Official Discussion Thread - To the Lighthouse (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of heyvid21

    heyvid21

    [21]Mar 29, 2009
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    My guess is that the skynet system has been around for a LONG time. Probably since T2 when they thought they stopped it. They did stop it from being completed, but the programming was probably already written before they nuked the facility. All this time the skynet system from cyberdine has been looking for the links the complete its programming, and my guess is that it just got it from John Henry. Remember when they guy on the phone said he got the scematics from "his brother"? My guess is that it wasn't john henry on the phone, but the skynet system.

    I also think John Henry is NOT the part that starts skynet, but the part starts programming for the human resistance. I think he is the father of the "good" terminators.

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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [22]Mar 29, 2009
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    rob2609marlin wrote:
    BiniBeans wrote:
    Well, I liked Sarah in this episode. And how harsh it must have een for her to devote her whole life to John's survival, and then leading the bad guys directly to him herself after just telling him he couldn't trust Cameron and Derek anymore because they made mistakes.

    What does it mean that John Henry experienced death? Will it lead him to be more careful and respectful of human life now or will it sharpen his survival instinct and make him more estructive to ensure his (and the machines') survival?

    If the water guys were his brother's mercs, does that mean the whole factory was his doing as well and Weaver only got involved and got rid of them after she learned about it from John Henry?

    Interesting developments anyway. And Reese thanking Cameron? Never thought to see it happen.


    I think that you were mistaken. Reese didn't thank her. She just said your welcome. But I do have to say that this is by far the best ep. of the season! I really thought that the series was taking a wrong turn with the whole sarah/sleep issues and all of the other wierd plot lines. I'm SO glad that it is back on track and I pray that we get a season 3!


    Yeah, he did. Right before the tyre blew.
    Dereck: "You did the right thing. By telling me. Thank you."
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  • Avatar of BoogerHeadRat

    BoogerHeadRat

    [23]Mar 29, 2009
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    hakkersszz wrote:
    sNaKeBiTe688 wrote:
    2. Cameron 'prepared' for being electricuted. As we learned from John Henry, the machines are able to process huge amouts of data in nanoseconds. After the water hit her, she must have realized that this is going to happen. So she put herself in stanby/hibernation mode (exaclty the same as on a computer) in order to reboot faster. We saw that in 'Heavy Metal'. Reboot-time from standby is 15 seconds. So that would come a lot closer. Or maybe the writers just screwed up =)
    No, that's it. That must be it! It makes total sense. She knew in advance what was going to happen because of the water, so she could indeed put herself in standby in order to reboot faster.

    You Guys blow me away! No, really. My hats off to you- counting things down to the frakken second. FOX should hire you guys as part of their own Baker Street Irregulars for continuity.

    Having grown up in the age of the original Star Trek I have always been very forgiving of script writers having to put up with the exigencies of writing for primetime series: "Hey, wasn't that petty officer a commodore in and earlier episode?" "Uh oh, the transporter's down again!"

    What you came up with on the Cameron reboot thing really makes sense, though. Thank you for bringing this series one step closer to reality for me. Frankly, I'm amazed at how deeply the denizens of these forums probe the minutiae of the content of this series. It kinda reminds me of Lee, the old Chinese cook in Steinbeck's East of Eden in how he studied Hebrew for years to just find the true meaning of one word in Cain's story in Genesis!

    I think with the ever widening shockwave from the Information Technology explosion we will see more and more comprehensive treatment of primetime entertainment. With cyber entities like TV.com offering a place for fans to discuss plots and characters in detail we might all begin to experience a quantum leap in the what television means to us.

    Or, perhaps, in the same way as humankind creates super-intelligent machines that will prove to be their downfall in TSCC these forums will create super-sophisticated fans that will put up with nothing less than perfection in the plots of Science Fiction series!

    Watch out FOXNet!

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  • Avatar of sdbvqaetn

    sdbvqaetn

    [24]Mar 29, 2009
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    Did anyone noticed the three dots on the computer when John Henry was taken over by skynet.

    Edit: Actually the three dots are on the computer the entire time. Are these the dots Sarah's looking for ??

    Edited on 03/29/2009 8:13am
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  • Avatar of Enigma776

    Enigma776

    [25]Mar 29, 2009
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    I am suprised no one else has mentioned the 3 red dots yet, but does this not show that the future soldier was from another alternate timeline where the techcom soldiers have there own AI (John Henery) which would explain the 3 red dots on the wall, maybe the connors need to make contact with the AI?

    If this is the case then the T1001 is on a mission of peace or RECON/staging to make sure the TechCom forces are a match for the machines and SkyNet. The worm is obviously the real SkyNet, although it's working in the same way the T3 SkyNet did by infecting computers across the internet.

    The war is ineviable wether it's in 2029 or in the present it will continue for all time.

    Edited on 03/29/2009 9:17am
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  • Avatar of Ranlier

    Ranlier

    [26]Mar 29, 2009
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    New Theory:

    The prevalent assumtion is that Catherine Weaver killed her own subordinates because they leaked out information. But what if the leak was actually Catherine Weaver's enemies revealing their location?

    IF Weaver is a "good" terminator, than the destruction of Skynet (and all who assist it) would be a priority. Perhaps she is trying to stop them, and John Henry is being created to take the fight to Cyberspace? A core principle of Terminator 3 is that Skynet was too prevalent to be stopped by humans- Ergo, an anti-skynet must be developed, and Weaver was sent because she could both develop John Henry AND lay waste to Skynet's offline support (humans).

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  • Avatar of m00nshadow

    m00nshadow

    [27]Mar 29, 2009
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    Ranlier wrote:

    New Theory:

    The prevalent assumtion is that Catherine Weaver killed her own subordinates because they leaked out information. But what if the leak was actually Catherine Weaver's enemies revealing their location?

    IF Weaver is a "good" terminator, than the destruction of Skynet (and all who assist it) would be a priority. Perhaps she is trying to stop them, and John Henry is being created to take the fight to Cyberspace? A core principle of Terminator 3 is that Skynet was too prevalent to be stopped by humans- Ergo, an anti-skynet must be developed, and Weaver was sent because she could both develop John Henry AND lay waste to Skynet's offline support (humans).

    I'm not sure if she's "good" or what her objective is. But I did rethink whether the factory was hers or her competitors. After all, when John Henry played that transmission to her, she responded, "That WAS a mistake." The hasty evacuation they were attempting may have been in anticipation of that very outcome.

    I was sure, when I saw the scene where Cameron was apparently knocked out by electricity, that she was faking it to get information. Surely she's taken steps to prevent what happened before, and is now impervious to what John did to her in the season premier. She merely waited until the last moment to take the guy out, to find out what he knew.

    Overall, this was an excellent episode, and I especially love the new relationship between the disgraced Derek and vindicated Cameron.

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  • Avatar of CjTl2005

    CjTl2005

    [28]Mar 29, 2009
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    One character I'm curious of is the guy who flew the drone at the end of the funeral episode. That was such a cool ending. I'm sure we'll see him again, but I'd like to know his motives -- other than survival.
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  • Avatar of Enigma776

    Enigma776

    [29]Mar 29, 2009
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    I have just thought of something from a previous episode which links with this one, Fisher from "complications" Installed a roving backdoor into military/industrial computer systems. Now this guy Fisher is known to have worked for SkyNet in the future, so is he connected to this new AI and group of people who are making the drones?
    Edited on 03/29/2009 7:19pm
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  • Avatar of BoogerHeadRat

    BoogerHeadRat

    [30]Mar 30, 2009
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    m00nshadow wrote:
    Ranlier wrote:

    New Theory:

    The prevalent assumtion is that Catherine Weaver killed her own subordinates because they leaked out information. But what if the leak was actually Catherine Weaver's enemies revealing their location?

    IF Weaver is a "good" terminator, than the destruction of Skynet (and all who assist it) would be a priority. Perhaps she is trying to stop them, and John Henry is being created to take the fight to Cyberspace? A core principle of Terminator 3 is that Skynet was too prevalent to be stopped by humans- Ergo, an anti-skynet must be developed, and Weaver was sent because she could both develop John Henry AND lay waste to Skynet's offline support (humans).

    I'm not sure if she's "good" or what her objective is. But I did rethink whether the factory was hers or her competitors. After all, when John Henry played that transmission to her, she responded, "That WAS a mistake." The hasty evacuation they were attempting may have been in anticipation of that very outcome.

    I was sure, when I saw the scene where Cameron was apparently knocked out by electricity, that she was faking it to get information. Surely she's taken steps to prevent what happened before, and is now impervious to what John did to her in the season premier. She merely waited until the last moment to take the guy out, to find out what he knew.

    Overall, this was an excellent episode, and I especially love the new relationship between the disgraced Derek and vindicated Cameron.

    I, too, was wondering if Weaver was just handling a security breach in her own organization during the slaughter and demolition scene in episode 14. It seemed a trifle extreme but, as we all know, Terminators lack finesse. Now that there is evidence of another agency based around the Cyberdyne company it seems that she might have been wiping out the competition instead.

    Perhaps there is a schism in the Cyborg leadership which the future John Connor was trying to exploit by meeting with the emissary picked up by Jesse and the sub. Maybe the more advanced T-1000 liquid metal terminators feel much superior to the old nut-and-bolts T-800 variety and started a counter-revolution. The T-1000 cabal might have sent Weaver back into time to circumvent the old Cyberdyne Systems that created SkyNet and replace it with one more conducive to their own political will, hence the creation of John Henry.

    Doesn't anyone think it strange that Weaver seems to have no interest in tracking down Sarah and John even though her dealings with Ellison would prove that they are reasonably easy to find? As we know from the episode with Martin Bedell at the academy all terminators sent into the past have the young John Connor as a primary target and go into "Mission Priority Override" mode. Why not Weaver unless she, Sarah and John are all, for the moment at least, working towards the same ends.

    Me thinks much could come to light in the upcoming Terminator movie.

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  • Avatar of Enigma776

    Enigma776

    [31]Mar 30, 2009
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    I found this from a credible site which has gone further into the Terminator mythology.

    "A molecular matrix brain allowed the T1000 to carry the same data, programs, and detailed files that the T800 series could, as well as actually be able to learn. The T1000 also differed from the T800 in that it had only one mode; autonomous. When SKYNET created the T1000, it was desperate for victory, but it also realized that it was, quite possibly, creating the one weapon that might turn against its own creator. A weapon that SKYNET didn't know if it could defend itself against. The nature and disposition of the T1000 was hard to calculate and SKYNET took great pains into programming the unit with a myriad of fail-safes to keep it from turning on the creator. Still, SKYNET was unsure about the wisdom of creating such a powerful unit with total autonomy and free will."

    "The T1000 had every right to be an elitist, after all, even it realized that in all probability, the only machine more complex than it was SKYNET and it was a close race even then."

    -Taken from http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/t1000techdata.html

    Edited on 03/30/2009 6:03am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of jimfrick

    jimfrick

    [32]Mar 30, 2009
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    After having seen this episode, I no longer think Catherine Weaver is one of the "bad guys" I think she might be the liquid metal terminator that John Connor sent Jessie in the submarine to retrieve in the future. I think John has sent Catherine back to the past to work on a rival (John Henry) for the "brother" AI that Cyberdyne is apparently still working on. If you think about it, her character up until now, while ruthless, is somewhat ambiguous in terms of good vs. evil. You just don't know what to think of her. But because she is one of the "Bad" liquid metal terminators, everyone just presumes she is the bad guy. But, if this is so, WHY ON EARTH would she have Ellison there trying to teach the thing ETHICS??? It will be interesting to see how this all comes together....
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    imjessietr30

    [33]Mar 30, 2009
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    I'm still not entirely convinced the sub Liquid was Weaver. However, I'm pretty sure now she destroyed a Cyberdyne factory, not her own. Weaver doesn't seem too bent on creating terminators. She only seems interested in kick-ass AI. You would think, since she was behind Ellison, that she could spare some reaction when Sarah Connor's name was mentioned. She doesn't seem to care at all. Also, I love how upset she is that Cyberdyne is still an option (her expressions are very subtle, while her tone of voice is a little clearer). She was very terse to that geek about "no one's ever created an AI this sophisticated" or something. Maybe she had hoped that destroying Cyberdyne's factory would slow them down. Obviously, if their AI is cool enough to hack into John Henry (am I the only one who'd think it would be awesome to have him as a friend?), then she hasn't done as much damage as she presumed.

    I'm convinced that Weaver is either the "good" Terminator, or at least one not really bent on the usual Terminator schtick. Like I said, she seems to be more interested in AI than militaristic killing machines.
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    Thee_Dragon

    [34]Mar 31, 2009
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    Another utterly fantastic episode. Honestly thoe show's been on a role lately, and I can't wait for this Friday's episode. It really is a shame that a show this good will (probably) get canceled.

    Anyways it is looking like Weaver isn't with Skynet after all. I'm still reluctant to say she's good though. It seems to me, and I'm not too sure about my memory here, that Weaver seemed to be getting the best of the Connors with the whole messages on the wall plot line. Honestly at this point I still think it could go either way and I'm excited to see the results.
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    super_ps2player

    [35]Mar 31, 2009
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    .....its gonna be john henry vs his "brother" in an epic cyberspace clash, and we all know whos gonna win...........it was interesting when john henry was like"yes, we can change the rules" or something like that..........makes me wonder if john henry really is skynet.....
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    danharr

    [36]Mar 31, 2009
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    Great episode the action, drama, and Charlies exit all well done. I'm hoping Cameron has some protection against the electrocution thing now rubber sole shoes or something come on now. So cool how Sara's lump turned out to be a transmitter but that scene made us all take pause. Thought old Sara was going to take time out for a toss but I guess not with John in the house lol.
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  • Avatar of sittolytic

    sittolytic

    [37]Apr 1, 2009
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    danharr wrote:
    Great episode the action, drama, and Charlies exit all well done. I'm hoping Cameron has some protection against the electrocution thing now rubber sole shoes or something come on now. So cool how Sara's lump turned out to be a transmitter but that scene made us all take pause. Thought old Sara was going to take time out for a toss but I guess not with John in the house lol.

    Well, I think even while wearing rubber sole shoes an electric current would still travel throughout her body and affect her circuitry, right? In any case, if they managed to build walking, talking, liquid-turning, shapeshifting automatons in the future then I'm sure they must have figured out how to invent some form of shock protection, right?

    The transmitter scene was good. The episode really flew off the handle when that happened. The writers really have a talent for quality pacing--but I really do hope they kick it into high gear with the last few episodes of the season, if not to get higher viewer numbers and get the show renewed for a new season then at least to give us some form of closure incase the show is canceled.

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  • Avatar of m00nshadow

    m00nshadow

    [38]Apr 1, 2009
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    BoogerHeadRat wrote:
    m00nshadow wrote:
    Ranlier wrote:

    New Theory:

    The prevalent assumtion is that Catherine Weaver killed her own subordinates because they leaked out information. But what if the leak was actually Catherine Weaver's enemies revealing their location?

    IF Weaver is a "good" terminator, than the destruction of Skynet (and all who assist it) would be a priority. Perhaps she is trying to stop them, and John Henry is being created to take the fight to Cyberspace? A core principle of Terminator 3 is that Skynet was too prevalent to be stopped by humans- Ergo, an anti-skynet must be developed, and Weaver was sent because she could both develop John Henry AND lay waste to Skynet's offline support (humans).

    I'm not sure if she's "good" or what her objective is. But I did rethink whether the factory was hers or her competitors. After all, when John Henry played that transmission to her, she responded, "That WAS a mistake." The hasty evacuation they were attempting may have been in anticipation of that very outcome.

    I was sure, when I saw the scene where Cameron was apparently knocked out by electricity, that she was faking it to get information. Surely she's taken steps to prevent what happened before, and is now impervious to what John did to her in the season premier. She merely waited until the last moment to take the guy out, to find out what he knew.

    Overall, this was an excellent episode, and I especially love the new relationship between the disgraced Derek and vindicated Cameron.

    I, too, was wondering if Weaver was just handling a security breach in her own organization during the slaughter and demolition scene in episode 14. It seemed a trifle extreme but, as we all know, Terminators lack finesse. Now that there is evidence of another agency based around the Cyberdyne company it seems that she might have been wiping out the competition instead.

    Perhaps there is a schism in the Cyborg leadership which the future John Connor was trying to exploit by meeting with the emissary picked up by Jesse and the sub. Maybe the more advanced T-1000 liquid metal terminators feel much superior to the old nut-and-bolts T-800 variety and started a counter-revolution. The T-1000 cabal might have sent Weaver back into time to circumvent the old Cyberdyne Systems that created SkyNet and replace it with one more conducive to their own political will, hence the creation of John Henry.

    Doesn't anyone think it strange that Weaver seems to have no interest in tracking down Sarah and John even though her dealings with Ellison would prove that they are reasonably easy to find? As we know from the episode with Martin Bedell at the academy all terminators sent into the past have the young John Connor as a primary target and go into "Mission Priority Override" mode. Why not Weaver unless she, Sarah and John are all, for the moment at least, working towards the same ends.

    Me thinks much could come to light in the upcoming Terminator movie.

    Here are a few new observations I had about the latest episode: At the beginning, John can't get any reception on the car radio. Obviously, in hindsight, this is because the transmitter in Sarah's breast is interfering. A second one was Mr. Merch's statement, "You don't fool John Henry twice." This foreshadows Cameron's fake short circuit. You don't fool Cameron twice, either. Is John Henry Cameron's precursor? Third was Cameron's "You're welcome" to Derek. She was, in fact, continuing the conversation they were having when their car tire was shot out. Derek had just told her she did the right thing by telling him about Jesse's miscarriage, and then said, "Thank you." Then the tire goes, and it isn't until Cameron takes off the blindfold that she's free to continue.

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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [39]Apr 1, 2009
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    m00nshadow wrote:
    Here are a few new observations I had about the latest episode: At the beginning, John can't get any reception on the car radio. Obviously, in hindsight, this is because the transmitter in Sarah's breast is interfering. A second one was Mr. Merch's statement, "You don't fool John Henry twice." This foreshadows Cameron's fake short circuit. You don't fool Cameron twice, either. Is John Henry Cameron's precursor? Third was Cameron's "You're welcome" to Derek. She was, in fact, continuing the conversation they were having when their car tire was shot out. Derek had just told her she did the right thing by telling him about Jesse's miscarriage, and then said, "Thank you." Then the tire goes, and it isn't until Cameron takes off the blindfold that she's free to continue.

    Good call on the radio reception detail.

    Regarding "You don't fool John Henry twice", if we follow the obvious plot device that John Henry becomes SkyNet, then I guess technically he is Cameron's precursor AND progenitor.

    With respect to Cameron's "You're welcome," it's indeed a continuation of the conversation in the van, but also a little joke about the fact that Cameron just saved Derek's life and he didn't say thank you.

    One detail that bothers me a little is that Sarah felt the lump in her breast but otherwise had no clue whatsoever it had been implanted. If Ed Winston had indeed implanted the transmitter, did he have the (Star Trek) technology that allowed him to insert it without any visible incision or the SUDDEN lump she discovered (which would have been painful to the touch if it had been surgically inserted)??? I really don't think she was in that van long enough for the transmitter to be implanted and the incision to heal without any visible outer scar.

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  • Avatar of rayray_25

    rayray_25

    [40]Apr 1, 2009
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    oldsage wrote:

    m00nshadow wrote:
    Here are a few new observations I had about the latest episode: At the beginning, John can't get any reception on the car radio. Obviously, in hindsight, this is because the transmitter in Sarah's breast is interfering. A second one was Mr. Merch's statement, "You don't fool John Henry twice." This foreshadows Cameron's fake short circuit. You don't fool Cameron twice, either. Is John Henry Cameron's precursor? Third was Cameron's "You're welcome" to Derek. She was, in fact, continuing the conversation they were having when their car tire was shot out. Derek had just told her she did the right thing by telling him about Jesse's miscarriage, and then said, "Thank you." Then the tire goes, and it isn't until Cameron takes off the blindfold that she's free to continue.

    Good call on the radio reception detail.

    Regarding "You don't fool John Henry twice", if we follow the obvious plot device that John Henry becomes SkyNet, then I guess technically he is Cameron's precursor AND progenitor.

    With respect to Cameron's "You're welcome," it's indeed a continuation of the conversation in the van, but also a little joke about the fact that Cameron just saved Derek's life and he didn't say thank you.

    One detail that bothers me a little is that Sarah felt the lump in her breast but otherwise had no clue whatsoever it had been implanted. If Ed Winston had indeed implanted the transmitter, did he have the (Star Trek) technology that allowed him to insert it without any visible incision or the SUDDEN lump she discovered (which would have been painful to the touch if it had been surgically inserted)??? I really don't think she was in that van long enough for the transmitter to be implanted and the incision to heal without any visible outer scar.

    Well, maybe the transmitter was very, very small. I seem to remember that when Sarah realized it was a transmitter there was a brief flashback and it involved a needle. Maybe the bad guys have a transmitter tiny enough that it can be injected anywhere and does not necesitate surgery.

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