as to why she's here, Cameron's Terminator may have become John's main (only) squeeze in the future. It makes sense. He would not have to protect her, and she could be protecting him at his most "vulnerable" moments. And Cameron has indicated several times, in direct comments, that she does indeed have emotions. As Sahlinrob indicated, they're not toasters, people, not Cameron or her generation anyway.

    Cameron has many private moments of self-satisfaction in Season 1. My favorite was when she terrorized the guy in Heavy Metal just by looking at him while he's driving the truck. Another notable one is in Automatic for the People, when she is counting her pool winnings. In Self-Made Man, she seems to be genuinely trying to figure out how to befriend the librarian, and her actions are those of a friend, but her ... execution (no pun intended) is off. MORE CAMERON!!!

    Also, on Self-Made Man, the librarian asked her if her brother was still seeing "That crazy blond" indicating they had talked about this before, showing a need to have someone just to talk to about things that were bothering her. She also shared the fact that as a result of the "crazy blond" they got broken it to and robed. Divulging this much information you would think be something that she may not approve of being the security "Nazi" she normally is. This indicates that along with having human emotions and feelings she also has the human "weaknesses" that they can bring about. When asked if they got their stuff back she said, with a little smile, " It all worked out" with a flash back of her "executing" the thieves. This brings up another point. Cameron seems to have quite an extensive wardrobe as you hardly ever see her in the same outfit. One that I think she is very proud of and is precious to her. The first words out of her mouth in the bowling ally were "give me back my jacket", and while I don't think she ever had any intention to let them live, it's when the guy got "smart" with her that she pulled her gun and repeated her "request" in a much more "forceful" manor.....she was flat pissed off and wanted her jacket back....very emotional.

    Oh yes..forgot, when they first discovered the break in Camaron went up to her room and came back down anouncing "my leather jackets gone". while they were rousting people they thought might be responsible, Sarah was asking about credit cards, diomonds, cash, IDs etc. the only thing Cam had to say was "and my leather jacket".

    Those are all excellent points, Sahlinrob! I never thought about the jacket thing that way, but you're right. She's very self-aware about her wardrobe, and about figuring out what is an "effective strategy" for appealing to John. It backfired on her a little in "Mr Ferguson" when she took off her jacket before entering John's room. (And, welcome to the forum! See my first blog entry for some thoughts on the way food is treated on the series, if you're interested.)

    *****

    DBiz: I do agree with you, that Cameron may be, probably is, John's closest ally and, uh ... etc. ... in the future. In "Mr Ferguson" she tells Sarah, "He's always listening." Then she goes upstairs to talk to him, and in that conversation, she says, "I understand that being John Connor can be lonely."

    John: Oh, yeah? How do you understand that?

    Cameron: You and I talk about it a lot.

    John: We do?

    Cameron: We do. ... We will.

    So, yes. Of course, in this same conversation, she says, "Im a machine. I can't be happy." Maybe, but she also told John once that she lies to him about "important things" when her mission parameters make it a priority.

    Well, I can't resist doing this, but I won't do it again. I don't want to "break TV.com" like shatterdaymorn did . There has to be a limit to how many boxes can be squeezed into a reply, doesn't there? It always amazes me in sci fi how so many folks can't relate to the fact that machines, and even creatures, think and feel. In Aliens, Pvt. Hudson can't grasp that the alien creatures think and plan because "they're animals". In Battlestar Galactica, many of the humans call the Cylons "toasters" and refuse to acknowledge the deep and very real "feelings" of the advanced models. In the Terminator universe, who's to say what "feelings" would develop in advanced "flesh and blood" machines from a close, intimate, working relationship with emotionally charged human beings? And, although emotions are more primitive (i.e., they developed first), the very existence of language changes them, evolves them, extends them and carries them. Once you know the definition of an insult or a threat, you develop a response, a response which becomes autonomic - and many, if not most, of our autonomic responses are perceived, at the conscious level, as emotional responses - it's "hard wired" in the chemistry. A "cave dweller" wouldn't respond to a "Dear John/Dear Jane" letter, much less an email (it would probably produce only wonderment or confusion), but you would. The language alone would produce a flood of autonomic responses which could, in fact, be so strong as to end your life - all because of the power of language, and its attendant "emotions". So, "it" comes with intelligence, it comes with language - the "it" being the blessing and the curse of emotion. When Cameron was riding with John one day, she held her arm out of the vehicles window, saying she wanted to "feel" the breeze. They talked about it and two things became clear : John didn't understand yet that Cameron wasn't a "toaster"; and Cameron had "feelings" that she couldn't or wouldn't completely acknowledge yet. And why is it that Jesse is so passionate about, and so aggravated by, the future "relationship" between John and Cameron? Really, what threat could that possibly pose to her? Why does she react so emotionally, so jealously, almost like a jilted lover would? We can only hope that the series lasts long enough to find out more about all of this. But, and keep in mind that it's happened more than once, Cameron doesn't parade around in front of John almost naked for no reason. She's more motivated than that - and poor John is noticing. The last time, even if it was perhaps only Sarah's dream, his tongue almost fell out. That kind of mutual attraction only gets stronger with time, and if that's not emotional, we need a new word for it. So, remember to be nice to your "toaster", especially when it becomes advanced enough to talk to you and learn how not to burn your toast. You wouldn't want to hurt anyone's "feelings", would you? Especially if you like your toast unburnt.
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  • Avatar of m00nshadow

    m00nshadow

    [45]Mar 4, 2009
    • member since: 12/06/08
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 226
    The scene in the car you are thinking of comes at the beginning of "Alison from Palmdale", just before he drops her off at the store and she has her breakdown. Let's hope we find out more about Jesse this week. I want to find out if my theory that she was in cahoots with the Aussie partner of Sarkissian is true....
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  • Avatar of rayray_25

    rayray_25

    [46]Mar 4, 2009
    • member since: 11/01/03
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 94
    DBizTV wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    DBizTV wrote:

    If you look back at some of the things Jesse said earlier as to why she's here, Cameron's Terminator may have become John's main (only) squeeze in the future. It makes sense. He would not have to protect her, and she could be protecting him at his most "vulnerable" moments. And Cameron has indicated several times, in direct comments, that she does indeed have emotions. As Sahlinrob indicated, they're not toasters, people, not Cameron or her generation anyway.

    Cameron has many private moments of self-satisfaction in Season 1. My favorite was when she terrorized the guy in Heavy Metal just by looking at him while he's driving the truck. Another notable one is in Automatic for the People, when she is counting her pool winnings. In Self-Made Man, she seems to be genuinely trying to figure out how to befriend the librarian, and her actions are those of a friend, but her ... execution (no pun intended) is off. MORE CAMERON!!!

    Also, on Self-Made Man, the librarian asked her if her brother was still seeing "That crazy blond" indicating they had talked about this before, showing a need to have someone just to talk to about things that were bothering her. She also shared the fact that as a result of the "crazy blond" they got broken it to and robed. Divulging this much information you would think be something that she may not approve of being the security "Nazi" she normally is. This indicates that along with having human emotions and feelings she also has the human "weaknesses" that they can bring about. When asked if they got their stuff back she said, with a little smile, " It all worked out" with a flash back of her "executing" the thieves. This brings up another point. Cameron seems to have quite an extensive wardrobe as you hardly ever see her in the same outfit. One that I think she is very proud of and is precious to her. The first words out of her mouth in the bowling ally were "give me back my jacket", and while I don't think she ever had any intention to let them live, it's when the guy got "smart" with her that she pulled her gun and repeated her "request" in a much more "forceful" manor.....she was flat pissed off and wanted her jacket back....very emotional.

    Oh yes..forgot, when they first discovered the break in Camaron went up to her room and came back down anouncing "my leather jackets gone". while they were rousting people they thought might be responsible, Sarah was asking about credit cards, diomonds, cash, IDs etc. the only thing Cam had to say was "and my leather jacket".

    Those are all excellent points, Sahlinrob! I never thought about the jacket thing that way, but you're right. She's very self-aware about her wardrobe, and about figuring out what is an "effective strategy" for appealing to John. It backfired on her a little in "Mr Ferguson" when she took off her jacket before entering John's room. (And, welcome to the forum! See my first blog entry for some thoughts on the way food is treated on the series, if you're interested.)

    *****

    DBiz: I do agree with you, that Cameron may be, probably is, John's closest ally and, uh ... etc. ... in the future. In "Mr Ferguson" she tells Sarah, "He's always listening." Then she goes upstairs to talk to him, and in that conversation, she says, "I understand that being John Connor can be lonely."

    John: Oh, yeah? How do you understand that?

    Cameron: You and I talk about it a lot.

    John: We do?

    Cameron: We do. ... We will.

    So, yes. Of course, in this same conversation, she says, "Im a machine. I can't be happy." Maybe, but she also told John once that she lies to him about "important things" when her mission parameters make it a priority.

    Well, I can't resist doing this, but I won't do it again. I don't want to "break TV.com" like shatterdaymorn did . There has to be a limit to how many boxes can be squeezed into a reply, doesn't there? It always amazes me in sci fi how so many folks can't relate to the fact that machines, and even creatures, think and feel. In Aliens, Pvt. Hudson can't grasp that the alien creatures think and plan because "they're animals". In Battlestar Galactica, many of the humans call the Cylons "toasters" and refuse to acknowledge the deep and very real "feelings" of the advanced models. In the Terminator universe, who's to say what "feelings" would develop in advanced "flesh and blood" machines from a close, intimate, working relationship with emotionally charged human beings? And, although emotions are more primitive (i.e., they developed first), the very existence of language changes them, evolves them, extends them and carries them. Once you know the definition of an insult or a threat, you develop a response, a response which becomes autonomic - and many, if not most, of our autonomic responses are perceived, at the conscious level, as emotional responses - it's "hard wired" in the chemistry. A "cave dweller" wouldn't respond to a "Dear John/Dear Jane" letter, much less an email (it would probably produce only wonderment or confusion), but you would. The language alone would produce a flood of autonomic responses which could, in fact, be so strong as to end your life - all because of the power of language, and its attendant "emotions". So, "it" comes with intelligence, it comes with language - the "it" being the blessing and the curse of emotion. When Cameron was riding with John one day, she held her arm out of the vehicles window, saying she wanted to "feel" the breeze. They talked about it and two things became clear : John didn't understand yet that Cameron wasn't a "toaster"; and Cameron had "feelings" that she couldn't or wouldn't completely acknowledge yet. And why is it that Jesse is so passionate about, and so aggravated by, the future "relationship" between John and Cameron? Really, what threat could that possibly pose to her? Why does she react so emotionally, so jealously, almost like a jilted lover would? We can only hope that the series lasts long enough to find out more about all of this. But, and keep in mind that it's happened more than once, Cameron doesn't parade around in front of John almost naked for no reason. She's more motivated than that - and poor John is noticing. The last time, even if it was perhaps only Sarah's dream, his tongue almost fell out. That kind of mutual attraction only gets stronger with time, and if that's not emotional, we need a new word for it. So, remember to be nice to your "toaster", especially when it becomes advanced enough to talk to you and learn how not to burn your toast. You wouldn't want to hurt anyone's "feelings", would you? Especially if you like your toast unburnt.

    Okay, maybe you're right, maybe not. Here's an alternate theory, which I will call "The Data Solution", or TDS for short.

    Remember Data from Star Trek: TNG? While he absolutely DID NOT have any real human emotions (except for the episode with the emotion chip), he once said something to Picard about how his neural pathways adjusted to all of his colleagues aboard the Enterprise. So one of the other characters had gone missing, and as Data explained it, certain pathways which had adjusted to recognize and respond to said crew member were not erased or overwritten. So in a sense, he "missed" that person.

    I think a very logical explanation for some of Cameron's behavior is that as a Terminator (Terminatrix? Terministress?) she WILL fulfill her mission. Part of completing her mission requires her to deal with unstable, unpredictable humans. Therefore, she basically has a file in her programming that she accesses in order to elicit certain responses. But since each human is different, she has to respond differently to each of her "teammates". John is a teenage boy who, despite his intelligence and knowledge of what he must do in order for mankind to survive, is dealing with raging male hormones. So what is one way to deal with him? She is certainly aware that her body is very appealing to the male of the species, so throw in a few smiles, a little near nudity and voila! The appearance of sexual tension between the two. While there is certainly a very real set of feelings on John's part, that doesn't necessarily dictate that Cameron "feels" anything.

    Just a theory, though. I could be wrong.

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  • Avatar of DBizTV

    DBizTV

    [47]Mar 4, 2009
    • member since: 02/14/07
    • level: 43
    • rank: K.I.T.T
    • posts: 382
    rayray_25 wrote:
    DBizTV wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    Sahlinrob wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    DBizTV wrote:

    If you look back at some of the things Jesse said earlier as to why she's here, Cameron's Terminator may have become John's main (only) squeeze in the future. It makes sense. He would not have to protect her, and she could be protecting him at his most "vulnerable" moments. And Cameron has indicated several times, in direct comments, that she does indeed have emotions. As Sahlinrob indicated, they're not toasters, people, not Cameron or her generation anyway.

    Cameron has many private moments of self-satisfaction in Season 1. My favorite was when she terrorized the guy in Heavy Metal just by looking at him while he's driving the truck. Another notable one is in Automatic for the People, when she is counting her pool winnings. In Self-Made Man, she seems to be genuinely trying to figure out how to befriend the librarian, and her actions are those of a friend, but her ... execution (no pun intended) is off. MORE CAMERON!!!

    Also, on Self-Made Man, the librarian asked her if her brother was still seeing "That crazy blond" indicating they had talked about this before, showing a need to have someone just to talk to about things that were bothering her. She also shared the fact that as a result of the "crazy blond" they got broken it to and robed. Divulging this much information you would think be something that she may not approve of being the security "Nazi" she normally is. This indicates that along with having human emotions and feelings she also has the human "weaknesses" that they can bring about. When asked if they got their stuff back she said, with a little smile, " It all worked out" with a flash back of her "executing" the thieves. This brings up another point. Cameron seems to have quite an extensive wardrobe as you hardly ever see her in the same outfit. One that I think she is very proud of and is precious to her. The first words out of her mouth in the bowling ally were "give me back my jacket", and while I don't think she ever had any intention to let them live, it's when the guy got "smart" with her that she pulled her gun and repeated her "request" in a much more "forceful" manor.....she was flat pissed off and wanted her jacket back....very emotional.

    Oh yes..forgot, when they first discovered the break in Camaron went up to her room and came back down anouncing "my leather jackets gone". while they were rousting people they thought might be responsible, Sarah was asking about credit cards, diomonds, cash, IDs etc. the only thing Cam had to say was "and my leather jacket".

    Those are all excellent points, Sahlinrob! I never thought about the jacket thing that way, but you're right. She's very self-aware about her wardrobe, and about figuring out what is an "effective strategy" for appealing to John. It backfired on her a little in "Mr Ferguson" when she took off her jacket before entering John's room. (And, welcome to the forum! See my first blog entry for some thoughts on the way food is treated on the series, if you're interested.)

    *****

    DBiz: I do agree with you, that Cameron may be, probably is, John's closest ally and, uh ... etc. ... in the future. In "Mr Ferguson" she tells Sarah, "He's always listening." Then she goes upstairs to talk to him, and in that conversation, she says, "I understand that being John Connor can be lonely."

    John: Oh, yeah? How do you understand that?

    Cameron: You and I talk about it a lot.

    John: We do?

    Cameron: We do. ... We will.

    So, yes. Of course, in this same conversation, she says, "Im a machine. I can't be happy." Maybe, but she also told John once that she lies to him about "important things" when her mission parameters make it a priority.

    Well, I can't resist doing this, but I won't do it again. I don't want to "break TV.com" like shatterdaymorn did . There has to be a limit to how many boxes can be squeezed into a reply, doesn't there? It always amazes me in sci fi how so many folks can't relate to the fact that machines, and even creatures, think and feel. In Aliens, Pvt. Hudson can't grasp that the alien creatures think and plan because "they're animals". In Battlestar Galactica, many of the humans call the Cylons "toasters" and refuse to acknowledge the deep and very real "feelings" of the advanced models. In the Terminator universe, who's to say what "feelings" would develop in advanced "flesh and blood" machines from a close, intimate, working relationship with emotionally charged human beings? And, although emotions are more primitive (i.e., they developed first), the very existence of language changes them, evolves them, extends them and carries them. Once you know the definition of an insult or a threat, you develop a response, a response which becomes autonomic - and many, if not most, of our autonomic responses are perceived, at the conscious level, as emotional responses - it's "hard wired" in the chemistry. A "cave dweller" wouldn't respond to a "Dear John/Dear Jane" letter, much less an email (it would probably produce only wonderment or confusion), but you would. The language alone would produce a flood of autonomic responses which could, in fact, be so strong as to end your life - all because of the power of language, and its attendant "emotions". So, "it" comes with intelligence, it comes with language - the "it" being the blessing and the curse of emotion. When Cameron was riding with John one day, she held her arm out of the vehicles window, saying she wanted to "feel" the breeze. They talked about it and two things became clear : John didn't understand yet that Cameron wasn't a "toaster"; and Cameron had "feelings" that she couldn't or wouldn't completely acknowledge yet. And why is it that Jesse is so passionate about, and so aggravated by, the future "relationship" between John and Cameron? Really, what threat could that possibly pose to her? Why does she react so emotionally, so jealously, almost like a jilted lover would? We can only hope that the series lasts long enough to find out more about all of this. But, and keep in mind that it's happened more than once, Cameron doesn't parade around in front of John almost naked for no reason. She's more motivated than that - and poor John is noticing. The last time, even if it was perhaps only Sarah's dream, his tongue almost fell out. That kind of mutual attraction only gets stronger with time, and if that's not emotional, we need a new word for it. So, remember to be nice to your "toaster", especially when it becomes advanced enough to talk to you and learn how not to burn your toast. You wouldn't want to hurt anyone's "feelings", would you? Especially if you like your toast unburnt.

    Okay, maybe you're right, maybe not. Here's an alternate theory, which I will call "The Data Solution", or TDS for short.

    Remember Data from Star Trek: TNG? While he absolutely DID NOT have any real human emotions (except for the episode with the emotion chip), he once said something to Picard about how his neural pathways adjusted to all of his colleagues aboard the Enterprise. So one of the other characters had gone missing, and as Data explained it, certain pathways which had adjusted to recognize and respond to said crew member were not erased or overwritten. So in a sense, he "missed" that person.

    I think a very logical explanation for some of Cameron's behavior is that as a Terminator (Terminatrix? Terministress?) she WILL fulfill her mission. Part of completing her mission requires her to deal with unstable, unpredictable humans. Therefore, she basically has a file in her programming that she accesses in order to elicit certain responses. But since each human is different, she has to respond differently to each of her "teammates". John is a teenage boy who, despite his intelligence and knowledge of what he must do in order for mankind to survive, is dealing with raging male hormones. So what is one way to deal with him? She is certainly aware that her body is very appealing to the male of the species, so throw in a few smiles, a little near nudity and voila! The appearance of sexual tension between the two. While there is certainly a very real set of feelings on John's part, that doesn't necessarily dictate that Cameron "feels" anything.

    Just a theory, though. I could be wrong.

    You make a valid point with your theory, rayray25. That's the beauty of sci fi, there's room for everybody. Two Data Points occurred to me while reading your peace:

    1) After he had sex with Denise Crosby's character, Lieutenant Tasha Yar, his memory of her and his actions (keeping her image, etc.) were very human and more personal than even his relationship with the Captain.

    2) When the Borg Queen gave him skin which reacted to being blown on (ala Cameron and the breeze), he was overcome with "feeling" and almost forgot who he was and betrayed his "friends".

    Cameron has feeling skin and, for the purposes of my proffered explanation, an intimate relationship with John in the near future (her present past).

    Again, it depends what you define as emotion. If you electrically stimulate the human brain, you can produce every emotional state we know of; or, conversely, shut down all emotional reaction completely. You can literally turn a human into Pinocchio or an automaton. If we are creatures of our brains perceptions based on electrical signals, how are our "emotions" any more "human" than a machine's? See The Matrix for more on the electrical nature of perceived reality in a sci fi setting. Or, if emotions are chemically based, who's to say advanced machines couldn't mimic the same chemistry - and if the chemistry is the same, are the emotional states significantly different? I wouldn't bet the house on it.

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  • Avatar of m00nshadow

    m00nshadow

    [48]Mar 5, 2009
    • member since: 12/06/08
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 226

    About Data, also recall the episode where he was on "trial", or his "humanity" was? Anyway, if he lost, they were going to let some creep dismantle him to see how he worked, right? It's been so long.... Anyway, the most powerful piece of evidence Picard used, as I recall it, was a little hologram of Lt. Yar that Data kept.

    I was rewatching Desert Cantos yesterday, and I noticed something. It is Cameron who figures out that the family of the employee who is still alive wasn't grieving. Also in that episode, she figures out what the guy who has the hots for Zoey has not done:

    Cameron: Zoey's not in love with you. She doesn't love you the way you love her.

    In plot terms, this motivates a tense moment and gets John into the front of the car, but in terms of Cameron, it shows you what a very good student of human emotions she has been. Remember how intently she studied the moves of Vic, the "married" T8 in season one? I think that was the first time she said, "That was an effective strategy" referring to his touching his wife's face.

    Isn't the real question here whether Cameron can love John? She certainly was convincing in the season 2 opener. In any case, one problem I see with a sexual relationship is that Cameron can never let her guard down, so how satisfying would that be for John, knowing that? She could pretend to, but he'd always know it was an act. John doesn't strike me as the type who would just use her and not feel it was creepy.

    DBiz's point about converting people to automatons lends a special significance to the allusion to "Nurse Ratched" in this episode, doesn't it?

    Edited on 03/05/2009 10:46am
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  • Avatar of imjessietr30

    imjessietr30

    [49]Mar 7, 2009
    • member since: 11/04/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 58

    BAGTbird wrote:
    henryjb99 wrote:
    Did anyone else notice that when Sarah is driving in the beginning of the episode, all cars are on the left side of the road?
    Isn't that one of the things they say about dreams (at least in TV/movies)? That directions are reversed. Or is it just text? You can't read because that part of your brain isn't active. Maybe I'm not remembering this the right way. I don't know if it has basis in reality or is just some made-up psychobabble that sounds good on screen.

    This is something I've heard about (usually TV shows). I've had trouble reading in dreams in the past, but I got better. It is a skill one can work on.

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  • Avatar of JimmeDK

    JimmeDK

    [50]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 02/13/09
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 30
    Well, that was certainly a wierd episode. I don't think it did anything for the show though.
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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [51]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 02/19/09
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 86
    Everyone who didn't get this whole Sarah arc should read this:

    http://roxybisquaint.livejournal.com/54214.html

    It's a bit long, but also quite funny.
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